pianodad Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding mesher orders. Me and my wife are currently going through a divorce. So far things are amicable and we both want to do what is right for the children. We would both like the children to stay in their current home. Our 2 children are 5 and 8. We have around £200k in equity in the house and owe around £190k on the mortgage. The challenge is that up until now, I provide everything financially for my wife (she doesn't work). Even if she were to work, she wouldn't earn enough to take on the mortgage in her sole name. So, this raises a few questions: I could pay 50% of the mortgage and keep the mortgage in my name. However, this would make it very difficult to get a second mortgage and would tie me to the current mortgage for the next 13 years. This seems a little unfair considering the amount of equity in the house. The second option is to pay 50% of the mortgage as spousal maintenance and then agree to transfer the mortgage to her name. If at that time, she is unable to take on the mortgage in her sole name, we would have to sell the property instead. Paying 50% of the mortgage and child maintenance costs would be around £1000 per month. Is it fair to push for a greater equity share if I'm paying into the mortgage for the next 13 years? Are the courts likely to have an expectation that I keep the mortgage in my name and continue to pay half of it (this is the only way we can support the mortgage)? Or am I being taken for a ride? Any thoughts welcome! Link to post Share on other sites
oldtruck Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding mesher orders. Me and my wife are currently going through a divorce. So far things are amicable and we both want to do what is right for the children. We would both like the children to stay in their current home. Our 2 children are 5 and 8. We have around £200k in equity in the house and owe around £190k on the mortgage. The challenge is that up until now, I provide everything financially for my wife (she doesn't work). Even if she were to work, she wouldn't earn enough to take on the mortgage in her sole name. So, this raises a few questions: I could pay 50% of the mortgage and keep the mortgage in my name. However, this would make it very difficult to get a second mortgage and would tie me to the current mortgage for the next 13 years. This seems a little unfair considering the amount of equity in the house. The second option is to pay 50% of the mortgage as spousal maintenance and then agree to transfer the mortgage to her name. If at that time, she is unable to take on the mortgage in her sole name, we would have to sell the property instead. Paying 50% of the mortgage and child maintenance costs would be around £1000 per month. Is it fair to push for a greater equity share if I'm paying into the mortgage for the next 13 years? Are the courts likely to have an expectation that I keep the mortgage in my name and continue to pay half of it (this is the only way we can support the mortgage)? Or am I being taken for a ride? Any thoughts welcome! Not only are we divided by a common language our laws are similar but not the same. You need the advice of a solicitor/lawyer. As Eddie Cantor/Jack Hylton use to sing: Makin' Whoopee Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Lemming Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Are you allowed to sell the house?? If so, that is the way I would go, split the proceeds. Each of you get your own apartment or smaller home, & you pay the appropriate child support for your children. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 The second option is to pay 50% of the mortgage as spousal maintenance and then agree to transfer the mortgage to her name. If at that time, she is unable to take on the mortgage in her sole name, we would have to sell the property instead. Not familiar with UK lending practices, but wouldn't this have the same effect on your ability to qualify for a mortgage on your own place you cited above? Unless you mean transferring the mortgage to her now which, given her employment situation, I doubt most banks would allow. I agree with HL, sell the asset and divide the proceeds, calculate your responsibilities from there... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 "Amicable" doesn't mean leaving your financial future vulnerable to a default by the other party. You have to resolve both the break-up and the split of assets in a way that will separate your financial liabilities as well. Link to post Share on other sites
chryssy83 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 If you aren’t able to stay married why would you want to own a house together? It’s just a house, she can find another place to live. You can give her assets and/or spousal support in an effort to make up for the fact that her income isn’t enough to pay for housing without it, but I’m betting that you both need to accept that the divorce is going to result in a substantial change to both of your standards of living. But yeah I definitely wouldn’t want a mortgage for 13 years with someone I wasn’t married to because the marriage didn’t work. Talk to an attorney but ask about selling the house and what would happen from there. Link to post Share on other sites
