S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 She has boldly stated you need to divorce her. Tell her you will grant her that wish. She’s literally left you nothing to work with... so the health of the marriage has failed - due to the way she won’t participate. I’d approach her immediately - and calmly state that she will get the divorce she wants... and explain that you deserve better - a wife that openly communicates any issues with her husband and happily participated in all aspects of the marriage. You’re not getting your needs met. She’s not willing to consider your feelings and she won’t communicate about it all. She’s left you nothing to work with. Give her the news. She got what she wants. Try to approach the divorce as fairly as is reasonable - until you find out who she’s cheating with - then go for more than your half. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 But this sounds like the previous conversations you had before you started posting, have you had any more recent ones? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 She has behaved so dreadfully that it would take a lot to rebuild my trust. She might have behaved dreadfully, but you have allowed her to behave like that. Without complaining for 18 months, you have given her the impression you were ok with it. You told her that she is more important than sex. It's too late now. Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I think you need to stay married, unless she’s the one to initiate the divorce. It’s very late in the game to start over and you’re likely to not handle things well, and not likely to thrive in the aftermath. But you need to get the idea out of your head that something other than sexual intercourse from your wife would suffice. Accept that any and all activities that “satisfies” you is a major turn-off to her, so what you’re wanting is off the table. As a matter of fact, it would serve you well to act as though sex completely disinterests you. Not to play games with her but, if she truly means it that she wants nothing to do with sex, then your desire for it is just one more rift between you. And, btw, most people don’t WANT to divorce. Most people try to avoid it at all costs and it fully breaks their hearts. The end of a marriage is the end of a dream - for both parties. So, when you emphasize over and over about how much you don’t want to divorce, don’t think you’re the Lone Ranger. It really annoys me when people talk that way; as though they’re different and above all the other suckers out there who obviously did want to divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 But this sounds like the previous conversations you had before you started posting, have you had any more recent ones?Sort of but not really. i could make one final push. I could tell her I'm gravely concerned about the state of our marriage but I'm willing to make one final attempt at restoration before I retain counsel. Restoration would mean marriage and/or individual counseling for her; mandatory me-time for her; mandatory time spent as a couple once a month; some sort of plan for addressing each of our sexual needs instead of ignoring them; regular time for one-on-one discussion without excessive triggering, crying, or anger; recognition of her past destructive behavior and a full apology. But what's the use? She will not consent to any of these. She's made it clear she wants/expects me to be happy with the status quo and if I don't like it I should walk. I'm reading the The Divorce Remedy: Seven Simple Step to Save Your Marriage by Michelle Weiner Davis. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 And, btw, most people don’t WANT to divorce. Most people try to avoid it at all costs and it fully breaks their hearts. The end of a marriage is the end of a dream - for both parties. So, when you emphasize over and over about how much you don’t want to divorce, don’t think you’re the Lone Ranger. It really annoys me when people talk that way; as though they’re different and above all the other suckers out there who obviously did want to divorce. Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so but she probably thinks that makes her a bad person (it doesn’t). She probably feels guilty, how could she do that to poor ol' Rotaglia (BTW, that's not my real name, LOL), etc. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so or She's made it clear she wants/expects me to be happy with the status quo and if I don't like it I should walk. Which one is it? She wants a divorce or she is happy with the status quo? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Restoration would mean marriage and/or individual counseling for her; mandatory me-time for her; mandatory time spent as a couple once a month; some sort of plan for addressing each of our sexual needs instead of ignoring them; regular time for one-on-one discussion without excessive triggering, crying, or anger; recognition of her past destructive behavior and a full apology? You are not asking for much... Seriously, if these are your expectations, given the current state of your marriage it’s probably fair to say that you are likely to be very disappointed. It goes without saying, but you are not going to get far if you start placing demands and tell her what she’s should do. Where in this discussion do you ask her how she feels, and what she wants, and what you could do to improve the situation... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so but she probably thinks that makes her a bad person (it doesn’t). She probably feels guilty, how could she do that to poor ol' Rotaglia (BTW, that's not my real name, LOL), etc. No. If she wanted a divorce, your lawyer would be talking to her lawyer. Anyway, you completely missed my point. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 You are not asking for much... ... you are not going to get far if you start placing demands and tell her what she’s should do. Rotaglia, you are coming from a place of weakness here. You cannot demand anything really. You demand sex, she says no. You demand an apology, she says no. You demand she sees a counsellor she says no. (Why would she? She is not the one with the problem...) You say you are going to walk, she says fine... She has something you want, and she isn't willing to give it. She, along with the fact she is the main breadwinner, holds most of the cards. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 She might have behaved dreadfully, but you have allowed her to behave like that.You keep saying that like "to allow" is actual marital verb. I did nothing to "allow" anything. She unilaterally terminated our sex life and then put up an invisible-but-very-real wall against discussing it. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Do not approach her with your list of demands. Jeez, man! You're putting the cart before the horse. Just insist on marriage counseling. Period. Tell her that refusal to go signifies that she has chosen to end the marriage. Then let her choose and follow through with her choice -- go see either a lawyer o a MC. There is nothing left for you to do. