Staying for Kids

[norudder]

Just a thought that often there's a vague sense of dissatisfaction that can have various causes and it's important to make the distinction.

 

Everyone is correct that it's not the spouses job to "make" someone happy. Try to fulfill yourself to the extent possible within the terms of your marriage if you need mental stimulation, take a course, go to a lecture. Social, join a club, go to a Meetup. Financial, take a part time job. Etc.

 

If that's not enough, maybe it is a need that can only be met from a spouse that isn't fulfilled. A toxic relationship can make even the happiest person unhappy, it's self preservation telling us something isn't healthy. But if he's an otherwise"good guy",. ie not toxic, it's probably emotional intimacy. And romantic emotional intimacy.

 

I don't think there's enough awareness of the importance of that in alot of relationships. He can not beat or cheat, and that's expected to be enough. People grow and change over time, needs can vary. If op is becoming more aware of a greater need for emotional connection that is reasonable to expect from the primary relationship, then that should be addressed with her H first, possibly in MC before any major decisions, but she's not wrong or a bad person/wife for wanting more in the relationship than to not be beaten on or cheated on. I think this is just as relevant for women as sex is for men. Just trade out some of the thread titles from "sexless marriage" to "intimacy-less marriage".

[Mr. Lucky]

People doing it 'for the kids' are fooling themselves. They usually do it because divorce / moving / making a living is hard and a scary proposition. Honestly, I don't believe it benefits your kids as much as harms them.

 

I read today:

 

“The greatest gift you can give to your children is your own emotional well-being.”

 

OP, whether you leave or stay, certainly applies to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[DKT3]

No rudder, the difference is men are told by other women here that they dont love their wives if they are unsatisfied with their sexlife. They are shamed and spoken down too.

 

In all honesty it sounds like OP is more bored then lonely and hasn't really attempted to fix the problem. It sounds like she is involved with another man or at least interested in other men, thus her avoiding the question asked several times.

[Millisent]

No rudder, the difference is men are told by other women here that they dont love their wives if they are unsatisfied with their sexlife. They are shamed and spoken down too.

 

In all honesty it sounds like OP is more bored then lonely and hasn't really attempted to fix the problem. It sounds like she is involved with another man or at least interested in other men, thus her avoiding the question asked several times.

 

I'm not sure what the question is I'm avoiding, I'm not responding because I soon realized that this is not the right forum for me and my issues, not because of the forum but because I can't really express the extent of the issue in this format. There is no infidelity on either part. We discuss our issues openly and there is nothing I've said here that I have not said to my husband. We love and respect each other, no one is trapped, I'm not with him because of the money, we've both weighed the options and have decided to stay together. I was just here to see if there was anyone else in a similar situation and their coping methods, because I understand that it is not an ideal situation, but it is the best option FOR US. I do plan on pushing for couples therapy and will discuss with him, if we can reconnect that would be great, if not then we'll both need to find our own coping methods.

[Turning point]

If you intend to stay for the kids - then there has to be a very specific goal that applies to their unique need or condition which can only be achieved in this way.

 

This is not the case for you. In fact, it doesn't sound like your husband is the real problem. He knows your plan, and you've declared there is nothing he can do. Well, guess what? He's not going to bother knocking on that door and neither would I. When was the last time you told or showed him how much you appreciate his loneliness or frustrations?

 

Your loneliness is a problem that is within your own control. It's you who has the power to solve that - not your husband. Raising a family is hard work, and often unrecognized or appreciated work - but, it's still up to us to find joy in our own circumstance, connection in our own community, and appreciate what we do have.

 

If you "stay for the kids" where there is no actual rescue to be performed, then you will only drag them down into your own dark view of reality. A happy home is what we make - not what we take.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Turning point

[Mr. Lucky]

I do plan on pushing for couples therapy and will discuss with him.

 

Why?

 

You describe yourselves as cooperative parents, so that’s not the issue.

 

Counseling is for those who want to better their situation and are willing to work to do so. You see yourself as an inmate, counting notches on the wall until your parole date. MC would be a waste under those circumstances and might even accelerate divorce ahead of your schedule...

 

Mr. Lucky

[AMarriedMan]

You see yourself as an inmate, counting notches on the wall until your parole date. MC would be a waste under those circumstances and might even accelerate divorce ahead of your schedule...

 

Well put. That's an important point to consider. MC is often professional help in dealing with sensitive and thorny issues you are not able to deal with on your own. It's potentially explosive.

[Mrs._December]

I'll never understand those who insist on falling on the sword for their kids, as though donning their hair shirt and crown of thorns to martyr themselves for the next 5-10-15 years in a miserable marriage makes them a saint.

 

For most of them, 'staying for the kids' is just an excuse because they're too paralyzed with fear to make the adult decision to do the hard work of leaving when they know it's the best thing for their situation. So instead, they use the kids as an excuse to stay and they get to look like a martyr.

[notbroken]

I'll never understand those who insist on falling on the sword for their kids, as though donning their hair shirt and crown of thorns to martyr themselves for the next 5-10-15 years in a miserable marriage makes them a saint.

 

For most of them, 'staying for the kids' is just an excuse because they're too paralyzed with fear to make the adult decision to do the hard work of leaving when they know it's the best thing for their situation. So instead, they use the kids as an excuse to stay and they get to look like a martyr.

 

I think you understand perfectly. I have seen way too many examples of 'staying for the kids' messing up the kids and really being about avoiding the pain and hard work associated with divorce. All it does is delay the inevitable, produce more (not less) pain, and harm the kids instead of help. Fix it or break it - ASAP.

[AMarriedMan]

I'll never understand those who insist on falling on the sword for their kids, as though donning their hair shirt and crown of thorns to martyr themselves for the next 5-10-15 years in a miserable marriage makes them a saint.

 

While people's circumstances may vary, I don't understand making oneself out to be some sort of martyr, either, when one actually has choice.

 

For most of them, 'staying for the kids' is just an excuse because they're too paralyzed with fear to make the adult decision to do the hard work of leaving when they know it's the best thing for their situation. So instead, they use the kids as an excuse to stay and they get to look like a martyr.

 

I find my marriage pretty unsatisfactory, too, and my wife is unwilling to discuss any sensitive issues we disagree on in a constructive adult fashion. But I'm not in a hurry to get a divorce. Experience has taught me that we are much better parents co-parenting than doing it separately. We sometimes fight but I try to avoid that these days. The semi-cool standoff we're in now is a result of me successfully putting just the right amount of distance between us. It's much better than the yelling and screaming on part of my wife that used to take place at least a couple of times a week in the past.

 

I know we're not setting a great example for our child to follow when she grows up but that ship has long since sailed. I don't think getting a divorce now would result in either of us being likely to find a new spouse and building much better relationships with them for our child to model her future relationships after. We are both fat and ugly middle aged people with not so great chances of finding much better partners among those out there on the market, mostly divorcees with kids on tow and other baggage. Divorcing now would unnecessarily destabilize the family environment and introduce the possibility us ending up of fighting over a host of new issues.

 

Besides, I'm done with intimate relationships anyway. While I could get into shape, and I may have to out of health reasons alone, I realize I'm not the hottest guy around, particularly facing considerable uncertainty in my career. Secondly, everybody loves to say how intimate male-female relationship involve a lot of hard work, and they're right. I think I've had my share of hardship in that department. When our daughter leaves the nest, it will most likely be time for me to move on as well. It will likely to not even come down to my own choice.

 

Post divorce, I'm planning to settle down to living a quiet life alone and focusing on my hobbies. I'll help out my daughter to the best of my ability if need be. My then-ex will have to come to terms with the consequences of her lack of emotional self-control and maturity, and her self-centeredness.

[amaysngrace]

Well that’s cruel.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know we're not setting a great example for our child to follow when she grows up but that ship has long since sailed. I don't think getting a divorce now would result in either of us being likely to find a new spouse and building much better relationships with them for our child to model her future relationships after. We are both fat and ugly middle aged people with not so great chances of finding much better partners among those out there on the market, mostly divorcees with kids on tow and other baggage. Divorcing now would unnecessarily destabilize the family environment and introduce the possibility us ending up of fighting over a host of new issues.

 

AMarriedMan, your post just makes me sad, simply because you're setting such a low ceiling on your life. IMHO, there are better decisions and choices for almost all the options you present. And I'd guess the wealthy super-models are posting on other forums, most of us here are imperfect individuals trying to do the right things in life and relationships.

 

Don't give up on yourself...

 

Mr. Lucky

[DKT3]

Unfortunately mr lucky, I suspect this is a factor in why alot of people stay married. Fear of not being able to attract someone else

[AMarriedMan]

AMarriedMan, your post just makes me sad, simply because you're setting such a low ceiling on your life.

 

[...]

 

Don't give up on yourself...

 

 

Even if I were in a position to attract someone I found truly attractive, I think I would want to go my own way anyway. I know myself pretty well, including my strengths and weaknesses and the typical ways in which I respond to various things. I have enough experience to know how much pleasure, utility and meaning I'm likely to get from relationships, not including my current one, to know that they're probably not worth the effort, which is considerable in terms of finding a suitable partner with mutual attraction between us, and handling the inevitable conflicts that arise from the task of joining two lives together. One thing I absolutely hate is caught in the middle of conflicts between two or more people who are important to me, such as my wife and my close relatives in the past. I don't want to deal with any such bull**** ever again. It's a source of stress and takes away from time better spent thinking about something different altogether. If I got into a relationship with another woman most likely having children and exes of her own, I know there is a good chance that type of **** would flare up once again. I want no part of anything of that nature.

 

When I was much younger, I thought I had to have a girlfriend to feel complete. I was also curious as to how it would feel to be in a loving and intimate relationship, not to mention sexually hungry. It always felt good at first. But it's never easy down the road. I know that from my experience and all my friends I've talked about their experiences with say the same.

 

There are other sources of meaning in life. I have a child whose well-being will always remain a very high priority to me. I have communities I'm part of and several important hobbies and interests. Besides, if I won't have enough money to keep one woman happy, I'm unlikely to have enough for two!

 

This isn't just about myself but others. I do not want to expose others to my bull**** any more than I want to deal with other people's BS.

[AMarriedMan]

Unfortunately mr lucky, I suspect this is a factor in why alot of people stay married. Fear of not being able to attract someone else

 

I'm sure it is. But not in my case because I don't want to attract anyone else.

[AMarriedMan]

I have enough experience to know how much pleasure, utility and meaning I'm likely to get from relationships, not including my current one, to know that they're probably not worth the effort,

 

Should read "including my current one" and not "not including my current one".

 

Thanks alot LS for not allowing me to edit that.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks alot LS for not allowing me to edit that.

 

Some threads are already confusing enough, can't imagine what would happen if we were allowed edits after responses had been posted.

 

There are other sources of meaning in life. I have a child whose well-being will always remain a very high priority to me. I have communities I'm part of and several important hobbies and interests.

 

A good relationship doesn't supplant any of that, in fact it augments it. Perhaps some day, in a better place and more positive frame of mind, you'll feel differently...

 

Mr. Lucky

[AMarriedMan]

A good relationship doesn't supplant any of that, in fact it augments it.

 

I had to cut back time spent on certain hobbies quite a bit since I got involved with my then-to-be wife. One of my hobbies was lost totally. Another important one I could spend a lot less time on. That was all fine as it was my choice to begin with.

 

We shouldn't be fooling ourselves. Maintaining relationships takes time and time is limited. Only if your partner were into the exact same things as you to the exact same extent would that not apply. But would you even want to spend all your time except for sleep and work with glued to your partner?

 

Perhaps some day, in a better place and more positive frame of mind, you'll feel differently...

 

I don't think so. And I think it should shock nobody. There are countless people who prefer to live the single life in the developed world.

[TheRainbow]

Find some hobbies. It isn't fair to expect him to fix your loneliness. Maybe find a part time job or find some kind of activity where you can reconnect with other people. Or maybe plan some date nights, think back to when you two first met.

