Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

[elaine567]

she keeps saying hurtful things that have left me feeling awful.

 

The toughest change though is the painful things she says to me...

Forgive me if you have already answered this, but what are these hurtful, painful things she says to you?

It may give us an insight into how she truly feels.

[pepperbird]

Honestly? I am beginning to entertain doubts myself given the ordeal her stonewalling his created for me for the last year-and-a-half. Even supposing she does want to resume the marriage, can I trust her with my heart?

 

 

 

 

Can she trust you with hers? I'm asking because the more you write, the more you are seeing this as her problem, her fault, her issue.

 

It's not.

 

 

 

A ways back you lashed out when people were bringing up your past mental illness as a possible issue for her. The gist of it was that you're well now, so she should move on. Never mind how it hurt her.

 

You also say you were hospitalized twice for depression but lambaste your wife for not seeing you as cured. In her shoes, I would also be walking on eggshells, especially with the "flare" rate for major depressive disorder being over 50 percent. I fully expect she's waiting for the other shoe to drop. I would too. It would be no different if it was cancer, diabetes or heart disease.

 

I know that may sound really unfair to you, but put yourself in her shoes. If the roles were reversed, can you really say "relapse" wouldn't be in the back of your mind? If you say |"no", then you're either on a fool's errand or lying to yourself.

 

Add to this that you may well have said some extremely cruel and unkind things to her when you were ill. That's really common, and not your fault. That doesn't take the sting away though.

 

Have you and your wife ( or just you) ever attended a support group for couples where one partner has a chronic illness? If not, you really should. I think it could really help you both a lot. I went to one with my husband after I was diagnosed with the chronic illness that will end my life. ( a long ways away, I hope, so long as my immune system stays shut down:laugh:). I had no real idea how difficult it can be for a spouse of someone with any chronic illness to cope until that night. One of the members, a big guy who looked like he could knock down a tree with a touch of his pinky finger was sobbing over how helpless he felt in the face of his wife's cancer. When someone asked if he talked to her about it, his response was along the lines of he didn't feel right about doing that because she was already carrying such a heavy load. She was sick, god damn it, he was healthy. how could he add to what she was already facing?

[Rotaglia]

Forgive me if you have already answered this, but what are these hurtful, painful things she says to you?

It may give us an insight into how she truly feels.

Already answered, but here you go:

1. After a year of no sex, I pressed her to tell me what was going on. She became tearful and said I should leave her and find another woman who could give me the love I deserve. I hugged her and said that I wasn't going anywhere, that whatever problems we have can be worked out and that I love her and I don't want anybody else. But nothing changed and she remained shut down.
   
2. I made a sexual advance about six months later and she growled that, “I thought I made it clear that we are not having sex right now.” I very reasonably said, “Okay, fine. But we’re a married couple. Isn’t there something we can share sexually? Anything at all?” She got mad and headed downstairs to sleep. I went to bed in our bedroom but got lonely and went down to ask her to return, which she did. I began to apologize and she stopped me from apologizing. But she wouldn't tell me any new information I could use to improve the situation.
   
3. Some months later, I inquired as to what was bothering her and she said she was ambivalent about the relationship and she didn't know what she wanted. She followed that up by threatening separation if I couldn't handle that. I probably should have called her bluff but I didn't.
   
4. Recently, I was trying to tell her I wanted to work to improve the relationship with some very simple steps. I suggest marriage counseling. She said no, she won't do that because “it leads to divorce.” This struck as rather absurd but I let the comment stand.
   
5. I have sometimes mentioned a need to re-connect with her and spend time together. Sometimes when I say things like that (e.g., in a text message), she doesn't reply (which is fine, but it still sort of hurts).
   
6. She often makes me feel like the only person in the marriage.
   
7. Every day that goes by when we aren't connecting emotionally or sexually feels like rejection to me, however passive its form may take.
   

[Rotaglia]

@pepperbird I accept whatever ramifications my past (current?) mental illness has for our relationship. If the fact of my past depression makes it impossible for my wife to be married to me in the present, that sucks but she should say so. If she does want to be my wife fully but there are issues, fine—let's work on those. If she has trouble seeing me as anything other than a looney-tunes, unmanly, depressive psychopath ... well, I guess I'm truly screwed.

 

I cannot address issues she will not examine and will not name. I am only human. I also think it would behoove us to not reopen the wounds of the past. I have moved on from the depression, so why can't she?

 

Whatever it is, for Heaven's sake, let's hear it already! I cannot solve a problem that she will not or cannot describe, name, and bring forth. I am not a mind-reader. That don't teach that to patients in the hospital, really they don't!

 

Once I was afraid of what she might say. Once I could be hurt by it. We have been through too much now. I am inoculated. I am impervious, invulnerable. Come at me, bruh. Let me have it. At least that way I will have something to work with.

