Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

[giotto]

op,

ask anyone who has been through everything your wife has been through. Not just with you, but with your children, the upheavals in your life, etc. Just like you, she has carried all that weight, plus more

Why?

 

Or maybe because it would be very expensive for her to divorce him...

Edited April 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[vla1120]

My psychiatrist has a marriage counselor that he recommends who uses the Gottman method. I will hang on to that name as it may come in handy.

 

My therapist used the Gottman method. It might have worked well, had both partners been willing implement the necessary changes. But, no.

[pepperbird]

Or maybe because it would be very expensive for her to divorce him...

One never knows...

 

 

Oddly enough, it might actually be cheaper. She may have to pay spousal and child support,. but just like most women, the judge would likely tell the op he has "X" amount of time to get himself a job and get on his own two feet, especially where his kids are grown ( he says, if I remember correctly,one is post secondary school now).

 

 

From the way the op paints his wife, she seems like someone who looks at a situation from a long term perspective. It could be she's doing the whole "once they leave the nest, I will too" routine, but I really don't think she is.

 

I think she's just tired. Mentally and physically tired.

[Wallysbears]

I think she's just tired also. Two kids (one with special needs?), a husband with a history of massive depressive episodes, a mother with dementia, and a business to run...

 

That's a lot on her shoulders.

[pepperbird]

I think she's just tired also. Two kids (one with special needs?), a husband with a history of massive depressive episodes, a mother with dementia, and a business to run...

 

She may well feel like if she drops one of those balls, the whole act will collapse.

[Rotaglia]

Putting myself in her shoes (and assuming I loved my husband unconditionally), I would probably sense that my husband's needs for emotional intimacy and sex are going to need to be met somehow and I would initiate a conversation with him on those two topics and not wait for him to bring them up again (especially since recent such discussions broke down and went essentially nowhere).

 

The other thing I think is important is what might be called “targeted reinforcement,” i.e., I can try to identify the areas where she most needs my love and support and focus my efforts there.

 

BTW, has anybody considered how tired I might be? All this typing on LS is worth at least a couple of hours on the Stairmaster, right (comment meant in jest, of course)?

Edited April 10, 2019 by Rotaglia

[Wallysbears]

assuming I loved my husband unconditionally

 

 

The entire concept of loving a spouse unconditionally is a fallacy in my mind.

 

I love my son unconditionally. He's the only person on the face of the planet that gets that sort of love.

 

My love for my husband? It very much IS conditional. And I love my husband and we have a great marriage.

 

The only love that I know that is unconditional is between mother/child. And even that reaches its breaking points where the parent may love but may need distance.

[Rotaglia]

The entire concept of loving a spouse unconditionally is a fallacy in my mind.

 

I love my son unconditionally. He's the only person on the face of the planet that gets that sort of love.

 

My love for my husband? It very much IS conditional. And I love my husband and we have a great marriage.

 

The only love that I know that is unconditional is between mother/child. And even that reaches its breaking points where the parent may love but may need distance.

That's interesting. You probably have a point there. Spousal love should be conditional, after all. Hmmm.

Maybe my wife gets unconditional love once all of my conditions are met. There, how's that? :-)

[preraph]

Rotaglia, you said above her love was conditional while yours was unconditional, but that's not true, though I do believe that's your ethic and how you want to be. To the contrary, you have a lot of resentment and swing back and forth like there's an angel on one shoulder and a devil on your other when writing about how you feel here.

 

You need to keep a tally each day of whether you're more happy or more miserable and act accordingly in deciding what to do.

[Rotaglia]

Rotaglia, you said above her love was conditional while yours was unconditional, but that's not true, though I do believe that's your ethic and how you want to be. To the contrary, you have a lot of resentment and swing back and forth like there's an angel on one shoulder and a devil on your other when writing about how you feel here.

 

You need to keep a tally each day of whether you're more happy or more miserable and act accordingly in deciding what to do.

I think you're reading too much into it. This space is merely an anonymous sounding board. My behavior and thinking in real life is a whole lot more consistent than this.

[Wallysbears]

That's interesting. You probably have a point there. Spousal love should be conditional, after all. Hmmm.

