Blanco Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 She failed to address her total shutdown of our sex life for a year before I finally confronted her. She failed to practice kindness concerning my ongoing sexual needs. She shamed me for that. She nursed an ambivalence about our relationship but failed to disclose it or give me a chance to address it. When prodded to explain, she threatened me with separation. Basically, I have not been treated as a equal partner in this relationship on several fronts. I have been made to think that these were ME problems that were exclusively mine instead of WE problems that we as a couple would tackle together. Meanwhile, she took for granted everything I continued to do (in non-sexual areas of the relationship). But looking back on it, this was probably a necessary growth experience for each of us as individuals and as a couple and we will be stronger for it. I had a role to play in all of this—I let her walk all over me and I failed to hold her accountable as I should have. So that's on me. However, I think we have a reasonable shot at resolving these issues. Recovering sexual desire in middle age through menopause is very challenging, but if she could show the effort (apart from results) it would mean a lot to me. I'm not sure where to even begin. She's not without blame here, but it seems like your lone issue is connected in some form or fashion to her not wanting to have sex with you. That's it. She has stood by you through your psychological issues; been the breadwinner that has afforded you a life of comfort and the flexibility to not only pursue a hobby as a vocation, but fund the accompanying pricey equipment of that hobby. She has, by your own admission, remained a good companion and partner outside of her non-interest in having sex with you. I'm not seeing how she has "walked all over" you. She doesn't sound verbally or emotionally abusive or even that critical of you from what you've shared. I would not be comfortable with the total withdraw of sex, but if it were that important to me, I would hopefully face reality and divorce so that I could find sexual companionship without the stigma of cheating. I don't think it's a haphazard thing to say that so long as she's willing to stay married, you will not be going anywhere. You will live a life of steady resentment and seething toward your wife's continued absence in the bedroom, but you will not abandon your comfortable home or lifestyle. And that's fine. But it's better to accept that reality rather than live in this fantasyland where you're somehow going to coax her into not only wanting you sexually again, but to alter core aspects of her being to suit your needs. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I'm not sure where to even begin. She's not without blame here, but it seems like your lone issue is connected in some form or fashion to her not wanting to have sex with you. That's it. She has stood by you through your psychological issues; been the breadwinner that has afforded you a life of comfort and the flexibility to not only pursue a hobby as a vocation, but fund the accompanying pricey equipment of that hobby. She has, by your own admission, remained a good companion and partner outside of her non-interest in having sex with you. I'm not seeing how she has "walked all over" you. She doesn't sound verbally or emotionally abusive or even that critical of you from what you've shared. I would not be comfortable with the total withdraw of sex, but if it were that important to me, I would hopefully face reality and divorce so that I could find sexual companionship without the stigma of cheating. I don't think it's a haphazard thing to say that so long as she's willing to stay married, you will not be going anywhere. You will live a life of steady resentment and seething toward your wife's continued absence in the bedroom, but you will not abandon your comfortable home or lifestyle. And that's fine. But it's better to accept that reality rather than live in this fantasyland where you're somehow going to coax her into not only wanting you sexually again, but to alter core aspects of her being to suit your needs. Excellent post. R, you cannot make your wife do anything. You cannot demand that she be intimate with you in any way. Why can't YOU make the appointment for a marriage counselor? Your wife probably going to do it so you are likely waiting for Godot. Your inaction and resentment are only putting you in a maddening headspace. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) I was wondering why you don’t just make the marriage counseling appointment as well. I thought you had a conversation and she said that she was open to it. So it seemed like there was progress between the two of you and you could actually communicate WITH her, instead of focusing all this energy on this thread and in your own head. You even commented earlier, that it took her...what...a year or something to address the lack of sex? I can’t remember the exact words, but it’s like you were just sitting there simmering, ...waiting for her to address it, (all the while posting on here going back and forth.) I think you should just make the damn appointment for the two of you and talk to a professional. Edit-not that you have been posting here for an entire year...but still... Edit 2: here it is- “She failed to address her total shutdown of our sex life for a year before I finally confronted her.“ And now you are going to just wait for her to make the marriage counseling appointment? After she said she was open to going? Just make it yourself. Edited May 10, 2019 by Veronica73 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 regaining a sex life in midlife through lubrication and communication. That made me laugh... My wife doesn't do either... OP, you are still at the early stages and it's understandable you are trying, sometimes a bit too hard (no pun intended). As I said before, don't put her under pressure. It will only have the opposite effect. I've been there and I hope your wife will come around. If not, you can divorce her or stay longer for your daughter. I'm mourning the end of marriage right now. It's a hard thing to accept. If that happens, you will have to remember it's for the best. Fairy tales don't last forever, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) And his story isn’t the same as yours. Edit- waiting for her to make the marriage counseling appointment doesn’t come across as “quiet, masculine strength”. It’s passive. Edited May 10, 2019 by Veronica73 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 And his story isn’t the same as yours. Who said it was? There are similarities, though... not sure what you are getting at... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 This is a woman, a highly successful woman who has been married to a guy who has been a SAHD, a man who has not been a go getter, a man who has managed the house hold and who dabbled in his own hobbies. She was the only breadwinner and I guess made a lot of the decisions. There is a dynamic there and basically it worked for years. For some reason she got fed up of the sex and stopped it, how much that has to do with the core dynamic I am unsure. I just do not know how successful the OP will be in trying to exert his authority now. I know some preach the alpha/manly man philosophy assuming all women want "domination", but that ignores individual preferences. I guess this 56yo career woman is not really looking for her husband to start holding her accountable and telling her what to do... she didn't marry or like having sex with one of those guys... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I just do not know how successful the OP will be in trying to exert his authority now. I guess this 56yo career woman is not really looking for her husband to start holding her accountable and telling her what to do... This. Push too hard and she’s going to walk. The fact that OP is trying to exert his authority and hold her “accountable” is very disrespectful to the mature, accomplished, and responsible woman that you have married. OP is not her parent. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. And if anything, this woman has carries the load for years... How is she going to feel with a shifting power dynamic in which her husband now wants to assume a position of “authority.” I don’t think that will be well received. And, forcing her to make the call to the marriage counsellor is not passive, it is passive aggressive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I suppose, but making a counseling appointment isn’t exactly exerting dominance. I think he said earlier she wanted him to be a rock for her. Things need fixed. She said she wanted to work on their marriage and wanted to go to marriage counseling. So make the appointment and go. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 It is possible to show masculine strength and be her rock, while still communicating, making decisions together, and respecting her choices. Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 It is possible to show masculine strength and be her rock, while still communicating, making decisions together, and respecting her choices. I agree. But I don’t understand. I thought they had a conversation, almost a breakthrough, and they were going to go to counseling, and now it seems like back to the same old thing....*shrug* Seems like going to a marriage counselor would be more helpful than stewing and posting on here. Who makes the appointment seems like a stupid hill to die on. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 The OP is the one in this marriage who sees a problem. It seems to me his wife would be quite happy with the way things are, she is not chomping at the bit to solve any "problem". MC for her is not top priority, and if she is a guarded and private person as claimed, the thought of discussing sex, as that is what it will boil down to ultimately with a complete stranger, is not going to fill her with excitement and joy. The OP needs to make this appointment. She has agreed to go. He, as the one "complaining" needs to take the first step and arrange it. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) I don’t disagree Veronica. I think asking her to call the marriage counsellor definitely shows her commitment/or not to the process of rebuilding the marriage. And to be honest, I’m curious to see if she actually commits and follows though... However, OP seems to be considering this to be a way to regain some authority and power in the relationship. It’s the underlying message that is being sent that may not support the feeling of “partnership.” As I’ve said earlier, it feels a little like a parent telling a wayward child to clean up the mess they made. As I have said earlier, her decision to make the call may indicate that she is considering her options right now... She needs time to do that, and her decision will be apparent very soon. Edited May 10, 2019 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Okay, but at least where I live, it can take MONTHS to get in to see a decent therapist. This thread has only been going on for a couple of months and it’s already huge, and we’re only seeing one side of the story, lol! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) The explanation regarding the marriage counselor is quite simple: 1) My wife is a mind-bogglingly busy executive who must make her own appointments due to the complexity and density of her schedule and 2) even more importantly, after I identified and called the therapist, she said specifically to have my wife call her to create the appointment even though I mentioned coming alone. She would not let me make a shared appointment without hearing from my wife. So it is not out of a need to control her or out of paternalism or any of that poppycock; it's something the therapist insists upon in her professional judgment. Sheesh, people, give me a bit of credit here please!! The year of no sex and silence is a more complex one. At first I simply attributed it to a normal dip in desire that happens in middle age. We were out of sync, I figured, and she was probably a bit tired and worn out (and, as it turns out, she was indeed). So I tried the usual things husbands try: date night, cook a nice dinner, bring flowers, etc but nada. A few months went by and I tried dropping a few good-natured hints (“Hey, it’ll be great to have our son back from college, but since his room is only a few yards down the hall, it sure will be tougher for us to get it on”) but she was still ice. At no point did she try the compassionate response, e.g., something akin to, “Honey, I don’t no quite how to tell you this, but I have been having some problems with sex lately. I love you a lot and you’re the handsomest guy on two legs and all, but geez, y’know menopause is really kicking my butt lately and I am so stressed out from work and my mother’s having Alzheimer’s that I just have not been feeling the sexual connection