RecordProducer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 but to be frank it's emotionally difficult for me at the moment cos i expected the relationship to go further than friendship. Yeah, I can imagine how it must feel for you, you feel rejected. In any case, you can practice your Casanova skills on her! Read about this famous seducer. You will find out that he showed every woman that she was special and treated her with respect. He was actually not attractive at all, but he seduced many women. You might as well seduce your ice queen. Or just apply it on other women. Be cheerful and warm, funny and a great listener... The golden rule of seduction is: when a woman has a lot of fun with you, you've done 90% of the seduction! Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 ha.. this is really getting interesting! on this same thread some people replied that i mistook her interest, while some others replied that something is wrong with her.. RecordProducer even suggested that she might be a lesbian ha ha ha even if it had been an American in my shoes he would have been confused just like me.. but anyway i think we r having a good argument and i for one am learning a lot from this. so thanks to all of u for taking time to reply. also, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, i got to say that when a woman tells me the dreaded "I just want to be friends with you" i feel crushed!!!! i personally regard this as a humiliation for a guy. i interpret this as a woman thinking "u r not boy-friend material, u r not sexy/attractive/man enough for me, but i am softening the impact of the blow and being nice to u by saying that u r my friend". i think the men would agree. don't u feel bad when u hear that dreaded sentence from women?? so i am finding it very surprising that women value friendships with men... this is seriously new to me!!! Link to post Share on other sites
mixwell Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I honestly don't get this line of thinking from guys. I have never known this to be true among the girls I know. If anything, girls are so used to guys being aggressive with them that when they show interest but just as friends, then we become intrigued. If we are attracted to you and you don't show that true romantic interest back, we will pine for you. If we aren't attracted to you, we very well may latch on to the friendship because, well, its so rare to find. I admit, its flattering to us that a guy might actually be interested in us for something other than ass. When you then go and make attraction-related comments, you break that ideal for us. As for her accepting those comments in the beginning, well she was just feeling you and the situation out. No woman is going to turn down compliments in the beginning. Women do this because they are not confident with their sexuality and what they want. They have desire and are afraid to express it. They agonize over it and make ultimatimums for themselves and others to set boundaries for the situation because they don't trust themselves nor their instincts. They tell you they are not going to hook up because they don't want you to think that they are a slut. But because of their inherent insecurity, even if they are unsure whether they want to have sex with you they do it anyway because in confusion we often give in as opposed to staying calm and collected. My mother once said that girls who say they are "only friends" with the guys they like are the ones that often end up pregnant. This is because they are in denial about their feelings and do not think properly and plan ahead. KitKat I am just saying I flirt with a girl but then tease her as well. I act like I couuld take it or leave it. I don't act clingy and thats the thing that I notice that works well for me. I don't act all sappy like most guys do.. As far as the sex thing goes and the comments my girl made I don't know.. We have had a lot more sexual encounters now and everything is cool but I still act casual. I don't act like a sensitive wuss bag and she seems to really like it. I just joke around and tease her a little still and she said she admires that because a lot of guys just give up their power and act like little puppy dogs once they get the girl.. Link to post Share on other sites
mixwell Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 kitkat, so u r saying that friendship wud eventually lead to love if both the guy and the girl are interested? god, this is too confusing.. sorry, but i think it is a popular belief that once a woman puts a guy in the "just friends" category there is no way he can come out of that dreaded zone. mixwell was right in a way about that. even i, for fear that she may think of me only as a friend, gave out the compliments, asked her number, and tried to hold hands... it didn't work out but still i am glad i made the effort. The main thing and the hardest part is in the beginning. A girl has to have a higher interest level with you.. Once you become friends with her the interest level most likely goes down, depending on how you act.. Clobber send me a PM with your email address and I will send you the ebooks !! They have ALL the answers for you.. YOu will see that a lot of what you are doing is most likely wrong.. I read it and I was shocked at how many things I used to do would turn a girl off when I used to think it would do the opposite !! It will change your way of thinking for sure !! Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 She wants to be your friend because she likes you as a friend. No consolation reward or anything like that. If you are no BF material for her, you will be for someone else. She is not the last woman in the whole world. Link to post Share on other sites