Maybe my wife gets unconditional love once all of my conditions are met. There, how's that? :-)

 

A poor attempt at humor?

 

No one in this thread has once suggested that you give your wife unconditional love.

 

But yet you expect it from her.

 

You're her spouse, not her child.

[preraph]

^ I'm sure of that, but what comes out of your mouth was first in your brain, so no reason to be in denial about that. It's good you are venting, though. Still, that resentment is there and at some point will have to be dealt with or you might implode. I'm glad you're restrained while at home though and hope for you that you can both talk more openly at some point about whether it can go on like this, because it does sound like it's unlikely to change much.

[Rotaglia]

A poor attempt at humor?

Yes.

No one in this thread has once suggested that you give your wife unconditional love.

That's correct; however, I have myself suggested it. See below.

But yet you expect it from her.

You're her spouse, not her child.

Actually, you're right about that (all kidding aside). I was not framing it correctly. A child gets unconditional love from his or her parent (ideally and hopefully); love for a spouse (or any other adult, for that matter) has to be conditional because if one spouse behaves in an objectionable way (e.g., abuse or neglect), that love can potentially be withdrawn or modified. I am not suggesting that my spouse has been abusive or neglectful; I am merely stating that this does happen in marriages in general, obviously.

 

My wife loves me in whatever way she choses. My preference is that she love me passionately. Sometimes the more lukewarm kind of love is what I actually receive. That's mostly okay but sometimes it bugs me a bit. After all, most relationships have an ardor gap, i.e., one partner is more into the one than the one is to the other. I accept that as the reality. Love is a fairly fluid thing and not terribly specific.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Rotaglia

[Rotaglia]

There is no unconditional love between you two - stop the denial. She has tons of conditions for you.

 

The marriage is sideways. You love her so much you sacrifice everything you want.

 

Meanwhile she works and you take care of the rest. Now she decides she wants nothing to do with you physically (and somewhat emotionally)... accept that. It IS your reality!

 

And it STILL looks like someone who is cheating!

 

But you just want to stick your head in the sand. Your M has been on a steady decline - you either expect a less than adequate union or you leave.

 

Stop trying to change her- she isn’t changing. And don’t change to playcate her any further - you’re losing your sense of self in all the crap she is dishing out!

 

You have bent down so far to please her that you can’t see things clearly.

 

Just do you. Ignore her needs. She is selfish and self centered.

I hear what you’re saying. Nobody is perfect, certainly not me and not my wife, either. A marriage is between two imperfect people. We have each been selfish at different times and for different reasons. The challenge before us is to forge a better marriage out of all of this. Call me an optimist.

[giotto]

Dude, she ISN’T making effort!

 

Quit being delusional. She isn’t into you. How can you make it better when she isn’t participating?

 

You are in it alone. She checked out almost two years ago.

 

That’s a fact. You either accept that you stay and feel alone or you end it and be alone knowing you have already been alone for almost two years.

 

I agree with the above. A wife who loves you and is attracted to you would make love to you. She is not, despite the fact that she knows she is making you suffer. What does that tell you? These are the bare facts. You are not seeing it. She might have her reasons, but she is not telling you what they are. Who behaves like that towards their husband? A person that they have married and are supposed to love? She should have the decency to tell you the reasons, why she has stopped having sex with you, so you can make an informed decision about your future.

[elaine567]

Love does not equal sex.

I believe many women love their husbands very deeply, but still do not want to have sex with them.

I believe to some women sex is like playing tennis, deciding to stop playing tennis with her husband has no bearing on her love for him, and to her mind nor does stopping having sex.

The two are entirely separate entities.

[Rotaglia]

Love does not equal sex.

I believe many women love their husbands very deeply, but still do not want to have sex with them.

I believe to some women sex is like playing tennis, deciding to stop playing tennis with her husband has no bearing on her love for him, and to her mind nor does stopping having sex.

The two are entirely separate entities.

Yes, I find this perfectly plausible. If this is how my wife feels, she really ought to say so.

[giotto]

Love does not equal sex.

I believe many women love their husbands very deeply, but still do not want to have sex with them.