with you that I would like and which is so essential to our relationship. Could we talk about it? Our marriage is so important to me.” But instead she embraced this awful, cold silence. It was NOT merely the absence of sex but an absence of emotional intimacy. The sexless was a symptom of a larger problem of me feeling like I was being held at arm’s length and not 100% worthy of being her husband. She wouldn't take me into her confidence and when we went on dates she seemed bored, disengaged, not fully present. People here on LS seem to have difficulty grasping how enormously cruel this experience was for me, even if my wife did not do it “on purpose.” She may have been suffering a type of depression or symptoms of menopause. Whether she is truly culpable in this situation is not what's most important, but rather what is or could have been the solution and a sense of a shared problem, a WE issue instead of a ME issue. All of this made me rejected, ignored, and like dirt. And when finally confronted she shocked me by saying I should leave her and go find a woman who could love me properly and have sex with me. I was absolutely gobsmacked and I hugged her and said I wasn't going anywhere and that she was the one I wanted and the only one I want—even though in the moment I was rather devastated after 22 years. And now we are finally beginning to address all of that and to undertake relationship repair after I finally said I'd had it. I think my wife has to find her inner peace before she can build the necessary bridge back to me. I have had to do my own work with an individual therapist, too. I am far from perfect, but I am a good (perhaps even a very good) husband and I deserve better treatment from my spouse. Of course I also have compassion for her and I recognize her many good qualities: she's a stellar mom; generous; knockout gorgeous; brilliant; etc. We genuinely love each other. The question know is can we better ourselves and better our relationship in the process. I believe we can. Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) The explanation regarding the marriage counselor is quite simple: Yes, I understand your marriage issues, according to you. I’m not faulting you. I didn’t understand that the therapist wouldn’t make an appointment without talking to your wife first. Edited May 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) As I see it, the question is not whether my wife wants to have sex with me right now. It's clear she does not. The questions to ask are: How does she feel about the relationship? If she could recover her libido, would she try to do so? If so, why? If not, why not? And by the way, is all of this possibly due to the chance that she is infatuated with someone else or perhaps has unresolved personal issues that make genuine intimacy more challenging for her? Or maybe it really is purely a function of overwork, stress, menopause, etc. or any combination of the above. But expressing deep personal feelings is hard for her, which is one reason why we are at 105 pages and counting. Some of you may recall that I bought her a vibrator for Chanukah thinking she would never buy one for herself but that it might let her experience sexual pleasure without the pressure. I was only right in the former case. Another possible reasonable response of hers could be: “I see the value in reconnecting with R sexually, but after eighteen month it feels so daunting!” In that case, we have sex therapists who specialize in menopause. But she has to want to address that issue, of course. This is that part when a LoveShack reader starts screaming at me that “she ain’t gonna talk so take a walk,” to which I may eventually say, “Fine. I'll call my lawyer at a time of my choosing.” Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Tell your wife to find a less stressful job and start enjoying her life... with you... I don't know... it seems to me that these days we have all our priorities wrong. We want more more and more. I'd like more myself, and very often I have to remind myself that what I have is more than enough and that I should just enjoy life... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Another possible reasonable response of hers could be: “I see the value in reconnecting with R sexually, but after eighteen month it feels so daunting!” She's stressed out and you are just another problem to her... maybe this is a bit harsh, but I'm pretty sure this is how she feels. She agreed to therapy to get you off her back... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 To be frank, OP is a third child in a lot of ways to his wife. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) To be frank, OP is a third child in a lot of ways to his wife.Perhaps, but hopefully not 100%. If I have been perceiving/treating her as a mother figure even to a limited extent I would have to stop doing that; likewise, if she sees/treats me as a son (even to a limited extent), that has to cease as well. Oedipus can go to Hades. If this proves to be a genuine issue, it would underscore the need for me to emphasize quiet masculine strength even if some in this thread *cough* *throat clear* *cough* mock me for mentioning the concept. Edited May 10, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 It is true that at least some therapists will not let you make an appointment for another person. they don't want to waste their time if the person doesn't want to be there and is just being coerced to do so. They want to know they are willing to work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 @giotto If she can't handle making me a higher priority (even amidst the stress and turmoil of her life) than "just another problem," maybe we really do need to re-evaluate this relationship. If I'm not increasing her available bandwidth, maybe I am either failing as a husband or ... she really doesn't want a husband at all. @preraph Thank you. It's too bad that some people seem unable or unwilling to take my word for it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 I do take your word on it. I’m sorry if I missed where you said earlier that your wife has to make the appointment (per the therapist). It is a lot to keep up with, no offense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 To be frank, OP is a third child in a lot of ways to his wife. Sorry Rotagla, but I agree with this. A very demanding third child, at that... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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