You Really Can't Teach an Old Dog New Tricks

[vla1120]

Last week, I almost posted about how my husband (from whom I am separated) has been so much better, lately. I waited one day too long.

 

My question is at the bottom. Hopefully, the rest is not too verbose!

 

To quickly summarize my situation, We've been married almost 5 years. We married quickly because he had no health insurance and was diagnosed with stage III kidney cancer. Shortly after marriage, I realized the error I had made because he is controlling, verbally/emotionally abusive, tried to isolate me from my grown daughters and friends, etc. Last summer, I left, but remained as his caregiver. I deal with all of his administrative health insurance and medical issues. I do not mind doing this because he is alone here in the U.S., except for his son who lives in upstate NY. The guilt was getting to me, but after 3-4 years of counseling, I no longer feel guilty. Empathetic, yes. Guilty, no.

 

Anyways, my method with him (and I told him this) was to remain helpful and friendly as long as he was treating me with respect. If he crossed the line, POOF! I would disappear from his life again until he learned to appreciate that I am the ONLY person he has to help him, and mistreating me will get him nowhere but completely alone. He messed up between Thanksgiving and Christmas and I stopped contacting him. (He called me a slut (again) because before I left him, I spent one night at my daughter's house. His belief is that any wife who sleeps away from the home is a slut.)

 

In mid-March, he texted me to ask me for help with a medical issue. I sorted that out for him. Then, he asked for my guidance to buy a new car and get some new furniture delivered. I helped him. He was being very pleasant and appreciative. I was sure to compliment him on how well things were going, and that I had no problem spending time with him under these circumstances - and even enjoyed his company.

 

We spent much of this weekend together, watching movies, etc. It was enjoyable. All was well. When I left last night, I told him I had Sunday off and maybe we could spend some time together (not realizing it was Easter Sunday.)

 

This morning, my daughter reminded me it was Easter. We're having dinner together at my house. I asked them if they'd mind having him there, as well, so he did not have to spend it alone. They don't like him, but they are sympathetic to his situation and said of course they don't mind. I texted him and said this:

 

"I just realized Sunday is Easter. I had told the girls we would have Easter together this year. Would you consider coming to my house for Easter?

 

My other option is to spend the day with them and come to see you later in the afternoon. I could even spend the night since I don't have to work until 5pm on Monday. Let me know what you think."

 

His response:

 

"You also had promised Christmas with me, but promises differ depending on who you promise. Nevermind. I will let you enjoy your Easter and about the afternoon, you can do what you want. You should invite them to our trip to the West. Don't you worry. I never believed about any trips you had planned."

 

I was planning to take him out west, if he feels well enough, because seeing the Grand Canyon and Death Valley was on his bucket list. I even cleared the trip with his doctor. It was a surprise for his birthday (which was Sunday.) When I told him about it, he started picking apart the trip and every plan I had made. I told him we could do whatever he wants to do because it all depends upon how he feels. The trip is for him. I want him to enjoy our plans. However, every time I try to plan a trip for him, he's so negative about it that it doesn't happen. It's got nothing to do with me not keeping a promise about trips! I spent $3,000 for tickets to go to Greece to see his family (as a surprise) in September 2017 and I took a huge loss on the tickets because he did not want to go at that time (we went in December instead), so I no longer pay money for ANYTHING until I know he's okay with the dates/plans.

 

So, HERE IS MY QUESTION:

 

Taking into consideration that I will not turn my back completely on this man because of his health condition, I should be able to help him without losing my sense of self in the process. My question is how? In his world, everything is black and white. He is not the slightest bit flexible. If I say I am going to call him at 6pm and I call him at 6:05pm, I've lied to him and I am untrustworthy. Seriously. He is this black and white.

 

I'm thinking of perhaps writing up some type of contract with him, stating that I am willing to do this, this, and this, but if you do such-and-such, it's a deal breaker. I can include in the contract that I have flexibility with times (considering I have two jobs and work seven days a week, most weeks.) and that he needs to learn to suck it up if I don't do EXACTLY what I say I am going to do EXACTLY when I say I will do it. How can I convince him to accept that he needs to have a bit of flexibility (if I even can convince him)?

 

I am open to ideas. One thing I know about myself is that I will keep trying to help him until the day he dies from this cancer, because that is who I am. I wish there was a way to make him realize that it would be in his best interest to be a little nicer to me. Hell, he would have had me AND my three daughters to take care of him at the end of his life, if he weren't such a controlling, miserable a$$.

