Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

[BettyDraper]

You apparently think that repeating your absurd, sexist, ad hominem claptrap will make you less wrong than you were when you first stated it. Unfortunately for you, you are mistaken. How unfortunate I am to be morally judged for having the improper genitalia for the role you have assigned me.

 

If someone says something that you don't want to hear, it doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong.

 

How have you been the rock that your wife wants? I'm asking because I believe that your wife would be more amenable to having sex with you if she felt that you were someone that she could lean on for a change. It's not fair that your wife has to be the breadwinner as well as the adult in your marriage.

 

Before you stomp your feet and deny these observations, consider the fact that you get to play music and visit your MIL while your wife has a career. You didn't even bother to get dressed and you also required a lot of care while you were ill. I am not fabricating these facts; they are posted in this thread for all to read.

 

When I read your posts, I see a bright man who is unfortunately given to laziness, immaturity, and taking without giving.

I also see a burned out wife who resents all that is put on her shoulders so she is turned off sex.

Edited April 9, 2019 by BettyDraper

[Rotaglia]

If someone says something that you don't want to hear, it doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong.

You're correct that it's not automatic. You are wrong in this case by steering manually.

How have you been the rock that your wife wants? I'm asking because I believe that your wife would be more amenable to having sex with you if she felt that you were someone that she could lean on for a change.

I don't do things just so my wife will have sex with me. I do what I do because it's the right thing to do for my family and my marriage. I have been the primary caregiver to two very wonderful but challenging kids (our older child has autism; our younger one is highly creative but also defiant as heck). I care for our home, fix things, pay bills, manage the mail, do the grocery shopping, take the kids to activities, and innumerable other things that need doing. Whether you think that's "being a rock" or not what matters is what my wife thinks. Despite our present difficulties, she has repeatedly described me as a wonderful husband. That's all the affirmation I need.

It's not fair that your wife has to be the breadwinner as well as the adult in your marriage.

More nonsense. What exactly is unfair about something we do by mutual agreement? And where do you get off assaulting my masculinity and labeling me as an infant?

You get to play music and visit your MIL while your wife has a career.

You also required a lot of care while you were ill.

Yes, and I genuflect in abject apology for having been ill. How could I have been such a horrible person to do something in which I had no choice? When does the statute of limitations finally expire on that so-called sin?

When I read your posts, I see a bright man who is unfortunately given to laziness, immaturity, and taking without giving.

Laziness??? Go jump in a lake. Immaturity??? Be serious. Taking without giving??? Patently false. As much as I appreciate your participation in this thread, Betty, sometimes you leave me scratching my head.

I also see a burned out wife who resents all that is put on her shoulders so she is turned off sex.

That may well be the case. My response to that is to step up my support for my wife even further. Hopefully she and I will talk about ways to give her the rest and recuperation she deserves. She has often resisted my calls for more me-time for her. I think now she is starting to realize that it's actually mandatory and will make her happier at home and more efficient at work.

 

Betty, I think you have a difficult time grasping the idea of "emotional labor," which is the hidden but very important work of confronting tasks that are mentally draining and daunting. Traveling to a distant state to make sure an elderly relative gives up her car and moves from her cherished home to an assisted living facility is a major emotional labor. Making sure that a relative with dementia made it to crucial doctor's appointments when she didn't want to is *very* difficult—but I am able to do it because of family teamwork.

 

I didn't do any of that to earn brownie points from anyone, not even from my wife. I didn't do it so my wife would have sex with me. I did it because it needed to be done and I was the one with the skill set and the time (thanks in the latter case to my wife's very hard work) to accomplish it. I don't seek recognition. I am not out to earn anyone's approval or love. This is what I do.

 

And by the way, next time you decide to denigrate the creation of music, I'll have you know I bring a lot of joy to a lot of people. I may not make a lot of money, but I contribute to the richness of my community and I am proud of that. If you want a world without music, by all means continue to trash the people who create it because such is the inevitable result of precisely that kind of myopia. The arts get short shrift in the United States and that facilitates the inexorable slide of this country into cultural and spiritual impoverishment.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Rotaglia

[BettyDraper]

You're correct that it's not automatic. You are wrong in this case by steering manually.

I don't do things just so my wife will have sex with me. I do what I do because it's the right thing to do for my family and my marriage. I have been the primary caregiver to two very wonderful but challenging kids (our older child has autism; our younger one is highly creative but also defiant as heck). I care for our home, fix things, pay bills, manage the mail, do the grocery shopping, take the kids to activities, and innumerable other things that need doing. Whether you think that's "being a rock" or not what matters is what my wife thinks. Despite our present difficulties, she has repeatedly described me as a wonderful husband. That's all the affirmation I need.

