Do women who are very successful have difficulty dating

[thefooloftheyear]

That’s exactly the type of situation I asked the OP about earlier in the thread. When the man is the one making a lot more, he would just cover for the woman’s expenses. But when the woman is making a lot more, either she wouldn’t be willing to cover for the guy or the guy would feel odd (or both).

 

 

With a lot of women, what's hers is hers and what's his is theirs...It's as simple as that sometimes..

 

TFY

[JuneL]

I made substantially more money than my last gf and I didn't mind picking up the tab the majority of the time. She paid for what she could but I understood that money was tight for her.

 

I suspect that’s what exactly why the teacher told the OP he can’t keep up with her. And that why I asked the OP if she’s willing to adjust down her lifestyle in such a situation.

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[OatsAndHall]

In my situation, I would have liked it if she was willing to tone it back a bit but that was the lifestyle that she was accustomed to. The weekend before our first date, she flew down to Vegas with a friend on a whim to catch Cirque De Soleil. She literally planned it two days ahead of time and went. That just isn't something that I can afford and I wouldn't ask her to change her lifestyle to accommodate the fact that I'm broke. Lol.. She was in her late thirties, never married and that was her life.

 

We generally enjoyed each other's company but I could tell she was a bit let down when I couldn't join her for the spa weekend. And, she knew that going out to a restaurant where a glass of wine costs more than a meal at other places was completely alien to me. She's an attractive, successful woman with money and we both knew that there was a better fit for her. I would've been thrilled if she had offered to tone things down but that wasn't in the cards.

Edited April 14, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

That’s exactly the type of situation I asked the OP about earlier in the thread. When the man is the one making a lot more, he would just cover for the woman’s expenses. But when the woman is making a lot more, either she wouldn’t be willing to cover for the guy or the guy would feel odd (or both).

 

Hi June

 

I’d be happy covering holidays and nice gifts but I wouldn’t be up for subsidising a man’s whole life. I’d also be happy to do activities affordable for both parties.

[mark clemson]

Frugality becomes for some a lifestyle/philosophy more than a true economic need. As does eating at sushi places and dropping a few K on a spur-of-the-moment weekend trip regularly.

 

PLB, it sounds like that particular aspect wouldn't be an issue for you as it would be for some, which is helpful. Many men, though, may believe being a provider is expected from them at some level.

 

Goes back to the right guy for you being someone who doesn't think this way IMO. Not a rare unicorn or anything, but someone who is self-aware enough to see past social norms and expectations or an outside the box thinker. Or, as discussed, a doctor-lawyer-dentist type who wants more of an equal and doesn't mind your kid.

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

Frugality becomes for some a lifestyle/philosophy more than a true economic need. As does eating at sushi places and dropping a few K on a spur-of-the-moment weekend trip regularly.

 

Mark I think you’re right about many men liking to feel like providers. Mostly the doctor/dentist/lawyer types are looking for younger women. The self aware men you speak of are kind of unicorns!!

 

My foster son is part of my package, and will be in my life and heart forever, although he may not always live with me. His bio family are going through some programs/therapy/trainings to try to re-integrate the children back into the home at some point with a lot of support. However I will always be mom #2 to this young man as long as I’m alive. I love him as my own.

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[OatsAndHall]

Hi June , I’d be happy covering holidays and nice gifts but I wouldn’t be up for subsidising a man’s whole life. I’d also be happy to do activities affordable for both parties.

I do think it's necessary to draw a line when it comes to a young relationship. Before I met my ex-gf, I had made plans to go back to my hometown over Christmas Break, stay with my mother and spend time with family and friends that were coming into town. I had not intention spending a great deal of money on this little trip: the gas down, the gas back, a few meals, a movie, etc..

 

My ex-gf wanted to come with me but my mother doesn't do "visitors" (long story). I explained this to my ex-gf and asked that she put away some money so that we could share the costs of the trip as we were now going to have to get a hotel room for five nights and we were going to be eating out a whole lot more.