 

For anyone who has read this far into the post (and thank you for that), when you are complaining because you don't get enough sex, maybe you ought to step back and be thankful you're not dealing with a much more serious situation than having to get yourself off to porn once in awhile because your wife's sex drive has decreased. (OOPS! Did I just say that out loud??)

[preraph]

Your letter sounds fine to me. I'm glad he can occasionally be pleasant. You're good to try to help him under the circumstances. He has a lot of resentment -- or he is just an unhappy man in general, and now of course his disease is making him depressed and angry. But you said he was already like this, so....

 

You can try to set some rules. He will probably just pitch a defensive fit.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Why is he so insecure? People behave this way out of insecurity. I think I'd just keep doing what you're doing. No contract (won't be honored anyway). So, for instance, after he sent you that nasty text about Easter Sunday, you could have responded with, "Suit yourself. I'll drop off a plate of leftovers sometime Monday." I wouldn't engage. Just respond nicely, but with no emotion.

 

(Your last paragraphed cracked me up.)

[Rotaglia]

For anyone who has read this far into the post (and thank you for that), when you are complaining because you don't get enough sex, maybe you ought to step back and be thankful you're not dealing with a much more serious situation than having to get yourself off to porn once in awhile because your wife's sex drive has decreased. (OOPS! Did I just say that out loud??)

How about zero sex? Can I complain about that? I'm 49 and she's 56.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm thinking of perhaps writing up some type of contract with him, stating that I am willing to do this, this, and this, but if you do such-and-such, it's a deal breaker. I can include in the contract that I have flexibility with times (considering I have two jobs and work seven days a week, most weeks.) and that he needs to learn to suck it up if I don't do EXACTLY what I say I am going to do EXACTLY when I say I will do it. How can I convince him to accept that he needs to have a bit of flexibility (if I even can convince him)?

 

Why would you possibly think he has the ability - or intention - to live up to his end of such an agreement?

 

You have to simply stop caring about what he thinks. I've done volunteer work where I've been cursed at and threatened by some of the recipients, many of whom have mental issues similar to your ex. Doesn't bother me as I don't do it for their appreciation, I'm involved because I want to help and be of service.

 

You may need to similarly step back and look at things the same way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

How about zero sex? Can I complain about that? I'm 49 and she's 56.

 

You can complain about anything you want! This is a great place to vent. The same way I have no control over my husband’s poor behavior, you have no control over your wife’s behavior. I guess we both have to suck it up and accept the situation as it is for now. We just have different things we’re sacrificing at the moment. For you, it is sex. For me, it is my sanity.:lmao:

[vla1120]

Why would you possibly think he has the ability - or intention - to live up to his end of such an agreement?

 

I know he does not have the capability. We spoke after I posted this thread. He was being very unreasonable. He does believe he is the victim and I am mistreating him. You are right, Mr. Lucky. I need to step back and remember I am not doing this for the appreciation. I am also not doing this out of guilt. I am doing this because a human being needs help and I am the only one close enough to help him. I need to learn to disregard his inappropriate comments and maintain healthy boundaries. I am taking a screen shot of this and making it my background as a reminder!!

 

Thank you, everyone.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am doing this because a human being needs help and I am the only one close enough to help him. I need to learn to disregard his inappropriate comments and maintain healthy boundaries.

 

Kudos to you for being such a caring person. You'll have to accept some things will still hurt, sometime life allows only the "best worst option" to choose from.

 

Stay strong...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Wallysbears]

You have a good heart

[preraph]

She's having boundaries and not letting herself be manipulated. This is how it's done. Good for you.

[Turning point]

There's a book out there called: "What Shamu Taught Me About Life, Love, and Marriage.." The author describes very much the same approach you have taken. In fact, it's the method used to train dolphins and killer whales like those we see at Sea World, etc.

 

You see, dolphins and whales love to get a reaction out of humans with their outrageous behavior. To stop the behavior a trainer ignores it completely without even the slightest reaction. So, a killer whale spits 10 gallons of cold sea water over your head? You don't even shrug. No scream, no flinch, and no noticeable departure at all from your routine. When there's no reward, no entertainment value - they stop doing it.

 

When they do what you want - you give them a fish. They keep doing that instead.

 

My guess is that your ex is a very disgruntled whale looking for a reaction. That's what controlling people do - they piss us off just to know that they can. They need that feeling of centrality and relevance. To some extent it seems like your plan is working. Initially, I think it's natural that he should up the ante on his games because if it worked in the past well, that's all he's really got in his tool belt. However, it's not really about how he deals with it - it's about how you manage to disengage and succeed with your own goals sans any emotion or need to react to his whale spit.

