Mamba Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Quite simply, he loves himself more than any love he has for you, or even his wife. The only way to truly test his love for you is to take yourself off his hands and flush the truth of his love out (if it is there) and see if he can stomach life without you. But even then, he may still love you but not enough to go through the pain and inconvenience of divorce. As I say, he loves himself more than any love for you. If he can't love you enough, let someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 this is confusing me very much... if he loves me why is he not doing anything to marry me? why is he okay with causing me pain? and when i ask him why are you okay with me being sad, he refuses to answer.... and deep down i know he loves me.... can anyone help me understand please......? How do you KNOW deep down he loves you? What makes you think that? Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 He loves his child more than he will ever love you. He will not break his family. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 i wish every MM would see how much pain the OW is in and decide "i am going to marry her and give her the respect and love she deserves" hmmmm..... fantasies.... Sleeping with a married man isn't exactly a respectable way to behave though, is it. And yes, I realise he's no better. You need to have respect for yourself before others will give it to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 @beentheretoooften, I know you are hurting so hang in there! One day at a time! Your family will thank their lucky stars that you did not ruin your entire family. Keep up with IC and invest in the hardworking it will be worth it! No offense, but please stop assuming you know how his family feels. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Let's say a man loves two women. One of them he has stood before friends and family and promised to love her forever. The other he has required to remain secret. One of them is the mother of his child. The other is not. One of them is legally entitled to half of their assets. The other is not. Leaving one of them would cause a huge, painful, public adjustment for three people. Leaving the other would cause a secret adjustment for two people. It's not about you. It never was. If he cared about your well-being he would never have allowed you to be a dirty secret. Expecting him to upend his entire life and the life of his wife and child for you is completely unrealistic. You have no claim to him. They do. If he were an honorable person he wouldn't be having an affair, so why are you expecting honor from him? On the flip side, where is your concern for how a divorce would impact him and the two people he is supposed to support and protect? Remember that love is patient and kind. It doesn't rejoice in wrongdoing but lives large in the truth. Remember that neither of you can properly love others until you love yourselves. Remember that you have willingly put yourself in the wrong situation, and now you expect the person benefiting from the wrongness of the situation to make it right for you. You're the only person who can do that. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
MetallicHue Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I’m reminded of the saying you can’t have your cake and eat it too and that’s exactly what MM is doing. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 He is not hurting you at this point. YOU are hurting you, by staying in this relationship. He has been very honest with you. If you fail to accept that he has no intention of leaving his family, and if you chose to stay in this affair - that’s on you. Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Love doesn't mean the same thing for everyone. So the MM saying he loves you might be absolutely true - but he very well may NOT experience and express love in the same way you do. The MM I was involved with once told me his wife told him he didn't know what love was. I actually felt bad for him because i think it really bothered him that maybe he really wasn't capable of it. I believed him when he told me, repeatedly over three years, that he loved me. But love for him is not what it is for most of us. So always judge by their actions. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 when i ask him why are you okay with me being sad, he refuses to answer.... and deep down i know he loves me.... One does not equal the other. His silence when he ask him why he hurts you does not mean that he loves you. Perhaps, he feels some guilt for continuing this affair, even when he knows you are in pain. Perhaps, he is reconciling his own selfish interest to continue, even when he knows you are in pain. Perhaps, he’s wishing you would stop trying to make him feel badly or guilt him into leaving his wife and “get with the program...” Whatever he is thinking in the moment, it’s not love and it’s not concern for your wellbeing. Because, if that is what he was thinking he wouldn’t be continuing this affair with you... Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Why is your pain more important than the pain his child would have if his dad left? More important than the pain of his wife if he left her? This man has told you exactly what he is prepared to give you, exactly what he is prepared to do. You have been told this by him, more than once so there can be no mistake, no doubt. You are in your current position due to your own choice, why should he leave his wife? The man simply doesn't want to, he's never going to want to. If you don't want to be in pain then move on, grieve, then find a single man! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) The question posed by this thread has two answers - one for compartmentalization and another for the fluidity of the human experience. For people who compartmentalize, life is as simple as stepping out the box with your wife and child, and stepping into the box with your mistress. Hence the futile argument that if someone really loved you they would choose your box. The question I have is who owns and creates these compartments? The MM steps back and forth between boxes and the OW stays put wondering why her box is not the only thing he sees. Isn't it the OW that traps herself in a box of her own making? Isn't it the married man who by moving from box to box recognizes the fluidity and connection of everything? He need only to enforce temporary levies to keep the OW flowing around his marriage rather than flooding into it. If these compartments don't exist then both possibilities co-exist and there is no choice to be made. Nothing needs to change for a person in this circumstance. Just eat cake and enjoy. Edited August 11, 2019 by Turning point Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 He's only "sad" because you have started to rock the boat and are trying to stop him from eating that cake mentioned above, op. This is what you get when you get with a married man... Nothing more than what you've gotten. