Feeling guilt and shame

[Genie202]

Hello,

 

First of all, thank you for reading this post. Please bear with me and I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

 

I have a friend called Ash (not his real name) who I met in college and who I have known for 10 years now. During that time we had always been just friends and kept in general contact with each other, he had had various girlfriends and I had had a boyfriend throughout the time we've known each other.

 

We now live in different parts of the country but still kept in contact on friendly terms. He has been in a relationship with his gf for roughly 5 years now. I had been single since 2015. In 2017 he started being very flirty with me via online messages and started suggesting sexual things towards me and generally giving me the "green light". At this time I had moved away from family friends etc to an new area for a job and was single and pretty depressed with life, my new job was stressful. I was lonely and had no other "interest" on the table at the time, and so, in the knowledge that he had a gf, I gave him the green light back. For over a year or so we "sexted" every so often via online messages a handful of times, at most, in between day to day friendly chat. Sometimes we would chat every day sometimes we would go a few weeks without contact.

 

We met for lunch once but nothing happened and we didn't discuss the "sexting" or anything sexual at all during our lunch. Via online message we had discussed meeting for sex a few times, but in the end we both couldn't go through with it, but we continued to sext every so often. Just to make it clear, nothing physical has ever happened between us. I never wanted a relationship with him, for me it was never emotional, it was purely because, I guess, I was craving attention. At the time I knew what we were doing was wrong. He told me his gf and him were having a rough time and he wasnt enjoying being with her, they weren't having sex, going through a rough patch and he had spoken about breaking up with her etc. But after a while it became clear he wanted to stay with her which didn't bother me, because, as I said I didn't want anything to develop. After a year or so I could feel that I wanted to put a stop to it as I felt the whole exercise was pointless and I knew that I couldn't go through with being physical with him and I didn't want anything to develop anyway.

 

I have been on and off tinder many times since around 2016.

 

Last year (2018) I "met" a man on the dating app, John, and we started to go on a few dates. At this point the last time I had "sexted" with Ash was about a month prior to me "matching" with and starting to talk to John on tinder. At first I wasn't entirely sure I wanted to proceed with dating John, but after the 3rd date I felt like I wanted to keep seeing him.

 

Even though no sexting had taken place between me and Ash for a while (since before I matched with John), I decided to tell bascially clear the air with Ash and tell him Ash I was now dating someone, I wanted to see where it would go, and I wanted to just bring a close to our "arrangement".

 

Ash was very understanding and accepted the position. He told me he had no hidden intentions and that it "wasn't serious anyway". Afterwards Ash and I kept in contact but since then I have been beginning to distance myself from him, as I don't really want contact with him anymore.

 

I continued to see John and a few weeks ago, after dating for about 3 months or so, we made our relationship "official".

 

I recently had a conversation with John about some of our past crushes, dates, general experiences, relationships etc. but I decided not to tell him about Ash as 1) pretty much nearly all of what happened with Ash had happened before I even knew John 2) I put a stop to the Ash thing after my 3rd date with John, and before I knew I wanted to proceed with John and 3) it's embarrassing and I feel guilty and ashamed about what I did due to Ash having a girlfriend and it's not something I am proud of or really want anyone to know about. Ash is now engaged to his gf.

 

I feel that if I tell John about the Ash thing he will think less of me, lose trust in me and end our relationship and I don't want that.

 

As we met on tinder, John was accepting of the idea that I may have been speaking with other men at the time we were dating, and he said that he actually thought he was just "one of many other men" I would be talking to (which I wasn't). I told him I wasn't speaking to any other men on tinder and I even showed him my tinder account messages (he didnt ask to see, i offered this information up to him as a way of showing him that i was open and honest).

 

I'm feeling very ashamed first of all for even sexting Ash knowing he has a gf, but second of all for not "coming clean" to John about it, even though it was all pretty much before he came on the scene. I feel like it reflects badly on me as a person, and I feel really terrible as a person. I now feel like i don't deserve happiness, and I need to let John know what kind of person I am. But, in saying that, I know deep down that I am a good and kind person and I always try to be honest as much as possible.

 

Originally after I had "cleared the air" with Ash, I forgot about it and just went on to enjoy spending time with John, and at first I was happy that I had done the right thing and didn't give the Ash thing a second thought. But this chat about previous experiences has just brought it all rushing back to me and now I'm wondering if I should bring it up with john and risk losing this great new exciting relationship I have with him. This chat about past experiences had kinda of activated a sort of "delayed reaction" to the guilt and shame from the fling with Ash.

 

Prior to all of this I had had one relationship with someone for 3 years and was always 100% faithful. I am disappointed in myself and its not the person I am.

 

If you were in this situation what would you do?

 

Thank you for reading.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I wouldn't say anything at all about this to John.

[BTDT2012]

If you feel guilty, ask God for forgiveness. If you truly feel you don't deserve happiness, seek counseling. I would say nothing to John about Ash.

[preraph]

No, you shouldn't bring it up with John! Are you Catholic or something? You don't have to confess things to whoever you're dating! That's your past business, and it was basically harmless since Ash waited until you were safely across the country so he didn't have to have any obligations and then started sexting.

 

Men don't want to hear that stuff. If you keep confessing to them, you're going to lose a lot of them just because they don't want to hear it and figure it's just the tip of the iceburg. Your past is your own business.

[Turning point]

I agree that you don't owe John an unfettered look into every detail of your past. You singled out this escapade for secrecy while disclosing the rest of your past which I think in your mid has made it even more significant.

 

I think your distress speaks to how you deal with your own shame rather than any standard John would hold you to. You said you weren't in a good place then, and as you look back you're ashamed of the whole experience.

 

How about a little bit of forgiveness here? If you had a daughter who came to you tormented with this same experience would you want her to keep punishing herself for past choices she now regrets?

 

If it would put you at ease to tell John then begin that confession by telling him what you told us here - that this is a part of your past that causes you a lot of shame, that you remain as uncomfortable admitting it to yourself as you do with him.

 

You're not lying to John. You're having some trouble being honest and forgiving with yourself.

 

This other guy sounds like more ass than Ash and I think he's kind of a predator. Let it go.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Turning point

[Genie202]

Thank you Turning Point. I have read your message about 5 times over now (having read it, then gone away, and then read it again etc. I've actually done this with all the posts) and I've had a good think about what you've said. If I had a daughter who came to me with the same issue and who had been tormenting herself about it, I would firstly tell her that I was disappointed in her for making such a decision, however, I would also advise her that she can't change what has been done and now she must learn from it and move on. Imagining having that conversation with my imaginary daughter was like having a conversation with myself, and I think it has helped.

 

I can't change what has happened, I can only learn from it and ensure I never do it again (and trust me, I will NOT be doing anything like that again, I have been well and truly burned, and it is me who is holding the matches) I am the one who is putting myself through this emotional hell and back and I am the one who is holding myself to a certain standard (and i only have myself to blame to be honest).

 

Having reflected upon matters, telling John may feel like it will put me at ease, but, generally, I think that telling John will do more harm than good here. I think it will change the dynamic of the relationship and change his feelings towards me, and since I know that I am a good and honest person and since I know I will not be doing anything like this ever again, I don't feel the need to share. I also do not wish to burden John with this negativity or burden, which is my own stuff to sort out. If I tell him, he will probably wish I had never said anything in the first place.

 

I think you're right, I think singling this particular escapade out from the "honesty box" has made it much worse in my mind.

 

I know that since i started to feel like I wanted to continue dating john/getting to know him more, I have always been faithful, because I put a close on the Ash thing before I started getting more serious with John. I think another reason I was feeling a bit distressed about not "coming clean" with John, was because I feel like it kind of overlapped with me meeting/seeing/starting to date John, which it didn't really, but the fact that these things are so "side by side" is a bit uncomfortable. If the Ash thing had come to a full close perhaps 6 months prior, I wouldn't feel so bad about it.

 

Thank you also to everyone who has posted, I really appreciate it.

Edited February 27, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact quote of prior post

[Turning point]

We put a lot of shame around sex in general, especially with respect to how we deal with our erotic side during the most stressful or lonely periods in our lives.

 

I see your shame and hesitation about Ash to be no different than any of us would feel about masturbation. Comparatively, I think they probably share the same parking spot in your head.

 

Cut yourself some slack. It sounds like a pretty normal self conscious reaction to have.

[DKT3]

There has been many discussions here surrounding this topic. On one hand you could not tell him move on and who knows have a wonderful relationship.

 

On the other hand you can be authentic and true to yourself and tell him. Maybe it will ruin your relationship maybe he will change his opinion of you.

 

But by disclosing honestly your history you are giving him an opportunity to fall in love with the real you, worts and all, instead of this carefully constructed view you want to present.

 

If he walks away then he isnt worth the effort.

 

Lying deceiving and misleading only creates more lying deceiving and misleading. You have nothing to be ashamed of, own your past it makes the future much brighter.

[Turning point]

@DTK3...

 

The caveat here - is that she hasn't actually deceived him. The issue she has is with herself - not anything she had promised to him.

 

Hypothetically, should John tell her that he's ashamed of his once periodic habit of looping the diner scene from When Harry Met Sally? The more authentic John is probably the guy who stopped doing that.

 

I suspect the more authentic version of OP is the one John currently knows.

Edited February 27, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact quote of prior post

[DKT3]

Deception by omission.

 

How do you separate who you were a few weeks, months or even years ago from who you are now? It's all the same person. We are our experiences.

[Marc878]

Under these circumstances I think I'd let this sleeping dog lie.