 

Her financial situation was tight and she couldn't come up with any money. I wanted her to come with me but doing so would have meant dipping deep into my savings; I was looking at spending over a grand between the hotel room, meals, gas, entertainment, etc.. This wasn't something that I was willing to do when I had only been dating someone for a few months. So, I went down without her. I cut the trip short so that I could come back and spend New Years Eve and Day with her.

 

I would have been kosher if she could have covered a quarter-third of the costs but she couldn't. It upset her (rightfully so) and we had a heated discussion about it but I simply couldn't justify using my substantial portion of my savings to cover the entire cost of the trip. A trip that I had planned before we met and meant to keep is inexpensive as possible.

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

I understand what you are explaining Oates.

 

In my situation it’s a bit different, I would have been able to cover the Christmas trip, but as you say early in the relationship things can be awkward.

[mark clemson]

Hi, PLB -

 

You've mentioned that about the D/L/D types before and I think it's true/relatively common. There will be exceptions too, though. Not sure about unicorns - I don't think self aware guys are actually that rare, but possibly they are a bit less likely to end up single. Why give one up if you've got one?

 

Of course your foster son will always be special. I certainly hope he's always part of your life! I think the key is to keep at it/play a numbers game until you hit one of these guys who's right for you. "Settling" for a socioeconomic peer who is into you, if you should happen across one, should also remain an open option I would think.

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[What_Did_I_Do]

I've learned to downplay my career status in the early dating stages, unfortunately. I try to avoid the job conversation for the most part but the fellows keep pushing for details, then they almost (not all, but many) visibly close off when I share what I do. It's almost like they're silently doing the salary calculation and comparison right then and there. Or maybe they're just not feeling the 'click' LOL.

 

Onwards and upwards

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

I've learned to downplay my career status in the early dating stages, unfortunately.

 

I understand why you do that as a tactic but I earned my position and if someone asks me, whilst I won’t brag about it I sure wouldn’t minimise or downplay my role or career accomplishments.

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stillafool]

I've learned to downplay my career status in the early dating stages, unfortunately.

 

You've worked hard for your status and shouldn't downplay it for anyone much less to get a man. He will find out anyway so what's the point. Why not just date men who are on the same level as you career wise?

Edited April 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[chillii]

Couple of things.

But funny, l downplay my mind and perception, had to at first or it's too much.

But on this matter , hope l didn't already mention it in this thread, but l have a very wealthy mate that hides everything, says he had too,

Dresses down drives down won't take someone new back to his main place.

Apparently it's always been a huge issue for him. He was married for years but he's ex was wealthy too so it didn't matter. So he's only been out there again 2yrs.

Says until he meets the right one that's the way it's gotta be.

Last l heard he chatted up some woman in a mall and it's been going really well.

Just sayin , make of it what you do,

[salparadise]

I understand why you do that as a tactic but I earned my position and if someone asks me, whilst I won’t brag about it I sure wouldn’t minimise or downplay my role or career accomplishments.

 

This is an attitude that I like a lot... that status-hierarchy isn't a thing. You can relate to someone as an equal by not buying into title or salary as a ranking system. It's a rejection of the way our social structure works generally. No arrogance, no judgement... humility and empathy. I'd love to find a woman like that.

[JuneL]

This is an attitude that I like a lot... that status-hierarchy isn't a thing. You can relate to someone as an equal by not buying into title or salary as a ranking system. It's a rejection of the way our social structure works generally. No arrogance, no judgement... humility and empathy. I'd love to find a woman like that.

 

In case you’re with a woman who makes a lot more, how do you handle the practical financial issue we discussed above? She’s probably used to a certain lifestyle that is out of your usual budget. Would you be okay if she pays for your luxury vacation with her?

[snowcones]

I'm not wealthy but I do well for myself and have worked hard for what I have accumulated and it's just enough for me. I have no problem dating a man who makes less money than me, but he has to be on track with his retirement savings and have enough to take care of his own long-term care needs. This knocks many men out of the running.

[thefooloftheyear]

Women(not all, but many) have been conditioned over the years that "what's his is ours, and what's mine is mine". when it comes down to money....Not trying to create a debate, guys just have always done more and paid more, IME, even when the pay is pretty equal..It would be seen as "unmanly" to do otherwise..

