We broke up 3 times, and now considering coming back again.

[suetoppp]

IF the other situations were after an argument, I would say that it's not a Man Cave situation. Rather, it's a completely normal reaction to having just come out of an argument. While some people are quick to anger and also make a quick recovery, others can take many days to move past it.

 

Of course, if the anger issues get under control, he won't need breaks to recover.

 

Yes they were after arguments.

 

And yes he takes time to recover. He is very sensitive and takes things to heart. I’m sensitive too but I recover quickly from arguments and can’t hold grudges, I just want to solve and move on. He is different though as things affect him very deeply.

[JuneL]

Yes they were after arguments.

 

And yes he takes time to recover. He is very sensitive and takes things to heart. I’m sensitive too but I recover quickly from arguments and can’t hold grudges, I just want to solve and move on. He is different though as things affect him very deeply.

 

Okay, I think we’re getting a clearer picture of the whole situation. You are the type that lashes out easily and then forgets faster (why? because you get to vent, big time, during your lashing out), whereas he needs some space on his own to get over the conflict and deal with your anger.

 

Sure he can improve on how to deal better with your anger, but it sounds like your anger is the core issue here.

Edited April 28, 2019 by JuneL

[suetoppp]

Okay, I think we’re getting a clearer picture of the whole situation. You are the type that lashes out easily and then forgets faster (why? because you get to vent, big time, during your lashing out), whereas he needs some space on his own to get over the conflict and deal with your anger.

 

Sure he can improve on how to deal better with your anger, but it sounds like your anger is the core issue here.

 

Yes I do vent big time during the lashing out and say hurtful things. There was this one time I lashed out at him first thing in the morning as soon as he got out of bed and he was shocked and hurt.

 

Now I think to myself wow I don’t know if I would get back to someone who would do this to me!

 

I did have a boyfriend in the past that accepted my lashing out and I lost respect for him. This guy now has boundaries and doesn’t accept and that showed me I need to change my behaviour and I’m working on it.

[JuneL]

Okay, at least you’re receptive to our feedback. You can’t expect others to pretend like nothing has happened after being yelled at.

[basil67]

It sounds like you're making good progress in understanding the dynamic.

 

Now going back to your first post where you said that he can't promise he wouldn't run away again - this is about him not making promises before he finds out if he can trust you to have changed. If you can deal better with your anger, he will learn to trust you and in turn be less wary.

[suetoppp]

Okay, at least you’re receptive to our feedback. You can’t expect others to pretend like nothing has happened after being yelled at.

 

Oh wait a minute. I never yelled at him! When I say lashing out is showing him I’m pis*** off, questioning him and telling him my conclusions. Which basically didn’t give him space to respond because he felt pressured and cornered.

 

But there was never any yelling or screaming or any of that.

[suetoppp]

It sounds like you're making good progress in understanding the dynamic.

 

Now going back to your first post where you said that he can't promise he wouldn't run away again - this is about him not making promises before he finds out if he can trust you to have changed. If you can deal better with your anger, he will learn to trust you and in turn be less wary.

 

I understand that. I know that his behaviour was triggered by my behaviour.

 

My only concern is if in the future there’s something I don’t like and even if I communicate it properly, if he will do it again. Because there are things that are just the way he is too.

[ExpatInItaly]

If he doesn’t recognize his own role in this dynamic and isn’t actively working on ways to rectify that, then it’s very unlikely to work out, OP.

 

You won’t be able to resolve the relationship issues all on your own.

[basil67]

My only concern is if in the future there’s something I don’t like and even if I communicate it properly, if he will do it again.

 

You can try and rebuild trust with him or walk away. But remember that relationships come with no guarantees.

 

Because there are things that are just the way he is too.

 

What kind of things are you talking about? We all have irritating traits which a partner has to deal with. Is it irritating stuff or is it stuff which should be a dealbreaker?

[Mrin]

Oh wait a minute. I never yelled at him! When I say lashing out is showing him I’m pis*** off, questioning him and telling him my conclusions. Which basically didn’t give him space to respond because he felt pressured and cornered.