mixwell Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 also, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, i got to say that when a woman tells me the dreaded "I just want to be friends with you" i feel crushed!!!! i personally regard this as a humiliation for a guy. i interpret this as a woman thinking "u r not boy-friend material, u r not sexy/attractive/man enough for me, but i am softening the impact of the blow and being nice to u by saying that u r my friend". i think the men would agree. don't u feel bad when u hear that dreaded sentence from women?? so i am finding it very surprising that women value friendships with men... this is seriously new to me!!! Sorry I keep posting on here and reply to different people.. Anyways don't take rejection personal.. Who knows the woman could have had a bad day at work or any number of things.. The last thing you should do is take it personal.. take it as practice if anything.. Try to look at it in a positive way.. When I get rejected I think of it more as its her loss not mine. I don't feel bad at all anymore by getting rejected. I used to think whats wrong with me, im ugly,poor whatever but now i don't take it personal. You can't theres too many women to talk to to let ever single one get you down !! Just keep your head up and keep talking to woman.. All us men are going through it so you are not alone !! haha.. Good luck ! Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Thanks for your advice RecordProducer and Mixwell Since I am inexperienced with dating I think I am making the mistake of taking things personally. Rejection at any level hurts... Even when rejected for a job that I apply I tend to take it personally.. well, anyway i will start looking at things differently. I want to learn things the American way and that's why I posted my story in this forum... And already i got invaluable inputs Mixwell, i tried to send u a PM but i got re-directed to a page that said that i do not have access to this feature. Since i am new to this forum i guess there is some restriction. However i am giving u my email address: "ramdotbalakrishnanatgmaildotcom". i haven't given it in the proper format for obvious reasons (spam). so plz write to me and also i wud be interested in reading the materials. thanks for doing this to me also if any of the females are interested (in that way) plz feel free to email me ha ha ha.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 guys, just wanted to give an update.. she and i hung out for a while today evening. as i said earlier i had decided to continue with her as friends and see how it goes. again it was tough for me emotionally but i managed my feelings. she was leaving to the east coast and i went to drop her off at the airport. i bought her some choclates from Ghirardeli 'cos i know she loves it. this is the first time i am buying some thing for her. but i was actually doubtful whether she wud accept it but to my surprise she did accept it happily. we then went to the airport and another "first time" happened. she allowed me to pay for her dinner! then she got herself some sandwich to take with her in the flight. now here is the important thing.. the guy who made her the sandwich at the burger place asked her where she is from and then gave a compliment "you are very pretty". and guess what? she was so happy and she kept telling me "wow, its so nice, i got complimented".. i was like WHAT THE F**K!!!!!!! i really became mad but somehow managed to control my amusement.. remember that when i told her "u look cute in jeans" she told "plz don't say that, plz don't make such comments.. i am ur friend"??? now what the heck about getting over-joyed after being complimented by a teenager working at a sandwich shop???? gosh i don't think i can ever understand women... and then when she just checked in for security she took me by surprise by giving me a hug! again this is another "first time". just 3 weeks back she said "u r very touchy, i don't like it". well, whatever... now i am seeing her only as a friend.. so none of this really matters. but i just cudn't hide my amusement Link to post Share on other sites
