Is No Contact Always the Answer? What if the crimes aren't as bad?

[qoheleth]

MM man here. My wife thinks I'm in an EA with a friend (details below). From everything I've read on here, breaking off all communication and going no contact is the only true resolution. Is it really that black & white?

 

To me, affair is such a charged word used to apply to something that in reality exists on a spectrum. Hell, the Bible says looking at a woman lustfully is technically a PA and coveting another's wife an EA. For sure they all involve some degree of unhealthy attachment & secrecy, but from most of the threads I've read on this, "no contact" is always given as a solution in response to major affairs occurring over a long period of time, or where major boundaries were shredded and completely in secret (i.e. professions of love, plans to leave spouses, sexual intimacy, etc..). I can completely understand how nothing healthy could ever arise from something like that. I also think most all of us have had attractions of varying degrees to others who weren't our SO. I'm curious if anyone out here has stories to share where the offenses committed were not so serious and earth-shattering. How did you resolve them and were you ever able to establish healthy boundaries and true friendships afterwards?

 

 

****Begin long-winded personal narrative****

 

In my own case, the OW is a friend I've known for years but became close with once we started playing sports over lunch hour (in a group). Occasional texts turned into occasional hangouts (also in groups) which turned into more frequent texts. At this point I knew that I was starting to become quite attached to her, and felt immense guilt so I told my wife. She was very understanding, but also understandably hurt and jealousy took hold. After letting her read all of the texts, I said I'd cut back, which I did for a couple weeks. But after a while, things just returned to as before. And while I wasn't hiding the fact that we texted, I wasn't completely transparent either, not keeping her filled in with everything. So now she feels that trust has been broken and is understandably insecure. At first, after researching and reading forums like these, she demanded that I completely cut off contact...she was fully convinced I was in a full blown emotional affair and radical action was necessary. However, going no contact also means removing my hobbies & pleasures from my life. We play in sports groups in a small town...there are simply no other places/outlets for me to go to. The thought of losing everything I enjoy has left me in a state of complete agony.

 

As for the OW, I have been clear in my intentions to her. I have always stated that all that I want & desire is to be friends and that I support her relationship 100% and have encouraged her in ways she can connect with her SO. She says the exact same and supports my marriage as well, giving me date ideas and just being an all-around truly caring person. My wife really likes her as a person and has enjoyed hanging out when we all do, but feels as though she can't truly be friends with her given the current circumstances. I also have no other close friends. I've tried connecting with men over the years, but I simply can't...possibly due to childhood trauma or possibly due to inherent personality type. This has left me extremely lonely and thinking I was incapable of ever having meaningful friendships, and why this one I've developed is so important to me.

 

On the flip side, I see the damage this has caused to my wife's psyche. I know it's been amplified by everything she has read online, but ultimately the responsibility lies on me for breaking her trust. I've agreed to back off to minimal contact...no texting or hangouts, and she's still allowing me to play sports. I am also making a conscious effort to connect more with my wife (dates, quality time, etc.). But it feels like a tenuous agreement at best going on 3 weeks. We both feel threatened by the other...I feel threatened she will make me give up everything for her, and she feels threatened I will put another woman over her. I also just miss the deeper connection with my friend, but I know my duty and responsibility lies with my wife first.

 

At the end of the day, I certainly did not handle everything appropriately, but I feel in my heart that overall I want a good and reasonable thing...I want trust and security to be restored and better relationship with my wife and a friendship with the OW where there are appropriate boundaries but still a certain level of freedom and closeness. Then again, maybe I'm just trying to justify something unsustainable. Is there any hope for someone like me?

[Amethyst68]

One question, do you realise you wrote you miss the deeper connection with the OW over your relationship with your wife?

[Aloha123]

Although I am definitely not normally of the one size fits all approach to relationship issues (even when it comes to affairs), the issue here is that your wife has specifically requested that you go NC, so I think if you want to maintain or reestablish your good standing with her you kind of don't have much choice.

[FMW]

Aloha is right - nothing else matters if NC is what your wife demands for your marriage to move past this. You messed up and this is the price you pay. You can't uncross lines once you've crossed them.

 

You have to decide what is more important to you - your wife/marriage, or your sports and woman friend. Which do you feel more "agony" at the thought of losing? Which would be harder to replace?