More nonsense. What exactly is unfair about something we do by mutual agreement? And where do you get off assaulting my masculinity and labeling me as an infant?

 

Your wife has done far more emotional labor than you have.

She is taking care of you and your children. You are taking care of your MIL.

You may not be seriously ill now but your wife is still looking after you financially and emotionally on top of being a mother.

 

Speaking practically with respect to your marriage, "the creation of music" is not helping your wife with all of the responsibilities she has on her plate. I love music and I have not even implied that I would want a world without it. I was focusing on how you essentially get to enjoy a hobby while your wife does most of the heavy lifting in your marriage.

 

If you are not lazy, then why has it taken you a month to start looking for work? Your immaturity is evident in your refusal to graciously take the advice that you asked for. This is clear in your responses which are reminiscent of a sullen teenager. Most of your responses include some variation of "You didn't read the thread" or "That's wrong! I don't do that! nyah nyah nyah.."

Edited April 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

Your wife has done far more emotional labor than you have.

She is taking care of you and your children. You are taking care of your MIL.

That's simply factually inaccurate. No matter how vehemently you make these claims or how often, they are still untrue.

Speaking practically with respect to your marriage, "the creation of music" is not helping your wife with all of the responsibilities she has on her plate. I love music and I have not even implied that I would want a world without it. I was focusing on how you essentially get to enjoy a hobby while your wife does most of the heavy lifting in your marriage.

I don't think she would see it that way.

 

Most of your responses include some variation of "You didn't read the thread"

That is because either you didn't read the thread, you didn't understand it, or you forgot the substance of it when you made your comments.

[pepperbird]

Poorly.

 

 

She has survivor guilt? Caregiver rage? Boo-hoo, poor her. Take a number, sweetie. It is not a license to treat your spouse like dirt.

 

 

And here we see the truth. I knew it would come out eventually.

 

 

 

This hyperbole speaks for itself.

[pepperbird]

op,

if the way you treat your wife is the way you treat the posters on here, it's no wonder your wife won't be more open.

[Crazelnut]

Whatever. I will not apologize for having been ill and my empathy for her suffering as a caregiver has limits. I have been open to discussing all of that and it has pretty much gotten nowhere. If she wants to punish me in the present and poison our relationship for my past illness by checking out of our marriage that is her misfortune. I will not make it my misfortune. I am not her shrink (and she wouldn't see a professional anyway); I'm her husband. I am not responsible for her feelings and reactions any more than she is responsible for my feelings and reactions.

 

She has survivor guilt? Caregiver rage? Boo-hoo, poor her. Take a number, sweetie. It is not a license to treat your spouse like dirt.

 

Wow. Just ... wow. This was just unnecessarily harsh, coming from Mr. Touchy Feely. I truly hope that this is just you lashing out at a poster for poking you, and not how you really feel. You DO get defensive whenever anyone brings up your episodes of depression.

 

You really need to step back and try to understand how significantly a spouse's mental illness can affect your life and marriage. I speak from experience. My late DH went through several severe bouts of depression, including hospitalization and a failed suicide attempt. It was one of the worst things *I* have ever been through. It changes your relationship, even long after recovery. There is always a nagging fear in the back of your mind. Always an ongoing assessment of your DH's mental state. The emotional burden is indescribable, not to mention the actual effort / upheaval of the episode itself (somebody has to keep taking care of the kids, spending time at the hospital or needing to be home, taking care of the spouse, arranging care, keeping up with meds, dealing with insurance and FMLA, etc.). It burns you out BIG TIME, not matter how much you love your husband and understand that this isn't his fault. You are left with a lingering sense that the other shoe will drop and he will slide into depression again. You constantly have to be "the strong one."

 

Even if she never said a word, your wife probably felt a lot of this, and it probably affected your relationship.

[Rotaglia]

op,

if the way you treat your wife is the way you treat the posters on here, it's no wonder your wife won't be more open.

The Internet and this forum in particular have significant limitations in their ability to reflect reality accurately.

[Rotaglia]

Wow. Just ... wow. This was just unnecessarily harsh, coming from Mr. Touchy Feely. I truly hope that this is just you lashing out at a poster for poking you, and not how you really feel. You DO get defensive whenever anyone brings up your episodes of depression.

I actually do understand what you are describing in a deeply profound and visceral way. On multiple occasions I have invited my wife to talk to me about this and have been rebuffed. I have offered for her to seek counseling (I already see somebody) or to see someone together and she says no. Does this mean she is satisfied with the status quo? If the situation were reversed, I would seek to improve my relationship with my wife in light of those feelings. Why won't she?

 

I am truly sorry for your loss.