 

But there was never any yelling or screaming or any of that.

 

Ummmm.... Could you go into describing a "lash out" in more detail? I think a lot of us assumed yelling, accusing, general irrational behavior. I get the sense that you mean something different.

[suetoppp]

If he doesn’t recognize his own role in this dynamic and isn’t actively working on ways to rectify that, then it’s very unlikely to work out, OP.

 

You won’t be able to resolve the relationship issues all on your own.

 

Agree. He does recognize as it was him acknowledging it when we had that conversation last time. I think he is unsure if he wouldn't do it again that's why he can't say he won't.

 

One thing I know is that every time he had that behaviour it was after me lashing out and him feeling pressured.

[JuneL]

Oh wait a minute. I never yelled at him! When I say lashing out is showing him I’m pis*** off, questioning him and telling him my conclusions. Which basically didn’t give him space to respond because he felt pressured and cornered.

 

But there was never any yelling or screaming or any of that.

 

But it’s not much better if you accuse him of things without giving him space to respond, then turn around to further accuse him of avoiding you.

 

If you’re still seeing a therapist, perhaps you can take him to do a couple’s session?

[suetoppp]

Ummmm.... Could you go into describing a "lash out" in more detail? I think a lot of us assumed yelling, accusing, general irrational behavior. I get the sense that you mean something different.

 

Lashing out as in like cornering the other person and start making accusations and questioning him, like he did everything on purpose to abuse or hurt me.

 

I didn't yell or screamed at him but yes I did the accusing and overreacted, making a bigger thing than what really was.

 

And he felt cornered and pressured and just wanted to run away, which I totally understand (I think I would do the same to be honest).

[suetoppp]

But it’s not much better if you accuse him of things without giving him space to respond, then turn around to further accuse him of avoiding you.

 

If you’re still seeing a therapist, perhaps you can take him to do a couple’s session?

 

Totally agree. That's why I'm working on my own issues and changing my behaviour.

 

To be honest, I think any healthy person would run away if someone lash out at them accusing and making them feel bad no giving them any space to respond. I can see that now!

 

Yes I can suggest that to him.

[suetoppp]

And to be honest I do value the fact that he contacted me, wanted to talk and wants to be together again, knowing my past behaviour. That he still wants to give us a chance.

 

That is amazing and it shows how he feels about me. Other person would just run and never come back.

[chillii]

l dunno , but seems like you can't control yourself and start lashing out , but he gets the blame basically , even though you say it stems back to whatever.

Doesn't matter where it stems from, that's all about you , not him, just because he can't bring himself to take your crap , or stay in some ridiculous calm mode when your the one losing it , doesn't make it his problems , it's coming from you.

How much bullshyt would you or any woman take from a man if they were the ones lashing out at you for no reason all the time.

You probably dished out a lot of crap before he did walk or you did to begin with but l bet he persisted for a long time before he eventually started walking so now that happens quicker and quicker because he's had enough. , you probably don't even realize how much you dished out.

Believe me , that crap can get old real fast.

 

You make it sound like it's all on him , even though your the one with all this stuff and the one not treating him right.

So although yeah it's great your looking at yourself and trying to work through your stuff, blaming him for not putting up with it is a bit ridiculous.

Edited April 29, 2019 by chillii

[BaileyB]

And to be honest I do value the fact that he contacted me, wanted to talk and wants to be together again, knowing my past behaviour. That he still wants to give us a chance.

 

That is amazing and it shows how he feels about me. Other person would just run and never come back.

 

Not really. Lots of couples get very stuck in dysfunctional relationship dynamics... it doesn’t necessarily mean that he can’t live without you or that this is a healthy relationship for you both. Some people are just attracted to dysfunction and drama.

 

On-again/off-again relationships are generally not healthy relationships. They don’t usually go the distance...

[suetoppp]

l dunno , but seems like you can't control yourself and start lashing out , but he gets the blame basically , even though you say it stems back to whatever.