 

I think the aid of mental health professional would be a good idea, but she is not receptive to that idea, so where does that leave me? I have no magic wand I can wave. Give me something I can actually do that is realistic.

[Rotaglia]

@pepperbird How about this: Maybe my wife doubts the marriage because of my past struggles with mental health and that's the main issue. I don't like it but I accept it. Will she give us a chance to work on the issue, or is that the way it is forever unalterably?

 

If guilt is what is keeping her in the marriage, can her guilt be relieved so she is free to do the necessary work?

Edited April 26, 2019 by Rotaglia

[Wallysbears]

If an addict stops drinking or drugging, does that mean their spouse has to immediately go back to trusting them fully again?

 

Addiction is a disease as much as depression is.

 

I have no idea what your wife’s issue is...but I’m going to guess sex isn’t it.

[BaileyB]

A

It is really so much simpler than we are making it. I want to know from my wife's point of view what is preventing us from having a fully restored marriage. Specifically regarding sex, I want to be very clear and specific about what that entails in a "fully restored marriage":

1. No physical sexual act is ever required (although they are desirable). 100% consent is mandatory and consent is never assumed or automatic;
   
2. However, each of us considers the sexual wellbeing of the other to be a high priority;
   
3. When physical sex is difficult or impossible, we each still wish to feel desired;
   
4. We will take care not to shame or reject each other. We will practice sexual kindness and appreciate what sex means and does not mean for each partner;
   
5. We will attempt to meet each other where the other partner is in sexual terms;
   
6. We will try to accommodate each other's sexual needs or non-needs;
   
7. There needs to be a reasonable probability that when our emotional and relational problems are resolved, a normal sex life will resume.
   
8. If one partner knows that he or she has no intention of ever resuming a sex life with the other, it is his or her responsibility to own that and say so. Failing to disclose that is potentially fatal to the marriage.
   

 

You can make all the lists that you want - itemizing exactly what you expect and what you want from your marriage...

 

It is really so much simpler than we are making it. I want to know from my wife's point of view what is preventing us from having a fully restored marriage.

 

She does not want to restore your marriage. It is, how she wants it to be right now.

Edited April 26, 2019 by BaileyB

[preraph]

Rotaglia says: "But she wouldn't tell me any new information I could use to improve the situation."

 

Because she isn't open to improving the situation. She isn't going to have any type sex whatever with you. She's made it clear. I'm sorry that's the case, but you keep thinking you should get yet another shot at changing her mind. She's not open to negotiations on that. She's done with that and she's been very clear about it. She's not even offering excuses, just telling you it's not going to happen and that she doesn't even want any more talk about it.

 

Again, circling over and over, it's just up to you, I guess, to live without sex from her or leave. There's no third alternative, except the one she suggested which is you're free to have sex elsewhere. Now, I know that's easier said than done except with prostitutes.

[BaileyB]

Rotaglia says: "But she wouldn't tell me any new information I could use to improve the situation."

 

Because she isn't open to improving the situation. She isn't going to have any type sex whatever with you. She's made it clear. I'm sorry that's the case, but you keep thinking you should get yet another shot at changing her mind. She's not open to negotiations on that. She's done with that and she's been very clear about it. She's not even offering excuses, just telling you it's not going to happen and that she doesn't even want any more talk about it..

 

I agree completely with preraph and pepperbird. Your wife is probably tuning you out because you exhaust her. All this discussion and you are still making lists about what you expect and hope for your sex life. It doesn’t change the simple truth and the sad reality that you have no sex life. Your partner does not want sex. She does not want to talk about it, negotiate, or compromise in any way. She is not open to improving the situation - in her opinion, there is no situation. Things are exactly how she wants them, right now.

 

Rotaglia, you are like a dog with a bone. You are just unable or unwilling to accept the reality of the situation. This discussion is akin to a child who asks his parents “why, why, why...” The parent eventually gets tired of the discussion and says “because, I said so...” End of discussion. You are asking, “why, why, why...” and your wife has answered - “Because I said so.” Enough.

 

ETA, I have no doubt that you will respond to say that you believe your wife should communicate with you and that she should have some responsibility to consider your sexual and emotional needs. My response would be - I believe that North Korea should support the basic human rights of it’s citizens. Just because I want it to happen doesn’t mean that it will...

 

I’m sorry, I know acceptance is a process and I don’t feel like you are asking for the moon. But at a certain point, you will need to accept the reality of the situation and stop wishing/hoping for something that just simply, isn’t going to happen...

Edited April 26, 2019 by BaileyB

[Rotaglia]

As I see it, the only conceivable path to a fully reconstituted marriage with my wife is through the two of us. It might not happen as quickly as I might like. Tonight I got to talk to her just a little and we agreed that our marriage was on an improving arc. I don't need any pledges to return to sex right now. All I want right now is for my wife to enjoy stress relief, comfort, affection, etc. whatever she needs.

 

I will continue to project quiet masculine strength. My new job seems great (they are taking it easy on me at the beginning and that's just fine with me; the hard work is ahead). I am having a blast with my music. My kids are gems. I adore my mother-in-law. And my wife, for all the grief recently, is a fabulous person and I genuinely love her.

 

I am not outcome-dependent. I am not afraid anymore. My blessings are legion.

[giotto]

[*]Some months later, I inquired as to what was bothering her and she said she was ambivalent about the relationship and she didn't know what she wanted.

 

Well, you have the reason... there. She doesn't love you anymore. It's a nice way of telling you...

 

You are now trying to convince yourself that your life is great and who cares about sex? But you do care and it will come back to bite you...

 

Carry on like this and you will be detaching. You are already roommates... she has you wrapped around her little finger.

[bathtub-row]

Well, you have the reason... there. She doesn't love you anymore. It's a nice way of telling you...

 

You are now trying to convince yourself that your life is great and who cares about sex? But you do care and it will come back to bite you...

 

Carry on like this and you will be detaching. You are already roommates... she has you wrapped around her little finger.

 

Just because a person feels they don’t love someone anymore doesn’t mean it can’t be rekindled. How many people in marriages fall in and out of love, and then back in again? Marriage cannot be based on this “love” or “in love” feeling all the time. That’s just plain immature if people think those feelings are consistent throughout, say, a 60-yr marriage. I think it goes way beyond “love” or “in love”.

[thefooloftheyear]

Just because a person feels they don’t love someone anymore doesn’t mean it can’t be rekindled. How many people in marriages fall in and out of love, and then back in again? Marriage cannot be based on this “love” or “in love” feeling all the time. That’s just plain immature if people think those feelings are consistent throughout, say, a 60-yr marriage. I think it goes way beyond “love” or “in love”.

 

Yep....That usually happens when they go out and realize that they don't have any other options....or they are too afraid of change....Not really the best way to reconcile, IMO...

 

I think its really a very rare scenario where people fall out of love and then back in...Usually when that ship leaves the port.....its not coming back.....Or the other more common scenario....They mistook love for simply being horny or lonely...

 

TFY

[BaileyB]

Just because a person feels they don’t love someone anymore doesn’t mean it can’t be rekindled. How many people in marriages fall in and out of love, and then back in again? Marriage cannot be based on this “love” or “in love” feeling all the time. That’s just plain immature if people think those feelings are consistent throughout, say, a 60-yr marriage. I think it goes way beyond “love” or “in love”.

 

No, you can expect someone to be “in love” at all times during a marriage. Although, I think most will still have feelings of “love” for their partner consistently. But, at the same time, it is important to hear what she is saying. She is ambivilant about the relationship. This actually describes her behavior in the marriage perfectly - she is content to stay married and continue the status quo, but she is not bothered by the status of her relationship in such a way that she is invested or willing to work on improving the marriage or even have sex with her husband, for that matter.

 

If you listen to the wise words of Dr Phil He often states that a marriage is done when individuals have reached a place of ambivalence or indifference. She is there now... only time will tell which way she will go, or if she will continue to seek the status quo (to maintain the family unit and financial status/quality of life). If the past is any indicator of the future, she will be either content to continue with the status quo for a while or eventually end it. I don’t see her reinvesting in the marriage after all this time, although anything is possible. When a woman reaches a place of indifference and has settled into a sexless marriage, it is difficult to come back from that...

Edited April 27, 2019 by BaileyB

[giotto]

That’s just plain immature if people think those feelings are consistent throughout, say, a 60-yr marriage. I think it goes way beyond “love” or “in love”.

 

Thank you for calling me immature... I would say I'm a "realistic" person. As someone else said above, it's a rare occasion indeed. It can happen, sure, but the OP's case seems a bit desperate to me.

[giotto]

If the past is any indicator of the future, she will be either content to continue with the status quo for a while or eventually end it. I don’t see her reinvesting in the marriage after all this time, although anything is possible. When a woman reaches a place of indifference and has settled into a sexless marriage, it is difficult to come back from that...

 

I agree with the above.

[Marc878]

From what I've seen once they check out they rarely check back in.

 

But everyone likes a good fairy tale

[Blanco]

I do think that over the course of a long-term relationship, love isn't this static, constant emotion. It peaks and dips over time, and not always for specific reasons. I buy into the idea that once you've reached the end of the honeymoon phase, love is very much a daily choice we make. It's not so much that we should have to psych ourselves up to feel love for our partner, but just the fact that even good relationships take effort and regular maintenance, which can't happen if you're passive.

 

In the OP's case, I agree that it appears that his wife is just tapped out. We don't know the specific reason(s), but she decided to throw in the towel a while ago even though she has remained married on paper. I get where the OP is coming from with his wish to recapture the love they once had, but it sounds like his wife isn't interested in that at all. I don't think there's any coming back from that. In most cases, when that romantic love is gone and not just dormant, it's gone.