 

It's your bucket of fish, you get to decide when it's been earned.

[Ronni_W]

, I should be able to help him without losing my sense of self in the process. My question is how? ... If I say I am going to call him at 6pm and I call him at 6:05pm,

I've lied to him and I am untrustworthy.

vla1120,

 

First of all, I appreciate that you are prepared to help, as best you can, this person through his illness...no matter what he throws at you. It is commendable.

 

If I understand correctly, you are more asking how you can do that without going out of your own sense of peace and self-fulfillment(?)

If so, I would offer that it'll need you taking a look at why his unreasonableness and unfounded accusations against you bother you at all.

[because] You seem to already know that his perception of 'reality' is skewed and distorted...so why is that not enough for you to just be able to ignore it and carry on in accordance

and alignment with your own higher desires, intentions and goals? To me, having your answer to that might be able to help you get through all of this relatively unscathed,

without any resentment or self-recrimination.

 

Wishing you the best...it certainly doesn't sound like any picnic or rewarding situation. Hugs.

[Turning point]

I doubt he has the emotional capacity to engage you any other way.

 

The unfounded anger he hurls at you establishes "unfinished business" which in his mind will cause you to return. This is particularly true if you are at all the kind of person who cannot leave stuff like this hanging, or need the last word.

[vla1120]

I think that killer whale trainer has a good point. For a couple of days, he tried the usual guilt trips and gaslighting, but I did not engage. In fact, I completely ignored his behavior. He actually apologized to me for his behavior, saying he did not want to spend Easter alone and would welcome any time spent with me. That is the first time he has ever apologized, I'm pretty sure of that. I was shocked (but suspicious :lmao:.)

 

I will spend the late afternoon/evening with him. It is exhausting to constantly deal with this, but maybe we've turned a corner. I honestly doubt it, but I will take small victories where I can.

[Mr. Lucky]

I will spend the late afternoon/evening with him.

 

vla1120, is the time spent together so you can help him with his medical needs or simply to provide companionship?

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

vla1120, is the time spent together so you can help him with his medical needs or simply to provide companionship?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

My first hour or two is usually spent taking care of medical, insurance, prescription and computer issues he has. Then we sit and watch TV or play cards, so it is a combination.

[Mr. Lucky]

My first hour or two is usually spent taking care of medical, insurance, prescription and computer issues he has.

 

Why is he unable to do this for himself? He wouldn't be the first to use helplessness as a form of manipulation...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

While I do believe he uses it as a form of manipulation in some cases, he really does have considerable anxiety speaking on the phone because, while he speaks perfect English, it is not his native language and he has trouble understanding people on the phone. Add to that the fact that there is a monthly battle with our prescription insurance because they charge our account $15K every month for his chemo med before they apply the credit for copay assistance (which results in him not being able to get any of his other medications), and I have no problem removing that type of stress from him.

 

It's on me to separate the manipulation from the true need and keep my boundaries intact. I'm doing a better job at that, lately. (It only took 5+ years!)

[Mr. Lucky]

It's on me to separate the manipulation from the true need and keep my boundaries intact. I'm doing a better job at that, lately. (It only took 5+ years!)

 

Sounds suspiciously like progress and personal growth ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

I know he does not have the capability. We spoke after I posted this thread. He was being very unreasonable. He does believe he is the victim and I am mistreating him. You are right, Mr. Lucky. I need to step back and remember I am not doing this for the appreciation. I am also not doing this out of guilt. I am doing this because a human being needs help and I am the only one close enough to help him. I need to learn to disregard his inappropriate comments and maintain healthy boundaries. I am taking a screen shot of this and making it my background as a reminder!!

 

Thank you, everyone.

 

HA! Four months later and I am really ready to throw in the towel, this time! I usually do a good job of ignoring his rude comments and unfounded accusations.

 

He lives and breathes money and constantly holds it over everyone's head. He accuses the very few people who still communicate with him (me, his son, his family in Greece, his ex-sister-in-law) of only being involved because of his money. I composed his will three years ago, with him only leaving me one single dollar (because in NJ, it's hard to completely disinherit a spouse.) Everything else is very specifically bequeathed to his son, or other family members. Does that sound like someone who ONLY spends time with him for his money??? When we do spend time together, I make SURE I pay for everything (except his groceries - I do let him pay for his own groceries.)

