Companionate Marriage

[SCFenway]

A little back story. My wife and I have been married almost 23yrs and together almost 28, well more than half of either of our lives. We have generally been happy though things have been a struggle financially over the years and there have been long periods of sexlessness in that time, atleast one time not having sex for over a year. As of now it has been 9 months.

 

Our financial issues were do to some bad decision making on both our parts. But in the past couple of years we have been able to sort things out pretty well and we have bought a house. We do love each other and our finances are pretty well intertwined (I make significantly more than she does though neither of us makes a ton) and we love co parenting our son.

 

For all intents and purposes though, we are roommates. We have lots of common friends and like a lot of the same activities. The thing is I have no interest in not having sex for the rest of my life and I also don't want her to have to do something she doesn't want to do. I have also reached the point where I can't even really be mad about it.

 

She is bi-polar and I know the meds mess with her sex drive, she is also entering menopause. Over the past couple of decades she has had a couple of EA's though I believe they were one sided (influenced by her BP disorder).

 

Our marriage at this point is a partnership, but aside from the sex part of things I am really happy with her and I think she is happy with me. I admit I did get a little mad at her last week... she had her BC device removed and replaced and the procedure went poorly and caused her pain. I felt like asking her why she had the new one put in? But that was momentary and I am over it.

 

Any thoughts on opening the relationship? Setting specific ground rules? I am fine with her seeking pleasure elsewhere at this point and would like the opportunity to do so myself. I have been listening to Dan Savage lately and I tend to agree with him that it is impossible to get everything you need from one person. I get most of what I need from her. But there is something missing.

Edited December 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Clean up spacing

[elaine567]

What does your wife think about opening up your marriage?

[SCFenway]

I don't know yet. I haven't brought it up. I am seeking thoughts, advice? We have definitely been more open in talking about sex lately.

[Mrs._December]

So just to get this straight, she's a mother, she's a wife, she works outside the home, she has many interests, hobbies, and friends and generally takes care of the family home, as well.

 

She manages to do ALL that pretty successfully, just like most other women, even though she's bipolar.

 

Yet, this bipolar condition drove her to cheat on you. Let me guess - a therapist came to this conclusion.

 

Amazingly, her bipolar doesn't seem to drive her to be a bad mother to her son, or drive her to be a bad worker at her job, or drive her to screw her friends over, or drive her to break the law or any of that. But magically, it IS to blame for her cheating.

 

The point I'm making is that you're making convenient EXCUSES for her bad behavior because it makes it easier for you to swallow the **** sandwiches she's served up to you over the years with her 'couple of EAs' you say she's had. It's amazing how she's capable of acting as expected in every other aspect of her life, yet the bipolar drove her to have EAs.

 

See how silly that sounds? Just call a spade a spade.

 

Maybe she'll be open to the possibility of an open marriage. All you can do is ask, right?

[DKT3]

Sounds like it's been open for her for awhile.

[Orokotikki]

I suggest you look into how to better meet her needs emotional and otherwise, perhaps with help from MC. You may think you are doing a lot or too much, but it may be you are not really doing the things which really count for her.

 

Sometimes when your marriage is stuck, either party can jar positive change, which draws the other party to reciprocate and improves the marriage for both.

[Mr. Lucky]

Sounds like it's been open for her for awhile.

 

Only the OP's wife knows for sure, but I doubt it.

 

With the OP having (somewhat naturally) shut down over the loss of physical connection, I'd guess this is attention-seeking behavior on her part, something common with her disorder. Hence SCFenway's description of the EA's as "one-sided".

 

Agree with Orokotikki, the marriage needs help and professional support, not some man or woman from Craigslist.

 

SCFenway, the probable outcome of opening your marriage would be to screw up the parts you appreciate without fixing any of the deficits. Especially in your case, bad, bad idea...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Tamfana]

...

I admit I did get a little mad at her last week... she had her BC device removed and replaced and the procedure went poorly and caused her pain. I felt like asking her why she had the new one put in? But that was momentary and I am over it....

 

Due to this at least, it would be very bad timing to propose having sex with other people. Since you two have been married for a long time and appear to be out of the baby-making stage, have you two discussed your having a vasectomy so she doesn't have to have an IUD any more?

[preraph]

Since you're happy in all other ways, I don't advise rocking the boat by opening up a free-for-all open marriage. Maybe she kept her BC because she hasn't ruled out having sex with you. Neither of you would want to know the other is having sex elsewhere and it would erode the marriage. If one of you found someone else, it wouldn't be fair to this person you love and made a life with. Look, getting older isn't all fun and games. Sex often does get written out of the equation with couples who've been together a long time. I think part of that is they become so familiar and so much family and sometimes roles get mixed up and one becomes parental (which will kill sex) and at some point it just isn't sexy and feels weird.

 

I do think maybe a talk that isn't a showdown would be fine. Maybe just being straightforward, like, I miss having sex. I don't know what to do about it.

 

Let me ask, do you at least get cuddling in front of the tv, or has it all gone cold? When you did have sex last, did you have to get rejected a few times before she did it, or was it spontaneous?

 

But don't start bringing people into your lives and tear this nice domestic arrangement all up. Sex isn't THAT important to throw all that away. Lots of people go their whole lives without ever finding what you have.

[SCFenway]

The point I'm making is that you're making convenient EXCUSES for her bad behavior because it makes it easier for you to swallow the **** sandwiches she's served up to you over the years with her 'couple of EAs' you say she's had. It's amazing how she's capable of acting as expected in every other aspect of her life, yet the bipolar drove her to have EAs.

 

 

I think you missed my point. She had a couple of EA's that I believe were one sided (she was infatuated with them but they did not recip). This is not at all uncommon with people with bipolar disorder. It's part of the manic highs.

Edited March 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SCFenway]

Due to this at least, it would be very bad timing to propose having sex with other people. Since you two have been married for a long time and appear to be out of the baby-making stage, have you two discussed your having a vasectomy so she doesn't have to have an IUD any more?

 

 

Why would I get a vasectomy? We don't have sex.

[SCFenway]

So just to get this straight, she's a mother, she's a wife, she works outside the home, she has many interests, hobbies, and friends and generally takes care of the family home, as well.

 

She manages to do ALL that pretty successfully, just like most other women, even though she's bipolar.

 

Yet, this bipolar condition drove her to cheat on you. Let me guess - a therapist came to this conclusion.

 

Amazingly, her bipolar doesn't seem to drive her to be a bad mother to her son, or drive her to be a bad worker at her job, or drive her to screw her friends over, or drive her to break the law or any of that. But magically, it IS to blame for her cheating.

 

The point I'm making is that you're making convenient EXCUSES for her bad behavior because it makes it easier for you to swallow the **** sandwiches she's served up to you over the years with her 'couple of EAs' you say she's had. It's amazing how she's capable of acting as expected in every other aspect of her life, yet the bipolar drove her to have EAs.

 

See how silly that sounds? Just call a spade a spade.

 

Maybe she'll be open to the possibility of an open marriage. All you can do is ask, right?

 

 

 

 

Oh, and I don't think I ever said she acted as expected in all other aspects of her life. She is woefully underemployed. She has a master's and is doing a job she could get with an associates degree. She is too anxiety riddled to seek more appropriate employment. We get by, but we would be comfortable if she earned to her potential.

[Tamfana]

Why would I get a vasectomy? We don't have sex.

 

So she doesn't have to have IUD's, that's all. It sounds as though they are or have become a problem for her. It might alleviate one stress.

[SCFenway]

Since you're happy in all other ways, I don't advise rocking the boat by opening up a free-for-all open marriage. Maybe she kept her BC because she hasn't ruled out having sex with you. Neither of you would want to know the other is having sex elsewhere and it would erode the marriage. If one of you found someone else, it wouldn't be fair to this person you love and made a life with. Look, getting older isn't all fun and games. Sex often does get written out of the equation with couples who've been together a long time. I think part of that is they become so familiar and so much family and sometimes roles get mixed up and one becomes parental (which will kill sex) and at some point it just isn't sexy and feels weird.

 

I do think maybe a talk that isn't a showdown would be fine. Maybe just being straightforward, like, I miss having sex. I don't know what to do about it.

 

Let me ask, do you at least get cuddling in front of the tv, or has it all gone cold? When you did have sex last, did you have to get rejected a few times before she did it, or was it spontaneous?

