The End Of A Friendship.

[OatsAndHall]

Some back ground:

 

 

 

I have a close friend of nearly twenty years who is married with two kids. Over the years, many of us have become as close to his wife as we are to him as, to be honest, she is easier to be around. He is a controlling when it comes to her and the family dynamic and has a bit of a temper. A few of us have often wondered how they've made it this long given the way he acts. Some of our mutual friends have brought it up over the years and I've always just told them that we only see what's on the surface and not what goes on at home. Something must work between the two of them as they've been together for over eleven years.

 

 

 

I've opened my mouth a few times when he's been rude or controlling as we're basically family and we've grown comfortable enough with one another to call each other our on each other's crap.. We've never had a fight over it as I have broached the subject tactfully and proactively. But, it took a turn for the worst yesterday. I was visiting him and his family and he put her in tears. Apparently, she made a mistake with some aspect of their finances and he was fuming over it. I don't know the details but it wasn't something he should have brought up in front of other people and certainly not in the manner he did.

 

 

 

I was shocked at his behavior and made a quiet exit as it was incredibly uncomfortable and I was furious with him for being so rude. He called and texted a few times after I left but I ignored his attempts to contact me until I calmed down. When I did talk to him, he started making excuses for the way he talked to his wife and I told him that I didn't want to hear it. I told them that, regardless of the circumstances, he was rude to her and that their financial issues weren't something to discuss in front of company. I told him he shouldn't have had me over for dinner if things were that tense in the household. I also told him that he would've lost me as a friend if he ever talked to me the way he talked to her.

 

 

 

The conversation REALLY went sideways from there. He accused me and our other mutual friends of of having a crush on his wife, being jealous of his marriage, etc..etc... I told him that was completely false, out of line and he was risking our friendship by making those kinds of statements. I really didn't know what to say after that so I hung up on him.

 

 

 

He's tried to call twice since then but I've ignored the calls as I'm still shocked and angry that he could make such blatant accusations. I've certainly never flirted with his wife or been inappropriate and I can't imagine any of our other friends have either. We've never had contact with her outside of hanging out with him and his family so his response to the situation was incredibly irrational.

 

 

 

So, I don't really know what to do at this point. He's been a good friend to me over the years and helped me out through a lot. But, I don't know if I can still communicate with him if he's going to react like this.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[The Outlaw]

Saying what he did to you was a sad attempt at a comeback. Allow yourself a longer cooling off period and see what happens. If there isn't any improvement from him, cut him loose. And as much as it will sting, it's really his loss. Whatever their problems maybe, they need to be kept private.

[littleblackheart]

He's put you in a very uncomfortable situation and lost his temper on you. His relationship with his wife is one thing but he's not behaved well towards you (he can't be treating her that well if that's the way he deals with things when he loses his temper).

 

He doesn't really sound like a nice guy - do you really need a friendship with someone like that?

[JuneL]

Did he treat his girlfriends before his wife like that? Guys like him have a pattern.

[preraph]

I want to say thanks for standing up for her. He needed to hear someone else's perspective on it whether he liked it or not. Hopefully, he'll think about it and calm down and you'll talk about it more calmly. He chose to have a fight with you over there, so that gives you permission to speak up about it.

[OatsAndHall]

He's put you in a very uncomfortable situation and lost his temper on you. His relationship with his wife is one thing but he's not behaved well towards you (he can't be treating her that well if that's the way he deals with things when he loses his temper).

 

He doesn't really sound like a nice guy - do you really need a friendship with someone like that?

 

 

He has helped me through some seriously tough times and it would be hard for me to just throw in the towel. He helped me immensely during my divorce and he's one of those few people that I can always count on to be there.

 

 

 

This isn't the first time we've had a heated discussion regarding his approach to his marriage but it's never been a blow up like this. In the past, he'd complain about some aspect of his marriage where I felt he was being controlling or out of line, I'd call him out on it, we'd bicker for a bit but he'd come around to seeing a different perspective.

 

 

 

For example, his wife stayed at home with their children before they were school age. When the oldest was in first grade and the youngest was starting preschool, she was looking to go back to work. He was an a--about it and they had a few fights because he was trying to tell her she couldn't take certain jobs because they didn't pay enough or didn't have decent benefits.

 

 

 

He complained about it to me and I pointed out that it was ridiculous for him to be placing criteria on her job prospects as he makes six figures with his own business. We bickered about it for about ten minutes until I finally told him that life was going to be pretty friggin' miserable at home for all involved if she spent anymore time sitting around at home alone, waiting for the "right job" to pop up because he deemed it so.

