bathtub-row Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Seriously, this kind of attitude is going to get you divorced. The day that my partner assumes the role of my parent and tells me that I must apologize and change my behaviour is the day that he finds himself single... What?? If you’ve offended your partner, shut him out for a very long time without an explanation but then decided to turn it all around - again, without explanation, you’d find that completely acceptable and would find him divorce-worthy if he insisted on an apology? Wow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wallysbears Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 you exhaust me. You lack insight and you dispute any comments that attempt to highlight the ways that you have contributed to the problems in your marriage. And then you twist things, pointing out all the things you think your wife is doing wrong, placing the blame firmly at her feet, and then making demands on what she needs to do to improve. It’s very passive aggressive and completely exhausting. I would LOVE to have a conversation with your wife, to see how she is really feeling about her marriage. I have a feeling that she would tell a very different story than you do. And, if she feels as exhausted by you as I feel reading this discussion, she is DONE. I completely agree with this. I'm exhausted and feel like I could bang my head against a wall just participating in this discussion on an online forum...I couldn't imagine living this life. She's running a company. You are at home. And yet you think it is on her to be the one to bring any issues or complaints or conversations to the table? Or to clearly articulate to you what is wrong? I'd venture to guess a lot of what is wrong is right there in front of you but you just don't want to see it or acknowledge it or change it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Sure does. I don't think you understand the definition of passive aggression very well. You seem to resist the idea that my wife is accountable to me for her actions. That's unfortunate because a marriage needs to be equal and without accountability it is inherently unequal. I would love to have a conversation with my wife too, but my attempts have met with failure because of how she has reacted to those attempts at conversation. And yet you try to make that my fault, which is utterly bizarre. I’m not saying that it is entirely your fault, don’t twist my words. I have clearly said, both partners share responsibility in the success/failure of a marriage. We have all shared that you seem unwilling to own any responsibility for the current state of your marriage, and you are quick to place the blame with your wife. Her lack of communication is certainly a problem. The more important issue is, why is she refusing to communicate with you? Find the answer to that question, and things will improve in your marriage. There are clearly things that she is not ready/does not want to say to you. With respect, you do come across as very passive aggressive. It apparent even in the way you are approaching this problem. In one post, you say that you are attempting to be the best husband you can be, taking your wife on a date, doing more around the house, encouraging her to communicate with you and/or have sex with you... and then in a future post, you state that you are not available to have sex with her even if she wanted sex, and then stating that she will not regain your trust until she apologizes to you and changes her behavior. Which is it - are you going to kill her with kindness or threaten and punish her until you get what you want? I can appreciate that this is a reflection of your level of frustration, and the lack of control you feel in finding a solution to the problem. I feel for you, because your in a tough spot and your wife is not willing to bend. But again, you can’t control her or force her to change. Your decision then becomes - make your peace with things or leave. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 ...so I guess I will simply have to take off with our daughter for a weekend afternoon more often. This is a common ploy. Dad takes kids out for "fun" and leaves wife at home. Wife spends time cooking, doing the laundry, cleaning and general tidying... Dad has a great time out spoiling the kids, wife just did more housework... How about you stay at home doing chores and let you wife spend some fun time out with her daughter... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 OP, get over the stuff about wooing and touching her. Seriously. Any woman is going to see that as a sign that you’re open to more and you’ve already stated that you’re not. Stop coddling her when you’re really quite hurt and angry about this whole situation. Your actions toward her are basically a lie and, frankly, looks as though you have no self-respect. That’s the part that concerns me. Because if my spouse did what yours has done, I would be extremely hurt and then I’d get pissed off. I’m not saying it needs to be WWIII in your house but, for me, if I chose to stay in such a situation, it would be somewhat of a Cold War. There would definitely be no foot rubbing, romantic dinners - none of that crap. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 What?? If you’ve offended your partner, shut him out for a very long time without an explanation but then decided to turn it all around - again, without explanation, you’d find that completely acceptable and would find him divorce-worthy if he insisted on an apology? Wow. Not that it matters, but this is not how I behave in a relationship. I don’t shut my partner out, and I would not accept this kind of behavior from him. We are quick to apologize if needed, our relationship has very little conflict. My point in this case, her feelings are understandable, her behavior is unacceptable. An apology may be warranted, I just don’t think it’s coming. As has been said before, if I was dealing with the stress at work, supporting the family, raising children, maintaining a home, dealing with aging parents, feeling crappy as I go through menopause... coming home to a husband who has been home all day and I started now asking for sex and demanding apologies... yeah, that would probably drive me to ask for a divorce. But, that’s just me. People generally don’t do things without a reason. Refusing sex, avoiding discussion, dismissing the suggestion of marriage counselling - they send a clear message that needs to be heard and accepted. She would need to have some interest in bettering her relationship to make an apology. That just doesn’t seem to be the case here, sadly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 This is a common ploy. Dad takes kids out for "fun" and leaves wife at home. Wife spends time cooking, doing the laundry, cleaning and general tidying... Dad has a great time out spoiling the kids, wife just did more housework... That's ridiculous. My wife has specifically stated that she yearns for time alone at home to read, relax, and just chill. I intend to grant that wish. How good a time I have with my daughter is not relevant. How about you stay at home doing chores and let you wife spend some fun time out with her daughter...That's fine, too—but you are being a bit too hard on me here without good cause. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 if I was dealing with the stress at work, supporting the family, raising children, maintaining a home, dealing with aging parents, feeling crappy as I go through menopause... coming home to a husband who has been home all day and I started now asking for sex and demanding apologies... yeah, that would probably drive me to ask for a divorce. But, that’s just me. People generally don’t do things without a reason. Refusing sex, avoiding discussion, dismissing the suggestion of marriage counselling - they send a clear message that needs to be heard and accepted. She would need to have some interest in bettering her relationship to make an apology. That just doesn’t seem to be the case here, sadly.You are justifying my wife's negative behaviors. I do not expect miracles from her. I don't ask the impossible. I just want to be treated fairly and as an equal. I want her to behave in a way that makes me feel cherished, loved, and respected. I am 100% confident (despite your digs) in my record as a husband, which is indisputably beyond reproach. Even my wife said recently that I'm a "wonderful husband"—I shudder to think how she might treat a "lousy husband"! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 I'm heading off to see my new individual therapist for the first time. Have a lovely day folks ... I'll be back on here later. Thanks for the replies and please keep 'em coming. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) OP, get over the stuff about wooing and touching her. Seriously. Any woman is going to see that as a sign that you’re open to more and you’ve already stated that you’re not. Stop coddling her when you’re really quite hurt and angry about this whole situation. Your actions toward her are basically a lie and, frankly, looks as though you have no self-respect. That’s the part that concerns me. Because if my spouse did what yours has done, I would be extremely hurt and then I’d get pissed off. I’m not saying it needs to be WWIII in your house but, for me, if I chose to stay in such a situation, it would be somewhat of a Cold War. There would definitely be no foot rubbing, romantic dinners - none of that crap. I admit that choosing how to behave in this situation is a bit of a dilemma. I really want to be kind. I want to be available to listen. I don't want to initiate conversation about the relationship (for a while, anyway). What I need most of all is her to open up and share her feelings, fears, worries, concerns, etc. We need to restore a sense of emotional intimacy in this marriage that has been missing. From there, I would like to engage in some creative, thoughtful relationship problem-solving. This marriage can be revived, restored, and revitalized but she has to want that to happen. Edited March 28, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I admit that choosing how to behave in this situation is a bit of a dilemma. I really want to be kind. I want to be available to listen. I don't want to initiate conversation about the relationship (for a while, anyway). What I need most of all is her to open up and share her feelings, fears, worries, concerns, etc. We need to restore a sense of emotional intimacy in this marriage that has been missing. From there, I would like to engage in some creative, thoughtful relationship problem-solving. You’re just not going to get that from her by acting like a sap. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I'm heading off to see my new individual therapist for the first time. I’m glad, I was just about to say... if your wife won’t attend marriage counselling, perhaps individual counselling would be helpful. I feel for you OP. You really do seem like a good man and a good husband/father. Perhaps, a little misguided but this is a complicated situation that has been evolving for a long time. There is no easy fix, particularly when your wife has clearly indicated that she is not willing to come to the table. I hope your counsellor is helpful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I am 100% confident (despite your digs) in my record as a husband, which is indisputably beyond reproach. Even my wife said recently that I'm a "wonderful husband"—I shudder to think how she might treat a "lousy husband"! Op, I'm in your corner, but this statement troubles me. No spouse is "beyond reproach". We all do things, usually unintentionally, that hurt others. I'm not saying your wife has any excuse for hurting you the way she has, just that there are many layers to the situation. Do you have any ideas why you think she is so resistant to counseling? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Op, I'm in your corner, but this statement troubles me. No spouse is "beyond reproach". We all do things, usually unintentionally, that hurt others.Fine. I screw up too. But as I husband, I deserve a high grade. I'm not saying your wife has any excuse for hurting you the way she has, just that there are many layers to the situation. Do you have any ideas why you think she is so resistant to counseling? She doesn't want her life or thoughts to be examine by another person. Perhaps her pain is so profound that she is fearful or letting it out. Or maybe she's so convinced of her own rectitude, need for privacy, and the perfect acceptability of her actions that there is no need for therapy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 You’re just not going to get that from her by acting like a sap.Classic no-win scenario for men. If we are silent, strong, and treat women like crap we are irresistable bad boys and they can't keep their hands off of us. If, on the other hand, we open up, talk about our feelings, admit vulnerability, and treat women with respect and kindness, then we are wimps undeserving of their attentions. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Op, I'm in your corner, but this statement troubles me. No spouse is "beyond reproach". We all do things, usually unintentionally, that hurt others. Exactly. And there, is the disconnect. We have a husband who says he is “100% confident in his performance as a husband,” and he is “indisputably beyond reproach...” And yet, we have a wife who may say he is a “wonderful husband,” but does not want to be emotionally or physically intimate with her husband. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Oh dang. I just popped back into this thread. Turns out, same old same old, except OP has gotten more adamant in his self-portrayal as a victim. I can practically see him stomping his foot as he says that she OWES him an apology and she HAD BETTER clean up her act. Same unrealistic expectations, same waffling. OP, why on earth do you keep thinking this woman is going to change her tune of her own accord? Yes, she should be willing to discuss your marriage, but for whatever reason, she isn't. You can't force her to behave how you want her to behave. I'm not sure what you hope to gain. Oh, and I agree that you need to stop with the wooing. She's not stupid -- she assumes you're trying to get your way. If you can't live with a closed up, asexual wife, get out of the marriage. It isn't going to change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Not at moment, no. I am temporarily suspending the initiation of discussions with my wife concerning our relationship because her behavior in those discussions is counterproductive. She stonewalls, cries, and gets all triggery. It is fruitless. So for now, I'm working on me. I am pleasant and supportive toward my wife. I'm available to listen. But I am not starting any discussions about our feelings about the relationship for now. Indeed not. Yes, that is correct. Repeating that statement over and over again does not make it any less untrue than the first time you said it. Well, I'm either getting a divorce or my wife and I will find a way to repair our marriage. I intend to be prepared for either outcome. How is my statement untrue if many other LS members can clearly identify your reluctance to take the advice that you asked for? The petulance has been mentioned more than once. Unfortunately, your behavior on LS makes it rather obvious that your wife may find you difficult to deal with, even though you insist on blaming her for all of the problems in your marriage. I honestly do not understand what you're looking for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Classic no-win scenario for men. If we are silent, strong, and treat women like crap we are irresistable bad boys and they can't keep their hands off of us. If, on the other hand, we open up, talk about our feelings, admit vulnerability, and treat women with respect and kindness, then we are wimps undeserving of their attentions. It sounds like your understandable bitterness toward your wife is making you irrational. A man can be strong and vulnerable at the same time. It's all about balance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I admit that choosing how to behave in this situation is a bit of a dilemma. I really want to be kind. I want to be available to listen. I don't want to initiate conversation about the relationship (for a while, anyway). What I need most of all is her to open up and share her feelings, fears, worries, concerns, etc. We need to restore a sense of emotional intimacy in this marriage that has been missing. From there, I would like to engage in some creative, thoughtful relationship problem-solving. This marriage can be revived, restored, and revitalized but she has to want that to happen. If your approach to this situation has proved unsuccessful, I fail to see why you would continue on that path. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Classic no-win scenario for men. If we are silent, strong, and treat women like crap we are irresistable bad boys and they can't keep their hands off of us. If, on the other hand, we open up, talk about our feelings, admit vulnerability, and treat women with respect and kindness, then we are wimps undeserving of their attentions. No. I’m talking about a situation where her behavior toward you is disrespectful. In such a case, you don’t respond with foot rubs and romantic dinners. No one should - male or female. You’ll get looked down on like you’re beneath them. How about actually being authentic? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Yes, I am profoundly frustrated because: My wife still refuses to have sex with me;She is not willing to identify how she feels, what she wants, or what issues we can work on;We are living under a cloud of her ambivalencw;We have an anniversary coming up and I am not sure I can bear to celebrate it. What is there to celebrate;She expects me to be her rock, not to express my dismay over the state of our marriage;She is risking our child's future by acting cruelly and indifferently toward her father;I strongly suspect she wants a divorce but won't own that desire so she is just waiting for the right time to dump me;She is paralyzed to inaction by guilt;She's too stressed out to work on the marriage despite my doing my best to give her relief;She made me feel unloved, undesired, and diminished as a man;She checked out of this marriage two years afo;She wants all the privileges of married life in the meantimea so I can be her roommate and co-parent.She has treated me like dirt.Divorce will greatly harm the family she claims to cherish. Edited March 28, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yes, I am profoundly frustrated because: She is paralyzed by guilt; Why? ............... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 Why? ............... She thinks dumping me is wrong and cruel but wants to anyway and that produces guilt. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 I think she loves-me-but-isn't-in-love-with-me, so she cares, likes me, does not want to hurt me. That's really painful after 23 years together, two kids, a mortgage and deeply intertwined lives. She doesn't really want a full marriage but she can't stomach divorce so she wants me to stay in limbo until she finally gets the courage to end it. I will serve her with divorce papers well before that. No man should have to put up with this. Ambivalence is just a slow-motion “No.” Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts