Learning to be friends after the A

[GuySimple]

But were any of your spouses, who had the A. In love with the OW/OM? And was your M rocky before it happened. See this is my porblem now. Any advice would be great, or read some of my other posts.

 

Absolutely. It was everything that I was looking for in a relationship. I was definitely in love. It still seems like it was yesterday. I have seen her once (purely professional) and emailed once in 7 years and both times I still felt a connection. After I came back to my W I still had times when I wanted to run back to the OW. Sometimes it was very tough staying. However, as I work through the whole ordeal it became clearer and clearer where I wanted to be and why. I looked back on that relationship to find out what it was that felt right and I have used that as a basis for finding out what I needed in my marriage.

 

For those of you who have been on the other side of an affair that may seem very cold. But realize that both sides do a lot of soul searching, not just the one who got hurt.

[RecordProducer]

Oh, I don't know, RP, you just always seem to be ...what's the word I'm looking for..."snippy" in your comments, and not just to me. I can well imagine you sitting in your chair with a latte in one hand, a smirk on your face, just dreaming up quirky remarks.

You have a condencending air to your written words.

IMO

 

Does that answer your question?

As we say here in the South, okey dokey.

 

Forgive your husband and trust him unconditionally. :) :)

[sugar-rae]

Forgive your husband and trust him unconditionally. :) :)

 

Wow! Now did that hurt?

See, RP, you CAN be...well...sweet.

 

You have to admit, tho', your avatar does have the look I described you as earlier.

 

[CHAZ87]

Ding, ding. Fighters to your corners.

 

However, as I work through the whole ordeal it became clearer and clearer where I wanted to be and why. I looked back on that relationship to find out what it was that felt right and I have used that as a basis for finding out what I needed in my marriage.

 

I guess my wife is just not there yet. Were you and your wife separated? I would love nothing more then to have the six month trial her friend said to give us. Oh well, boogers can't be choosers.

[veronese]

takes two tempted people to have an affair. Maybe you have never been so angry, frustrated or had a since of hopelessness in your marriage.

 

When you are lonely and need of an emotional bond. Couple that with someone who comes along at just that moment and gives you all of that. ...it becomes a selfish self-preservation thing where the feelings of the spouse don’t mean as much. They may in fact be the enemy.

 

I don’t believe that when one partner does something wrong, like have an affair automatically gives the other licence to behave in a manor that is also damaging to the relationship while at the same time playing the victim.

 

why the same people who feel that an affair is so bad and such a horrible disrespectful thing can easily justify the deceit that comes with some of the devices mentioned in these threads.

 

 

 

GS I agree with many of your points, people don't generally plan on having affairs but nevertheless somehow end up having them, often when they are particularly low or vulnerable.

 

You're so right too about the danger of a BS causing further damage to the marriage by becoming essentially, quite an unlikable character.

 

Unfortunately the nature of betrayal ensures that the BS becomes just that...I know I'm not proud of some of the things I have done...not so much because of the effects they've had on my H but more because of the effects it's had on my children and my self-respect.

 

Furthermore, the quite ludicrous and intrusive lengths we go to in the attempt to check up on our spouses is clearly quite embarressing, but more importantly occurs purely because of what is often a devestating shock to us.

 

Quite simply when you have loved and trusted someone for some considerable time (in my case 17 years), the realisation that you have been lied to in this way tends to leave you confused and insecure and frankly a little mentally unstable.

 

Invarioubly the BS then finds out the details and extent of the affair not, as they would prefer, from their spouses mouths but as result of extracting the info bit by bit, indeed much like getting blood out of a stone. Total honesty doesn't come automatically to those who are familiar with deceit. The unfaithful spouses are reluctant to confess to more than they have to.

 

Truthfully GS, if BS were told the truth at the start, if their early, clumsy attempts to convince their partners not to lie or deceive them anymore were successful, their subsequent efforts to double check the facts would result in no fresh or contradictory details and so ending the investigation sooner rather than later.

 

Regrettfully they rarely get the full story without a struggle, every time they stumble headlong into examples of the betrayal, the wound gets deeper and takes longer to heal.

 

It's certainly a very undignified manner of behaviour and brings no pleasure to the person reduced to an obsessive, neurotic, suspicious, miserable wreck.

 

Can we be friends again one day? It all depends. Like you said GF.....

 

A marriage is a partnership.

 

It takes two to make it work

 

When I discovered my H's affairs and lengthy duration of his deception, I could finally see how for many, many years it was me who put the energy, attention and devotion into our marriage, not him. Admittedly I was probably doing everything wrong and as we know, I failed miserably.