[BaileyB]

I know we're not setting a great example for our child to follow when she grows up but that ship has long since sailed.

 

I don’t know, is it ever too late? Don’t children watch and learn from their parents every moment of their lives, from the moment they are born until the moment they die. Is it ever too late for your child to see their parent find happiness, to learn that their parents have the self respect to leave an unhealthy marriage, to watch their parents face adversity with courage and grace, and perhaps - to find a new relationship such that the child can see their parent be loved and respected by another person.

 

I don’t think so. And neither does my boyfriend, who tried to stay “for the kids” until he decided that it was too much to ask. Five years, he suffered after the divorce - putting his happiness on hold to reestablish financial and emotional security for his son. And then, he met me. And now, we are teaching his son what it is to be in a healthy relationship. His son now has the ability to see his dad be happy, for the first time in his young life...

 

I don't think getting a divorce now would result in either of us being likely to find a new spouse and building much better relationships with them for our child to model her future relationships after. We are both fat and ugly middle aged people with not so great chances of finding much better partners among those out there on the market, mostly divorcees with kids on tow and other baggage.

 

What an increadibly pessimistic view of yourself, and your future. That’s very sad.

[zouz71]

just want to comment on couple of things when staying for kids is the path chosen .

 

 

-If the current situation doesn't involve any abuse , and the scope of resentment between partners has boundaries and doesn't involve the feelings of kids ; staying could be a better choice for their sake ; on the other hand it teaches them patience on not leaving an LTR just like that without anyalyzing Pros/cons

 

 

 

-I was separated for 1 full year from my wife , and we rejoined ,so we practically have experienced the life after DD ; it was very disturbing for the kids to worry about their financial needs , splitting time among us , getting their emotional needs ...etc

 

 

 

 

 

Every now and then they see us arguing like we did it 3 times in 8 month ,arguing without assaults for an hour or so , mainly about life necessities and priorities , and even if my wife gets crazy , I just calm her without doing the same , or raging , I just leave it open and choose another corner in the house ...

 

 

I want to say , disagreements if they happen in front of kids is a normal thing , what is not normal is that if things goes out of control .

 

 

 

 

I believe Marriedman is in my position , sacrificing for kids" better life , as they need both their father and mother until they fly .

 

 

 

 

If they learn it properly , they will learn not to avoid conflicts , nor leave just to escape , they will learn to contain conflicts better than us.

 

 

 

 

The main cause is not just incompatibility in similar cases it is more the selfishness of one of the partners , and unwillingness to give .

 

 

That's my 2 cents .

[zouz71]

And by the way , during the separation year , I met a lady who can make me happy , but choosing her meant that I will not be able to satisfy both my new lady needs and my kids needs ( Physical ,emotional,and financial).

 

 

I took the decision in coordination with wife to get back together .

[AMarriedMan]

just want to comment on couple of things when staying for kids is the path chosen .

 

-If the current situation doesn't involve any abuse , and the scope of resentment between partners has boundaries and doesn't involve the feelings of kids ; staying could be a better choice for their sake ; on the other hand it teaches them patience on not leaving an LTR just like that without anyalyzing Pros/cons

 

 

Spot on. Ending a marriage is difficult by design. The entire point of the institution of marriage is to bind two people together. Absent abuse or any acute and pressing concern, any reasonable person will carefully weigh pros and cons.

 

-I was separated for 1 full year from my wife , and we rejoined ,so we practically have experienced the life after DD ; it was very disturbing for the kids to worry about their financial needs , splitting time among us , getting their emotional needs ...etc

 

It is most interesting to hear from someone who has had that experience. My wife and I are not on the same page with regard to finances. I'm a saver and and investor and worry about financial security a lot more than she does. For as long as our daughter is a minor, there would be no such thing as divorcing financially. Suppose my wife had residential custody of our daughter. Then I'd pay her child support. I'm pretty sure she would come asking for money for our child's needs after overspending on her own stuff just like she does now. If we were separated, she'd have one weapon at her disposal that she now does not have: the ability to interfere with my seeing my daughter. Also, whenever the stresses of work and parenting alone most of the time would make her stressed out and want to take it out on somebody, our daughter would be alone at the receiving end of that. Could I trust the authorities to help me? Based on what I know about how the social services treated a friend of mine after his ex wife made baseless accusations - even when he could prove them as such - I have no trust in any authorities in these matters.

