Author Rotaglia Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 It is important to note that depression takes effort to manage. Everyone has mental health that needs tending and folks who have had depression (as I have) should be especially vigilant in enhancing their mental health. Thankfully, I do not feel depressed even with the challenges with my wife. I am actually quite resilient in the face of all this. I intend to use my strength to rebuild our marriage. I will be humble. I will give. I will support my wife. Our marriage is a place where she can be herself, feel safe, and be content. It is safe harbor. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Or perhaps they will start effectively communicating? I doubt it... I have been there. She will give in and give him a bit of pity sex to keep him happy. I'm sure his wife doesn't hate him. She is just gone off him. If faced with a divorce threat she might budge... but it won't last long. Probably until they become empty-nesters... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 All I want is a thorough, honest, loving discussion in which she can really, truly be heard, understood, accepted, and embraced by me. However, the funeral is delayed a week because my wife's grandmother requested cremation. So any discussion of the relationship will have to wait. My job right now is to support my wife in her grief and handle things to get them off her plate. I accept that divorce is a possibility. I am less afraid of that than I was. I will face that reality forthrightly. I strongly prefer rebuilding. If my wife is serious about rebuilding I am all for it. Sex is off the table until further notice. No pressure on her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 I doubt it... I have been there. She will give in and give him a bit of pity sex to keep him happy. I'm sure his wife doesn't hate him. She is just gone off him. If faced with a divorce threat she might budge... but it won't last long. Probably until they become empty-nesters...What a crummy outcome for all of us that would be. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 What a crummy outcome for all of us that would be. Very crummy. I know, it's happened to me... Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 op, one of the "hats" I wear is that of an advocate for those living with mental illness. One thing a lot of people with mental illness don't realize is the toll it can take on their family, and especially their spouse. You've gotten a lot of support to help you, and rightfully so. What support did your wife receive when she was carrying the weight of the whole fmaily, including you? I've attended support groups for family members of people with mental illness. One thing a man said about his wife that always stuck with me is how he was too afraid to fully open up to his wife. He couldn't trust her. By that he meant that he was afraid that bringing up problems to her could result in a "flare|" of sorts for her depression. To him, was akin to handling a very fragile piece of china. You know you have the inner strength to handle tough discussions, but maybe she doesn't know that. She can't read your mind. Also, you mention that she won;t go to therapy or counseling. How long is it take you to seek help for your depression? Sometimes, it can take a long time for someone to admit they need help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 op, one of the "hats" I wear is that of an advocate for those living with mental illness. One thing a lot of people with mental illness don't realize is the toll it can take on their family, and especially their spouse. You've gotten a lot of support to help you, and rightfully so. What support did your wife receive when she was carrying the weight of the whole fmaily, including you? I've attended support groups for family members of people with mental illness. One thing a man said about his wife that always stuck with me is how he was too afraid to fully open up to his wife. He couldn't trust her. By that he meant that he was afraid that bringing up problems to her could result in a "flare|" of sorts for her depression. To him, was akin to handling a very fragile piece of china. You know you have the inner strength to handle tough discussions, but maybe she doesn't know that. She can't read your mind. Also, you mention that she won;t go to therapy or counseling. How long is it take you to seek help for your depression? Sometimes, it can take a long time for someone to admit they need help. I am not fragile. My wife does not have to worry about me being destroyed by her opening up. I might get upset or cry, but I will not fall apart. I began seeing psychiatrists and therapists once I left the hospital. My wife strongly resists any kind of therapy for her or MC for us, which I think might be a missed opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 I can understand why she might worry that talking about our marriage (and possible dissolution thereof) might upset me, but I do not believe it would trigger depression. There are no guarantees, of course. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) but I do not believe it would trigger depression. There are no guarantees, of course. you can say that with the confidence you do because you know you own mind ( btw...I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who can overcome depression. You have a great inner strength). Try looking at the situation form her point of view. In her shoes I might feel like this: " I love you "R" , but I'm afraid. I'm afraid to talk to him about what's bothering me because I'm sacred. I don't want him to spiral down, and I don't know that me speaking up won't cause that to happen. I'm also very, very tired. When you got sick, all attention was on you, which is exactly how it should be. That experience of watching you fall, you being hospitalized, being afraid I would lose you, supporting you when he came home and being afraid of your depression returning has burned me out. Add to that the abject and utter sense of helplessness ( and guilt) that I could not make you better, seeing you in that depth of emotional pain and I am tired, exhausted even. I admit I keep part of myself closed off. I'm afraid that if I allow myself to be "all in" and the depression returns, I could lose you. That terrifies me, so to protect myself, I feel like I have to keep that part safe. I love that you have stayed home with our kids, and I think they are much better for having been able to spend so much time with their dad. I've watched them grow, and through the ups and downs, you've always been there for them. I can't tell you how much that means to me. I also appreciate how you have gotten so close to my mom. It's made her older years so much better than they may have been otherwise. She thinks the world of you. I'm sorry if I have hurt you. I never meant to do that. Please understand that you have hurt me too. We've hurt each other, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. Just as I was there for you when you were sick, I need you to be here for me now. I'm sorry I'm not good at talking about all of this, but if we could start slowly, maybe I can learn to get better. " This is what I think ( of course I don't know) could well be in your wife's mind, as I have been in her shoes many years ago. I'm not trying to say your depression will come back, but I do think it scared your wife. I can tell you love your wife a lot, and she must have done an awful lot right to have earned that love. ( I will give you one more fear she may have. This may be very triggering to you, so please read it at your own discretion) One more fear your wife may have is mental illness developing in your children. There is believed to be a genetic component, and about the only thing worse than supporting your spouse when they are coping with mental illness, it seeing it develop in your child and watching them fight it. The good news? You'll recognize the signs early and be able to get help before the spiral even starts. Hopefully, you'll never have to, but no matter what you'll be well prepared. ( sorry if this stopped making sense. bad night for pain, and 4:20 makes me fuzzy) Edited March 31, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) you can say that with the confidence you do because you know you own mind ( btw...I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who can overcome depression. You have a great inner strength). Thank you for this. It made me tear up. My soul cries out for my wife to say something remotely like this to me. It would mean so much. Perhaps if I can make her feel safe enough, she might share some of these sorts of feelings. Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote edited Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 I didn't realize until now that I have been so busy demanding from my wife what I felt entitled to that I failed to give her the safe space she needed to share her fears, her worries, her anxieties with me. That's my #1 job. Why didn't I see this before? I should have let her express what she was feeling about my past depression and hospitalizations and how that experience impacted her. Hearing that would be painful for me, of course—but I should not have resisted it so hard for so long. I want to start doing exactly that—listening empathetically—as soon as possible. Tomorrow my daughter and I are traveling to her great-grandmother's funeral. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 I was too busy focusing on my anger and my feelings of rejection to give my wife what she really needed—security, reassurance, compassion for her feelings. What a dreadful mistake on my part! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 She told me a while ago (one evening when she declined sex with me) that her reason was we had been drifting apart. I was so upset by that and so intent on disputing her that I failed to address the genuine pain she was expressing. I should have said something like this: “Honey, I am so pained to hear you put it that way. Do you have any insight as to why that might be happening? Is there something I am doing that causes you to feel alienated?” Her pain was important in that moment and I gave it short shrift. I must tell her, but timing is key. This is a mourning period and my focus must be on serving my mother-in-law, my wife, my brother-in-law, and my niece and giving them space to visit, talk, and reminisce. I will speak to my wife in private at a suitable time for her after a reasonable interval. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 Have I unwittingly developed a habit of making my wife feel guilty when what she deserved was empathy and understanding? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 She has said that she needs me to be "her rock." Sometimes it might be hard to be her rock amid rejection but perhaps it is still important to be that rock, that steady and reassuring presence. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I was too busy focusing on my anger and my feelings of rejection to give my wife what she really needed—security, reassurance, compassion for her feelings. What a dreadful mistake on my part! I see... now it's all your fault. I went through something like that. It's not all your fault. She is withdrawing from you and she is not even giving you a proper explanation... How long ago were you hospitalised? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) How long ago were you hospitalised? It was more than one time but the last one was six years ago. I see... now it's all your fault. I went through something like that. It's not all your fault. She is withdrawing from you and she is not even giving you a proper explanation Do not misunderstand. It is not *all my fault* by a longshot; however, I think I am beginning to recognize that there is some aspect of this that *might be* my fault and I need to explore that possibility It could be the very thing that is preventing my wife from opening up to me. Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) I thought she already told you to go and find yourself another woman? If she wanted to protect you, then why saying such a horrible thing? She is trying to shift the blame on you and she is doing very well, apparently... Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) I thought she already told you to go and find yourself another woman?Hopefully she was expressing a feeling in that moment that she is not good enough for me and that she either did not mean that she literally wants me to leave or that she no longer feels that way. I won't know until I talk to her about it, I suppose. If she wanted to protect you, then why saying such a horrible thing? She is trying to shift the blame on you and she is doing very well, apparently...That is something to beware of, certainly. I am not trying to accept blame for our situation in toto, but I feel like she needs a life raft from me. Edited March 31, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 It will be tough for me to keep my mouth shut for the next week or so as my wife mourns her grandmother but it seems like the right thing to do. Interjecting my emotional needs into that environment simply isn't appropriate. I am also trying not to be the pursuer in this situation. I am attempting to detach. I am trying not to need her validation quite so much. Damn it. Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 It was more than one time but the last one was six years ago. And therein lies the problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Okay, but what is the specific problem? Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Merely because I am not at fault for my serious episodes of depression/hospitalization does not mean that they did not hurt my wife and family deeply nor that they do not worry her in the present. It is possible that I failed to allow her to adequately air her fears and worries concerning that in dialogue with me. Eventually, her right to "space" (i.e., the right to not talk about the relationship for a while) impinges on my right to know the status of things and where she thinks this is all going. “I don’t know” doesn’t cut it. I suspect she wants a divorce and is afraid to say so. Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 Maybe she is trying to preserve the marriage in her way but she is also struggling. Perhaps I can help her. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) OTOH, she is clearly the walkaway spouse here so I should proceed on the assumption that we are no longer a romantic couple but we are still legally wed and I will use what time I have to prepare for life apart. I'll still be consistently kind to my wife, listen if she wants to talk, but the pursuit is over. Sex is out of the question unless something radical changes. Today I console my loved ones for the loss of my wife's grandmother. The funeral is today. My happiness does not depend on the outcome. My mental health remains sound regardless of the outcome. I am confident, serene, and secure in my values. I love my wife unconditionally but I may not be able to be her husband anymore and although that is sad it is okay. I do obsess about this quite a bit. I will work with my support team to control that and use the gym and yoga to help. We wil continue to enjoy family life. There is no reason to be bitter. If it must be so, I will be an exemplary ex-husband and dad. My ethical standards will not be compromised to serve my pain. Edited April 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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