Doesn't matter where it stems from, that's all about you , not him, just because he can't bring himself to take your crap , or stay in some ridiculous calm mode when your the one losing it , doesn't make it his problems , it's coming from you.

How much bullshyt would you or any woman take from a man if they were the ones lashing out at you for no reason all the time.

You probably dished out a lot of crap before he did walk or you did to begin with but l bet he persisted for a long time before he eventually started walking so now that happens quicker and quicker because he's had enough. , you probably don't even realize how much you dished out.

Believe me , that crap can get old real fast.

 

You make it sound like it's all on him , even though your the one with all this stuff and the one not treating him right.

So although yeah it's great your looking at yourself and trying to work through your stuff, blaming him for not putting up with it is a bit ridiculous.

 

When I say "it steams back from", I'm not blaming him, I just meant now I understand what are MY emotions that led me to do the lashing out. So yes it is about me, not him.

 

One thing I learned in doing therapy is that when those emotions come up, is an opportunity for me to understand me better, and deal with it on my own first.

 

I know that very well now, that he's had enough and that's why he walked away several times.

 

I didn't blame him for putting up with it, I even said here before that if it was the other way around, I would probably do the same and walk out.

[suetoppp]

Not really. Lots of couples get very stuck in dysfunctional relationship dynamics... it doesn’t necessarily mean that he can’t live without you or that this is a healthy relationship for you both. Some people are just attracted to dysfunction and drama.

 

On-again/off-again relationships are generally not healthy relationships. They don’t usually go the distance...

 

They can go the distance if both people wake up and want to do the inner work and evolve.

 

And that's what I am doing now.

 

We decided to continue together and make it work differently with a different awareness.

 

My question now is, if he also really wants to get out of the dysfunctional pattern for real. I mean, if I stop the lashing out and treat him well and with respect, will he also be different?

 

Or will he still be pushing me away to create the same dysfunctional pattern as before, because it's what he was used to? He used to say that he had the same pattern with his ex before.

 

And will he stay or walk away for good when he sees I changed and cannot have the same dysfunctional pattern again?

 

I guess I'll only know that by trying.

Edited April 30, 2019 by suetoppp

[Sunlight72]

In reply to your last post (#44), yep, the only way to really know is to try.

 

However, I would really encourage a few, say 3 or 4, sessions with a counselor or therapist - and I would specifically ask to role play at all the sessions. You don't need to go crazy with your lashing out, but give a real taste of it, and then he physically and verbally (like standing in place, looking you calmly in the eyes, or perhaps gently resting his hands on your biceps and you both breathe a few times, then he tells you out loud) that he will talk to you in 15 minutes. Then you both physically walk out of the room to different areas.

 

During this time neither of you gets to talk to the therapist/counselor - it's just like a real scenario where you will have to live with your own thoughts, and get back to a rational state, for several minutes, on your own, and then come back together, have a Very Short conversation about what ever the problem is. Then drop it and get on with the rest of your lives.

 

Then the counselor can critique how you've done.

 

Something like that. I'm not a counselor, I've just done some family behavior classes, so don't do this just because I wrote it. I'm trying to give you an idea of a concrete process, but it may be a little different.

 

I would strongly encourage that you insist on supervised role playing though, a few times, over a few weeks. It is surprising how effective it is to 'practice' a behavioral pattern physically and out loud

 

From what you've written, I do think this is like 80% on you to be able to breathe and let him be alone when he asks you to - without needing to explain yourself! Immediately you need to be able to walk away and let him feel he can safely ask for space without you then pushing him for some particular reaction.

 

That's my take. I'm really encouraged that you seem to be getting a broader perspective on things, and are really trying to relate better in moments of pressure

 

I think it is well worth you trying to reconcile with him and you learn better self control and communication skills. I think it could work for you two, and more importantly, I think you can work through this enough that you can see you can take more control of your own actions and change the outcome with him and with other people in your life. If he's willing to let you try with him, I think that's a great way for you to practice new behaviors for real.

