Companionate Marriage

[mark clemson]

If you wish to stay together, reinvesting in the marriage is a much less risky way to go. Not saying the polyamory can't work, just that it's risky.

 

You develop feelings for a new partner or she gets jealous (even if it's "unwarranted" in that the new partner's not a real threat). Or vice versa. Can be very "destabilizing".

 

Getting her to re-engage so your needs (and hers) are reasonably met is the much safer way to go.

 

Captain Obvious signing out...

[SCFenway]

Things are moving along. We have done the things our therapist has asked of us and it's been fun exploring and talking about our fantasies and desires. We have laid some ground rules if we are to continue and eventually open our marriage. In the meantime we have actually had a little bit of sex.  I think one of the interesting things to come out of this is that we are discovering that not only am I bi, but she is too and that might be one of the ground rules, that we only have same sex couplings outside of our marriage.

[DKT3]

Interesting development...sometime back my wife and I discussed this thread and she suggested that your wife might be gay thus her total indifference towards sex with you.

 

At any rate, my views remain the same..this is merely a slow death to your marriage. Same sex or opposite sex,  its very likely one or both of you will find someone who you prefer since your marriage lack intimacy and romantic connection. 

[OpenBook]

On 11/5/2019 at 5:50 AM, SCFenway said:

Things are moving forward. We have spent more time talking about it and right now we are working on ground rules.

 

 

1. Find a poly/sex positive therapist to help guide us through this

 

 

2. No friends or people we know (people from work, etc)

 

 

3. Not in our home

 

 

She says in some ways she feels relieved by the idea, that I would be more satisfied sexually and she wouldn't feel pressure to be that person for me.

I'm surprised that using protection isn't on that list. Did you discuss the risk of catching an STD or AIDS? Talk about throwing a grenade into your marriage. Safety first!

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, SCFenway said:

 I think one of the interesting things to come out of this is that we are discovering that not only am I bi, but she is too and that might be one of the ground rules, that we only have same sex couplings outside of our marriage.

 

I agree with the point DKT3 made about this still being quite risky.

 

If you are bi, why go outside the marriage when you could look for a unicorn to invite into your marriage instead? (Look up "polyamory unicorn definition" or similar on the web, but basically this typically means a female who is intimate with both of the main partners in a throuple. None of this is ever risk free, but a unicorn approach seems to me a lot less risky than forming potential attachments outside the marriage.

 

But up to you, everyone's different and maybe that would work for you. Definitely suggest you read The Ethical Slut and research serious polyamory resources on the web.

[K.K.]

So I see like .. “polyamory unicorn” as I’m quickly scrolling and realized that I’m not even slightly mature enough for this thread. 

 

 ✌️

 

K.K was here 

[DKT3]

There is a foundation issue here. Thier marriage is basically a platonic relationship.  Without a sexual romantic connection,  inviting people from outside to bridge their gap is a mistake.  Open marriage,  polyamorous relationships swinging and so on all require a higher level connection and commitment within the primary relationship.  Something to anchor them in the marriage.  In this situation it appears to be a friendship.  Since his wife is unwilling to fix the marriage but is all in on having others I dont see the point..what exactly are you trying to save? You could divorce mutually and maintain your friendship, be open to search for your romantic interest. 

[elaine567]

I agree with DKT3, what is the point of all this?
Your wife will go off with the first lover either male or female she can find.
You will be getting blow jobs off Grindr...
Just forget all this, go your separate ways, less messy in the long run.

[snowcones]

They're probably staying together for finances and fear of change.  Getting new and exciting/steady lovers will help them deal with the fear of change, but the finances will always be an issue (and that's why a lot of couples stay together).

Edited December 13, 2019 by snowcones

[SCFenway]

Safe sex is absolutely one of the rules. Sorry for not posting that. As for her being gay, maybe that is it. If it is so be it and I assume we would find a way to end things. Other than that, we stay together because we are very close and have been together more than half our lives. We are raising our child together and all other aspects of the relationship are really pretty great. We are each others best friends and champions.

[mark clemson]

A marriage/relationship can tolerate almost anything so long as one thing holds - both of the people want to be together.  The flip side of this is that as soon as one is genuinely done, it's over or at best a house of cards. Dealbreakers, etc.

 

One thing that can cause one of you to be genuinely done would be a strong emotional attachment to someone outside the marriage (e.g. via sex). Hence the value of the unicorn/throuple vice "swinging".

 

Either way, be careful.

Edited December 13, 2019 by mark clemson

[DKT3]

He is starved for an intimate relationship,  I just dont think he is thinking clearly.  His wifes excitement,  to me, would be enough to be done with the marriage.  

 

It would be a better option to just day to hell with an intimate relationship,  stay in the same home co-parent and do as you please outside of the home. 

 

This way you can maintain the platonic relationship as is. Maybe this is where this will end up. 

 

Bottom line of this in my opinion,  your wife simply isn't sexually attracted to you,  thus her excitement of the open idea.  It doesn't change the status of your relationship, she can stop cheating and openly engage others.  She has already been in an open relationship,  your just catching up.  

 

I think soon after you get involved with another you will have the Forgetting Sarah Marshall experience,  were you start to realize that the relationship was never what you thought it was, and your wife never the woman you think she is.

 

All my negative opinions aside, I really wish you the best of luck, it's so obvious that this has caused you a great deal of pain and you cant see a clear path forward and doing the best you can. 

[Watercolors]

On 3/22/2019 at 9:27 AM, Mrs._December said:

Just call a spade a spade.

 

Best advice ever. As my favorite Irish playwright Oscar Wilde wrote about in his play, The Importance of Being Earnest, people all wear the shallow mask of manners, regardless of what social circles they run in. As Earnest's ward Cecily called out Gwendolyn Fairfax for accusing her of trying to steal her guardian Earnest from Gwendolyn, when she said, "When I see a spade, I call it a spade." 

