Marc878 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Sex is one way to show love. There are certainly others... And yes, it would be her absolute refusal to discuss the situation and compromise that would be the dealbreaker for me. That is the more selfish act, IMHO. I hate to tell you this but when people marry they do think sex is going to be a part of it. Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) She has clearly done a cost benefit analysis and decided that it would be acceptable to stop having sex with her husband. Perhaps, she has believes that he will either accept the redifined terms of the marriage and keep the status quo. Or perhaps, she has made her peace with the fact that he may chose to end the marriage and leave (one would have to think that when she began to refuse sex, she knew she may lose her marriage because sex is a part of marriage and she had decided that she was ok with this possibility...) In the original post, Rotaglia mentioned that his wife wanted to divorce him because he was "browbeating" her. He responded to that by chasing her even more. I'm wondering if all of the pressure may have led to his wife shutting down completely. Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) My guess is that it is more complicated than that, but pressuring your partner to have sex would certainly have that effect. If it was me, knowing what we have all learned in this discussion... I think she has lost attraction and a little respect for her husband. It sounds to me like she “loves him” but she is not “in love with him...” She does not want to be physically or emotionally intimate but obviously cares about her husband, the family and the life they have created together. I also think divorce is costly, particularly when you have been the sole provider, and it’s easier and cheaper to settle into a life of comfortable companionship... Not saying I agree/disagree, that is my thought of what is happening here... again, people do it all the time (both men and women). Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 It truly is his decision to make at this point, because the original post made clear she was willing to accept separation when this all ramped up. So she'll accept divorce or she'll accept he stays but stops "browbeating" her to have sex. He keeps hoping there's a third option, but I think she's probably already told him everything she knows to tell him and probably just won't let him engage her in endless "talks" such as we see he is capable of on here. This is a great place for it. Living with that nonstop, you'd have to put a stop to it or you'd never get anything done. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) It truly is his decision to make at this point, because the original post made clear she was willing to accept separation when this all ramped up. So she'll accept divorce or she'll accept he stays but stops "browbeating" her to have sex Agree. She has made her decision and she has communicated that to her husband. Right or wrong. Fair or unfair. It doesn’t matter, she has made her decision and you have to accept that. He is hoping there is a third option but she has not budged. The browbeating, attempts at emotional manipulation, endless “talks” - that must be a exhausting for her so she has shut it down. Wishing it was different will not change the reality of the situation. Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) When we got married we were having sex regularly. We continued to have sex regularly for 20 years onward. She seemed to enjoy it. If after that she lost interest for whatever reason, the compassionate response would be to say something along the lines of: “Honey, I know you won’t be thrilled to hear this, but I have not been feeling very inclined to have sex lately and actually I am wondering about the role of sex in our relationship. Do you think we could talk about this?”She handled this poorly and that accentuates the pain for me. She needs to acknowledge that at the very least. Edited April 14, 2019 by Rotaglia Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Prioritising sex in a marriage is important especially when young but I see no point in trying to force a 56yo menopausal woman into providing sex or blow jobs or hand jobs if she has decided she no longer wants to do that. Trouble is sex needs desire and without desire, sex can take on a yucky/disgusting/messy element that some cannot get over. The penis goes from being a sexual object, to something pee comes out of... semen can be seen as something to be avoided at all costs. Sex can then literally gross out some women. Even women who previously loved it when attraction was high and hormones were raging. Without desire, sex can be seen as repulsive to some women, and I guess that is why when desire goes, duty sex is the order of the day, until they can't stand it any longer and shut up shop completely. Companionship, mutual interests and family are then the main priorities... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 It's sad. It really is. Because they seem compatible in most ways. But we're only hearing one side, of course. No guarantee he would find a new love either, but at least there would be the hope. I can't see him being emotionally detached enough even after divorce to satisfy a new woman that she should get in the middle, but you never know. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) When we got married we were having sex regularly. We continued to have sex regularly for 20 years onward. She seemed to enjoy it. Agree. But, wishing it was different doesn’t change the reality of the situation. You can imagine all the kind and thoughtful things she could have done, but you are not her. She is not you. As to the fact that you had sex regularly for 20 years... I golfed regularly for 20 years but more recently, I have no interest in golfing any more. For whatever reason, I can not be bothered. I do it occasionally because my partner enjoys it, but I could care less if I ever picked up a golf club again. And one day, I may decide to tell him to go golfing with the boys, I don’t want to golf any more... People are entitled to make a different decision. It goes without saying, but just because you once had a healthy sex life, it doesn’t not mean that you will have an active sex life until death do you part... That’s just the way it goes sometimes. Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I would just point out that the OP places high priority on sex because it makes him feel loved -- but if you're pushing someone who doesn't want to have it into having it, does that make you feel loved? Or are you just glad you got sex? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 To suggest that a 46 year old man should just accept a sexless marriage is delusional and lacks any element of common sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) OP this is not normal at all. Your wife for whatever reason has no attraction or feelings for you. From what I've seen once that happens there is no fixings. At 46 you are @ the midpoint of your life. Your wife has told you and shown you what you need to know. You not believing her is your problem to solve. From her actions I think she wants out but doesn't want to be the bad person so this is her way of making you end it. Your problem is most currently you don't have a lot to work with. You're a SAHD which lowers your status. It may not be fair but it's reality. You need to seriously get a plan together. Currently you are like a puppy trying to get petted. That won't get you a thing I would just point out that the OP places high priority on sex because it makes him feel loved -- but if you're pushing someone who doesn't want to have it into having it, does that make you feel loved? Or are you just glad you got sex? We're talking about zero sex in a marriage and OP is only 46 years old. He's not in a wheelchair yet Prioritising sex in a marriage is important especially when young but I see no point in trying to force a 56yo menopausal woman into providing sex or blow jobs or hand jobs if she has decided she no longer wants to do that.......... Companionship, mutual interests and family are then the main priorities... Only if the denied spouse is a doormat and accepts it. Divorce is probably a better option. I think as you get older you are better equipped to find someone more compatible. Marriage isn't and shouldn't be a life sentence Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge and truncate quote 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 My wife has a responsibility to talk to me about the current state of our relationship and sex life, to own her feelings, and show an awareness of how this all impact me. Her failure to do so makes it harder to me to embrace spending the rest of my life with someone whom I love and who may love me but who misunderstands an essential part of me, ignores it, and shames me for trying to share it with her. That is simply not acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 To suggest that a 46 year old man should just accept a sexless marriage is delusional and lacks any element of common sense. Nobody is saying that he should accept it. If he doesn’t like it, he has another option. It’s not a good option. It’s not an easy option. But, he has another option. What he needs to accept is that his wife has decided she does not want to have sex with him. He can not force his wife to communicate with him or have sex with him - he may die trying... If that’s not what he wants, he has another option. She has made it such that he can either accept the terms she offers, or he will have to make a different decision. Again, not saying it’s right or fair. It just is... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Divorce is probably a better option. But it is not a simple situation is it? There are a lot of factors here that need to be taken into consideration before he can just step off into the unknown... He is a SAHD, he has not worked a "real job" in years, he has a history of severe mental illness and his youngest child is just 12... He also cares for his MIL. He also loves his wife... They live very comfortably and he seems to have a lot of "fun" in his life, divorce would reduce them both to apartment living... BTW he is 49, not that it makes much of a difference here, but it may do if he goes job hunting... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) I think he needs to get honest with himself about whether he wants love or whether he wants sex, because a divorce, he still isn't going to have love AND sex anytime soon, if ever. He says repeatedly (and then contradicts himself or lets his anger show) that with her, he knows he has love, even without the sex. But then he says he needs sex to feel loved. But really, he just wants her to cave in and have sex, best I can tell, and he'd be happy enough and could pretend things were hunky dory. But if she does, it truly should not give him a warm fuzzy "feeling loved" feeling since she isn't feeling it, so I think he's being less than candid about that. I think he wants sex and doesn't really care if she wants to give it or not, i.e., is willing to sacrifice the "feeling loved" for "getting laid," because I think that's how it's been for awhile before she shut it down. I don't think dating in today's world is going to make him feel loved. I think it's made a lot of people miserable and not sure he can handle that, frankly. It's not like he can just conjure up the next woman and have it all right away. He may or may not find someone. If you can believe how he talks, just having sex isn't going to do it for him. He wants to "feel loved." Edited April 14, 2019 by preraph 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) My wife has a responsibility to talk to me about the current state of our relationship and sex life, to own her feelings, and show an awareness of how this all impact me. OH really. Who's going to make her? You still don't get it. She's made her decision. She's fine with it. You don't matter. It's not up to her to make you happy. That's entirely your