 

I've never been married, but was in a relationship that started to take on some similarities to OP's case. Sex was not an issue, but I wasn't satisfied with the lack of intimacy. She was OK with it, because that's just how she operates. There was a disconnect and it only really became an issue when I kept trying to sit her down and talk about how I felt. It was like smacking my head against a wall. I kept thinking if I articulated it a certain way, eventually she would get it. In retrospect, I see that she didn't "get" it because she didn't view it as a problem, much in the way that OP's wife doesn't view the absence of sex as a problem.

 

I eventually exhausted her with these talks to the point where it eroded our ability to properly communicate and solve other conflicts that would arise. Through this all, she never presented the idea of splitting up. She was content to keep things as they were, even though she knew I wasn't. Who knows how long it would've continued on like that, but eventually, I couldn't take it anymore and finally ended it. I have no doubt that we would've stayed together for many more years had I not left.

 

Point is, if you're the one unsatisfied with the relationship, you shouldn't wait indefinitely for the other person to hit the nuke button.

[elaine567]

The difference in this situation as opposed to some others is that the wife has not completely checked out.

Kisses and cuddles and hugs are still on the table, it is only sex that has been withdrawn.

[BaileyB]

The difference in this situation as opposed to some others is that the wife has not completely checked out.

Kisses and cuddles and hugs are still on the table, it is only sex that has been withdrawn.

 

Agree. There is some hope that there is some feeling there. However, what she is doing may well be considered a bare minimum, required to keep her marriage and her family together.

 

Point is, if you're the one unsatisfied with the relationship, you shouldn't wait indefinitely for the other person to hit the nuke button.

 

Insightful.

[pepperbird]

The difference in this situation as opposed to some others is that the wife has not completely checked out.

Kisses and cuddles and hugs are still on the table, it is only sex that has been withdrawn.

 

 

could be the sex wasn't doing it for her. if it was, why would she stop?

Edited April 27, 2019 by pepperbird

[Veronica73]

If you listen to the wise words of Dr Phil He often states that a marriage is done when individuals have reached a place of ambivalence or indifference.

I have to disagree with Dr. Phil. The marriage may very well be done when individuals, or one of the individuals has reached a state of indifference. But I see ambivalence as very different. It could describe somebody who has very strong feelings (both positive and negative), but they are in conflict. So if the cause of the negative feelings can be identified and resolved, the marriage could probably be rescued. Indifference is when you just don’t care one way or the other. So while the Rotalgia’s wife may very well be indifferent, I don’t think it is the same as ambivalent. I think ambivalent has more of a chance of reconciliation. (But I’m not going to get into specifics about his case, because frankly, I’m exhausted just by reading this thread. It’s mostly the same thing over and over, and then this bizarre shift in attitude with seemingly no explanation as to what changed.)

 

I do think that over the course of a long-term relationship, love isn't this static, constant emotion. It peaks and dips over time, and not always for specific reasons. I buy into the idea that once you've reached the end of the honeymoon phase, love is very much a daily choice we make. It's not so much that we should have to psych ourselves up to feel love for our partner, but just the fact that even good relationships take effort and regular maintenance, which can't happen if you're passive.

I agree 100%

[Rotaglia]

I’m exhausted just by reading this thread. It’s mostly the same thing over and over, and then this bizarre shift in attitude with seemingly no explanation as to what changed.

Bizarre how?

 

I think one of the problems with the word “love,” whether used as a verb or as a noun, is not terribly specific. When some says they love someone else, it can mean any number of things and may not include wanting to be married to someone.

[Veronica73]

Bizarre how?

 

I think one of the problems with the word “love,” whether used as a verb or as a noun, is not terribly specific. When some says they love someone else, it can mean any number of things and may not include wanting to be married to someone.

 

I don’t know. It seems like at some points you’re talking almost like a child who isn’t getting what he wants and not listening to what anyone is telling you, and then talking about how sorry your wife will be when she has to give up half of your assets and all of that, and then the next minute you’re talking about how you’re not separating and you love your wife and you are going to project your male strength. Maybe it’s just me, but...you seem to be all over the place. And that is fine. There’s nothing wrong with that (on a forum). Maybe you’re ambivalent (which I think is fine). It’s just a little confusing to me because it seems like you don’t really explain your dramatic shifts. But that’s fine, and I’m sorry that I was critical. It’s your thread, and if you find it helpful, that’s what matters.

[preraph]

Agree. There is some hope that there is some feeling there. However, what she is doing may well be considered a bare minimum, required to keep her marriage and her family together.

 

 

 

Insightful.

 

Or might even be to set a good example for the kids if she's hyperaware that she's role modeling for them.