Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

[BaileyB]

^^^

 

Yep, BR wrote what I have also been saying.

 

Agree. Perhaps, it’s just the endless over analysis to which this forum lends itself that causes people to have this opinion. But, the endless over analysis, the assumptions and projection of what your wife must be feeling, the condescending and arrogant manner in which you dismiss feedback and proclaim yourself to be “indisputably beyoung reproach” as a husband... I’ve said it before, but it exhausts me. If this is how your wife feels, I can understand her ambivalence and reluctance to engage in communication...

 

If I may, every time I tune in to this discussion you are heading in a different direction. Two days ago, you had the kill her with kindness plan, yesterday you were so angry you were prepared to divorce and planning to take her for everything you could get, and today you plan to remove your wedding rings to make a point (an increadibly passive aggressive move, by the way) but say life is not intolerable and you will not leave because of your kids. Respectfully, you are emotionally reactive and if you are not careful, it’s going to get you into a world of trouble...

Edited March 29, 2019 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

I agree with Bailey B, you are all over the place. You need to calm down, go to therapy for at least 6 weeks and reassess the whole situation then with a clearer mindset. I note you previous history of hospitalisation for mental illness so look after yourself, eat well, get good sleep, try to relax and seek help if necessary

In the meantime no hasty decisions, no passive aggressive drama, no upsetting any applecarts, tread water until you know for certain what you are going to do.

[BaileyB]

I agree with Bailey B, you are all over the place. You need to calm down, go to therapy for at least 6 weeks and reassess the whole situation then with a clearer mindset. I note you previous history of hospitalisation for mental illness so look after yourself, eat well, get good sleep, try to relax and seek help if necessary

In the meantime no hasty decisions, no passive aggressive drama, no upsetting any applecarts, tread water until you know for certain what you are going to do.

 

Absolutely!

 

In the last day or two, the way in which you have escalated based on the feedback you’ve received here and retelling your story to the Counsellor is concerning. Elaine gives good advice - I also suggest that you simmer down before you make any decisions.

[Wallysbears]

Two things:

 

1. I wonder the state of your mental health because you are ALL over the place in this thread.

 

2. I’d be slow to jump on the divorce wagon. Or in really pissing your wife off. And I’d say this to any woman in a SAHM situation, so don’t claim sexism. You have zero means of truly financially supporting yourself. You piss her off enough? You can wind up kicked to the curb and in a crappy studio apartment living on whatever spousal support you get. When you eventually get awarded it. Your cushy life of a SAH parent will be over.

 

Tread carefully and watch how many buttons you push. And fully evaluate what divorce MEANS.

[Rotaglia]

Two things:

 

1. I wonder the state of your mental health because you are ALL over the place in this thread.

 

2. I’d be slow to jump on the divorce wagon. Or in really pissing your wife off. And I’d say this to any woman in a SAHM situation, so don’t claim sexism. You have zero means of truly financially supporting yourself. You piss her off enough? You can wind up kicked to the curb and in a crappy studio apartment living on whatever spousal support you get. When you eventually get awarded it. Your cushy life of a SAH parent will be over.

 

Tread carefully and watch how many buttons you push. And fully evaluate what divorce MEANS.

Good advice. I appreciate that. I will take a chill pill and re-evaluate.

[Wallysbears]

Your wife may be living the female equivalent of “cheaper to keep her” (in your case, him)

 

In fact, I’d venture to guess she is. Because I would be if I were in her shoes.

 

 

Piss her off enough and be passive aggressive or aggressive enough? And you’re liable to find out you can be quickly replaced with a nanny and a caregiver and cut off from bank accounts...while she hires a shark attorney who blames the divorce on your mental health history and paints your wife as the loving and doting spouse who took care of you until you went too far and she just couldn’t anymore “for the sake of the kids”

 

If you don’t think it’s possible...I also have some ocean front property in AZ cheap for you.

[Wallysbears]

Good advice. I appreciate that. I will take a chill pill and re-evaluate.

