MyWorldView Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Last night I hung out with a few of my girlfriends. One of them started crying almost immediately after her first glass of wine. Of course we were all concerned and asked her what was wrong. She said 'I had one of my tantrums again. We broke up.' She went on about how she always picks the wrong guy. All my friends start telling her to not worry about him because he's intimidated by her career and that she's smart and beautiful. That she can have any man she wants and she just hasn't found the man who is 'worthy' of her. I suggested maybe she has deep rooted issues that need addressing and that she keeps dragging these issues from one relationship to another without sorting them out. We all know that she can be unreasonable at times, but the dynamic is different with your girlfriends vs. your romantic mate. Three (including her) of my five friends got mad at me for saying that. The other 2 silently agreed. Then we all started arguing. We've all been friends for over 10 years. I was being honest and did not think that we should gloss over the fact that she has a pattern. She is beautiful and very successful, but that is not all that's need to be in a mutually loving relationship. Was I wrong to bring that up? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 What good are friends if they can't be brutally honest with you? If I am effing up I want my friends to tell me and I will certainly tell them. It is better than letting them continue on a destructive path. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Hopefully after a day or two cooling down they will see what you said in the light of how it was intended. If not, as much as it hurts to lose or weaken friendships, it's ultimately her life and her issues, not yours. Not everyone is skilled at self-reflection. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Lemming Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Any adult that throws temper tantrums like a two year old child, doesn't want constructive criticism, she just wants someone to agree with her. You know she isn't going to change based on "words of wisdom" from anyone, friends or family. Until she looks in the mirror and grows up and stops throwing these little tantrums, no guy (worth his salt) is going to stay or want to stay. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Was I wrong to bring that up? Guess (as usual ), I'll take the minority view. You're not her therapist and a shared glass of wine isn't the time for amateur psychoanalysis. So while you don't have to chime in on the "you go, girl!" affirmations, I would have simply remained quiet and kept my opinions to myself. Had she asked you in a sober one-on-one setting, maybe different story. YMMV... Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Guess (as usual ), I'll take the minority view. You're not her therapist and a shared glass of wine isn't the time for amateur psychoanalysis. So while you don't have to chime in on the "you go, girl!" affirmations, I would have simply remained quiet and kept my opinions to myself. Had she asked you in a sober one-on-one setting, maybe different story. YMMV... Mr. Lucky ^^^ This. It also depends on how you voiced your opinions. Did you make it sound like you’re some relationship authority? You could also have waited until you and this friend are alone to gently let her see a different perspective. In general, be very cautious about giving unsolicited opinions, especially in front of others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) i think its more about your timing was off.....it wasnt the right time to tell her any truths.....just be supportive as a friend when a friend is upset and crying.. it was your time to listen as a friend.... honesty is always best but with everything in life honesty has a time and a place to be the most productive.....sometimes silence is the answer so you can hear what really needs to be said at a later time that will really help her ...instead of make her feel more crappy ...and more upset....being honest is a true friend...but what is a true best friend ...is knowing when to listen and just be there and when the truth,when said will help the most and be taken in and understood.........deb Edited May 14, 2019 by todreaminblue 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Depends on the audience really. There are some people in life who you smile at, pat on the head and tell how wonderful they are. And there are others who are deserving of a more honest conversation. Because they're smart and strong enough to handle it. If there's a chance she took what you said to heart then good job. If not, next time just show her the pearly whites. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Maybe in the future pull her aside and be honest with her instead of saying it in front of everybody. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 What good are friends if they can't be brutally honest with you? If I am effing up I want my friends to tell me and I will certainly tell them. It is better than letting them continue on a destructive path. Thank you! I feel the same way. When I wanted to pursue my art full time they all chimed in with their opinion, some were not as nice as others, but I listened and took it all into consideration. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 What good are friends if they can't be brutally honest with you? If I am effing up I want my friends to tell me and I will certainly tell them. It is better than letting them continue on a destructive path. Thank you! I feel the same way. I want them to be honest with me too. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 Hopefully after a day or two cooling down they will see what you said in the light of how it was intended. If not, as much as it hurts to lose or weaken friendships, it's ultimately her life and her issues, not yours. Not everyone is skilled at self-reflection. I hope so. I really meant no harm. I would hope that after 10 yrs of friendship she'd know that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 Any adult that throws temper tantrums like a two year old child, doesn't want constructive criticism, she just wants someone to agree with her. You know she isn't going to change based on "words of wisdom" from anyone, friends or family. Until she looks in the mirror and grows up and stops throwing these little tantrums, no guy (worth his salt) is going to stay or want to stay. That's what I meant, but I definitely did not say it like that. I told her that she has to figure out what triggers the tantrums. Is it the same topic/question that arises in every relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 Guess (as usual ), I'll take the minority view. You're not her therapist and a shared glass of wine isn't the time for amateur psychoanalysis. So while you don't have to chime in on the "you go, girl!" affirmations, I would have simply remained quiet and kept my opinions to myself. Had she asked you in a sober one-on-one setting, maybe different story. YMMV... Mr. Lucky The funny thing is, they all know I went through 3 years of intense therapy and tend to call me the Dr. when it comes to stuff like that. Over the years, we've all cried in our wine, I don't know why last night was any different. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 i think its more about your timing was off.....it wasnt the right time to tell her any truths.....just be supportive as a friend when a friend is upset and crying.. it was your time to listen as a friend.... honesty is always best but with everything in life honesty has a time and a place to be the most productive.....sometimes silence is the answer so you can hear what really needs to be said at a later time that will really help her ...instead of make her feel more crappy ...and more upset....being honest is a true friend...but what is a true best friend ...is knowing when to listen and just be there and when the truth,when said will help the most and be taken in and understood.........deb I understand what you're saying but I always felt that in our circle of six, in 10 years we have all been brutally honest at one point or another with each other, yet this time they turned on me. I said something to her like 'we all have to take care of our selves first. What are you holding onto that is so sensitive that you erupt like that?' 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author MyWorldView Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 ^^^ This. It also depends on how you voiced your opinions. Did you make it sound like you’re some relationship authority? You could also have waited until you and this friend are alone to gently let her see a different perspective. In general, be very cautious about giving unsolicited opinions, especially in front of others. I did not use an authoritative voice nor was I condescending. We all share so much during our wine times, I felt like it was the best time for us all to chime in. Apparently, I was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) I did not use an authoritative voice nor was I condescending. We all share so much during our wine times, I felt like it was the best time for us all to chime in. Apparently, I was wrong. You were. Immediately after a breakup is not the time to suggest someone has underlying problems. You could at least have the decency to wait a week or so for her to finish processing the most raw emotions at the end of the relationship. She will probably launch into introspection herself once the initial shock has worn off. To suggest she do some self-examination (even if that's warranted) while she's literally sitting there in tears and the pain is still brand-new is cruel. Edited May 15, 2019 by lana-banana Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 The funny thing is, they all know I went through 3 years of intense therapy and tend to call me the Dr. when it comes to stuff like that. Then I'd hope that journey has made you empathetic enough to know when to offer up and when to shut up. To me, neither the time nor place to give blunt feedback. Were it me, I'd apologize... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) I understand what you're saying but I always felt that in our circle of six, in 10 years we have all been brutally honest at one point or another with each other, yet this time they turned on me. I said something to her like 'we all have to take care of our selves first. What are you holding onto that is so sensitive that you erupt like that?' I guess its that one point in time or another ...point in time....meaning not all the time....at different times....this wasnt the point in time...mr lucky said an apology might be in order......and if it were me i would.....because my friendships matter to me more than whether i was wrong or even right..... i apologise if i feel i have hurt somebody......most of the time they say dont be silly deb you have done nothing wrong........ you were being honest ...im sorry your friends turned on you i dont feel that was right for them to do either....it becomes like a bit of gang verbal bashing.....and i dont agree with friends ganging up on one...it didnt help the friend by them doing that........the drinking wouldnt help either not for the friend and not you..and not your other friends......next truth session make sure no alcohol is present.... maybe when you talk to this friend again apologise say you never wanted to hurt her at all.....you thought you were helping her.....if you havent already ...i have this little niggle you might have already apologised.... feelings sometimes.....need a gentle hand and a soft voice.....this was one of these times you needed to be gentle and thoughtful...of her.....she admitted to a tantrum...she knows what she did wrong...be her friend.....and help her through...singledom again..advice can come later when she is stronger and ready to move on...my advice skip the drinking when you offer advice.....save th edrinking for girls nights with heavy bass and a sick club dance...where you cant offer any advice because...":0)...you cannot hear each other...over a bass bouncin beat....deb Edited May 15, 2019 by todreaminblue Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I think you need to do some introspection here too, in what planet is it Ok to tell a close friend who is grieving over a relationship some brutal honest "truth". She and your friends rounded on you as it was cruel, inappropriate and unnecessary. That conversation if needed, should have been handled with sensitivity and a degree of empathy. There is a time and a place, this was neither. Who is yanking your chain? Why did you feel it necessary to lash out here? I guess this had nothing to do with your friend and the situation she is in, and more to do with you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Honesty is good but not when someone is emotionally distressed. One of the things that I can't stand is when people criticize me and they are getting it all wrong. They make a lot of assumptions about my thought processes and behaviours. When I try to explain, they become even more convinced that they are right. Maybe it just happens to me because I'm difficult to understand. So if she tells you that you are wrong, don't just assume that it's because she doesn't want to hear the truth. For example, when I decided to do a PhD, most of my friends and then my boyfriend kept telling me that I'm only doing it because I don't want to get a real job and want to be an eternal student. They inferred that from the fact that I hated doing housework. No housework=laziness=not wanting to get a job=becoming a student to avoid jobs. Every time I argued my point, they accused me of "truth hurts". The truth was, I hated menial nature of housework and I did a PhD because of a genuine interest in the topic and in hope it will help me advance my career. In fact, I started a full time job a week after I submitted my thesis. By then, I got most of those toxic people out of my life. There were rare instances people were critical but so insightful that I realized what they were saying was totally right and was open to change. This is my long winded way of saying that maybe you are not as right about the perception of your friend as you think. Maybe she acts in the way she does for the reasons that you don't understand and maybe this guy was simply a douche... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) This is my long winded way of saying that maybe you are not as right about the perception of your friend as you think. Maybe she acts in the way she does for the reasons that you don't understand and maybe this guy was simply a douche... When someone identifies themselves that "I had one of my tantrums again" then the likelihood is it's not them, it's you. Tantrum is a very childish and immature word that suggests that OP's friend is emotionally immature and cannot handle conflict very well. When she is self aware enough to realise that she has tantrums I think she is ready to be gently told some home truths about how her behaviour and immaturity may be self-sabotaging. In fact I would suggest that a good deal of the issues I see in women these days is because they get too much "you go girl, you can have any man you like!" advice from their friends and it just isn't realistic and manifests itself in diva-like behaviour because they feel they can do no wrong and their tantrums or whatever should not only be tolerated but respected. Thus, they never grow up and these days I am seeing a lot of women in their late 30's with the emotional maturity of high school girls! So OP, I think the message, if delivered gently, was absolutely right, the timing perhaps was a bit off Edited May 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) Honesty is good but not when someone is emotionally distressed. I also know people who love to give unsolicited opinions that are wrong. That’s the most annoying indeed. Edited May 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Blind-Sided Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Obviously I only herd one side of this story... but if you have known this person for 10 years, and watched her go through a few men, and honestly think she has an issue... then I'm going to say... YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. But, maybe not at the right time. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Thank you! I feel the same way. When I wanted to pursue my art full time they all chimed in with their opinion, some were not as nice as others, but I listened and took it all into consideration. Did you ask for their opinions or did they just impose them on you? It was amusing when I read that you gals “started to argue” after your unsolicited opinions. Learn to respect others. Link to post Share on other sites
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