 

I am to blame for numerous aspects of the problems in my marriage. But equally so was he. On reflection I could see he had been distinctly lack lustre in nurturing our love, then unbelievably continued along this vein post DD. While I devoted hours and hours on solutions and information on how best to repair and save our marriage, he sat back and did basically nothing.

 

To be friends again we have to show each other kindness, care and lots of love. When I look around at married couples I seldom see genuine consideration, respect and pleasure between them. More often I witness staggering displays of blatant antagonism and petty bickering.

 

Its unwise to exist in an unhealthy marriage indefinitely but it can be difficult finding the strength to call it a day. I guess we just have to learn by our mistakes and make whatever changes to improve things as is possible.

 

Being only mortal though our progress is sadly restricted!

 

v x

[sugar-rae]

I just wanted to say thank you, Veronese, for your post this morning. I read it and identified with {{{every single word}}}.

 

MY marriage was 12 yrs old when my H cheated. (it's now been 4 yrs since the A happened & ended)I had got into thinking, hey we've been married 12 yrs, maybe I'm past the "cheating stage".

Wrongo! There is no expiration date or statute of limitations on cheating.

 

My H has until very very recently started to realize he has to put some effort into the marriage.

I think alot of his "lazy" attitude toward the repair of our marriage has to do with people around him after he confessed was "well, just forget it ever happened, don't think about and move on. dragging it up won't help get over it"

 

I was even advised, not a week after the A came out, by his aunt, no less, "don't cry infront of him. if you ever feel the urge just go off to yourself and do it."

This advice and most like it was from family members (mine as well as his) who thought he was a golden boy. Hugely surprised he had cheated on ANYONE and it must have had alot to do with me. No one "like him" would do that in {normal} circumstances. He must have had a really good reason.

 

I take responsibility for my part in the marriage of being a bitch before he cheated, but I had gone through 12 yrs of begging for attention. My H thought as long as he said he loved me before heading off to work or holding my hand "in public" when I asked him to, that was his role.

 

I thought, hey, his parents weren't loving when he was a child, he just needs to learn how to hug, kiss, love. I thought if he saw how to do these things, and knew I cared for him as his parents obviously were too wrapped up in their own lives to, he'd come around.

 

Some will say, well, there you go. That's why he cheated, bad past family problems.

 

Maybe a small factor, but when you are around people who are loving (like me and our kids were/are toward each other and him), then you begin to see that there are people who will be there for you, ones you can trust your feelings and love with.

 

Maybe he's finally getting that fact.

 

So, Veronese, again thank you. I'm going to copy your post and save it because it says so much to me, to my heart

[veronese]

 

I just wanted to say thank you, Veronese, for your post this morning. I read it and identified with {{{every single word}}}.

 

You're more than welcome SR

 

family members (mine as well as his) thought he was a golden boy. Hugely surprised he had cheated on ANYONE and it must have had alot to do with me. No one "like him" would do that in {normal} circumstances. He must have had a really good reason.

 

Mine too, nobody, not one single person, gave him a bollocking - not even my bloody parents. I'm convinced there was a consensus of opinion that a guy as gorgeous and likeable as he is must have had good reason (yeah, me!) to have done what he did.

 

Single friends advised me not to turn into one of those wives who guard their men henceforth, and were quite vocal in announcing their belief that a week was a long enough to whine and wail about it. In fact, most of them didn't express horror or contempt for him but on the contrary were more critical towards me. The wives who have experienced it were amazing, the wives yet to have that pleasure were smug and condescening

 

Veronese, again thank you. I'm going to copy your post and save it because it says so much to me, to my heart ] [/quote

 

We'll get through it hun, one day at a time

 

v xx

[GuySimple]

In my situation, unknown to me, my wife was told by friends and family to suck it up and get back together for the children. That these things happen and it was better to stay together. Basically, don’t deal with it. So she didn’t and hid it for a number of years. Now we are dealing with it now like we should have years ago. But it is far more complicated now. The feelings have been internalized and festered for a long time.

 

I also heard all the comments about how surprised that I would do such a thing. The one that use to really get me was “you came from such a nice family I can imagine how you could do that to your wife”. As you can tell by my threads I the whole self-righteous crap P me off. Especially when it comes from other men who’s model for a good relationship seem to be taken from sometime back when our knuckles were dragging on the ground.

 

I expect those who have survived affairs, and have dealt with it with a sense of mutual respect, have stronger relationships after the fact. They are never the same. They may not love each other the same. But if they have truly worked through the pain, hurt and trust issues, I expect they are much better able to voice their thoughts and feeling than before the affair. This is not to endorse the idea. But to recognize that out of every disaster there comes some positive changes.