 

If I were you? I’d be at the bank opening an account that I only had access to and stashing away money a little bit at a time.

 

I’d also be networking and getting my financial and career house in order.

 

 

It can’t hurt...if you fix your marriage, great! If you don’t...you’re preparing in case you wind up having to support yourself.

 

It’s great for people to tell you to do XYZ...but are they going to put money in a bank account for you if you need it?

 

 

Chill. Think. Evaluate. Plan.

 

You can’t go all emotions. It won’t help you in the long run.

[Rotaglia]

My wife called to say her grandmother is near death and is expected to pass away within 24 hours (but who knows for sure). I of course told her I loved her and I was deeply sorry for the impending loss. I love her grandmother too, of course. This is very hard on my wife; her grandmother is a link to my late father-in-law, who passed away very young and was his mother's only child, tragically.

 

I promised to fly down with our kids for the funeral should the expected take place.

 

This seems like a good moment to give my wife some space to grieve, set aside my frustrations with our relationship, reflect, and exhibit kindness. It'll be a drama-free zone around here for a while. No relationship talk from me. My wife deserves time to focus on the mourning process.

 

An Important Note

I just wanted to say in light of the apparent frustration of some of my new friends here on LS that although I seem to be "all over the place," please understand that I use LS for support and as a sounding board, a safe space to vent, test ideas, complain, argue, weigh pros and cons, etc.

 

My behavior in fleshworld is substantially different than what I sometimes portray here. Rotaglia is not my real name (and it doesn't mean anything) and he is not who I really am, either. He is my alter-ego. Were you to meet me in person, I would probably surprise you. Rotaglia is a proxy for my anxieties, my anger, my worries—but he is not me and I am not him.

 

I deeply appreciate everyone's contributions and I dearly hope they will continue. This really helps The Real Me. Who cares what happens to poor ol’ Rotaglia.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Rotaglia

[Rotaglia]

Your wife may be living the female equivalent of “cheaper to keep her” (in your case, him)

 

In fact, I’d venture to guess she is. Because I would be if I were in her shoes.

 

 

Piss her off enough and be passive aggressive or aggressive enough? And you’re liable to find out you can be quickly replaced with a nanny and a caregiver and cut off from bank accounts...while she hires a shark attorney who blames the divorce on your mental health history and paints your wife as the loving and doting spouse who took care of you until you went too far and she just couldn’t anymore “for the sake of the kids”

 

If you don’t think it’s possible...I also have some ocean front property in AZ cheap for you.

Yikes. Yes, that does seem like a plausible narrative she could and would use should things turn adversarial. Good call.

[Rotaglia]

the condescending and arrogant manner in which you dismiss feedback and proclaim yourself to be “indisputably beyoung reproach” as a husband

I did not intend to be condescending or arrogant, but if that is how it came across to you, I duly apologize.

 

today you plan to remove your wedding rings to make a point (an increadibly passive aggressive move, by the way) but say life is not intolerable and you will not leave because of your kids.

I did have the good sense to mention that I wondered if removing the ring would be construed as passive-aggressive, did I not? You say it would be and I find your input helpful. I suspected that might be the case. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.

[Rotaglia]

As my late grandmother would say, “I may be meshugge but I ain’t crazy.”

[Rotaglia]

Okay, look ... sex looms very large in my psychology. Like many men, I have a primal need to connect sexually with the woman I love. The lack of sex in this relationship is enormously frustrating along with the sense of rejection that comes with it. My wife's unwillingness to accommodate me on any level or even to speak kind words to soften the blow is likewise very frustrating.

 

So how do I deal constructively with those feelings? My wife and I both know that divorce would be disastrous. We also both know that I am not willing to act out sexually outside of the marriage. Adultery, open marriage, swinging, etc. are out of the question for me, full stop. The lack of sex in my marriage does not justify those things for me (not judging others who make different choices).