 

But don't start bringing people into your lives and tear this nice domestic arrangement all up. Sex isn't THAT important to throw all that away. Lots of people go their whole lives without ever finding what you have.

 

 

Sex has been an issue since early on in our marriage, especially following her diagnosis. This is not a new issue, just one I have come to peace with.

 

 

There is some affection, but not enough. The problem is I think she thinks I will expect sex if there is any physical contact, at this point I don't really want to put any pressure on her to do anything she doesn't want to. I don't feel the need to be rejected so I don't bother asking. As for sex not being THAT important, that might be easy to say if you have it. It's been 9 months.

[SCFenway]

So she doesn't have to have IUD's, that's all. It sounds as though they are or have become a problem for her. It might alleviate one stress.

 

 

 

 

I never asked her to get one and I never asked her to replace this one. I was a bit surprised that she did.

[elaine567]

What makes you think she would be happy opening up the marriage?

I get you see it as a solution to the lack of sex for you, but are you aware of how difficult it is for many men in open relationships?

Women although they may not be that keen at first - unless it was their idea - do fine, they get loads of attention. go on dates, get lots of sex or if she is monogamous in thinking she quickly meets someone special and get very attached to him and detaches from the marriage...

 

Men get few dates as women tend not to be interested in men in open relationships. Some men in open arrangements have to resort to escorts as the pickings are so meagre.

He starts getting frustrated and jealous of the attention his wife is getting, he attempts to shut it all down, but by that time the bonds that held them together are gone. She has moved on with someone else, or she doesn't want to stop or she resents the husband for suggesting it all in the first place.

Open marriages work best for couples who are both polygamous, who don't get jealous or can manage their jealousy, who are transparent in all dealings and who embrace the lifestyle, they are not really for older, long married couples who are having problems...

[preraph]

The problem is I think she thinks I will expect sex if there is any physical contact.

 

That is a very common phenomenon. Can't even be affectionate without the man wanting to take it further, so you just stop, even though you probably miss the affection. This is why some marriage counselors will give you an exercise that you both understand will NOT lead to sex and just have you doing affection or massages or whatever and not sex, trying to at least get that back. Of course, without the counselor there to say NO sex, it would be hard to do without her coming to the usual conclusion.

 

I think about the only way to approach just affection at this point would be to do it in public (show simple affection, simple touch) where she knows it can't lead to sex and just hold her hand or give her a kiss and then stop and go on about your business and build trust again.

 

Thing is sex is your end game, understandably, but would be nice to just have affection back. She might start feeling better and you might. She may feel like all you want her for is sex, and that is not true.

 

You might want to try some subtle changes to your dress and maybe bring that up just a notch, not enough to be obvious or calculating, and then go out to dinner or a movie or something. Just one little thought.

[SCFenway]

What makes you think she would be happy opening up the marriage?

I get you see it as a solution to the lack of sex for you, but are you aware of how difficult it is for many men in open relationships?

Women although they may not be that keen at first - unless it was their idea - do fine, they get loads of attention. go on dates, get lots of sex or if she is monogamous in thinking she quickly meets someone special and get very attached to him and detaches from the marriage...

 

Men get few dates as women tend not to be interested in men in open relationships. Some men in open arrangements have to resort to escorts as the pickings are so meagre.

He starts getting frustrated and jealous of the attention his wife is getting, he attempts to shut it all down, but by that time the bonds that held them together are gone. She has moved on with someone else, or she doesn't want to stop or she resents the husband for suggesting it all in the first place.

Open marriages work best for couples who are both polygamous, who don't get jealous or can manage their jealousy, who are transparent in all dealings and who embrace the lifestyle, they are not really for older, long married couples who are having problems...

 

 

I am bisexual, so I wouldn't be limited to seeking "dates" from women.

[SCFenway]

That is a very common phenomenon. Can't even be affectionate without the man wanting to take it further, so you just stop, even though you probably miss the affection. This is why some marriage counselors will give you an exercise that you both understand will NOT lead to sex and just have you doing affection or massages or whatever and not sex, trying to at least get that back. Of course, without the counselor there to say NO sex, it would be hard to do without her coming to the usual conclusion.