 

I also find it odd that many middle aged(and even older) women think that a guy that's spent basically the best years of his life carrying people, now has to continue to do so with a woman that will never be a mother to his kids or build a family legacy with...It's nuts...

 

The bottom line is at this point in the game, it should be "what's yours is yours and whats mine is mine"...Why anyone would look to keep score or any guy not take an offer without feeling guilty of any generosity with regard to vacations and such is just silly, IMO..

 

TFY

Edited May 3, 2019 by thefooloftheyear

[Trail Blazer]

In my experience, yes. I married a successfull woman who was also much older than me. It didn't end well. We both got with each other for the wrong reasons. We both suffered the consequences for our poor decisions.

 

So, lessons learnt here. We've been separated 18 months. I'm older, wiser and more mature. My career is racing ahead now that I don't have the pressure to "keep up."

 

I would proceed with extreme caution when dating another highly successful career woman. It's not so much that I feel threatened or even emasculated. I've just been burnt by the realities that are their expectations.

[snowcones]

Women(not all, but many) have been conditioned over the years that "what's his is ours, and what's mine is mine". when it comes down to money....Not trying to create a debate, guys just have always done more and paid more, IME, even when the pay is pretty equal..It would be seen as "unmanly" to do otherwise..

 

I also find it odd that many middle aged(and even older) women think that a guy that's spent basically the best years of his life carrying people, now has to continue to do so with a woman that will never be a mother to his kids or build a family legacy with...It's nuts...

 

The bottom line is at this point in the game, it should be "what's yours is yours and whats mine is mine"...Why anyone would look to keep score or any guy not take an offer without feeling guilty of any generosity with regard to vacations and such is just silly, IMO..

 

TFY

 

 

I don't need a man to take care of me. I take care of myself. I just need a man who can take care of himself as well (which includes in retirement). I would gladly take care of a man if I had it but I DON'T. I'm not wealthy like that, I only have enough to take care of myself. Literally.

[snowcones]

I've just been burnt by the realities that are their expectations.

 

 

What are those? I'm not a wealthy woman but I'm just curious to hear from someone who's actually experienced it.

[Veronica73]

I don't need a man to take care of me.

 

That’s kind of how I am too. I have enough to take care of myself. And that’s it. I don’t have enough retirement savings to take care of anyone else in addition. Although if I was rich, I’d want the guy to at least be able to take care of himself at his income level. If I wanted to go on fancy vacations or live in a fancier house than he could afford, I’d be perfectly happy to pay the additional costs to live up to my preferences. But I can’t say that I would be happy taking care of him completely, unless something happened and he was unable to earn an income.

Edited May 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[snowcones]

But I can’t say that I would be happy taking care of him completely, unless something happened and he was unable to earn an income.

 

You mean like if he was lazy, didn't want to work and was not even a stay-at-home dad?

 

I think it's easy for both wealthy men and women to get duped into being with someone like this. The person they are dating is working when they first meet and appears to be a hard worker. Then soon after they get married, the person quits working, with tons of excuses in tow, after they see that they can live off of the other person without working.

 

It would be easy to spot someone who wasn't able to take care of themselves before you ever got married.

Edited May 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Veronica73]

You mean like if he was lazy, didn't want to work and was not even a stay-at-home dad?

 

Yes. I meant that if something happened to the person, like illness or accident, AFTER getting married that prevented them from pulling their own weight.

Edited May 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[OatsAndHall]

Yes. I meant that if something happened to the person, like illness or accident, AFTER getting married that prevented them from pulling their own weight.

 

 

I can attest to this creating issues. My ex-wife has MS and I accepted this fact before we even started dating. Her disease was on full swing when we met and I saw the worst of it early on as she was eventually prescribed medications that put down the symptoms.

 

 

 

But, the MS, coupled with our differing views on how to handle finances, created an enormous amount of stress within the marriage. I'm not a tight-wad but I live frugally and save and invest money. She had basically been living paycheck-paycheck her whole life basically considered any money left over after paying the bills to be disposable income.