 

Should I try to love my wife through utter sexlessness? I told her a sexless marriage is not an option for me, but I admit to some doubt on that point. Could I choose to remain in this relationship and watch the last shreds of my middle-age masculinity slowly go down the proverbial drain in exchange for the comfortable (but in some ways unfulfilled) life I presently enjoy?

 

I agree pursuing a career is a good path regardless.

[preraph]

I've not weighed in yet, and just read mostly all Rotaglia's post, or at least scanned the longer ones.

 

This won't make you feel any better, but women are sometimes just so dependent on the emotional connection to feel sexy, and that if for some reason that turns off, it's kaput. After this long in marriage, I feel that she may have come to feel about you more like a parental figure and less like a husband. In some ways, you are both parental figures to one another. She is taking care of you financially, but you are taking care of her and the family most other ways and doing it with love. I'm 66 and I can just tell you that as people get older, sometimes they just become so familiar with one another that they stop thinking of the other as a sexual target. It's hard to explain to men because men are less likely to not want sex, even when things have gotten ho-hum. They usually still want sex.

 

On top of that, yes, menopause can really drain the drive from you. Hard work like she's doing can kill your sex drive too. Having a sick relative doesn't help.

 

As an artist you may understand this analogy. When I'm working hard, which can be for years at a time, and that's all I'm doing, I am in this mindset where I totally lose my creativity. I have to be idle and leisurely for some time and wind down and become more ethereal before I feel like writing anything creative or before I begin to think philosophically. I think your wife may just be on this merry-go-round and has compartmentalized everything (she's aloof to begin with) and it might take a long haitus for her to change gears to the extent she is capable at this point due to hormones.

 

As for divorce, I think she wonders how she'd ever do it all without you, just like a businessman would be loathe to seek divorce if there was some other avenue and lose his wife, who is taking care of the kids and the basic necessities. It's inconvenient. She is probably already overwhelmed despite all you do to hold the fort down. So she probably wishes to just go on as is until she might ever spontaneously change gears.

 

I was getting my hopes up on your post about how you sometimes do still kiss and be loving in that way. I mean, that's a sign she's not completely gone cold, or she'd be putting a stop to that as well.

 

I think it's nice you stopped going around in your underwear and put on a nice robe. I think small gestures like that are nice. And you dress up for her once in awhile. That's nice. Don't stop doing that. You want her to sometimes remember the man she fell in love with, because that's the hope.

 

It's a shame she won't talk more about menopause or anything else physical that could be going on with her, because there are so many things that creep up on you with age that truly can make it painful or impractical to have sex, and that day comes eventually. And when you're feeling that way, you're not exactly feeling sexy enough to accommodate the other person either because it takes so much more energy to just get through a day. It happens with age and ailments. Hopefully, that hasn't started yet, but it's not far off. So at some point, you do have to reckon with it. And that's the point you may both need separate bedrooms, because once you get arthritis or snoring or some breathing thing, neither of you will want someone else in bed or you won't sleep well. But that's also when you get a big oversized couch and get your cuddling done before retiring to the bedroom trying to sleep.

 

By what you've written, the small amount of affection you've gottten out of her has been when you're not seeking it or talking about it, but just being a gentleman and trying to have some fun. I would encourage you to get past this relative who's dying and her mourning and yours, and then concentrate on simply trying to inject fun and lightheartedness into your time together, without any pressure or having to "talk it out" or anything. Just like when you first start dating someone, I always say, People just want to have fun and be entertained. Don't overdo it. Just try being fun and entertaining and in a laughing mood some when you're together, bring light into the room.

 

I hope anything I said landed. I don't think you throw out a relationship like this until there simply isn't anything left.

[Rotaglia]

I've not weighed in yet, and just read mostly all Rotaglia's post, or at least scanned the longer ones.

 

This won't make you feel any better, but women are sometimes just so dependent on the emotional connection to feel sexy, and that if for some reason that turns off, it's kaput. After this long in marriage, I feel that she may have come to feel about you more like a parental figure and less like a husband.