Edited April 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

I am angry because I object to the idea that an illness in my past that has been overcome somehow entitles me to only half a marriage in the present.

[vla1120]

I am angry because I object to the idea that an illness in my past that has been overcome somehow entitles me to only half a marriage in the present.

 

Your answer is (in part) below - as is my extended answer (below that):

 

It was one of the worst things *I* have ever been through. It changes your relationship, even long after recovery. There is always a nagging fear in the back of your mind. Always an ongoing assessment of your DH's mental state. The emotional burden is indescribable, not to mention the actual effort / upheaval of the episode itself (somebody has to keep taking care of the kids, spending time at the hospital or needing to be home, taking care of the spouse, arranging care, keeping up with meds, dealing with insurance and FMLA, etc.). It burns you out BIG TIME, not matter how much you love your husband and understand that this isn't his fault. You are left with a lingering sense that the other shoe will drop and he will slide into depression again. You constantly have to be "the strong one."

 

I am living this reality with my daughter, always keeping watch, always worried about relieving her stress and anxiety so there is not another attempt. I cannot imagine living through this with my spouse. (Though, in a sense, I am - because my husband does often talk about suicide because of his stage 4 cancer - but that's a whole different thread...)

 

We do not know the extent of your period of depression or what adverse effect it had on your wife/marriage/family. You have no reason to feel "guilty" about the past - it is what it is. I just wonder what residual effects are left over from that period of time. Is your wife possibly still keeping watch, waiting for the next shoe to drop (even if subconsciously?)

[giotto]

I am angry because I object to the idea that an illness in my past that has been overcome somehow entitles me to only half a marriage in the present.

 

People don't do it on purpose. Even if they try and rationalise it, in the back of their mind the fear persists... my wife is nuts she has a defence mechanism which is now come into full effect. She has basically finished our marriage and I didn't have any say. I was presented with the decision. She is giving me something which happened over 10 years ago as a justification. Ten years ago? Why did she tell me she loved me last time we had sex (15 months ago)... I'm baffled. I will never know the real reason and probably neither will you.

 

If she doesn't want to talk to you, you don't have many options. Give her unconditional love for a few more years (until the little one goes) and then, if nothing changes, leave. Or maybe, by then, you will have to get used to the no sex scenario...

[Rotaglia]

If she doesn't want to talk to you, you don't have many options. Give her unconditional love for a few more years (until the little one goes) and then, if nothing changes, leave. Or maybe, by then, you will have to get used to the no sex scenario...

Would it kill her to see a therapist?

 

I can live without sex. I hate it, but I can do it. It's been about two years and I'm not dead yet.

Living with a spouse who won't have sex with me, other hand, is unbearable.

I'm 49 years old. I cannot accept the idea that I have to retire from sex when my need for that kind of emotional and physical connection and intimacy is still strong.

I, too, am baffled. If the situation were reversed, I would be working to address the issue like the house was on fire. Where is the urgency on her part?

 

Perhaps paradoxically, since I stopped initiating discussions about the relationship, we both have relaxed a whole bunch. There are more smiles, more hugs and kisses, more fun.

I guess she is getting what she wanted. A stinkin' sexless marriage, which I have made clear is not acceptable.

 

How can she stand it? Lots of women I know of the same age would be furious if their husbands stopped sleeping with them (although I recognize that the experience of perimenopause and menopause are different for each woman).

Edited April 9, 2019 by Rotaglia

[pepperbird]

op,

your posts are all about what you need her to do to heal herself. Her healing isn't something that can be driven by you. You can encourage, you can ask but it's up to her, and the process will look like what it needs to look like.

 

 

 

btw...I highly suggest you really reconsider your stance. You've mocked her possibly feeling "survivor's guilt"( my guess is that it has a lot to do with PTSD) and you don't even see the irony in you getting your back up for posters pointing out she possibly has a mental health issue of her own.

 

 

Just as you have been through a tough time, so has she. If you can't see that, then you are being incredibly selfish. Why do you really want her to open up? Dig Deep and be honest with yourself. Is it for her or you?

 

 

it's not about chiding you for having a mental illness. it's about you choosing to ignore what some have been trying to tell you about what your wife may well have gone through. Rather than accept that, you get your feathers ruffled. Why?

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9225-caregiving-recognizing-burnout

 

 

https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/mentalillnessinthefamily/2016/03/marriage-and-mental-illness-take-care-of-the-caregiver

[vla1120]

Perhaps paradoxically, since I stopped initiating discussions about the relationship, we both have relaxed a whole bunch. There are more smiles, more hugs and kisses, more fun.

I guess she is getting what she wanted. A stinkin' sexless marriage, which I have made clear is not acceptable.