 

Besides, I don't think I would even want to have my daughter live with me full time. Despite my wife and I not getting along nearly as well I would prefer, she's a woman and her mother and much better at handling her emotionally and dealing with her issues as she grows up than I am.

 

Every now and then they see us arguing like we did it 3 times in 8 month ,arguing without assaults for an hour or so , mainly about life necessities and priorities , and even if my wife gets crazy , I just calm her without doing the same , or raging , I just leave it open and choose another corner in the house ...

 

That's how I do it, too. I remain externally calm and unresponsive. Over the years, I have become internally much more unresponsive as well.

 

I want to say , disagreements if they happen in front of kids is a normal thing , what is not normal is that if things goes out of control .

 

Exactly. There is no substance abuse or any violence in our family. We have never had shouting matches lasting for hours or anything like that.

 

I believe Marriedman is in my position , sacrificing for kids" better life , as they need both their father and mother until they fly .

 

Exactly. My sacrifice is not so much in foregoing an opportunity of finding a better partner as sacrificing an opportunity to live alone. I tend to get along with people best if I'm at a liberty to regulate the distance between myself and them. That is difficult to do in an intimate relationship and living with them.

 

If they learn it properly , they will learn not to avoid conflicts , nor leave just to escape , they will learn to contain conflicts better than us.

 

Some people seem to believe that mere containment is not enough and that optimization is key. They want to tinker and improve their relationships and if they can't, those relationships can go when they go looking for new ones.

 

The main cause is not just incompatibility in similar cases it is more the selfishness of one of the partners , and unwillingness to give .

 

It's often power dynamics. In today's Western societies and the rest if the developed world, the balance of power and responsibilities in family matters favors women at men's cost. This precisely why so many men eschew starting families. Too many have seen male relatives or friends getting rekt in family courts or divorce situations in general.

[AMarriedMan]

And by the way , during the separation year , I met a lady who can make me happy , but choosing her meant that I will not be able to satisfy both my new lady needs and my kids needs ( Physical ,emotional,and financial).

 

That's exactly what I mean. As long as I have a minor child who is not a grown-up living her own life out there, I would always have to weigh her needs against what my new relationship needed. And knowing my wife, I'm certain that my being in a happy new relationship would not sit well with her. She could make our lives difficult by using our daughter as a tool to interfere with that. Also, my hypothetical new partner would most likely have children and an ex-spouse of her own. The result would be likely to result in a complicated matrix of relationships with tensions and conflicts potentially cropping up everywhere.

 

I can be different for other people but I'm intensely uncomfortable in situations like that. I feel it would be a complete waste of life to spend a minute suffering from anything like that.

[AMarriedMan]

I don’t know, is it ever too late? Don’t children watch and learn from their parents every moment of their lives, from the moment they are born until the moment they die.

 

If that is the case, then why hurry getting divorced?

 

I don’t think so. And neither does my boyfriend, who tried to stay “for the kids” until he decided that it was too much to ask. Five years, he suffered after the divorce - putting his happiness on hold to reestablish financial and emotional security for his son. And then, he met me. And now, we are teaching his son what it is to be in a healthy relationship. His son now has the ability to see his dad be happy, for the first time in his young life...

 

Good for him. We all have different circumstances and different stories.

 

What an increadibly pessimistic view of yourself, and your future. That’s very sad.

 

Relationships simply aren't end-all and be-all for everyone. I've always been the sort of person to enjoy things rather than people. Not necessarily physical things but ideas. I do have sex drive like everyone else but there are other outlets for it than a committed relationship and everything that comes with that.

Edited May 21, 2019 by AMarriedMan