 

Good for you for taking this time in your life to take this to heart and work to make a real change!

 

Best Wishes,

Sunlight.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Sunlight72

[MyWorldView]

I spent the better part of my 20's lashing out at my boyfriend. He tried over and over to help me but it didn't work. When I discovered that I was clinically depressed, I sought therapy. Three years of intense therapy, individual and group. It really saved my life. The triggers that used to set me off, no longer did. During therapy I was casually dating, but did not engage in sex. I knew it would end up in disaster.

 

Here I am at 43 and I can say that I have not violently yelled, thrown things tore up pictures, punched holes in walls or anything like that in almost 20 years! Also, I called my ex and thanked him for helping me discover that I needed help and I apologized for the chaos I brought into his life.

 

Because of this, I strongly believe in therapy.

 

Love is what you feel in your soul, not what you make up in your mind.

 

Therapy can be your best friend because essentially you listen to yourself and who else can be your life's advocate, but you?

[suetoppp]

I spent the better part of my 20's lashing out at my boyfriend. He tried over and over to help me but it didn't work. When I discovered that I was clinically depressed, I sought therapy. Three years of intense therapy, individual and group. It really saved my life. The triggers that used to set me off, no longer did. During therapy I was casually dating, but did not engage in sex. I knew it would end up in disaster.

 

Here I am at 43 and I can say that I have not violently yelled, thrown things tore up pictures, punched holes in walls or anything like that in almost 20 years! Also, I called my ex and thanked him for helping me discover that I needed help and I apologized for the chaos I brought into his life.

 

Because of this, I strongly believe in therapy.

 

Love is what you feel in your soul, not what you make up in your mind.

 

Therapy can be your best friend because essentially you listen to yourself and who else can be your life's advocate, but you?

 

Thank you for responding and for telling me about your experience.

 

I have never violently yelled, thrown things, tore up pictures, punched holes in walls or anything like that.

 

What I meant by lashing out is confronting the other person directly about what they did. Telling them what I think they did, how I felt, and putting my boundaries. And yes, one can tell I'm pis*** off and not happy. But I don't yell or do any violent crazy stuff like that.

 

I'm not sure if I need therapy on that to be honest, because I am defending myself. I might yes have to learn not to take things personally.

[d0nnivain]

It is possible to have proper boundaries & express disdain when they are violated without lashing out. When you master it, you should be able to express that level of displeasure with a quirk of the eyebrow or tilt of the head.

 

When you react differently -- stop lashing out in the ways you have been -- yes he will react differently because you will be different. He will still push you away when he's scared / nervous / upset / unsure because that is HIS pattern. You can't change him. Only he can address that & until he recognizes it as a problem that needs to be addressed it will remain an issue.

[suetoppp]

It is possible to have proper boundaries & express disdain when they are violated without lashing out. When you master it, you should be able to express that level of displeasure with a quirk of the eyebrow or tilt of the head.

 

When you react differently -- stop lashing out in the ways you have been -- yes he will react differently because you will be different. He will still push you away when he's scared / nervous / upset / unsure because that is HIS pattern. You can't change him. Only he can address that & until he recognizes it as a problem that needs to be addressed it will remain an issue.

 

Yes you are right. I do need to learn to communicate when I don't like something without lashing out at the other person.

 

I do take things personally and see them attacking me somehow or taking advantage of me, that's why I lash out.

 

I just read what I wrote in my previous post here, and I used the word "defending myself". And that's how I see a relationship: the other person attacking me and me defending myself.

 

It's like I feel attacked and unsafe.

 

I go from integration to separation quite fast.

 

And sometimes I'm even right, they are taking advantage somehow or being unconsiderate, but my lashing out is still my responsibility.

Edited May 11, 2019 by suetoppp

[Foxhall]

Hey Sue,

 

 

the other closed thread,

 

 

thank you for your reply defining the "someone special"

 

 

I am always happy to take on board good advice!