[michelangelo]

GS,

 

I think what bugs me about your commentaries is the flipping of the victimization role to that of the cheater being a victim or circumstance, a drag of a spouse, the weather, etc.

 

It's a total cop op for you to believe that only cheaters have been tempted. Or that that hangnail made you cheat.

 

You and I both know that all marriages hit low spots.

 

Take responsibility for your actions utterly and completely. And stop being annoyed with your wife for taking too long to express her anger and pain to you.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it is to express such a humilatiing feeling to the very one who caused that pain? The one who is supposed to protect and nurture you away from any pain?

 

Nobody and no situation caused you to violate your marriage vow. The only thing that caused you to violate your marriage vow to your spouse is yourself, your decision to do it.

 

So, again, what is it you are doing now to help your wife get beyond your cheating behavior?

[GuySimple]

Ah, the marriage vow’s. Do you honestly think that in most relationships where one partner has sought someone outside the marriage that the innocent partner has done their best to uphold their marriage vow’s? Quite possibly the non-offending partner has equally checked out of the marriage but just not climbed into someone else’s bed. What about the situation where one partner has emotionally checked out of the marriage but physically stayed? What about the W or F&%K’s their H every night but emotionally she thinking about someone else. Is that OK? She stayed in the M so it must be.

 

I’m not trying to be the victim here, just trying to point out that just because one spouse decided to have an affair doesn’t make the non-offending W or H any better of a partner than they were before the affair. If an H physically or emotionally abuses their W, and the W decides to seek comfort in another man that does not somehow absolve the H of the things he did. Sure there is a better way but just sometimes things may be in such an emotional state that we forget what’s on page 62 of the marriage manual.

 

You seem to be having a problem with a viewpoint that doesn’t portray a “cheater” as a totally insensitive, low life, scum-sucking SOB. That people who “cheat” are all bad people and their partner are victims. Sorry, that’s too simple for me. It lets people off the hook when maybe they should be also looking inward.

 

There are two sides to every relationship. You’ve got to understand both sides; it doesn’t mean you have to like it. Taking such a one-sided approach will probably only push people only further away.

[Trimmer]

GS -

 

You are combining the behavior of the cheater with the behavior of the betrayed spouse into one premise, by saying, effectively "the fact that the cheater strayed doesn't make the betrayed spouse (say, one who has emotionally checked out) any better a person." Is that a basically correct restatement of your premise?

 

Well then, I can actually agree to that, but then I insist on linking the same two behaviors but in the other direction: The fact that one spouse has checked out emotionally doesn't mitigate my opinion that cheating is an insensitive, scum-sucking, low-life behavior (your terms, I just thought them appropriately chosen...)

 

I go back to my earlier post in this thread about affairs that "just happen". In fact, I maintain that what happens within the marriage to set the stage for cheating is a 50/50 responsibility and I accept my part of that as a BS, but that it quite often happens by virtue of neglect rather than willful negligence.

 

But independent of that, cheating is a 100% responsibility of one spouse, and happens by making decisions and executing behaviors.

[sugar-rae]

It lets people off the hook when maybe they should be also looking inward.

 

Just because the (soon to be) BS is a b*tch or naggy or have a jealous nature, doesn't make them deserve to be cheated on.

[CHAZ87]

You know there were some times when I would agree with GS, I know personally that an A is a relationship changing event. To me, I don't think anybody deserves this and retaliation is out of the question. My SO can be a nagging pain in the @ss, she may disagree with this, but I respected her enough not to cheat. She says that she did everything to ensure that I not look the other way. Smoken body, awsome in bed, and a great mother. But she did not fullfil a couple of my needs and I still didn't stick it somewhere it shouldn't have been. Every instance where there is an A, I will agree, both parties played a vital role in the breakdown of the relationship. But, IMHO, I still see an A as a extremely selfish thing to do to another human being who gave out there trust freely. I will agree that A's don't "Just happen" that they do get to a point were the WS says, "Ok, lets Fu(k." It is a choice they make.

[sugar-rae]

You know there were some times when I would agree with GS, I know personally that an A is a relationship changing event. To me, I don't think anybody deserves this and retaliation is out of the question. My SO can be a nagging pain in the @ss, she may disagree with this, but I respected her enough not to cheat. She says that she did everything to ensure that I not look the other way. Smoken body, awsome in bed, and a great mother. But she did not fullfil a couple of my needs and I still didn't stick it somewhere it shouldn't have been.

 

I think when you truly, deeply, with your heart & soul LOVE someone, it's easy to say to the person tempting you to cheat, "hey, I'm married. committed. taken."

I love my H with all my heart, even after he's cheated. I couldn't no more cheat today than I could the day we married. It's not in me to do that.