Thank you for this thoughtful post. I will endeavor to do just that. I do love my wife unconditionally. I just find that the sexlessness and lack of sexual understanding and kindness to be awfully frustrating. Sometimes in my eagerness to restore the sexual connection I lose sight of other important things. Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

You have stated what you are not willing to sacrifice/live with.

These are all valid points. I don't think anybody can “make someone happy”—only the individual themselves can do that. I believe that I share my wife's happiness, but that's not the same thing.

 

My wife has said a lot of painful things to me in the last year or two, but maybe instead of rejecting them as ridiculous perhaps the thing to do is to try to listen to the essential (if unpleasant) truth behind them.

 

I can accept her feelings without agreeing with them.

Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[giotto]

I've been there. It's not easy. You are torn between the love for your wife, the desire you feel for her and her despicable treatment of you. You want her, but you are angry and there's nothing you can do.

 

I don't have a solution. Move out of the bedroom and take several steps back. Take time to reflect. Find out what you really want. If your wife asks you why you have moved out of the bedroom, tell her that you find sleeping next to her unbearable, because you desire her and she can't give you what you want. Just wait a bit and see what happens. But I doubt anything will change. She will be probably happy that she doesn't have to share the bedroom with you. This is the bitter truth. Hounding her will have the opposite effect. Be prepared to leave the marriage, or you can stay until your child is 18... good luck! You are where I was 10 ten years ago - only that we were having sex...

[pepperbird]

I truly, honestly am open to hearing the truth so I can respond appropriately. Maybe it took me a while to get there but I am genuinely open to changing but it really depends on what sort of change we are talking about.

 

 

I figured that if you talked enough, you'd begin to get to the heart of the matter.

All along, you've painted yourself as this great husband who can't understand why his wife won;t open up to him, yet in this statement, you imply that this is a rather recent development.

Also, being a partner with someone with mental illness is a very tough and exhausting row to hoe. Many people with mental illness become incredibly selfish ( not meaning to), and their spouse walks on eggshells, afraid to upset the person.

It's also extremely difficult to become close to someone who is in the active phase of depression. It's like being on an emotional roller coaster, and when you love someone with depression, you suffer right along with them.

[elaine567]

If you move out of the bedroom that is not something you do lightly.

This is not like having a big blow out, saying "I am sleeping on the couch" and two days later you have made up.

 

Your long term marital disagreement is about the bedroom and sex, so if you move out of the bedroom then it is a huge deal, it may be difficult if not impossible to move back in.

Giotto may be right she won't care and you are left alone every night in the spare room. If she does care or if she thinks she is being manipulated or humiliated by you, she may then see your moving out of the marital bed as a aggressive act on your part.

Gone will be the nice, cosy, peaceful, albeit sexless marriage, to be replaced potentially by coldness, indifference and even anger...

People need some closeness to keep a relationship going, bedrooms are not only for sex they are about talking, catching up and reinforcing a bond.

By introducing more space, your relationship such as it is, may crumble all together.

If you move out of the bedroom, divorce may then be a done deal.

 

All very well to make big dramatic gestures in order "to teach the other person a lesson" but think them through carefully as often these acts have consequences which impact negatively on yourself, whilst the other may not care a damn...

She may be as happy as Larry relaxing, reading or watching Netflix in her own room, whilst you are left stewing in the spare room...

[pepperbird]

Teaching her a lesson? She's not a petulant child. She may well have legitimate reasons for her behavior, but the op doesn't seem to have any real understanding of his wife's psyche and needs.

 

 

 

The op himself gas admitted he wasn't always open to change or to listening to his wife. Now, for whatever reason, he's ready, and he expects her to suddenly feel ready to just because he is?

 

 

Op, give your poor wife a chance to catch up! You have had more than 20 years to deal with your issues. Doesn't your wife deserve the same consideration?