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 some of you read my other threads and saw that he told me he doesn't love me and loves her... he has said sorry about that, has said he loves me and not her... and has said he wants to leave her. i know this guy loves me.... so how can he just stay like this knowing i am sad ? why isn't he taking steps to be with me..... i wish there was some magical solution for this. but i know there isn't and i am suffering alone while he is spending time with her...... He said he loves her, then he said he loves you instead. The only thing you know for sure is he told you a huge lie (whether it was when he said either statement). Let that fact be your guide! "i know this guy loves me"--sorry, but you don't really know that. All you know is how he behaves! Actions, not words! He has already shown you he is a total liar. The magical solution for this is to start loving yourself more than you love him. Then you will end it and begin to see it for what it always was. "he tells me "try to understand. how can i see my child grow up if i leave" This statement alone shows how super selfish he is. He knows you suffer greatly, but is not concerned about that at all. He is only thinking of himself. This is an excuse he believes you will accept. Getting better begins with demanding better! Only you can save yourself! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) i wish every MM would see how much pain the OW is in and decide "i am going to marry her and give her the respect and love she deserves" ... and I wish that every silly woman like yourself has the personal boundaries in place to exit herself from the infatuation she is feeling for a married man when she sees it developing. Unless he lied to you about his status, YOU are the author of your own misfortune. That statement I quoted? I hope one day you see the ridiculousness of it. "The respect and love she deserves?" Dear you don't deserve any of that when you are honing in on a marriage and enabling a man to cheat. I'll add even more weight to the hammer in hope of getting you off the denial train you are insisting on riding on. YOU have a great fear of commitment to be hanging onto someone you sub consciously know without a doubt will not leave his wife for you. In your fear of commitment he is safe to you because you know you will never have to. Look into therapy to help you figure out why you haven't ended this nonsense. You will never find a good man to spend your life with as long as you have the fear you have to actually having to commit. Edited August 12, 2019 by Beendaredonedat 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 When I was very young and "hurting" over some man, I was under the mistaken belief that the more I showed how hurt I was, the more it would affect him and it would send him back to me. BUT that was stupid. How upset I was had absolutely no effect on a man who had decided it was over. When I subsequently dumped someone else and one day he was crying because he wanted me back, I felt a bit sorry for him, but he was still dumped. His raw emotion had little or no effect on how I felt about him, just like previously my raw emotion had no effect on the guy who dumped me years before. So dry your eyes, abandoned2018, you cannot emotionally blackmail this guy to marry you. He doesn't want to, and no amount of you "hurting" will change his mind. Who wants to be with a crybaby anyway? People are generally attracted to happy positive people, not those wallowing in self pity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) op, it's very possible he loves you. mind you, he also loves his wife. The thing you have forgotten is that, to him, "love" doesn't equate to fidelity, kindness or decent treatment. What you are seeing when he cheats on his wife is who he is. She's not forcing him to cheat any more than you are. He's doing that all on his own. He says he loves his wife, yet look at how he's treating her. My dear, you are no different. Being with him and loving him means accepting the limitations of his love for you. As it stands right now, I don't think you love him at all. You love who you think he could be or the potential you think he has. Unless he is willing to do one hell of a lot of work on himself and explore the facets of his psyche that allow him to be in two relationships ( or more) at the same time, one of which involves a formal commitment, what you see with him is what you get. What are the facets of your psyche that allow you to see what he does as acceptable? Why do you choose to be unhappy? Edited August 12, 2019 by pepperbird Link to post Share on other sites
solostand Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I was once in your exact same situation. I was on here posting my angst and trying to prove that he really loved me and it would all work out. Then he told me he could not leave his wife and children. He just couldn't. I TRIED to convince him in every single way possible, to the point of almost insanity. I thought I would NEVER get over him. It is five years later. When I recall this time in my life, I realize that I was broken, and my attempt to control the situation was my cry for validation. So I learned to love myself. And although I still now have fond memories of that time in my life, I know I will NEVER settled for someone else's man again. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 So dry your eyes, abandoned2018, you cannot emotionally blackmail this guy to marry you. Oh goodness, no. Although, you are certainly trying... He has been very clear with you - he has no intention of leaving his marriage. As has been said so many times, you are the cause of your own pain at this point. How long is this going to go on... You will need to change your name to abandoned2019, and then abandoned2020. Seriously, don’t waste your life on this man. He is not worth it. He is never going to be yours, and the sooner you accept this fact the better it will be for you. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 this is confusing me very much... if he loves me why is he not doing anything to marry me? why is he okay with causing me pain? and when i ask him why are you okay with me being sad, he refuses to answer.... and deep down i know he loves me.... can anyone help me understand please......? Because he loves himself most and the life has with his wife and kids. They have a history and lives entwined with family, in laws and friends. It's too much for him to walk away from all that he knows and loves to start a new life with you. His marriage isn't as awful as he may have made it seem. Comes down to this, those who want a divorce, do so regardless if someone else is in the picture or not. In your situation it seems his marriage wasn't bad at all, he put himself in a position where he has to choose. I hope you find the self love and respect for yourself, end your A and move on. Otherwise he'll keep you on a string for years to come and you'll be where you are now in 5 years. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Sometimes I think it would benefit OW to be a fly on the wall so they could see MM in his home life. They may get a very different perspective than the one he feeds them. Mind you, there is oftne a HUGE amount of willful blindness, projection and just plain hopefulness on the part of ow. In that respect, they are just like a bs who sees what they want to see. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