 

 

We'll see... I have a lot on my plate next week and have no intention of going through this with him again. If/when we do talk about this, I am tempted to tell him that he'd better rethink his ways or he's could be looking at a divorce. To be blunt, he is batting way out of his league with respect to his wife; she's an attractive, personable and intelligent woman while he obviously doesn't have the most charismatic personality and one wouldn't describe him as "handsome" by any stretch of the imagination. I would never say that to him but, he's a fool if it hasn't crossed his mind..

[littleblackheart]

Ok. Well maybe he's a bit (very) insecure in his relationship?

 

All I know is that whenever someone would point out to my exH the errors of his ways (plenty), he'd concede to whoever was calling him out but got worse behind closed doors.

 

I know people can be different things to diffferent people, and I understand the loyalty. But you know, sometimes people can be extra supportive just so you feel perennially in their debt. Not saying it's the case here and I get the history, but him being supportive when you needed it doesn't really give him the rights to be a dick to you.

 

I would personally step away bc I wouldn't be able to compartmentalise or rationalise this guy's behaviour but I totally get your dilemma.

[OatsAndHall]

Ok. Well maybe he's a bit (very) insecure in his relationship?

 

All I know is that whenever someone would point out to my exH the errors of his ways (plenty), he'd concede to whoever was calling him out but got worse behind closed doors.

 

I know people can be different things to diffferent people, and I understand the loyalty. But you know, sometimes people can be extra supportive just so you feel perennially in their debt. Not saying it's the case here and I get the history, but him being supportive when you needed it doesn't really give him the rights to be a dick to you.

 

I would personally step away bc I wouldn't be able to compartmentalise or rationalise this guy's behaviour but I totally get your dilemma.

 

 

I don't speak up much about his attitude towards his marriage and family because I know his ex-wife can hold her ground; I've seen her put him in his place in a firm but tactful manner. I imagine she pulls the gloves off behind closed doors and lets him have it. Honestly, it's the only way I can still see them being together.

 

 

 

And yes, it is a bit of a dilemma... He's a pretty hard headed individual so we'll see if he can come straight out and apologize for his actions.

[preraph]

All that stuff you wrote about him not wanting his wife to work is identical to someone I know. He didn't want his wife to work because as long as she didn't, he felt she had to do everything else and all he had to do was his 9 to 5 job and that he had all the power and controlled her with her having to depend on him for money.

 

He said the exact same thing, told her she shouldn't take a job because it wasn't enough money. She finally did do it anyway, and she quickly found out that he treated her BETTER once she was earning her own money because he knew if she wanted, she could just leave him. Then she got a better job in the same field and things became much more balanced. Sometimes control freaks don't know what's good for them.

[Marc878]

Don't look for change at his age. Maybe control and management of it better is all you Gould hope for.

 

Nice job. Hold your ground.

[FMW]

See where things go from here. Don't make a snap judgment.

 

I would probably have a hard time remaining friends with someone who was abusive in that way to their spouse in addition to striking back at you when you expressed your unease.

[vla1120]

All that stuff you wrote about him not wanting his wife to work is identical to someone I know. He didn't want his wife to work because as long as she didn't, he felt she had to do everything else and all he had to do was his 9 to 5 job and that he had all the power and controlled her with her having to depend on him for money.

 

He said the exact same thing, told her she shouldn't take a job because it wasn't enough money. She finally did do it anyway, and she quickly found out that he treated her BETTER once she was earning her own money because he knew if she wanted, she could just leave him. Then she got a better job in the same field and things became much more balanced. Sometimes control freaks don't know what's good for them.

 

^^^This is exactly what I thought.

 

Since he mistreated his wife like that in front of company, he involved you in his marital dispute. That's on him, not you. The fact that he reacted like he did tells me that he IS aware of the fact that his wife may be out of his league and that's probably another reason he does not want her to have a job outside of the house, interacting with all those other human beings on a daily basis (especially other men.)

 

Part of being close friends is being able to tell each other the absolute truth about everything and still be friends. Don't throw the towel in just yet. Wait until he's not feeling defensive and perhaps then you can broach the subject and get back to a place where you both feel comfortable.

[OatsAndHall]

Thanks for all of the responses, folks. He sent me a text apologizing for having a fight in front of me but didn't say anything about the accusations he made. I thanked him for it and went on with my day. He's tagged me in a few posts on Facebook which I responded to so he's waving the white flag.

 

 

 

But, I'm going to keep my distance until he apologizes for the accusations as they were out of line. The work week has been hectic and this weekend isn't going to be any better so I don't have the patience to delve into this with him any further right now.