 

My guess? ( and op, I am sorry if this is hurtful to you. I know coping with depression can be so hard, and I am so sorry you had to go through that), she doesn't feel she can trust you emotionally to carry the weight of her problems and concerns, not because you are a bad guy, but because she developed the coping mechanism when you were ill. It's really common for partners of people who are mentally ill to carry the weight of the family because they don't want to add any extra stress to the person who is ill, and they don't know if they can trust them anyway.

 

Her state of mind didn't happen overnight. It likely took a long time. It's going to take a lot of work on both your parts to fix, and you need to let her know that you can handle whatever she throws at you, even if she says it in a hurtful way. If she is hurtful in her words, take a moment and reflect back to her what you think she meant.

[Rotaglia]

It's ironic really. Apparently my wife is so concerned about my past mental health issues that she's doing things to in the present that drive me crazy. Not exactly helpful!

If she chooses to use depression from the past to poison our present and future, there is little I can do other than to reassure her, take good care of myself, keep up with treatment, etc.

But honestly? If I couldn't or wouldn't have sex with my partner because I could not let go of past involuntary traumas that befell both of us, then I would seek professional help. She refuses to do so. Is that appropriate?

Her dysfunction in the present is itself a mental health challenge for her and she is refusing to address it or allow me to help her with it.

 

This the essence of the mental health stigma. If I had cancer instead of depression, everyone would take my wife to task for being so cruel, but since it was depression, it's blame-the-victim-24/7 with societal permission. Well, guess what—depression is an illness and no more my fault than cancer would have been.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Rotaglia

[elaine567]

It's ironic really. Apparently me wife is so concerned about my past mental health issues that she's doing things to in the present that drive me crazy. Not exactly helpful!

 

As has been said before, some women just do not rate sex and thus do not see what the fuss is about.

You getting all huffy and upset is as important as a kid having a tantrum about a new toy or being denied a sweet.

Parents withhold the new toy or deny the sweet usually for a good reason, but the kid doesn't see that and I guess it is the same here.

I guess sex is off the menu for a good reason, but you are so focused on not getting the sex, that you are not seeing the reason.

[Rotaglia]

As has been said before, some women just do not rate sex and thus do not see what the fuss is about.

You are treating my wife as though she is a child.

You getting all huffy and upset is as important as a kid having a tantrum about a new toy or being denied a sweet.

I find that rather condescending.

I guess sex is off the menu for a good reason, but you are so focused on not getting the sex, that you are not seeing the reason.

Did you actually read my posts (e.g., the immediately preceding one)? I have described "the reason" in exhaustive detail. It is you who are failing to see.

[elaine567]

I have described "the reason" in exhaustive detail.

 

The reasons have ranged far and wide over this thread, so what in your mind is "the reason"?

[Rotaglia]

The reasons have ranged far and wide over this thread, so what in your mind is "the reason"?

Asked and answered.

[Wallysbears]

It's ironic really. Apparently my wife is so concerned about my past mental health issues that she's doing things to in the present that drive me crazy. Not exactly helpful!

If she chooses to use depression from the past to poison our present and future, there is little I can do other than to reassure her, take good care of myself, keep up with treatment, etc.

But honestly? If I couldn't or wouldn't have sex with my partner because I could not let go of past involuntary traumas that befell both of us, then I would seek professional help. She refuses to do so. Is that appropriate?

Her dysfunction in the present is itself a mental health challenge for her and she is refusing to address it or allow me to help her with it.

 

This the essence of the mental health stigma. If I had cancer instead of depression, everyone would take my wife to task for being so cruel, but since it was depression, it's blame-the-victim-24/7 with societal permission. Well, guess what—depression is an illness and no more my fault than cancer would have been.

 

Do you recognize that you do a lot of justifying and blaming?

 

Now you’re blaming your wife/society for not seeing depression as a disease like cancer.

 

No one said that and you don’t even know if it is true.

 

Every time someone states a different position, you run full speed down a different rabbit hole. Why is that? Maybe something to consider speaking to a therapist about.