[CHAZ87]

I think when you truly, deeply, with your heart & soul LOVE someone, it's easy to say to the person tempting you to cheat, "hey, I'm married. committed. taken."

I love my H with all my heart, even after he's cheated. I couldn't no more cheat today than I could the day we married. It's not in me to do that.

 

 

My problem was, my whole heart and soul weren't in it. It is now with reconciliation in mind. Right now I am the only one thinking it. I won't bring it up in conversation any more. My SO says she is full of guilt and self-hate. Now I guess this is where GS could be a little help in understanding what she is going through. What kind of time did you take for yourself to wanting to reconcile? Did you seperate?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do love her deeply. Sad thing is, it took 7 years of marriage, 11 years of being together, and 1 big 'ol A to get me to finally see what was really there. The strongest feelings I have ever felt for the woman who walked down the aisle with me, were repressed for so long, then they came flooding out. I just hope there is something there worth saving.

[sugar-rae]

My problem was, my whole heart and soul weren't in it. It is now with reconciliation in mind. Right now I am the only one thinking it. I won't bring it up in conversation any more. My SO says she is full of guilt and self-hate. Now I guess this is where GS could be a little help in understanding what she is going through. What kind of time did you take for yourself to wanting to reconcile? Did you seperate?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do love her deeply. Sad thing is, it took 7 years of marriage, 11 years of being together, and 1 big 'ol A to get me to finally see what was really there. The strongest feelings I have ever felt for the woman who walked down the aisle with me, were repressed for so long, then they came flooding out. I just hope there is something there worth saving.

 

I haven't read all your posts, did your W cheat? or you?

 

As for me, I didn't take any time. He confessed and acted like he wanted to be with the OW, I begged him to stay and he did. He broke it off with her the day he told me about it. She didn't like it and tried to make our lives he!!.

I am ashamed that I begged him to stay. I should have told him to go to he!! and kicked him out and MADE him see what she was, a spineless gold digger. I didn't.

It happened 4 yrs ago, and just now he's beginning to "get it" the point of why I asked him to come back. Because I love him.

See, the cheater has to see the betrayed's pain and anguish before they can truly understand what they did.

My H had to see the total melt down of me. I was a blubbering jellyfish for weeks and even lost weight because of nerves. He could see physically and mentally what his betrayal had done.

I could go on for hours, but you get my point.

[CHAZ87]

Oh yeah I get the point. She had the A.http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t66099/

There's my life, well at least since June 30th. D-day. One of my SO's biggest complaints was my lack of physical fitness. OM is a triathelete and marathon runner. Rah, Rah, Rah, F-him. Well, I lost 30 pounds in like 2 weeks afterwards. I took up running, try to do at least 15 miles a week, sometimes more. And today, she still makes the comment,"I thought you were going to join a gym and work on your abs."

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t42684/

 

This one too. Happy reading.

[GuySimple]

Maybe here in lies the problem with the way I see an affair and the after effects. In my case my wife was not the most loving individual. In fact she could be down-right cold sometimes. There was very little emotional closeness in our relationship. Right down to the lack of a good-bye kiss and hug in the morning. She used the excuse that she was just not that warm of a person. Me on the other hand tried to be as understanding as I could. The whole thing, romantic dinners, flowers, understanding, read every GD book on the subject and put it into practice. I was a F’in Casanova and Mother Teresa all rolled into one.

 

What finally was probably the undoing of our relationship is when I went on a business trip phoned home and she ripped my head off about something incredibly petty. Two nights later I found myself in a really crappy mood sitting in front of someone who said all the right things.

 

Not every affair is the same and not every situation is the same. I have an incredible amount of anger still in me about the way I was treated prior (and since) the affair. To be blunt, the biggest mistake I made was finding someone else. Not only because it damaged my wife’s feelings but also because it is prevented her from seeing pasted it to deal with the real issues in our relationship.

 

The problem was made worse by the MC we went to because when whole truth of our relationship came out my W was the one on the hot seat, not me, and that p’ed her off and she shut down. Now, I am still dealing with the same BS as I was years ago only I have this complicating factor that was added.

 

If I had any advice to give anyone today who was in my situation and thing of having an affair I would say don’t, just leave.

 

Would I do it all over again? Absolutely not. I’d just leave, split up the assets and find someone else who had a pint of warm blood running through their veins.

 

To those who have truly tried to make their relationship work and had someone destroy your trust and marriage by having an affair, my heart goes out to you. You didn’t deserve it and you should have been treated better.

 

To those of you who have hid behind a piece of paper but did nothing to contribute to the emotional bond of your partner and behaved in a manor counter to a loving spouse…I say did you think you could continue behaving so poorly in a relationship and not eventually have the other person push back in some way.

 

Geez that felt good.

[sugar-rae]

I'm sure glad you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. You must be so proud of yourself for the big bad thing you did. YOU DID.

Wow, your cold wife really deserved being done that way. I tell ya!

 

I guess whatever helps you to lay your head down and sleep at night...

[sylviaguardian]

Maybe here in lies the problem with the way I see an affair and the after effects. In my case my wife was not the most loving individual. In fact she could be down-right cold sometimes. There was very little emotional closeness in our relationship. Right down to the lack of a good-bye kiss and hug in the morning. She used the excuse that she was just not that warm of a person. Me on the other hand tried to be as understanding as I could. The whole thing, romantic dinners, flowers, understanding, read every GD book on the subject and put it into practice. I was a F’in Casanova and Mother Teresa all rolled into one.

 

What finally was probably the undoing of our relationship is when I went on a business trip phoned home and she ripped my head off about something incredibly petty. Two nights later I found myself in a really crappy mood sitting in front of someone who said all the right things.

 

QUOTE]

 

GS,

 

I agree with some of the things you said, however I was in that position, My H is, by his nature, a 'cold' person - he is not naturally affectionate, physical, romantic etc. I tried as much as I could (organising dinner, weekend away, calling him often etc) but the truth is I felt SO lonely. We went to a wedding together shortly before I found out about the A and I remember feeling like crying because they seemed so happy and I felt so alone.

 

The difference is that it would have taken a he11 of a lot more than some guy saying the right things to me, for me to do something that I believed to be wrong. What stopped me? The look on my husband's face if he ever found out - the hurt and disappointment in his eyes and having to live with that disappointment in myself forever.

 

It didn't stop you and it didn't stop my husband. What's the answer? In truth I think some people are stronger than others. There's no more to it than that. It's like some people will devour a box of chocolates if it's left in front of them if they're hungry. Some people will even do when they're not hungry simply because they're there. Others will think past the chocolates to how they will feel afterwards and make the decision not to open the box.

[sugar-rae]

GS,

 

I agree with some of the things you said, however I was in that position, My H is, by his nature, a 'cold' person - he is not naturally affectionate, physical, romantic etc. I tried as much as I could (organising dinner, weekend away, calling him often etc) but the truth is I felt SO lonely. We went to a wedding together shortly before I found out about the A and I remember feeling like crying because they seemed so happy and I felt so alone.

 

The difference is that it would have taken a he11 of a lot more than some guy saying the right things to me, for me to do something that I believed to be wrong. What stopped me? The look on my husband's face if he ever found out - the hurt and disappointment in his eyes and having to live with that disappointment in myself forever.

 

It didn't stop you and it didn't stop my husband. What's the answer? In truth I think some people are stronger than others. There's no more to it than that. It's like some people will devour a box of chocolates if it's left in front of them if they're hungry. Some people will even do when they're not hungry simply because they're there. Others will think past the chocolates to how they will feel afterwards and make the decision not to open the box.

 

It truly amazes me that I can still read things I can TOTALLY agree with and think "Wow, there's someone out there that understands how I feel".

I don't know how many posts I've read (like yours SG) and it must never sink into my head that I'm not alone in my feelings & thoughts.

[Scott S]

GS,

I think what bugs me about your commentaries is the flipping of the victimization role to that of the cheater being a victim or circumstance, a drag of a spouse, the weather, etc.

 

This is what happened with my ex. She & the OM had it in mind that they were innocent victims of circumstance, bearing no responsibilty for what they did. What left me incredulous was how she seemed to feel about the way the OM's own wife as handling it (essentially out to leave them without a pot to p*ss in.). She could not understand why she was acting so "unreasonably."

 

I must assume my share of responsibility for the relationship, of course. I believe we both entered into it for the wrong reasons in the first place, & both brought unrealistic expectations into it. We both could have worked a lot harder at it. However, there was nothing to justify adultery.

 

I can only hope that as time has gone by, that all concerned have matured & learned from their mistakes. I've tried to, & hopefully, Gina finds me to be a good husband on account of it.

[Guest]

Sugar-Rae,

First of all, my big hugs for you. I like you said " that spineless gold digger"

That is really true. But my recently husband recently realized that very well.

[sugar-rae]

Sugar-Rae,

First of all, my big hugs for you. I like you said " that spineless gold digger"

That is really true. But my recently husband recently realized that very well.

 

Well, I'm sure there are circumstances where the OW isn't pure evil. I just stated that the OW in my H's affair WAS pure evil. Still is from what I hear.