Aimée Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 now here is the important thing.. the guy who made her the sandwich at the burger place asked her where she is from and then gave a compliment "you are very pretty". and guess what? she was so happy and she kept telling me "wow, its so nice, i got complimented".. i was like WHAT THE F**K!!!!!!! i really became mad but somehow managed to control my amusement.. remember that when i told her "u look cute in jeans" she told "plz don't say that, plz don't make such comments.. i am ur friend"??? now what the heck about getting over-joyed after being complimented by a teenager working at a sandwich shop???? gosh i don't think i can ever understand women... That is easy to understand. She doesn't see him as a platonic, asexual friend, as she does with you, but as a man. In return she wants him to see her as a woman that he desires, as a man, which is confirmed by his compliment, that's why she's happy about it. A compliment by a man that she wants makes her feel desired and confirms her worth. She doesn't want you, therefore any kind of compliment you make will make her only see trouble down the road. You're not supposed to have these kind of feelings for her, you're supposed to be nice, friendly and loyal and that's it. and then when she just checked in for security she took me by surprise by giving me a hug! again this is another "first time". just 3 weeks back she said "u r very touchy, i don't like it". Well, her giving a friendly hug in order to express affection for you is different to you touching her with some other thoughts in the back of your mind in addition to friendship. well, whatever... now i am seeing her only as a friend.. Good attitude! Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 She doesn't want you, therefore any kind of compliment you make will make her only see trouble down the road. That was a bit harsh but i have to accept it as the reality! Not being wanted is a painful feeling and its all the more challenging to hang out with this woman as friends while such things happen. You're not supposed to have these kind of feelings for her, you're supposed to be nice, friendly and loyal and that's it. Yeah right! i shud be nice, friendly, and loyal to this woman while she has fun with some guy that is flipping burgers..... Just goes to prove the age old truth that "Nice Guys can never get the girl". This is sickening.. I dunno as of now, but i guess eventually i will give up continuing as her friend. I feel used and it's very hurting Link to post Share on other sites
Aimée Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Well, I have to confess, I'm also in a situation where I'm not sure if I should call it quits or not... Anyway, in my opinion a guy who is stuck in the friend zone is stuck there, because he's too nice and kind of manipulative, he's using the friendship only as a diveboard to jump the next level - a relationship. He thinks friendship and relationship are just steps of the same ladder and if he moves past friendship he will find love, but that's not true. He will only move past friendship if he manages to spark her romantic interest in him. That will happen when you're yourself, doing your thing without waiting for her approval, if the person she sees then is interesting enough and she can imagine a future with him she will fall in love. There's a reason why you're stuck in the friendship zone and you should wonder what it is. Often it is, because the guy comes across as too weak, too desperate for her attention. The reason why this doesn't happen so often is that people are very resistent to changes and they never look for mistakes in themselves. If you tell them (on this board) they are pushovers, clingy, needy, desperate, then they will insist that it's the woman's fault and not theirs, ergo, no changes. Things stay the way they are till the guys become bitter. I can also tell you that being a self-confident good friend can still not be enough, there are a lot of things which can turn people off or on, but it's a huge step forward if you set yourself free from the typical whiny chorus into which so many so-called nice guys chime in. I'm just speaking for myself now, I'm not sure how it applies to other women, but there are two things I find quite difficult to overlook, one is lack of physical attraction and the other one is when I don't get enough intellectual stimulation. Assuming that she might have a similar opinion as I do - I think if it was the latter case, then she wouldn't spend so much time with you, infatuation (or to be precise, our hormones ) may blind us to this, but if it's just friendship then I guess that most people prefer some intellectual compatibility when hanging out with a friend for longer periods of time. If it's the former, then you will have to acquire a lot of self-confidence to make up for it. People can become more attractive with time, but it's difficult. You should try at least to look your best (whether you continue being friends with her or not) without exaggerating. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 25, 2005 Author Share Posted September 25, 2005 Wow! Thanx for the detailed reply Aimee I am also sorry if i came across as rude or whiny.. It's just the frustration u know.. A guy flipping burgers has the freedom to compliment the woman i like but i don't have the permission to.. well, anyway... I do understand what exactly u r talking about when u say that i may come across as weak or desperate for her attention. when i said "nice guys can never get the girl" i meant the guys that are decent, have a stable job, know what they are doing in life etc. Not the usual "nice guys" that are weak, clingy, and have an agenda on their minds for everything they do to the woman. I am well aware of this and I can safely say that I was my own self with this woman from the time i met her. I was never desperate to meet her or anything, if u read my very first post u will see that it