 

I think about the only way to approach just affection at this point would be to do it in public (show simple affection, simple touch) where she knows it can't lead to sex and just hold her hand or give her a kiss and then stop and go on about your business and build trust again.

 

Thing is sex is your end game, understandably, but would be nice to just have affection back. She might start feeling better and you might. She may feel like all you want her for is sex, and that is not true.

 

You might want to try some subtle changes to your dress and maybe bring that up just a notch, not enough to be obvious or calculating, and then go out to dinner or a movie or something. Just one little thought.

 

 

 

 

Please note that I said "she thinks I will expect it to go further". I don't. At this point sex is not my end game. You seem to think you know where my head is at with this, you don't. She doesn't want sex and I don't want her to do anything she doesn't want to. I don't ask for it because I don't want to pressure her and I don't want to be rejected. Me going to the closet for a costume change isn't going to make her want to jump my bones and at this point that's not what I am after. She has made her choice and it is not up to me to desperately try to change her. Our marriage mostly works, I get most of what I need from her and she gets all of what she needs from me (if sex really is of no interest to her).

[Mr. Lucky]

I am bisexual, so I wouldn't be limited to seeking "dates" from women.

 

Has that had any impact on the sexual disconnect in your marriage? 20+ years is a long time to feel limited in sexual expression...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lotsgoingon]

You're writing as if you've made peace with her complete disinterest in sex. No way are you at peace with that.

 

You're writing as if you are at peace with not approaching her for more affection because you don't want to pressure her to do something she doesn't want to do. Sorry, you're not at peace with this. You've simply given up ... gone hopeless ... the way a kid suffering neglect goes hopeless ... but doesn't want to own up to that feeling.

 

The way cut this Gordian Knot is to own up to YOUR feelings. Own up to the sadness of not having affection with her. Own up to the sense of loss, own up to not feeling close to her like you want. And express these feelings to her. Expressing your sense of sadness about not being touched is NOT pressuring her to touch you when she doesn't want.

 

There is a very good chance your wife is feeling overwhelmed by life. If you have a condition like bipolar, you have to spend a lot of mental energy getting the normal things of life done ... monitoring your moods and behaviors ... ignoring urges and impulses ... and so on ... So it's likely, she feels overwhelmed and stretched by life ... and feels she doesn't have the internal space or energy to open up to sex and affection.

 

It's highly likely that she feels scared that she is disappointing you by being so distant, that she feels like a "failure" as a marriage partner ... but she's feeling stuck and doesn't know how to work through her feelings.

 

As someone else suggested, at some point you guys need some scheduled nights of touch and no sex. Just touch ... Just experience the bliss and joy of touching ... Kissing and touching ... are just magical and it's ironic that we often lose sight of the power of "making out" ... once we start to have sex. You might offer to start out giving her pleasure ... massaging her ... touching her as she wants to be touched.

[preraph]

Okay, well, I got from your original post that the marriage had it all except sex and you were mad she has a BC device when you're not having sex, so seemed to me that was the "something missing" you referred to. But now, with new info that you are bi, I'm thinking you just want permission to have affairs with men probably, not that you even want to have sex with your wife anymore. I assume she knows you're bi? So have you gone all these years without having sex with a man or another woman? Got your eye on anyone? Need more info.

[pepperbird]

 

Yet, this bipolar condition drove her to cheat on you. Let me guess - a therapist came to this conclusion.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheating and other high risk behaviors are incredibly common in people with BPD. In fact, they are often considered symptoms of this mental illness.

[preraph]

^ Yes. When some of them are manic, they can get in a lot of trouble.

[pepperbird]

op,

I know this is going to sound really cheesy. I apologize for that.

 

 

When you and your wife are out together, do you ever just reach out and hold her hand while you're walking?

 

 

 

Sometimes, small acts of affection like that can be really meaningful.

 

About opening your marriage. I wouldn't. You could well add extra stress to your wife that, due to her mental illness, may be too much. This isn't to say that your concerns and grievances aren't valid, just that there could be much better ways of handling them.

 

 

-book an appointment to see a counselor with experience in couples where there is mental illness

 

 

-talk to your wife. let her know your thoughts and feelings, and ask her to speak to her doctor about her low sex drive. if this is just who she is, that likley won't change, but if it's because of her meds. there could be other options.