gettinoverit Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 My God Abandoned, I feel like I want to reach through the computer screen and shake you, or stage an intervention or something!!! Your pain is palpable. I know it and I get it. But you MUST start getting a grip on yourself. You have absolutely zero control over this guy. You only have control over yourself. And you are destroying yourself over this! You are wasting your life! Do you really want to live like this another day, let alone another week, month or year??! HE HAS MADE HIS CHOICE. AND IT ISN'T YOU. No matter how much you want it to be different, it isn't. NOW you need to take that and run with it. You have a chance to create a whole new life for yourself based on what you want to do. PLEASE make today Day 1. Cut him off. He is NOT an option for you. Sit down with a pen and paper and start mapping out how you want the rest of your life to be. Start with WHO you want to be. I bet your dream person isn't this lost, low, grovelling mess, right? WHO are you? How do you want to see yourself? Strong, proud, attractive? Figure out how to become her. What does she do for work? how about her hobbies and interests? What is she passionate about? Start getting excited about her, her new life, and where it's going to take her, all the possiiblities and options open to her. CUT THIS MAN OFF. No, it's not that easy, but it IS that necessary. Otherwise another year from now you will be exactly where you still are. You will be so proud of yourself when you finally lift up out of this on your own strength. You will know what self love really feels like. Stop looking for it from external sources that can't give it to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 op, You can get over him! I know that sounds impossible, but it's true. You don't have to do it all at once. If you feel overwhelmed, set a small goal for the day. For example, if you check his social media accounts every day, set a goal for yourself for the day that you won't check them. If a day is too much, start with even a few hours. Show yourself, even with baby steps at first, that you can and will survive without him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author abandoned2018 Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 It's Over he sent me a chat message on 13th aug saying "uhhh you are so bad" and then he deleted it but i saw it before it was deleted.... i asked him what is the meaning of that message as it was sent out of the blue 7-10 minutes after our conversation was finished... 14th all day he didn't reply saying "it's not a big deal, i ll tell you later" i waited till 11.30pm on 14th and then i rang his phone (via a chat service) he came online and started blaming me saying "what the hell did you do? now i have to face problems here. dont ring or text me" i said i wanted to know the meaning of that text. he said no i wont tell you. i said i am sick (i was ill, having fever and cough and feeling very unwell) i don't want to fight, please tell me. for my message saying "i am sick" he replied saying "i don't care" all the anger because i was asking questions and rang his phone without acting like the "always happy, no questions" woman he expects... the moment i did something which is a threat to his home life , he became angry... saying "i don't care" when i said i am sick hurt me real bad because i have been there for him when he was sick... then on 15th i called him and asked about that text. he said "trust me if you want to trust me, i am not going to prove things to you. i am tired of you asking questions, i have to think about myself first. i want to end this relationship. i don't want you anymore" here i was thinking why he is not divorcing her and marrying me and the answer is he is thinking about himself 1st. a divorce will be a very hard process and friends and family will think bad about him and he is only concerned about that...... he only wanted some "side fun" i guess.. just chatting and receiving all the love and attention... but he does not want to think about my happiness or do things for me.... he is the one who sent the text and failed to explain it but at the end he was talking like it's my fault... the moment he said he is finishing it, i cried. i am being completely honest here.... i was crying and saying how much i love him and please don't end over a matter like this....and he said he shall focus on himself and his family... i have no dignity left. after crying i felt ashamed... and from yesterday i have not contacted him... it hurts so much. it's only been more than a day.. i mourn for the 1000 dreams that died.... i was hoping that as time goes by, he would come closer to me like i was coming closer to him and he would feel "i love her i want to marry her" but it turned out that only i was ready to give him the status of "husband" and he was never ready to give me the status of "wife" i am hurting so much... i don't know what to do or where to turn to.. i am just so grateful that this forum is here.... at least i can vent here.... no family or friends knows about this so this is my private hell.... today i took the phone 100 times to ask "hi did you have lunch" etc like we do everyday... to tell him to go home safely.... to ask what he is doing.... but every time i stopped myself... i kept telling myself "he doesn't want me so don't go begging after him" Link to post Share on other sites
Author abandoned2018 Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 yes.... i knew he was married... i knew.... but i hoped that as we fell deeper in love he would want to leave her and marry me... was i so naive? people do get divorced all the time.... was i stupid in believing love will conquer all... Link to post Share on other sites
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