Caauug Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 A lawyer and a tax accountant. I say tax accountant as years from now when the house is sold will you be up for capital gains tax if it is not your principle residence? That is where I am with my house in Canada for the years I have not lived in it, and CGT is 50% for me. Could you transfer house into a trust maybe in the kids' names? Are there any unforseen issues with that? Are you willing to pay for a house where the ex's new BF will be living? She will find someone..... Say he sticks around for the common law period or they marry for a few years then separate. Can he then claim on her half? (even 1/4 of the increase in value while they were together?) Are you willing to pay him out for your ex and kids to keep a house? Or you marry again and the same happens to you again, can your #2 ex claim on the house? KISS applies here. Keep It Simple Stupid. You are getting a divorce the marriage is over. Get rid of the dream of the house. Loose any gilt you have. Work out the monthly child support payments with her. 13years is a long time. A lot will happen with her, you and your children. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Mesher orders were all the rage a couple of decades ago. Now they are out of favour because the man gets screwed over so often. Not necessarily deliberately, but the end result is the same: man ends up renting some crappy place because he can't get a 2nd mortgage and woman can't (or won't) move the mortgage to her name, or sell. The laws are gender-neutral of course but it usually works out that way around. These days there is a preference for each party being independent, with the shortfall being made up by spousal maintenance rather than Mesher orders or shared ownership. Having said that, there are situations where Mesher orders are still the best solution in the circumstances but you really should explore all options first. The way you phrase things, seems like it's your joint goal to have the kids stay in the house, and the adults needs come second. How about you stay in the house that you can afford with the kids, and your wife gets a job and moves out? I would suggest that if I were you. If nothing else it would reveal whether the kids welfare is truly her priority, or her true colours. I suspect she will baulk wildly but be unable to provide any actual logical reasons why it's a bad idea... You should DEFINITELY see a lawyer before entering into any kind of agreement like this! It would be incredibly foolish not to get professional advice about the long-term consequences. But here's my amateur thoughts on your suggestions... I could pay 50% of the mortgage and keep the mortgage in my name. However, this would make it very difficult to get a second mortgage and would tie me to the current mortgage for the next 13 years. This seems a little unfair considering the amount of equity in the house. Where would your wife get the other 50% of the mortgage from? What would happen if she didn't (or couldn't) pay? If it's in joint names then you're jointly and severally responsible, which means the bank can choose which of you to take to court regardless of your divorce decree. If you're the only one in employment you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be you. Yes, getting a 2nd mortgage would be almost impossible and you'd basically be renting for the foreseeable future. As for your share of the equity, the only way to release that in the short term would be to either sell or increase the existing mortgage. So basically you can't have any. You should push for as much as possible of any other savings to make up for this. If you do go down this route make sure your court order wraps up all loose ends. The last thing you want is to pay the mortgage for 13 years, and then your ex-wife to say you haven't given her any spousal maintenance and owe 13 years of back support. Make sure to cover all bases. Things might be amicable now but they can very much change in 13 years. The second option is to pay 50% of the mortgage as spousal maintenance and then agree to transfer the mortgage to her name. If at that time, she is unable to take on the mortgage in her sole name, we would have to sell the property instead. You should think very carefully before doing anything like this!! The court order will say your ex-wife must make her best effort to move the mortgage into her name, which is incredibly difficult to enforce. When you say "we would have to sell" that doesn't take into account your ex-wife's motivations: what if she doesn't want to? A lot can change in 13 years. Maybe she will have a new ex-partner and 2 more young kids. Even if your court order says she must sell, that would be incredibly difficult to enforce if it would effectively be making her and 4 kids homeless. And why would she want to sell if she's sitting pretty in a nice house with no mortgage? Is it fair to push for a greater equity share if I'm paying into the mortgage for the next 13 years? At the end of a Mesher you will be entitled to whatever share your court order states, regardless of who paid what in the meantime. Usually that is 50% since at that time you are both considered free of dependants -- unless of course, she has more kids with someone else... in which case you'll be thrown under the bus. Edited March 4, 2019 by PegNosePete Link to post Share on other sites
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