job. You are still projecting your feelings onto her. Wake up I think he needs to get honest with himself about whether he wants love or whether he wants sex, because a divorce, he still isn't going to have love AND sex anytime soon, if ever. He knows what he's got. All he'll ever get in this situation is more of the same. If it were me I'd take that chance. life is short and for the most part is what you make it But it is not a simple situation is it? ......... BTW he is 49, not that it makes much of a difference here, but it may do if he goes job hunting... Yes he has put himself in a bad situation. He can either live with it or make a change while he has the time. The clock is ticking. It's obvious his wife has zero attraction so what happens if she dumps him? It happens. Then he won't have a choice Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge posts and truncate quote 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 At a minimum, a kind, respectful, loving, and frank conversation or a series of conversations is the right thing. We both need to state where we stand and what options we each are prepared to consider. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 This is far from a simple situation. It is complex and highly nuanced. A misstep by me could hold very unpleasant consequences. On the one hand, I don’t need to be married to this woman in order to be happy but I if I can be successfully married to her for the rest of my life it would enhance my happiness (and hopefully hers) greatly. What is her responsibility here? Maybe we can’t have sex anymore but we can continue to make love. I need to feel it from her. She has to say something! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 @Mark878, I accept the risk that my wife could dump me at any time. In our state, a couple has to live apart for a year before a divorce can take effect and i am fully prepared for all of that should that take place. It is not my preference but I am no longer afraid. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) We both need to state where we stand and what options we each are prepared to consider. She's already told you that. This is far from a simple situation. It is complex and highly nuanced. .......... What is her responsibility here? Maybe we can’t have sex anymore but we can continue to make love. I need to feel it from her. She has to say something! Not really. She's already made up her mind. You just don't want to get it yet. She doesn't have to do anything and you nor anyone else can make her @Mark878, I accept the risk that my wife could dump me at any time. In our state, a couple has to live apart for a year before a divorce can take effect and i am fully prepared for all of that should that take place. It is not my preference but I am no longer afraid. The only thing you can do is get a good plan Together and follow it. You are not in a good position at this time. Better fix that. I suspect it's a lack of attraction issue. No one wants sex or intimacy with someone they have no attraction to. You are waiting on her but I don't see that as an option. Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge posts and truncate quote 2 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I'm in the same situation. And I do have a choice and my choice will be divorce. The reason is very simple: I love my wife, she loves me, but she doesn't want to engage in sexual activities with me any more. I''m obviously not happy, but I understand the reason and I respect it. The problem with staying is that I find my wife highly attractive and my sex drive is still rampant. So, spending the rest of my life with a person I cannot have sex with when I desire her highly would be a torture. Of course I could find ways of lowering my sex drive - like take anti-depressants - but I won't. It's not right to change myself as a person like that and I would still desire her to a certain extent. So, I don't have another choice, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sad this is happening after over 30 years, but this is life and I have to accept it. The sense of rejection is great, but it is what it is and I have to get on my life. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) You are correct. Everyone has a choice. The only one who can keep you in these situations is yourself. No one else has that power over you. Many will live on hopium for years. From what I've seen nothing ever changes. Life is short. Edited April 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Life is short. Absolutely. Unfortunately, for me, without sex there is no intimacy and without intimacy there is no closeness. The result for me would be detachment on the long run. I'm perfectly aware that there are men that are prepared to accept a sexless marriage. They are happy with just the company. They don't really care about sex. They can do without. Or maybe they are afraid to be lonely. My wife keeps telling me: lots of couple at our age (mid-fifties) don't have sex any more. I accept that. They do exist, but I'm afraid I'm wired differently... I'm not living the marriage just because of sex. It's because I cannot have that old bond any more and I don't want to pester my wife with silly sexual requests. It wouldn't be right. We will be fine. OP, I suggest you have a frank conversation with your wife. Sit her down and explain to her how you feel. Tell her the choices so she knows where you stand and where she stands. See how she reacts and then you'll have your answer. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rotaglia Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 @giotto, that's pretty much where I am as well. The trouble is, we have a twelve-year-old child and there is no way in hell I am going to deprive her of 100% time with her mom and 100% with her dad until she leaves for college, period. She needs both of us. So a divorce in the next six years is out of the question unless my wife decides to file. Link to post Share on other sites
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