[preraph]

Would you be cool if your wife had an EA with a man in the exact way you're having here? Would you trust her to keep the boundary? Would you trust him not to push the boundary? Wouldn't bother you at all that he'd be there standing in the wings waiting for the first time you two had an argument or wouldn't bother you at all that she happened to just run into him somewhere? Would you trust that?

 

To be honest, if this girl was truly just a friend, she would have made herself scarce as soon as she knew it was causing marriage problems for you. Your wife knows this. This is probably what your wife would do because she has ethics and doesn't want any misunderstandings or oopsies in a weak moment.

 

In my opinion, you need to stop communicating with her and anytime you see her, your wife needs to be with you. I'm sorry it's your only friend, but she's not just a friend, that's obvious.

[qoheleth]

Although I am definitely not normally of the one size fits all approach to relationship issues (even when it comes to affairs), the issue here is that your wife has specifically requested that you go NC, so I think if you want to maintain or reestablish your good standing with her you kind of don't have much choice.

 

 

That's the thing, she came to that conclusion after reading forums/sites that have do have a one size fits all approach to attachments/affairs. I do have a choice in that this is not a sentence handed down by a judge based on clear judicial guidelines. We can actually discuss what works best in the context of our relationship. I'm simply trying to see if perhaps there are other points of view.

 

 

 

Regardless though, it is true that she did request that and it's not something to be dismissed outright. In our case, after initially resisting, I did agree to her request, but after seeing the complete despair, depression & isolation it put me in, she came to me with the compromise of limited contact instead. And that's where we are now. I will honor it for as long as it takes for her to feel secure again.

[Starswillshine]

If you want your marriage to survive, then yes, NC is absolutely the right thing to do. Sir, you are playing with fire. If you love your wife and dont want to chance your marriage, stay away from this woman and all the temptation she is. Period.

 

You stated yourself, you are attracted and formed an emotional bond. She is a threat to your marriage.

[qoheleth]

One question, do you realise you wrote you miss the deeper connection with the OW over your relationship with your wife?

 

 

With the new arrangement I'm actually spending more time with my wife than ever, so there is no void in our relationship to miss...perhaps I misunderstood you though?

[mark clemson]

I'm curious if anyone out here has stories to share where the offenses committed were not so serious and earth-shattering. How did you resolve them and were you ever able to establish healthy boundaries and true friendships afterwards?

 

 

My "crime" was not so serious in that I never met my (E) AP outside of her place of work, or texted or emailed save once, or touched her physically. My "solution" was that I have never spoken to my wife about it.

 

The AP left for a new job and got rather unpleasant (cold and passive aggressive) before she did once she realized she'd be gone. So no healthy boundaries/true friendship.

 

I think having healthy boundaries with this OW is frankly wishful thinking in the sense that if it bothers your wife then it's clearly an EA at some level. The spouse's comfort level is a very important determinant. If she genuinely gave you permission to **** this woman, it wouldn't be cheating. But she's not giving you permission to be in contact with her. So being in contact is cheating.

 

You've done some reading around here already, so you're probably aware that once emotion is truly involved it becomes a slippery slope that can easily escalate. The fact that you're so keen to remain in touch IMO means it HAS escalated to a certain extent. It's her and not only the hobbies/sports - if she was truly only a friend you'd care less. If you're completely honest with yourself I'd bet you'll realize you're getting validation from her. There'd be nothing truly wrong with that alone IF it was ok with your wife. But it's not.

 

Sounds like you need to find some new hobbies my friend. Also be glad you've nipped this in the bud before it wrecked your marriage.

Edited May 6, 2019 by mark clemson

[basil67]

The fact that you're distressed about the idea of losing contact with the OW says that your wife is right - you're too close. All things considered, your wife sounds quite generous in agreeing that you can continue your sports with the caveat that you cease your close friendship with her.

[FMW]

Personally, in your wife's position I don't see myself being able to handle your "compromise" for very long at all. I think you're taking a big risk that her jealousy and resentment will turn into lasting distrust. Most happy couples don't compromise on issues involving fidelity.

[elaine567]

You appear to be missing the gravity of the situation here, not only have you entered into an affair, but you have now emotionally blackmailed your wife into accepting that you still have contact with the OW.

Your wife will be in hell over that, but who cares as long as you get to keep your lady "friend".

This is the stuff that leads to divorce, but you seem to be oblivious...

[BaileyB]

To me, affair is such a charged word used to apply to something that in reality exists on a spectrum.

 

Anytime you find yourself debating where your relationship with a woman who is not your wife is on the "spectrum" of inappropriate behavior, you have a problem...

 

Occasional texts turned into occasional hangouts (also in groups) which turned into more frequent texts. At this point I knew that I was starting to become quite attached to her. After letting her read all of the texts, I said I'd cut back, which I did for a couple weeks. But after a while, things just returned to as before. And while I wasn't hiding the fact that we texted, I wasn't completely transparent either.

 

And this, is exactly how you know you have crossed the line. You became attached to her. You said you would end contact, you lied to your wife, and you have been secretive about your continued contact. The fact that you are posting on this board, trying to find a way to make it acceptable to keep contact with your OW means that you have crossed the line.

 

As for the OW, I have been clear in my intentions to her. I have always stated that I support her relationship 100% and she says the exact same and supports my marriage as well.

 

And how exactly were you both supporting the other's marriage by spending time together, secretly texting each other and lying to your spouses, and becoming emotionally attached to a woman who is not your wife?

 

Going no contact also means removing my hobbies & pleasures from my life. We play in sports groups in a small town...there are simply no other places/outlets for me to go to.

 

Sorry friend, this is the unfortunate consequence when you have an inappropriate relationship with another woman. Just as a teenager loses the trust of his parents when he stays out until all hours with his friends and is then given some consequence and accountability in the form of a curfew... You may not be able to continue with these sporting events if you can not guarantee that you will not be alone or be able to end contact with this woman.

 

Were you ever able to establish healthy boundaries and true friendships afterwards?

 

Sorry friend, but I don't know that it's possible to establish healthy boundaries after you have effectively crossed those boundaries. It's a little like trying to get the horse back into the barn, I'm afraid.

 

I want trust and security to be restored and better relationship with my wife and a friendship with the OW where there are appropriate boundaries but still a certain level of freedom and closeness. Then again, maybe I'm just trying to justify something unsustainable?

 

I want to be able to sleep in every morning and drink coffee while sitting in the sunshine on my deck while also getting paid - unfortunately, unless I'm on holiday, that's not possible and definitely not sustainable. You want to have your cake and eat it too... you want to have appropriate boundaries while still having the ability to continue your emotional affair (with a certain level of freedom and closeness). Things just don't work that way, I'm afraid.

Edited May 6, 2019 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

Most happy couples don't compromise on issues involving fidelity.

 

No, they do not.

[Amethyst68]

With the new arrangement I'm actually spending more time with my wife than ever, so there is no void in our relationship to miss...perhaps I misunderstood you though?

 

 

 

 

You didn't misunderstand me, you wrote

 

 

 

'I miss my deeper connection with my friend but my duty and responsibility lies with my wife' (may be slightly paraphrased).

 

 

Deep connection vs duty and responsibility says a lot about your mind set! You have basically guilted your wife into allowing you into continuing your affair by sulking like a child not being able to play with their favorite toy. Grow up, I'm sure there are same sex sports clubs you can join. If not you must live in the only place I've ever heard of that doesn't have them!

 

 

You need to go NC, you know it or you wouldn't be on here looking for justification to stay in contact with your OW. Start giving your wife the respect she deserves.

[qoheleth]

Well, thanks for the dressing down everyone. Was expecting more of a discussion and not a pile on, but apparently everyone here has a binary view of relationships. Fair enough. All I can say is that whatever comes down the road, my wife must be on board with it 100% and she will tell me if it's something that makes her uncomfortable.

[BaileyB]

I would say respectfully, that people took time to share their experiences and you got some pretty kind and thoughtful responses to your question- can I keep my marriage AND the other woman.

 

Unfortunately, the response was not really what you wanted to hear. The consensus was fairly unanimous. It’s very clear that you are not really ready to hear and accept that yet.

 

I’m sure you are correct, your wife will show you the way. At this point, she is not on board 100% which is why she is asking you to end all contact with the other woman. Only time will tell if you are truly willing to respect her wishes. Good luck to you.

Edited May 7, 2019 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

That's the thing, she came to that conclusion after reading forums/sites that have do have a one size fits all approach to attachments/affairs. I do have a choice in that this is not a sentence handed down by a judge based on clear judicial guidelines. We can actually discuss what works best in the context of our relationship.