I believe to some women sex is like playing tennis, deciding to stop playing tennis with her husband has no bearing on her love for him, and to her mind nor does stopping having sex.

The two are entirely separate entities.

 

No, love doesn't always equal sex... of course... but if you get married with the intention of not having sex, then don't get married, because many people get married with the impression that sex is part of the marriage... sex can stop, obviously, but a little "note" to your husband explaining why would be nice...

[Rotaglia]

I agree with the above. A wife who loves you and is attracted to you would make love to you. She is not, despite the fact that she knows she is making you suffer. What does that tell you? These are the bare facts. You are not seeing it. She might have her reasons, but she is not telling you what they are. Who behaves like that towards their husband? A person that they have married and are supposed to love? She should have the decency to tell you the reasons, why she has stopped having sex with you, so you can make an informed decision about your future.

Her response has been and will be, “I don’t know!”

My fear is that what she is really saying is “I want out of the marriage” but she lacks the courage to say so and fears the trauma and implications of divorce, so she feels stuck. So I may simply need to complete the sentence for her, sadly.

Love does not equal sex.

I believe many women love their husbands very deeply, but still do not want to have sex with them.

Correct. But if a woman loves a man she has been married to for 22 years and decides that sex is now difficult or impossible for her, it behooves her to share that information with her husband and perhaps to seek solutions. It should be the start of a conversation and a common effort to restore the emotional and physical intimacy that has been lost, not the end as in our case.

 

“Sex over. No discussion. Deal with it” is simply not appropriate for a relationship in which 23 years has been invested. We are not fourteen years old. She needs to show some maturity and an ability to conduct an adult conversation without stonewalling, crying, or becoming enraged (or at least not the entire time).

 

I can live for long periods without the physical act(s) of sex, but I don't want to be in a marriage in which we don't make love regularly. If I feel I am being made love to, it makes the physical sexlessness much more bearable. To me, making love occurs when one's partner cares so deeply for you and loves you so passionately that it's an experience similar to sex in its profundity and closeness but it's on a spiritual/emotional level in this instance.

 

Abruptly and unilaterally ending a couple's sex life with not so much as a word of discussion is neglectful and cruel. To continue refusing to engage sexually likewise without talking, reassuring, communicating with your partner is an overt act of marriage negation. Women are not ignorant or stupid; they know exactly what they are doing when they do these things, although they may not acknowledge it.

 

OTOH, it is becoming clear to me that my wife has a preference for non-verbal communication in our relationship, whereas I tend to prefer verbal communication. Perhaps if I can learn to convey my love and support for her in more non-verbal ways, I might be able to penetrate the wall that stands between us at the moment.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Rotaglia

[Blanco]

OTOH, it is becoming clear to me that my wife has a preference for non-verbal communication in our relationship, whereas I tend to prefer verbal communication. Perhaps if I can learn to convey my love and support for her in more non-verbal ways, I might be able to penetrate the wall that stands between us at the moment.

 

Go read The Five Love Languages. It sounds like even when things were going well, there was still a contrast in how you both showed your love for one another.

 

Having an awareness of these love languages will help, though it might only be a case where you can diagnose the issue without being able to implement solutions. It sounds like you're a words of affirmation and physical touch type of person, so you choose to show your love in those ways. Problem is, it sounds like your wife does not place a huge premium on these love languages. If that's the case, believe me that your bombarding her with verbal affection is probably almost repulsive to her at this point.

 

Again, what are you prepared to do if this is the new reality? You are going around in circles here, which is not unusual. But eventually, you have to decide what it's going to be and actually take action.

Edited April 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

If nothing else - the simple act of filing for divorce and having her served may prompt her to understand fully well she owes you a thorough conversation!

 

And if that conversation happens then you may we’ll know if she intends for things to end. OR the conversation may be capable of exploring how you can both compromise to grow from the state you are currently in.

 

Either way - it would get you out of the limbo you have been in.

I must politely disagree with you on that point. This is not a game. One does not file for divorce as a tactic or to stimulate conversation; one files for divorce if one wishes no longer to be married. Filing will declare my intention to dissolve the marriage, not to continue it. My wife will interpret that action as precisely that.