 

 

 

I know he wants to have a deeper conversation about the incident but I really don't feel inclined to do so. A part of me wants to tell him there's a good chance he'll end up divorced if he keeps this crap up but I'm not going down that road with him.

[Marc878]

Friendships like relationships don't always last.

 

He crossed the line and make no mistake this is who he is and will always be.

 

That won't change.

 

Now if you like drama and awkwardness in your life he's your man.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I personally think that you shouldn't meddle in other people's relationships. I remember your thread about a co-worker and her husband thinking there was something going on between the 2 of you.

 

 

Maybe try to spend less time getting close to married women.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Not that I approve of his behavior, but...

 

You wrote that you're practically part of the family! So, seems since he let loose on you so powerfully you've now been inducted as a full-fledged family member! Lucky you!

 

However, you mention how good of a friend he's been to you over the years.

 

I have found that almost all people come with dysfunctions. You just have to decide for yourself which ones you're able to deal with. Some people are very difficult to deal with but like this guy, are also extreme in another way, extremely loyal and helpful.

 

Here's the thing about this guy: As brutal as he is you better believe he has been rebuked strongly by quite a few people in his life. So, if you're up to it and want to keep him as a friend, level with him in as strong, but kind way, as you can. I would bet he can take it and will be a better friend to you for it. But, only you can decide if he's worth it.

 

For me, I've found all of my friends are worth whatever investment I've needed to put into it. And it's "different strokes for different folks."

 

My BIL's mom just died. She is a woman who never cut a friend out no matter how badly they treated her. There is one woman who offended everyone else in her life. My BIL's mom was finally her only friend left. But, she continued to offer the friend grace.

 

At my BIL's mother's funeral the place was packed and full of people singing her praises. I kind of think it was because many there had been the recipient of her grace.

 

Only you can decide if you have the fortitude to offer this man grace. But, if you should decide to do so I would encourage you to also be forthcoming with continued loving but FIRM words to set him straight when needed.

[JuneL]

I personally think that you shouldn't meddle in other people's relationships. I remember your thread about a co-worker and her husband thinking there was something going on between the 2 of you.

 

 

Maybe try to spend less time getting close to married women.

 

OP: There might be some truth to this. Now I also remember another thread in which you asked a guy you knew not to date your female friend, because you thought he might be a bit of a player (and she ended up getting mad at you). These people are grown up adults; unless there’s clear abuse involved or unless they seek advice from you, you should respect them to do what they think is the best.

[OatsAndHall]

I personally think that you shouldn't meddle in other people's relationships. I remember your thread about a co-worker and her husband thinking there was something going on between the 2 of you.

 

 

Maybe try to spend less time getting close to married women.

 

 

1. I don't have any contact with my friend's wife outside of the time I spend with them as a family. I don't have her cell phone number,she's not a friend on social media and I've never had a conversation with her when friend hasn't been around. We're only "close" because I've spent over a decade in the company of her and my friend.

 

 

 

2. In this particular situation, he chose to start a fight with her in front of me and I left because I didn't want to be involved in their fight. He then texted me and went to great lengths to excuse his behavior when he'd gotten nasty enough in to put his wife in tears in front of me. I didn't "meddle" in their relationship; I gave him a dose of the truth. If the shoes were on the other foot, you can be guaranteed that he'd tell me the same thing.

 

 

I'm not a big fan of what you're insinuating about my behavior towards married women. I interact with married women on a daily basis; I'm a male in a female dominated profession. I don't flirt with them and I'm not inappropriate around them. I've never been involved in an EA of any kind and I never will be.

 

 

 

Before you post on any of my threads, I strongly suggest that you reply within the context of the thread and not within the context of whatever random mental gymnastics that you've done in your head.

[OatsAndHall]

OP: There might be some truth to this. Now I also remember another thread in which you asked a guy you knew not to date your female friend, because you thought he might be a bit of a player (and she ended up getting mad at you). These people are grown up adults; unless there’s clear abuse involved or unless they seek advice from you, you should respect them to do what they think is the best.

 

 

Yes, I did post about that. And, I realized what I done was wrong and admitted as much. However, in this situation, I'm not going to apologize for anything as he dragged me into this situation by a)getting into a fight with her in front of me and b)texting me to trash his wife and to excuse his behavior.

 

 

 

This is what I find funny about this site. Had I posted that I HADN'T told him that his swearing at his wife up and down was a bad thing, I'd have two dozen posts claiming that I was in the wrong.