preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. You don't think couples sometimes have sex when one or both partners is not 100% into it but proceeds out of caring for the other? not once someone has reached the point of not wanting to have it at all with that person. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Ayayay, this is so weak and needy. There is a HUGE imbalance in power and you just reinforced it.Aw, crap. Really? :-| not once someone has reached the point of not wanting to have sex at all with that person.That's correct. Not at that point. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Is it not possible to be in a loving sexual relationship with someone in which little or no physical sex takes place but the sexuality and sexual needs of each partner are still honored, appreciated, and considered with tenderness? Maybe there is a kind of middle-aged love that is sexually validating even when it can't be physical or does not feel quite right physically? Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Sure, but not if one partner has reached the point they are just turned off or repulsed by doing so. Now, I don't know what her situation is. I only know it's been 18 months and that she still kisses you. I know that if she wanted to have any type of sex, that she is more than clear that you would want that and she isn't a shy school girl and has been married to you forever, and she knows all she would have to do is climb aboard. Like you, I find it kind of puzzling why she kisses but nothing else, because you do say it's sometimes good romantic kisses. So I'm not saying she's not a puzzle. I'm just saying the best evidence is she no longer wants to have sex with you but doesn't mind kissing. In other words, I'm saying, "It is what it is." Don't know why it is. Based on the odds, I don't expect it to turn around or that there's anything you can say to make that happen. Does she kiss you in all different situations, such as when you're alone, when you're in bed, or mostly when the kids are around or in public or as she's leaving for work? Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 My wife has told me she needs me to be her rock. Although I did not say so aloud (and I have been focusing on projecting quiet, masculine leadership in our relationship), I reacted internally by saying, “What have I been for the last 23 years? A pebble????” Some women are flat-out crazy. This isn't a knock on your character, but if you've suffered from some mental health issues over the years, it's unlikely you've been able to really be a rock for her. Even during your "normal" times, I'm sure there's always been the lingering concern for her that the next episode might be around the corner. It's hard to instill much trust in a situation like that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Does she kiss you in all different situations, such as when you're alone, when you're in bed, or mostly when the kids are around or in public or as she's leaving for work?Pleasant little pecks on the lips are expected for hello, good-bye, and good night. Those still happen. But the kind of lingering, romantic kisses accompanied by tight hugs and accompanied by murmurs of appreciation, those strike me as at least somewhat sexual/romantic in nature. Last time when it happened (the night before last), I sighed loudly and said, “Wow, I sure needed that” and she said, “Yeah, me too.” Then we kissed again. Rather nice. This isn't a knock on your character, but if you've suffered from some mental health issues over the years, it's unlikely you've been able to really be a rock for her. Even during your "normal" times, I'm sure there's always been the lingering concern for her that the next episode might be around the corner. It's hard to instill much trust in a situation like that.Great. So I will never be enough for her then. Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Maybe I've just known the wrong women, but I feel like asking a woman for oral sex after she's explicitly told me she doesn't want to have sex would feel like asking for a $5000 loan after that person declines to lend you $20. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Pleasant little pecks on the lips are expected for hello, good-bye, and good night. Those still happen. But the kind of lingering, romantic kisses accompanied by tight hugs and accompanied by murmurs of appreciation, those strike me as at least somewhat sexual/romantic in nature. Last time when it happened (the night before last), I sighed loudly and said, “Wow, I sure needed that” and she said, “Yeah, me too.” Then we kissed again. Rather nice. Great. So I will never be enough for her then. Probably not. I know that's not what you want to hear, but having known some women who hung in there with a man who dealt with mental health issues, there comes a point where they may still care deeply for them, but they're so emotionally worn away that pretty much any romantic feelings are also eroded. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Not to get too personal, but that last one, didn't you say that happened out in public? I'm wondering (and forgive me) if she's putting on a show for others trying to look like the happy couple or if she gives you those better kisses in private with no kids around and it's just you and her. Of course, the other reason she might do it in public is so it can't lead to more. But does she do passionate kisses in private too or just the pecks? Seems like you said she gave you a good one in your kitchen or somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) @preraph In this case it was in the kitchen out of view of my daughter and mother-in-law. We had to whisper. It carried the whiff of the illicit, heh-heh. they're so emotionally worn away that pretty much any romantic feelings are also eroded.Okay, so if that's the case, I could see my wife feeling that way but not being willing to say so because in her mind that makes her a "bad person." But it doesn't. It just makes her human. Now the question is whether she is willing to work to restore the romantic connection with me (either with me solely or also with a therapist) or is this simply how it has to be, in which case I will probably go crazy or have to seek a divorce. Edited April 30, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 But granting all of my imperfections and shortcomings, isn't it possible to be good enough so a normal married relationship, including sex, can proceed? Maybe we aren't there yet but could get there with the correct work? Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I guess she considers kissing "safe" or whatever, odd as it may be, because as you've recently written, last time you brought up sex, she said she thought you'd already established that was off the table. So she really expects the kissing not to lead to the suggestion of sex, which seems naive... Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Maybe I've just known the wrong women, but I feel like asking a woman for oral sex after she's explicitly told me she doesn't want to have sex would feel like asking for a $5000 loan after that person declines to lend you $20. This exactly. Wishful thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Next time she and I talk, I will ask her explicitly about the situation. Will she undertake to restore the sexual bond between us, however hard it will be and however long it will take ... or is it a waste of time? It's a reasonable question. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 But granting all of my imperfections and shortcomings, isn't it possible to be good enough so a normal married relationship, including sex, can proceed? Maybe we aren't there yet but could get there with the correct work? Not if she's just no longer feeling sexual toward you, but this is why I keep mulling over the kissing. Makes no sense to me. Of course, some mothers actually do kiss their kids on the mouth, which seems like a mistake. So back when she told you sex is now off the table, in what context did she say it? Were you being romantic and she said, We're not doing that anymore?" Did she sit you down and say, "We're not having sex anymore because I'm not feeling it?" Did you have an argument and it came out of that? Did she say "I'm in menopause, so...."? You keep saying she said no reason, but most people on here think she did give you reasons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 But granting all of my imperfections and shortcomings, isn't it possible to be good enough so a normal married relationship, including sex, can proceed? Maybe we aren't there yet but could get there with the correct work? Maybe. No relationship is identical. I just can share what I've observed and heard from people who have been with someone who struggles with mental health issues. Again, this is just me speculating. Your mental health issues could not even be the real issue here. I just know that it takes an unbelievable toll on the other person which cannot be understated. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 I am fine with working through relationship issues stemming from my mental health struggles, reassuring my wife that I am receiving appropriate treatment, etc. However, it is not right that I should be perpetually punished for something that is not my fault. If my wife finds it difficult or impossible to have sex with me in the present, she has my loving understanding and I hope she would undertake a seeking of a solution, be it individual therapy for her, couples’ therapy, et al. Doing so would send a powerful signal that there is a problem to be addressed. OTOH, failing to do so (esp. after eighteen painful months) would be very hurtful to me and harmful to the marriage. At some point, the statute of limitations on this b•••s••t should expire so we can get on with our lives. I am tired of thinking about this all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I'm sure it's not punishment but lack of desire. So... Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I don't think she's maliciously trying to punish you. I can see how you'd feel like you're being punished, but at the same time, I doubt she's sitting there thinking of how she can extend this torment for you. From what you've said, she's been pretty clear about what she doesn't want (sex) and it's you who finds this answer unacceptable while being unwilling to do the one thing that can end this torment for you (divorce). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) What if she is depressed? I have many possible compassionate responses to that. She could be depressed (i.e., at a reduced level of mental function) because of a combination of overwork, family obligations, aging and menopause, lack of me-time, even lack of sex. And I can respond to that as a loving husband should—with warmth, with nurturing, attentiveness, affection, taking tasks off her plate, etc. I know divorce is an option but for me it is an absolute last resort. Edited April 30, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 She doesn't sound depressed from what you've described. She sounds like someone who's probably emotionally spent and, for reasons we aren't clear on, just isn't interested in sex with you any longer. I get that divorce is a last resort for you, but like I said earlier, if you're the one who has a problem with the relationship, you cannot wait indefinitely for the other person to hit the nuke button. It seems like she's at least content to maintain things as they are, so you have to ask yourself at what point you make the decision if this is the new normal for your relationship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Fine. When she gets back from her trip I will ask her if she insists on a forever-sexless marriage period end of story and if she says yes then I will tell her I have no choice but to consider filing for divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 No, you don't tell her that you "might have to consider filing for divorce." You tell her that you will file for divorce. The "consider" makes your statement sound more like a last-ditch thinly-veiled threat, even if that's not how you mean it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I just texted my wife with the following message: “Honey, can I ask you something? When you and I talk, do you feel like I do a good job of really listening intently to you and that I make and effort to truly hear what you are trying to convey? Do you ever feel like I am not really getting the essence of your point?” Geeze. I suspect your wife wants a man/husband not a wife. No wonder she's turned off. You should take a step back and evaluate yourself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Yeah, don't say anything you won't follow through with. That just makes it sound like an ultimatum,and she will call your bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
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