 

In other words, what would be best - for you - in the context of your relationship - is for you to stay married AND continue your relationship with another woman? That was what you wanted to hear, was it not. How is forming an attachment to another woman and lying to your wife about this beneficial - in the context of your relationship?

 

And, the fact that your wife and the good people here did not say that indicates that we all have a one size fits all approach to relationships. The fact that your wife has asked you to end communication with this woman (which you have not done) is her being judge, jury, and jailer? Is that really what you are telling yourself?

 

In our case, after initially resisting, I did agree to her request, but after seeing the complete despair, depression & isolation it put me in, she came to me with the compromise of limited contact instead. And that's where we are now. I will honor it for as long as it takes for her to feel secure again.

 

Does this mean that you will honour her request for as long as it takes her to feel secure again, and then you plan to continue doing whatever you want... which is likely to include continuing your relationship with another woman?

 

If you plan to keep your marriage, you really have no choice. You must not truly believe that your wife is unreasonable to expect you to stop communicating this woman - because she is not. No doubt, you would expect the very same if the roles were reversed. It shouldn’t be a difficult decision for you to make.

Edited May 7, 2019 by BaileyB

[Turning point]

OP, do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

 

You're having an affair, you just refuse to acknowledge it. You're already balancing the choice between your wife and an OW in a very weasel like fashion.

 

"No contact" has never been a solution to situations like this. The solution is to make a choice - whereby no contact is simply one of the results.

[Amethyst68]

And again sulking like a toddler because you didn't get the answer you wanted. OP, being married to you must be exhausting if this is your go to behaviour when things don't go your way....

[Amethyst68]

T/j

 

 

OP, I apologise for the following thread jack.

 

 

Mark,

 

 

 

I've been wondering something for a while. I've seen you wrote you don't believe in EAs or that you are really monogamous in nature. You clearly don't think your EA was a big deal although you clearly had feelings for the OW. What I'm curious about is would this kind of magnanimous kind of thinking be granted to your wife if you found out she had a similar affair and feelings for another msn?

 

 

Sorry, again for the thread jack but I don't think Mark has his own thread.

 

 

End t/j

[elaine567]

All I can say is that whatever comes down the road, my wife must be on board with it 100% and she will tell me if it's something that makes her uncomfortable.

 

She told you having any contact with the OW was making her uncomfortable, yet you ignored her feelings. Preferring to throw a pity party which resulting in you getting your own way...

Can't you see how selfish that was?

[FMW]

OP, I think the thing is that there really isn't much to discuss here. I've experienced infidelity from a few different vantage points. So if I do indeed have a binary view, it comes from the reality of my experience. No matter how much we want to make something OK, sometimes we have to accept it's just not. There is no wiggle room.

[Naivewomen]

OP, I was the OW. I am married and stepped way too far away from reality because of a friendship that escalated into a PA. Believe me I understand the deep connection of friendship ship but no good will come from this. Trust me. Before you go NC though please explain this honestly to the OW. She will understand!! Dont ghost her without an explanation. Its rude and hurtful. She became equally as vulnerable to your friendship and in order for proper closure an explanation is necessary. You are doing this out of respect for your wife and the OW will respect those words. You will need to walk through the pain you caused yourself now by getting too close to another person. The lines were crossed and were not appropriate while being married. You cant justify or rationalize it any other way.

[FoundMyStrength]

Well, thanks for the dressing down everyone. Was expecting more of a discussion and not a pile on, but apparently everyone here has a binary view of relationships. Fair enough. All I can say is that whatever comes down the road, my wife must be on board with it 100% and she will tell me if it's something that makes her uncomfortable.

 

OP, you came to this forum to hear from people who have been through this before. We all have, in some way. People aren't being harsh as much as speaking from experience. The collective experience of most on this forum is that once the line is crossed, EA or PA, you can't uncross it. And once a spouse knows, you can't undo or heal that pain if you're still indulging in a "deeper connection" with another woman.

 

You keep referencing it as a lesser crime, so to speak. But EA are intense, hard to let go of, and easy to resume. Why? Because feeling a connection is a great excuse for why staying in touch is so very necessary. You feel the loss of a connection, perhaps a love. I know this because I was the OW in an EA. I don't take a black/white view on relationships. But I do take a black/white view on what I did. On what he did. There's no gray there. And keeping in touch is pretending there's gray in a situation that is black and white hurting your wife.