 

Last week, he asked me to go to Greece with him. He said he would finance the trip if I would pay for my own ticket. Number one, he wants to go in 3 weeks. Ticket prices are outrageous. It's the start of the school year, and difficult for me to get any time off, let alone the two weeks he wants to go to Greece. He accused me of trying to manipulate him into buying my ticket. He kept sending me screen shots of cheaper tickets out of NYC, etc., telling me to "book the ticket right now." Then today, he said "Okay. I'll pay for your ticket, too, because you asked me to go to Greece for a vacation." WHAT???

 

Now, just so you know, he has a policy. If I text or email anything longer than one sentence, he deletes it without reading it because he has no interest in reading my "stupid opinions." Okay. Right. So then I decided to call and explain, again, that I cannot take off two weeks at the beginning of the school year, and even if I could, I'm not paying $1500-2000 (because he likes to fly non-stop) for tickets! While I am trying to explain, he is yelling at me that I only stay involved with him for his money. UGH!! He said "Last chance. Are you going to Greece, or not?" I said "For the last time, I am not traveling to Greece with you." He said "Okay. Bye."

 

On one hand, this strikes a little fear into me because of his previous threats to "end it all." On the other hand, there is a slight bit of relief that I won't have to spend 2-3 days a week visiting him for the unforeseeable future, while he is mad at me (again.) But I know what will happen. We'll go a few months not communicating, then he will text me that he needs help with medical bills or doctors or something with his apartment, and I'll allow myself to be drawn back into his web because I feel sorry for him.

 

Maybe next time, I need to say "No. Call your son." Maybe. (But I also know his son won't really help him....so.....) Ugh. I need to just say no (and not feel bad about it...)

 

Just a vent from me (and a record of the latest incident for me to refer back to when he contacts me again...)

[Turning point]

Maybe it's time you stopped calling this a "separation" and actually divorced the man?

 

I can't say I see what you're doing as compassionate if all it does is prolong the war.

[basil67]

Have you been working with a counsellor to figure out why you keep this abusive POS in your life? Imagine how lovely your life would be without him in it.

[Mr. Lucky]

Have you been working with a counsellor to figure out why you keep this abusive POS in your life?

 

Agreed, and your codependency just seems to fuel his ability to act out. If the people he abuses stopped answering the phone, he might have to develop a real, human relationship with someone - or die alone. Either way, it would be his choice...

 

Mr. Lucky

[anika99]

Have you been working with a counsellor to figure out why you keep this abusive POS in your life? Imagine how lovely your life would be without him in it.

 

I also agree with this. You say you left him but stay in contact as a caregiver but I don't believe that. Caregivers don't go on vacations or spend the night sleeping over or plan holidays dinners with their clients. You are still very much emotionally involved with him and you seem to still be trying to have a romantic married partnership with him.

 

I had a long term relationship with a man diagnosed with BPD (borderline personality disorder) and your husband sounds a lot like him. Not saying he has a personality disorder but he sure does sound like the guy I was with. Black and white thinking, outrageous accusations and insults. Insisting that everyone jump through hoops to serve and please him and when they don't he accuses them of being liars, untrustworthy, etc.

 

Nothing is ever god enough, no matter how much you give and bend over backwards they demand more and more proof of your love. It's a soul sucking ridiculous way to live. It doesn't get better. People like him can only control their outbursts and temper tantrums for short periods. It would take years of intensive therapy for him to change his thinking and his behaviour. Expecting him to change to make you happy is a lot like expecting your dog to change into a cat. They can't do it.

 

So the choice is yours. Live this way for however many years he has left or start having more respect for yourself and demanding better for yourself. And when I say demand better for yourself I dont' mean that you should demand that he treat you better. He's not capable of being different. I mean you should really distance yourself from this toxic man. If you feel like you still need to step in and take care of some of his medical needs then fine you can do that, but keep it to medical issues only. No holiday dinners together, no vacations, no spending the night at his place. Tell him you will help him with his medical needs only and he can accept that or not.

 

As long as you continue to put up with this then you really can't complain or feel sorry for yourself. I'm sorry but I don't consider your actions as altruistic, I see you more as needy and desperately hanging onto a bad relationship. Like I said, you can help him without entertaining a relationship with him.

[BaileyB]

It is possible to help him with his medical and financial needs, without being drawn into all the drama. It would require you to establish firm boundaries, which seems to be something you really struggle to do.

 

Have you seen a counsellor? Maybe they could help you to plan for these situations, such that you can respond in such a way that you will not be drawn into the drama.

Edited August 13, 2019 by BaileyB