 

If my goal is a conversation, I feel like I should ask for a conversation.

Your bombarding her with verbal affection is probably almost repulsive to her at this point.

Yes, you are exactly right! That is why I have suspended the romantic pursuit of my wife for now (even though I hate doing that). IMO, a lot of people fall into that trap when their spouse looks like they might bolt—they pour on the affection, thinking it will eventually change their partner's mind. Unfortunately, from what I have read, that is not a good technique in the sort of scenario we find ourselves in.

 

This is not the movies. I am not Lloyd Dobbler in Say Anything. John Cusack's character is creepy anyway if you think about it, a total stalker.

 

I seem to getting the best results by being more of the strong, silent type (even though that entails effort). As she has indicated, she needs me to be her rock of quietly powerful masculinity. My aim is to be supportive in ways that she truly needs. I do not pursue. I do not initiate relationship-themed discussions. I do not discuss the future of our marriage. I do still say “I love you” when appropriate and we do still hug and kiss (sometimes the embraces and kisses even have that tinge of the erotic, but I don't follow up with any further sexual gestures for now and I try not to swoon even though I am frequently aroused. This really might end up killing me.) even though some people advise not doing that at this phase.

 

I am trying to create situations where she is going to feel comfortable talking, but that is clearly a long-term project in this case. It's okay to have fun with my wife and make her life, right? I don't want her to feel like I am trying to punish her. In fact, I am not driven by a particular outcome. I am not trying to make her want to have sex with me (really!). What I am trying to do is to project strength, be the rock, make her feel comfortable and safe. I am asserting and living my values in this relationship. I will not allow my behavior to reflect negativity.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Rotaglia

[BettyDraper]

I must politely disagree with you on that point. This is not a game. One does not file for divorce as a tactic or to stimulate conversation; one files for divorce if one wishes no longer to be married. Filing will declare my intention to dissolve the marriage, not to continue it. My wife will interpret that action as precisely that.

 

If my goal is a conversation, I feel like I should ask for a conversation.

 

It's clear that your wife isn't interested in a conversation though.

You have already established that. What is your next move?

Edited April 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Rotaglia]

It's clear that your wife isn't interested in a conversation though.

You have already established that. What is your next move?

My next move is to work the program. What seems to be effective is projecting what we might call quiet masculine strength.

 

I am not initiating conversations about the relationship right now. I am focusing on consistency and dependability (and anticipating needs without always “checking in” with her). I am taking stressful things and decisions off of her plate as much as possible. And I am providing safety and love.

 

I already see a difference. The warmth is growing. The hand-holding is more frequent. We are more relaxed. The kisses are sweeter and more passionate. The conversation will come at the right time. I believe the sex will eventually return as well.

 

The romantic pursuit of my wife, the ardent professions of love are suspended for now as they do not help the cause at this point.

 

Meanwhile, I am working on myself, my work, my health, our family. I believe in this marriage and its ultimate success but I am not depending on any particular outcome. I am not doing these things to make my wife love me or to make her have sex with me. I am creating loving spaces in which the marriage can regrow itself.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Rotaglia

[giotto]

I already see a difference. The warmth is growing. The hand-holding is more frequent. We are more relaxed. The kisses are sweeter and more passionate. The conversation will come at the right time. I believe the sex will eventually return as well.

 

No, it won't. She is warmer towards you because she thinks you have accepted the status quo (no sex) and she is happy. I could do all of that with my wife. She told me we could cuddle, kiss, hold hands, but no sex. That's where her red line is. That's where your wife's red line is. Don't fool yourself.

[elaine567]

No, it won't. She is warmer towards you because she thinks you have accepted the status quo (no sex) and she is happy. I could do all of that with my wife. She told me we could cuddle, kiss, hold hands, but no sex. That's where her red line is. That's where your wife's red line is. Don't fool yourself.

 

I tend to agree, this does not seem to be a case where burning resentment and anger has led the wife to shut off the sex.

This seems to be more of a case of

"Sex is now off the menu for reasons I do not really want to talk about, but let's just get on with loving each other in other ways.

We don't need sex.

Our love, our life together, our kids etc. - our whole marriage transcends sex surely??"