was she that made the plans of meeting most of the times. Also, whenever she tried to change the plans or schedule I used to refuse! So i think i am okay as far as this niceness factor is concerned. i was and never will be clingy, whiny, or desperate. but there are two things I find quite difficult to overlook, one is lack of physical attraction and the other one is when I don't get enough intellectual stimulation. i don't know what exactly u mean by intellectual stimulation but i guess i am providing her enough of it. at the risk of sounding immodest i have to say that i am a member of the "Indian Quiz Foundation" which places me in the top brackets of a nation of 1 billion people. So u can pretty much guess how it would be to talk with me. She always keeps telling "i learn a lot whenever i am with you". i also have a Master's degree from NY. with that said now we r left with only one thing, physical attraction. i think this is where i am lacking!! i am from India and have brown skin, i really can't help it. this woman is extremely fair. so now i understand why the spark was just not there. but guess what? i care a damn about this!!! i really cannot change how i look... i really cannot put some white skin just so that this woman may fall for me.. i am also slightly bald.. and there is no way i can grow hair again.. so finally it came to this huh!?!? ughhh, screw this!!! i will forget this person and move on.. this whole thing is getting really ugly now. Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 She sees you as a friend and thats *what* you are to her and where you will stay : forever. Try to find a girl who finds you attractive and wants your company other than a buddy, By hanging out with this girl you are deluding yourself of the truth. To stay in this is going to cause you some pain. Walk away ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 Thanx Mary.. Initially I didn't want to be a prick and walk away just b'cos she wasn't interested in me romantically. I thought I could continue as friends. But now I guess it will be difficult... I cudn't withstand the fact that she is willing to accept AND enjoy compliments from a sandwich making boy but puts restrictions on me.. I guess I deserve some respect. It may not be fair on my part to say such things but I am only human!! Thanks everybody for your support in this issue Link to post Share on other sites
aznflava Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 You gave her way too many compliments. Never give a girl to many compliments as this puts them in a position of power. Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Never give a girl to many compliments as this puts them in a position of power. Or puts the man in a position of power... Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 hi aznflava, i am sorry but i think u got me wrong.. i did not give too many compliments. its been almost 2 months since she and i started hanging out and i gave exactly 2 compliments - the first one was "you have such beautiful eyes" and the second was "somebody is looking cute in jeans". it was after the 2nd comment that she said "don't say that, plz don't make such comments, i'm ur friend". i have never complimented her after that. i don't think 2 compliments in 2 months is too much. or is it?? i dunno... as i said i am new to the American dating scene btw, nice response funny RecordProducer Ladies do u think its too much??? Link to post Share on other sites
blue16 Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I cudn't withstand the fact that she is willing to accept AND enjoy compliments from a sandwich making boy but puts restrictions on me. lol the way you say that sounds really demeaning, but it's funny. i don't know what exactly u mean by intellectual stimulation but i guess i am providing her enough of it. at the risk of sounding immodest i have to say that i am a member of the "Indian Quiz Foundation" which places me in the top brackets of a nation of 1 billion people. So u can pretty much guess how it would be to talk with me. She always keeps telling "i learn a lot whenever i am with you". i also have a Master's degree from NY. with that said now we r left with only one thing, physical attraction. i think this is where i am lacking!! i am from India and have brown skin, i really can't help it. this woman is extremely fair. so now i understand why the spark was just not there. but guess what? i care a damn about this!!! i really cannot change how i look... i really cannot put some white skin just so that this woman may fall for me.. i am also slightly bald.. and there is no way i can grow hair again.. so finally it came to this huh!?!? ughhh, screw this!!! i will forget this person and move on.. this whole thing is getting really ugly now. As for intellectual stimulation, there is a lot more than just education and knowledge. I'm sure you're very intelligent and all that, but there is so much more than that. Intellectual stimulation involves things like teasing, flirting, keeping a girl interested in you mentally, and having fun in a conversation. That's probably not a very good definition but I think you get the idea. As for physical attraction, I wouldn't necessarily say having dark skin is a bad thing. I live in a multicultural city, I have a