kpedersen Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Hi forum, I do not know what to do. My wife and I decided to open up our relationship. Even decided with whom we should try. We are both cool with it. So W hooks up with a person and they are getting off ok, despite ups and down. They have many dates and have sex several times everytime they are together. We even engage in threesomes. All are happy. At one point we have done it 12-15 times during the evening/night, awesome, and in the morning her and the other man have sex on the sofa next to me, waking me up. So I man up and go again. And now she insist that she felt we raped her in the morning?! This just is not true, but none the less, she insists. I am really sorry about this mess. Also when we decided to open up, I tried contacting a recently divorced friend to see if she was up to it. Before I even tried anything, W said this was a no go. Ok, accepted, but I then asked about her recent holiday after seeing photos on social media. She was a friend and that was normal to do. We stopped everything, was not a good experience with this conflict afterwards. No a year after, I am still being called a rapist, digusting man, cheater (I never even touched another woman), and even a pimp, loaning his wife out for sex?! WTF?! I have no reply to this! What on earth is going on here. I keep being asked about this and why I did all this, and I honestly have no reply. Because what would it be? After being yelled at and hit, I acknowledged her pain and said that when she explains it to me like that I can see how she can feel this could be rape. Trying to acknowledge that made it even worse! Now it is "how could you?" what kind of low life person are you? etc. I was just trying to help her. I do not to this day see this as anything but sex. And great sex too. There was nothing but respect for her and two guys having sex with her and kissing her, and she LOVED it. So whether it is moral second thoughts or what, I'm troubled by these accusations. I can't stand up to it as she throws things, screams and tries to hurt me physically. I psycologist told me to refuse it and say I did not want this part in her version of the story. Tried this once…. Oh, here is the best. She wanted to moved out because I didn't want to allow her a new affair right when all this exploded. I asked her for wait a little for the dust to land, but she was so angry. If she wanted a new affair now, I wouldn't mind. But still, open for both. No way! It could not be open for me. I still have no clue what is going on here. I took her to couples therapy for this but she found it was stupid. Now we do not have an active sex life, she still wants an affair. I say, a semi open relationship with no primary couple sex....I don't think so. She says we can't have sex, because I did these things to her, and I am just....but I didn't. "We'll that is just what rapists do, deny!" is the answer…! Every argument we have, that can be about anything small, ends up also have disgusting, cheater, rapist etc in it. Out of context. Any advice on how I can stop her seeing everything the wrong way. BTW except intimately, things are fine. We are great friends and work great together as parents. But this?! I have no idea! Advice appreciated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 @kperdersen "So I man up and go again. And now she insist that she felt we raped her in the morning?! " Is she accusing both of you, or just you, can you clarify? Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I do not understand open relationships & I do get that no means no. But for a woman to have consensual sex with 2 men all night, be having sex with another man & then cry rape when her husband joins in at best the lines are very blurry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Are you sure she was completely consensual to the whole open marriage thing to begin with? Why was it opened up to begin with? It seems like the first half of the story might be missing... Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I think that regardless of how she felt going into it the night before, the all-night marathon and piling on in the morning made her feel really used. I mean, most women would feel used way sooner than that, but I think that's what it took for her to feel bad about it. I mean, that's too much, way too much. There were two of you and one of her. She may have felt she had no say in it -- or she may have been too tired and confused to say no at the time or like she was outnumbered. I mean, obviously, neither of you have conventional boundaries here. It's going to be hard for people here to counsel you and probably even hard for psychologists to counsel you since they haven't had this experience or probably anything close to your mindset, but professionals are your best hope. You make it sound like just going back to being faithful to each other isn't an option, but this has ran off in the ditch, so I'd want the counselor to work on whichever one or both of you thinks you must have multiple partners and all this chaos and why. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author kpedersen Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Yes, both of us. And actually most him and me for letting him?! When we left the house she told me it was SO hot to wake me up this way. ------------------- Are you sure she was completely consensual to the whole open marriage thing to begin with? Why was it opened up to begin with? It seems like the first half of the story might be missing... Yes, she even suggested it. Of course I was in on it. Not narrow minded...! Edited March 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge posts Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 To somebody's point about the marathon sex leaving her raw, that I totally get. The morning if she didn't want more she could have spoken up. She didn't. It sounds like your wife is giving you mixed messages -- yes, no, maybe. That is not fair. She has to be specific or all fun & games has to stop. Clarity & open truthfulness are required in situations like this which must turn on trust. Link to post Share on other sites
BreakOnThrough Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Don't walk, RUN 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 This is all just my personal opinion, but I think it's hard to know what's really going on in your wife's mind. The suggestions above make sense as possibilities. Or possibly she formed a bona fide false memory (this can occur). It's possible (and I'm just brainstorming here) she's a covert narcissist, or has issues such as molestation or a prior rape. Or maybe she's just manipulating you or even trying to get you to form a false memory. There are many possibilities. Unless you're accidentally making this out to be worse than it is, it really sounds like your marriage is fraying. Certainly the sexual aspect is. There also seems to be a clear and pretty blatant double standard from her with respect to the polyamory. I'm not overly big on the whole "beta buck" thing, but maybe it applies in your case? Or she's trying to make it that way now that you're married. My two cents. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 She sounds psychologically damaged. And not by anything you’ve done or didn’t do either. Was she ever sexually abused in her life? Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 So, her issues begun with you starting to pursue the friend? Now she feels forced into an open marriage that only she got to sleep with someone else. Yeah, something is off. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There was nothing but respect for her and two guys having sex with her Going to deliberately pass on some of the more obvious ironies in your post. To me, the simple answer is keeping your relationship monogamous avoids these complicated, confusing and gray-area situations. Were there married instances before you opened your relationship where your wife said sex was not consensual? Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I could be wrong but as the open relationship was your wife's idea in the first place then it may be following a well worn path. She wanted variety and other men or she had her eye on another man, unfortunately you got in the way and wanted threesomes. After a particular heavy night, she got used by both of you in the morning, you went too far and suddenly it was no fun any more. Now she is angry and wants nothing to do with you sexually. Game over. Like a lot of people who want to open up the marriage they do not want their spouse to see and sleep with other people, so whilst she still wants to have dalliances, she has basically forbidden you to do the same. You went far too far in her eyes, so she has lost any desire she had for you. As she suggested opening it up in the first place, her desire for you may have been flagging anyway... and maybe now she has a good excuse to shut you down completely... Pity you didn't come here before you ruined your marriage by agreeing to this open arrangement... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 My wife and I decided... If this were a quiz; the goal being to find the most likely source of your problem hidden within the text of your post - the above quote would be my answer. What evidence is there that this decision was mutual? What evidence is there that it was not simply a legitimate substitute for an affair? Who brought up the subject of "open" first? Who identified the first candidate? This can go 180 degrees in either direction: Maybe your wife regrets it? Perhaps your wife played you to established an affair with your full consent? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 You should’ve banged the divorced lady. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 You should’ve banged the divorced lady. Just maybe, it takes a village. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 ^^^^^^^ Is it just me or do I detect a certain very dry but wild humor in this post?? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 It’s just you brah Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It seems like the whole "open" idea went from 0-60 and then jumped the median into three lane traffic with no brakes or air bags. What was the impetus for opening the marriage? How did it evolve from dating other people to sharing your wife and your wife's experience? Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 A question... Were you drinking/ using drugs during the night before she made this accusation? If so, then you really can't complain. If she was sober, well, I don't understand any of this type of thing. Get professional help. In the meantime, if you want to try and understand why she is acting he way she is, this is an exercise that might help. Try explaining to us what happened from her point of view. Make it purely her, no editorializing or adding your own opinion. I'm not saying this will change anything that happened, but if you can understand why she is acting the way she is, you might have a better idea of what you next steps should be. Sorry I can't be of more help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Thegameoflife Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Sex affects women's memory. During sex, many parts of the brain are activated, and multiple brain chemicals are released. For men, it's mainly dopamine, which is why men are more likely to become sex addicts. For women, their main release is oxytocin, which is key to things like bonding. It's the reason why women become attached to men after sex. Now, the thing is, the brain establishes thresholds, which increase with uptake of chemicals, and decrease with absence. When a woman has sex multiple times, and achieves multiple orgasms in a single day, raises the threshold to experience the high. Essentially, your marathon sex day wiped out the positive response, and then she probably crashed. In the morning, she wanted sex because she wanted to elevate her hormones, but the effect didn't occur. Essentially, she was in a depressed state. Feeling depressed, she reflected on the experience. When we access our memories, they are affected by our current emotional state, which for her was depression. Essentially, she viewed all the events through the negative lens of being depressed, and her brain changed her perception of the previous events, and then re-recorded them in her memory with all the negative associations. This changed her perception and memory from having a mutual good time, to one of focusing on causation and the negative feelings of the experience. Since her brain has overwritten the positive memories, her experience is equivocal to rape. How to fix this? Well, you allowed her to bond to another man, and she has established negative sexual memories of you. Basically, you will have to wait this out, and work to establish positive experiences with you until those memories are pushed down. Empathize with how she feels, and assure her that you never intended to harm her, and would have never gone forward if you knew she would feel this way. Also, no more threesomes or extra-marital sex. Your wife will recall this trauma even thinking about it. The only other way to help her, would require someone to essentially walk her through the experience, and help her regain a sense that she made choices and wasn't powerless. After all, she is a grown adult woman, and peer pressure is not a valid excuse that absolves her of accountability in the situation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Maybe your wife meant an open marriage only for her, perhaps she expected you to wait around until she got her fill of men. It doesn't sound like she wants to share you with other women. She may be trying to set you up for something. Carry a recording device on you whenever the two of you are alone. I rarely hear of open marriages that work out, ever. Is it possible she just wants out of your marriage? I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer about your situation, you don't know how this is going to end, you need to know your rights and what divorce might look like for you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Historically speaking, the open marriage concept does not fare too well on an infidelity board. For those who adhere to monogamy, the open marriage is foreign territory. I assume some ideas are universal, but I have to assume because I cannot wrap my head around an open marriage. Betrayal is universal, but in this instance you are alleged to be the betrayer by violating your wife by having sex with her while she was having sex with another man in your home. I am not sure how that equates with infidelity or the issues therein. It might, but at first glance it does not. As a matter of ethics, if your wife did not consent to sex with you, then it was wrong. That you are married does not equate with universal consent. That she was having sex with someone else does not equate with consent for you. If she conveyed the idea of "no" then that was sufficient rejection of or communication of lack of consent. That is pretty straightforward. No means no. Edited March 21, 2019 by bigman1 grammar 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Did your wife say no when you had sex that morning? Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I really think we would have to hear your wife's side of this story before we can speculate as to what is going on here. I gather that your wife was on board for an open marriage but who initiated the threesomes? Was your wife under the influence of any substances when the threesomes happened? Personally I would not respect my boyfriend or husband if he was okay watching me have sex with another man or wanted to join in. Even if I really wanted sex with the other guy and enjoyed it would still gross me out that my boyfriend/husband liked watching or participating. That's just me but I feel like if a man really loves me his natural instinct would be to protect me from other men. Sounds like you and your wife didn't really talk through all of the details and ground rules before this happened. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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