[TooBad]

Leave things as they are. You're about the most normal person I've come across around here.

[Genie202]

Thank you TooBad, that makes me feel a bit more positive.

 

Thank you also to everyone for replying.

Edited February 27, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact quote of prior post

[Turning point]

Deception by omission.

 

How do you separate who you were a few weeks, months or even years ago from who you are now? It's all the same person. We are our experiences.

 

I think your personal concept of authenticity may be flawed, especially at the edges where people come together. Authenticity only exists where there are boundaries, and here the OP has agency. It is that agency that makes her authentic.

 

When you get right down to it, sexting of this type is not significantly different than being drawn in as one person's personal pornographer. Ash is for the most part a predator on this issue, and that is likely from where the OP's shame developed. We can still feel victimized even when we volunteer.

 

We don't owe anyone a certified lifetime version of ourselves at the onset of any relationship. To have agency is to have personal boundaries.

[DKT3]

If you withhold information that could alter, change or ruin someone's desire to want to be in a relationship with you then your are not being authentic. I dont believe it's a matter of personal preference. Her boyfriend may not be interested in a woman who would engage a man in a committed relationship, isnt that his choice and not hers? Taking that choice is not living authentically.

[Turning point]

If you withhold information that could alter, change or ruin someone's desire to want to be in a relationship with you then your are not being authentic.

 

You are trying to interchange guilt for shame. Authenticity is not a historical index or a litmus test.

 

The OP can hold her own shame and bare no guilt at the same time, because they are not coincident.

[DKT3]

No, I'm actually not. I'm not talking shame or guilt. What she did prior to her relationship with him should not bring her shame or guilt as far as that relationship goes, she doesn't owe him her past. What I'm saying is her involvement with a committed man could alter his interest in having a relationship with her. She recognizes this and omitted the information. That is dishonest and inauthentic nothing to do with shame vs guilt.

[Turning point]

What I'm saying is her involvement with a committed man could alter his interest in having a relationship with her. She recognizes this and omitted the information. That is dishonest and inauthentic nothing to do with shame vs guilt.

 

You're talking in circles and obfuscating because your supposition about "feeling shame = dishonest" is just personal religious dogma.

 

You can't have it both ways and claim it's an omission while admitting it's out of bounds. Neither is there any authenticity in a word like: "should."

 

We can't claim that she "recognizes" anything. It's just a fear and very likely an irrational one. Our self talk distorts our perceptions, and blurs our boundaries. Poorly constructed moral imperatives only exacerbate the problem.

[Wallysbears]

You didn't lie to or cheat on John. You have nothing to "confess" to him. He has zero right to know (or expect to know) every person you've ever spoken to or dated.

[DKT3]

Yeah, in Utopia maybe. But here in the real world when you past has 5he ability to impact the future then its information that needs to be shared.

 

She didn't betray her boyfriend or do anything to me so she should have no shame or guilt. The fact that she way involved with a committed man speaks to her character and its something that should be share.

 

When I was a teenager I lived in the grey area of the law. This was information that I didn't need to share with my girlfriend (now wife) but I did. Even as a teenager I recognized it was something that she deserved to know. Why adults fail to understand this is beyond me. If you want to create a truly healthy open and loving relationship it cant be done by omitting and misleading someone about who you are.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Since you've processed what you did with Ash and changed (in that you are ashamed of it and no longer choose to live that way) IMO John knows your authentic self, a woman who wouldn't cheat.

 

I also think you shouldn't mention your past with Ash to John.

[lolita888]

I do not think that there is a need for you to tell him about it. I mean it happened long before you met John and I am pretty sure that John also had some other relationships before you and did other things that he may not be able to tell you.

Just think of it as you watching a porn or talking to a cam model.

[Turning point]

The fact that she way involved with a committed man speaks to her character and its something that should be share.

 

It speaks to ONE choice - not her character. Your personal history and black and white thinking doesn't justify pasting all these labels on people.

[oldtruck]

You stopped sexting Ash before you dated John. After your 3rd

date with John you went NC with Ash. There is no need to tell

John about past boyfriends.

 

A persons past is their past, to avoid problems in a new relationship

and prevent retro active jealousy there is generally no need to share.

 

Before committing if asked were you seeing others while seeing me.

 

Before committing if asked were you having sex with other people.

 

Also before having contact with sexual fluids that you both go to the

Dr's and get tested to make sure you both are free of STD's.

[DKT3]

It speaks to ONE choice - not her character. Your personal history and black and white thinking doesn't justify pasting all these labels on people.

 

It wasn't one choice, it was continuous choices. Our choices in life define who we are as people. I'm not saying you cant learn from bad choices and not repeat them, what I'm saying is you cant delete them and act as if they didn't happen. I haven't labeled op as anything, I simply stating that if she wants a genuine connection with the guy she needs to start with an honest foundation.