few friends that have brown skin as well...and almost every single one of the girls they're with are fair skinned. So in your case, I wouldn't just say "I have dark skin so girls don't find me attractive." cuz that's not the case. Anyways, even though you are new to the american dating scene you are learning so much already I can tell. After your first experience (this one, let's say) you will learn so much about the whole 'game' in general and it will be very beneficial Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 Yup, I definitely did learn about American dating scene.. not just because of my experience with this woman but also by posting on this forum and hearing from a lot of wonderful people I do get an idea about what u mean by intellectual stimulation. The word intellectual is kinda mis-leading when u say that it can include teasing, flirting, etc.. But i will give it a shot, not to woo this female but as practice Thanks Blue16 Link to post Share on other sites
loony Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Move on and look for someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 hello everyone, hope u can remember me and the lady friend that i was talking about to you all. well guess what? the drama is over now i have atlast got the answer to my questions (our questions). SHE HAS A BOYFRIEND IN PHILADELPHIA!!!! i got to know about this tonite, nearly after two months of hanging out with her. I FEEL BURNT AND GUTTED!!!!!!!! not once did she mention about this all these days and also not once did i see her talk to him on the phone, ever. i felt so bad when i learnt about it tonite but managed to hide my pain. Why the f*ck did u come and talk with me, text message me, make plans to meet, hang out at the games, take me to ur apartment, go to the movies, do shopping, blah blah blah.... if u already have a boyfriend???????????? arggghhhh screw this........... i feel so much pain now..... this clearly explains her bizarre behavior all these days.... oh God, shame on me, i got fooled!!! i have nothing else to say.. Link to post Share on other sites
Aimée Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 That was mean, stupid and selfish of her. If I had a boyfriend, I would drop his name sooner or later in my conversation with male friends to let them know that I wasn't available anymore. Honestly, I think having a boyfriend/girlfriend one of the best excuse you can have to reject someone in a nice way and if you don't use it, you're probably playing a game. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 oh God, shame on me, i got fooled!!! i have nothing else to say.. You can't take responsibility for someone else's dishonesty or game-playing tactics. We have to give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes, otherwise life would be intolerable. "I just want us to be friends". She probably meant that from the heart; with all that endearing confusion and uptight, self-absorbed attitude, she probably genuinely doesn't have any friends. BTW, the "telling me I look cute in jeans = bad, sandwich boy telling me I'm pretty = good. The former compliments her body, latter compliments her face so she probably perceived it as less sexualised....but I really wouldn't worry about it. After all, this is the same girl who shaved all her hair off so that men would see her as a "whole person". The boyfriend in Philadelphia, if he exists, is probably a mute, celibate warlock. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 thanks guys for taking time to reply.. i am still reeling from yesterday night's cruel revelations. its hurting so bad right now and i think it wud take a long time for me to recover. i seriously don't understand why this woman hid the fact that she had a boyfriend all these days.. u remember about the sandwich boy's comments? that took place in the airport. i went along with her to send her off, she was taking off to Philadelphia. i asked whether she was going to meet her college buddies and she said yes (she went to drexel university in philadelphia). now i realize that she actually went there to meet her boyfriend (who wud fly coast-to-coast to meet their college friends). i dunno whether it was my mistake to have just assumed that she didn't have a boyfriend and started developing feelings for her or it was wrong on her part never to mention about her boyfriend all the while making plans to meet me for games,movies,lunches,dinners, etc etc..i dunno who is wrong.. me or her??? and b'cos of that i dunno whether i should even continue my friendship with this person. initially i didn't want to go away just b'cos she didn't like me in a romantic way but now i am crushed after i learnt that she does have a boyfriend. i once again want to remind that i am from India and so i am not aware of the american dating process. that's why i dunno whether she is wrong or is it me? plz let me know ur thoughts - broken in SFO Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 ..i dunno who is wrong.. me or her??? you are wrong here NOCLOBBER, cause you know very little about females... i once again want to remind that i am from India and so i am not aware of the american dating process. and this is why. Link to post Share on other sites
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