 

Eureka! So.....you pressure her less....she becomes more playful/intimate. You don't really KNOW that she wants a sexless marriage. You don't even know the reason she has withdrawn sex. Maybe if you relax a little more, stop pounding home the point that a sexless marriage is not acceptable, she'll open up to you. I dare you to keep doing what you are doing now. Do NOT bring up the subject of sex. Just keep doing what you are doing (backing off and giving her space) and see how things play out!

[pepperbird]

Would it kill her to see a therapist?

. If the situation were reversed, I would be working to address the issue like the house was on fire. Where is the urgency on her part?

 

 

 

Where is your urgency to be there and support her ON HER TERMS? That may not look like what you would want, but it's not about you.

[Rotaglia]

Eureka! So.....you pressure her less....she becomes more playful/intimate. You don't really KNOW that she wants a sexless marriage. You don't even know the reason she has withdrawn sex. Maybe if you relax a little more, stop pounding home the point that a sexless marriage is not acceptable, she'll open up to you. I dare you to keep doing what you are doing now. Do NOT bring up the subject of sex. Just keep doing what you are doing (backing off and giving her space) and see how things play out!

It's worth a shot.

[Rotaglia]

Where is your urgency to be there and support her ON HER TERMS? That may not look like what you would want, but it's not about you.

By all means. But that would be much easier to do if she would provide a few cues and clues. It would really behoove her to open up even a little bit so I can gain some insight into her experience. But man, it's like pulling teeth!! Aaaaaargh!!!!

[elaine567]

If the situation were reversed, I would be working to address the issue like the house was on fire. Where is the urgency on her part?

Would you? I guess not if you were perfectly happy with the situation.

Would it kill her to see a therapist?

She needs to see a therapist??

As far as I am aware deciding to stop having sex with a partner is not a mental disorder, does she really need therapy?

 

Yes, some may feel discussing issues with a therapist can be helpful but your wife may know exactly why she doesn't want to have sex with you so there may not be a lot to explore with a therapist...

A therapist cannot make her have sex with you.

We all tend to have sex with the people we want to have sex with, a therapist cannot dictate that she have sex with you.

[Rotaglia]

You are being a martyr about this.

I'm really trying not to be.

You are so codependent with her that you completely give up your needs to please her.

Not really, honestly. We've been married 22 years. It's no small thing to break up a marriage of that duration (esp. with kids involved) and I am not going to leap headlong into a dissolution solution (i.e., divorce) unless it really is the best thing to do after all other possibilities have been explored and exhausted.

[BettyDraper]

Where is your urgency to be there and support her ON HER TERMS? That may not look like what you would want, but it's not about you.

 

This is one example the OP's glaringly obvious immaturity and refusal to give in his marriage as well as take.

 

Judging by his responses to members on LS and the angry posts about his wife. I am not at all surprised that the poor woman isn't interested in having sex with him.

[Rotaglia]

You are being a martyr about this.

I'm really trying not to be.

You are so codependent with her that you completely give up your needs to please her.

Not really, honestly. We've been married 22 years. It's no small thing to break up a marriage of that duration (esp. with kids involved) and I am not going to leap headlong into a dissolution solution (i.e., divorce) unless it really is the best thing to do after all other possibilities have been explored and exhausted.

Where is your urgency to be there and support her ON HER TERMS? That may not look like what you would want, but it's not about you.

I'm more than happy to do that and have said so (to her) multiple times and in multiple ways. She just doesn't want to identify her needs so that makes it difficult to meet them without trying things at random, the latter of which is exhausting.

This is one example the OP's glaringly obvious immaturity and refusal to give in his marriage as well as take.

C'mon, Betty ... you're not giving me credit where credit is due here. I give *plenty*! The trick, though, for me is to give *smarter* — target my giving to her needs.

Judging by his responses to members on LS and the angry posts about his wife. I am not at all surprised that the poor woman isn't interested in having sex with him.

*sigh* I get angry on LS so I don't have to get angry or act angry IRL. Is that so hard for you to grasp?

Edited April 9, 2019 by Rotaglia

[pepperbird]

If you think she should see a therapist then push hard for that! She should be willing to consider what you want once in a while. Stop bending to please her every desire! Tell her you want therapy and she should go with you.

 

 

The op's wife could well benefit from counseling, but I doubt the OP would like the final result.

Edited April 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

A therapist cannot dictate that she have sex with you.

They can't??? Well what good are they, then? (Just kidding.)

[Rotaglia]

The op's wife could well benefit from counseling, but I doubt the OP would like the final result.

*groan* You mean the therapist would help my wife to conclude that it's okay to divorce me? That would be awful, of course ... but who wants to be married to somebody who genuinely doesn't want to be there (after thoroughly examining all of the issues and weighing them carefully)?