 

 

 

Needless to say that attitude and medical bills don't mesh well together.

[Trail Blazer]

What are those? I'm not a wealthy woman but I'm just curious to hear from someone who's actually experienced it.

It's my opinion, but I just do not think that any woman can truly respect a man who earns a lot less than she does. In my case, when we had kids, I stayed home as she was earning the big dollars. Since she had 2 kids as well, she had strong opinions on everything and constantly scrutinized everything I did (or didn't) do.

 

It was a combination of her personality (being controlling), but also I think the kind of woman who had achieved what she did in a male-dominated environment is one who is jmmune to stomping on people and talking very abrasively. I was treated like one of the plebs working under her. She clearly didn't trust me and let me do my thing. She would always 'check in" on things and made me feel like she was my superior who I had to report back to.

 

Of course, if you asked her then she'd give a very different account. But, as my mom used to say about her, "unless every task is executed with military like precision, it just wasn't good enough." My ex admitted she was uncompromising and had high standards. She would always say, "I don't expect any more from you than I would from myself" as though we're all robots programmed to perform the exact same function.

 

What I found interesting was that, because she was so used to competing with males, she brought that attitude to the marriage. We couldn't work as a team, because she'd be too busy tallying up arbitrarily defined criteria for measuring "outputs" in the relationship. Her way of basically criticizing me if I wasn't keeping up to her expectations. She wouldn't like it if I ever "beat" her at anything, though. It was a very fine line between being good enough to escape scruitiny, but not too good as to seem like I was competing and getting her nose out of joint in the process.

 

In the end, I lasted a year and couldn't handle being a stay at home dad, especially when doing that sort of dynamic was heavily compromised by being the step dad as well. If I tried to show initiative with her kids, I'd be stepping on her toes and being out of line. If I waited on her instruction, and anything went pear shaped in the process of waiting, then I was to blame for not being proactive and needing "the instruction manual of life."

 

After I went back to work, I had a lot of presssure put on me to acheive and get promoted. It was as if I had to justify and "make it worth it" now that we both assumed equal responsibility managing our 2 kids day care and school drop-offs.

 

This is going back a decade ago now, so at the time when I first went back to work, the plans I'd made to move forward quicker were looking to pay off, until the Global Financial Crisis. The industry I worked in was heavily affected, so it meant that getting a promotion was not going to happen. Just retaining a job could be considered doing very well.

 

Of course, my ex working in a secure government role was immune to the affects of the financial crisis and let me know about it all the time, i.e. how much better her decisions for career choices were over mine.

 

The kicker came, though, when my ex, who was highly controlling with money and also LOVED to spend, overcomitted based on my projected financial path just before the financial crisis. She held me directly responsible and said that "all your talking about these opportunities created a detrimental reliance upon you." Hey, it's not as if I told her to go and buy all the stuff, send her kids to one of the most expansive private schools in Portland and everything else.

 

The house of cards finally came down when neither of us could afford to take leave without pay when having to look after our sick daughter. She continually caught bugs at day care and my ex wife, having to take time out from her job and losing money and stressing over the financial situation and her job which she was falling behind in major projects, became sick herself. She'd gotten herself into a pretty unhealthy state (put on a lot of weight after our 2 kids) because of a very poor work/life balance. She had a mild heart attack and her career tumbled. She eventually left after being demoted.

 

The beginning of the end started when she was the stay at home mom. The financial pressure all fell on me. We lost our house, I was supporting 4 kids and a wife on a basic living wage. I was constantly hammered to 'step up for your family" while she toiled away trying to build up a business at home. Of course, it was my fault that without the funds to invest in her business, once again it were I who was holding her back.

 

We lasted a few more years in total mysery before she made the call to separate late 2017.

 

Fast forward 18 month and I'm about to embark on an amazing new career in a similar field to that which I had sought to work in 10 years ago. Without the weight of being married to someone so demanding, I could let my career grow organically. To be fair on her, she has the kids most of the time so the pressure has been off and has allowed me the freedom to achieve what I now have.