 

You know your wife. We don't. Tell her point blank that you need sex and want to seek sex from other women in a safe way. Also, you need to understand that prior to menopause, perimenopause happens. Both conditions are hormonal. Both conditions mess with the woman's sex drive. Sometimes the hormonal shift is so drastic, the woman will completely lose her sex drive. Her mental illness has NOTHING to do with the biological changes happening to her hormonally. Now, it doesn't help. But she's capable of deciding whether or not to have sex with you. If she's had EA's with men in the past, that was due to her choosing to seek attention outside her marriage to you instead of just talk to you about her concerns. 

I think the real issue here isn't lack of sex. I think the real issue with your marriage has been poor communication skills between you and your wife. And by that I mean, for some reason, you two don't feel safe totally being emotionally vulnerable with each other -- showing each other your humanity. Or, you wouldn't be questioning how to approach your wife to ask her if you can open the marriage up to other sexual partners. 

 

Simplest way to resolve this: just tell her what you want. Either she'll accommodate you or she won't. 

On 12/13/2019 at 7:50 AM, SCFenway said:

Safe sex is absolutely one of the rules. Sorry for not posting that. As for her being gay, maybe that is it. If it is so be it and I assume we would find a way to end things. Other than that, we stay together because we are very close and have been together more than half our lives. We are raising our child together and all other aspects of the relationship are really pretty great. We are each others best friends and champions.

 

You may be close but the red flags that contradict this statement are her emotional affairs, and your fear of talking to your wife of 25 years about needing sex that she hasn't been consistently providing to you. Like I suggested to you in my previous post, I think the real issue here isn't lack of sex -- that's just a symptom of the larger problem, which is, the lack of trust and communication between you and your wife.

 

If there was real trust between you two, you'd be able to speak frankly with each other about EVERYTHING happening to each of you, as you each change over the years. No one stays the same. People change. Some marriages can't survive people changing because one partner doesn't like it or support it. T

 

he marriages that last, like my grandparents marriage, is because they both accepted each other through each stage of their life and they were together from 16 years old until they both died. They changed as people over the years and survived raising children, financial problems (3 bankruptcies), health problems and hospitalizations, family arguments and estrangements, and spiritual crises. Yet, they never abandoned each other. They never shamed each other. They never doubted each other. They just remained loyal to each other despite everything. They were more than roommates - although I'm sure they felt like that too at times -- they were soul mates. 

[SCFenway]

Contrary to the expectations of many in this thread things are actually working out quite well. The wife and I are having more intimacy on our own and we have both begun to explore intimacy outside of the marriage within a strict set of ground rules, other than the ones posted previously she asked that the open aspect of our marriage apply only to people of the same sex. Her feeling on this is that we are less likely to develop true feelings for that person since we have both presented as hetero-romantic for so long.

[Baman]

On 1/3/2020 at 4:12 AM, SCFenway said:

Contrary to the expectations of many in this thread things are actually working out quite well. 

And that is all that really matters.

Everyone will throw opinions of a marriage they are not in. Think hard on the negative comments for questions to ask yourself and proceed one step at a time. If you followed most of the advice ( I read the entire thread) , by now you would probably be divorced. Instead you are further along your journey together exploring a new model that may just be the fix you both need. And if it still ends, what have you lost? 

Better to have tried and failed than not try at all...

good luck on your brave adventure, 95% of the population would not have your or your wife's courage to even try.

ps. get some books to read. 'opening up'' and 'the ethical slut'' are good reading as are the books, podcasts and TED talks by Ester Perell.

[SCFenway]

Hey, wanted to update...things were going great prior to the whole Covid thing. We were both "dating" and having our needs met and reinvesting in our marriage in other ways. Now that we are isolated we are quite a bit more sexual with each other since we had gotten used to physical contact.

[mark clemson]

Glad to hear things have improved for you!

[SCFenway]

The pandemic has made this tough, but each of us finding someone/thing that interested us prior to the shutdowns of everything did allow us to explore more with each other when that was all we had.

 

We play more with each other now but still seek out other partners.

[Stupidkupid]

Glad its working out for you but its interesting that you are both bi and yet you don't feel like you could develop feelings for the sane sex.

I don't know. This really got me. Its such an odd view.

FYI, I'm bi and consider both men and women equally in that respect.

I'm happy its had some positive impacts on your marriage but that, above, is odd to me.

[mark clemson]

Well, you're still together a year later so that's something...

[SCFenway]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:37 PM, Stupidkupid said:

Glad its working out for you but its interesting that you are both bi and yet you don't feel like you could develop feelings for the sane sex.

I don't know. This really got me. Its such an odd view.

FYI, I'm bi and consider both men and women equally in that respect.

I'm happy its had some positive impacts on your marriage but that, above, is odd to me.

Bisexuality isn't one thing, it's a spectrum. I am bisexual and heteroromantic

[SCFenway]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:51 PM, mark clemson said:

Well, you're still together a year later so that's something...

Where else is there to go right now, lol

[mark clemson]

^^ true. But if you were to actually separate, you'd need time to settle in to a new life, etc, so from that perspective it might make sense to do that now. However, perhaps you've reached a sort of "settled state" (at least temporarily) and there is no need to separate.

It seems your wife has had other partners (as have you) and yet no one has traipsed off with someone else. (Or am I misunderstanding your recent post about "playing"?)  Perhaps you are one of the rare couples for whom something like this works. IF that seems to be true, I would caution that you're probably at the start of a "long haul" and so should stay cautious about the LT success of this approach. But you never know, perhaps it will work for you.

Edited April 24, 2021 by mark clemson