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 I think it's up to me to repair this marriage by myself if necessary. I think my wife would like to fix it too but she is too tired/overworked to put in the energy now so I think since I'm the one who is more engaged with the mend-it-don't-end-it effort I will undertake a project of self-improvement as a way of either 1) strengthening our marriage or 2) strengthening myself for life post-divorce if ultimately necessary. MIchelle Weiner Davis writes a lot about improving oneself in her book The Divorce Remedy and I intend to follow her plan. I would be fully justified in seeing an attorney and filing for divorce but just because it is justified does not mean it's the right thing for me, for our daughter, and ultimately for the two of us. In some ways, becoming a better person is harder than ending a marriage, but I think it's the wiser course. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Sort of but not really. i could make one final push. I could tell her I'm gravely concerned about the state of our marriage but I'm willing to make one final attempt at restoration before I retain counsel. Restoration would mean marriage and/or individual counseling for her; mandatory me-time for her; mandatory time spent as a couple once a month; some sort of plan for addressing each of our sexual needs instead of ignoring them; regular time for one-on-one discussion without excessive triggering, crying, or anger; recognition of her past destructive behavior and a full apology. But what's the use? She will not consent to any of these. She's made it clear she wants/expects me to be happy with the status quo and if I don't like it I should walk. I'm reading the The Divorce Remedy: Seven Simple Step to Save Your Marriage by Michelle Weiner Davis. And you don’t like it - so walk. You can’t fix a marriage by yourself - that’s not possible. You seriously want/need something from her that she is adamantly opposed to giving you - so don’t disrespect her by trying to get that. Just divorce her knowing she’s not giving you any sex anymore. Edited March 22, 2019 by S2B Link to post Share on other sites
zouz71 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 From my personnel experience : The more you talk about intimacy the less you get U loose her respect and become a doormat in two cases Abusing her is one and the other one being a coward . These are golden rules 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 From my personnel experience : The more you talk about intimacy the less you get U loose her respect and become a doormat in two cases Abusing her is one and the other one being a coward . These are golden rules Too late. He’s already been her doormat and she doesn’t respect him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
zouz71 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 He has to flip the table Nash , You leave the house and let her fit in her place as a mother , she should take her responsibility , Then. After that you say what you want from her , be it a divorce or agreed separation , first insist on brining her back to her home , if she is a good mother she won't refuse , if she he has other plans it will be obvious , imo don't discuss it , enforce it ,don't speak , pack and leave , u say your mil is 2miles away they will take care of kids , Don't be coward just do it , stay anywhere else and request to visit ur kids If you have a basement it is a piece of cake , 1 Link to post Share on other sites
zouz71 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 The normal place of a woman is her home with her kids , when she leaves and offload house to man , roles are reversed Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 The normal place of a woman is her home with her kids , when she leaves and offload house to man , roles are reversed Normal place for a woman? Really? Any man or woman knows they can do any role in any marriage. Stop being so condescending to both sexes. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 You leave the house and let her fit in her place as a mother , she should take her responsibility , Then. After that you say what you want from her , be it a divorce or agreed separation , first insist on brining her back to her home , if she is a good mother she won't refuse , if she he has other plans it will be obvious The OP makes no money to speak of as "a part-time musician" so if she returns to the home as a f/t mother they will be living on benefits... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 His wife will be ordered to pay spousal and child support. Assets would likely be divided. The OP can get daytime employment if he chooses. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 His wife will be ordered to pay spousal and child support. Yes if they were to divorce, but zous is suggesting the OP forces his wife to come home to look after the kids, to put her back in her place. As she is the main/only breadwinner, I guess money would be extremely tight.. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Yes if they were to divorce, but zous is suggesting the OP forces his wife to come home to look after the kids, to put her back in her place. As she is the main/only breadwinner, I guess money would be extremely tight.. He could then earn some money by working while the kids are at school. OP - are you opposed to working during the daytime? What skills do you have to work? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 He could then earn some money by working while the kids are at school. OP - are you opposed to working during the daytime? What skills do you have to work?I'd be willing to work during the daytime if it becomes necessary due to separation/divorce or maybe just for its own sake. Perhaps it's time. I'm definitely employable as I have an advanced degree, plenty of useful skills, and I'm pleasant to be around. I'm not even 50 years old yet, so ageism is not a huge concern yet in terms of getting hired. The nice thing about working the way I currently work is enables me to care for our home, our kids, and my mother-in-law with dementia who lives in a distant state. I can still do all those things with a full-time job, but it would be harder. Also, I like having the time to perform/rehearse/practice as a musician but that can be sacrificed or backburnered if needed. I recognize that my current lifestyle depends on my wife's income but it's something we agreed on. Of course we can alter the agreement but that ought to be a mutual decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 You can’t fix a marriage by yourself - that’s not possible. According to Michelle Weiner Davis, that is exactly what she recommends. It starts with you and eventually spreads to your spouse. I am reading her book The Divorce Remedy and I am hopeful her program will help us. Link to post Share on other sites
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