Perhaps better off single

[hotpotato]

l really think like so many here , you need to be a lot more choosy about who you even bother with, wait for that someone very special .

 

That's very kind of you.

 

Honestly, I think I'm too sensitive for dating. Paired with being dumped every time hasn't helped. I think I'd need cbt or meds or something.

 

I feel like the joy has been sucked out of dating.

[alphamale]

just pick a guy at random, date him for a month then dump him...

[Sweetfish]

wtf is intj?

 

 

Some INTJ are really covert narcissist or HSP "Highly Sensitive People"

 

Many times narcissist test as such because they unknowingly manipulate the answers to the questions on the test because they project them selves as something else.

 

 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201901/all-you-should-know-about-covert-narcissist

 

 

"You may be fooled by a covert narcissist, but they're every bit as much narcissists as the stereotypical extroverted narcissists. Some narcissists may emphasize one personality trait over others.

 

On the surface, they can be hard to identify. These narcissists may appear shy, humble, or anxious. Their gratification may be indirect through their emotional investment in someone they admire. They take things personally and feel distrustful, mistreated, unappreciated, and misunderstood. Although they devalue themselves, they dream of greatness and wonder why people don't appreciate and understand them."

 

 

 

The key for clinicians is to recognize the client's hypersensitive fixation around the presumed incessant attention from others.

The problem with employing traditional diagnostic criteria means the subtle and insidious narcissistic characteristics may go unnoticed. Too often this personality type is identified and treated as Social Anxiety Disorder (though similarities exist).

 

 

 

https://www.idrlabs.com/intj-and-the-narcissistic-personality-style.php

 

 

0.8% of women make up INTJs and is the rarest of all Myers-Briggs traits. I just don't believe the thread creator is INTJ and fits more in the NPD spectrum in my opinion. Introvert covert narcissist typically scores as a INTJ or INFJ on these online test.. because their is a key component that changes everything.

 

 

 

Sorry this is just my opinion and other INTJs or INFJs on the board can chime in if they wish.

 

 

Almost all your threads portray you as a victim and INTJs often do not do this. This fits more into narcissistic supply.

 

 

 

I digress

[hotpotato]

That's your opinion. There are boards full of intj acting like victims. So I disagree when you say that intj don't do that.

 

One can also argue that intjs have much in common with ambivalent attachment types.

 

Intjs definitely have faults. Many of us are somewhat villain-y. It'll say that in the profile as well that intj are often like villains or anti heroes. I give people school shooter vibes, even the ones who like me.

 

Imo intjs are highly sensitive and/or very introverted people who've had bad lives.

[hotpotato]

just pick a guy at random, date him for a month then dump him...

 

Lol To be fair, theres no guarantee a random guy would date me for a month. Sex, yes. Dating is a lot more complicated.

[chillii]

That's very kind of you.

 

Honestly, I think I'm too sensitive for dating. Paired with being dumped every time hasn't helped. I think I'd need cbt or meds or something.

 

I feel like the joy has been sucked out of dating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah can understand that , l dunno how people do it. lt's another reason though it'd just do you good to forget about it all and just live for awhile and while your doing that anyway , one day who knows who might just come along.

[5x5]

My wife has repeatedly tested as an INTJ. Yet she certainly isn't hyper sensitive or has had trouble dating. Nor does she dislike dating or romantic relationships.

 

She is extremely resilient and has been though an imminent potential near death experience with serious injuries, and many other challenging experiences. She is also very stoic, blunt, very efficient and not very effusive emotionally. She can appear cold and quiet to many, yet she is emotional it is just that she tends not to share that unless close with someone.

 

She certainly isn't the kind of woman who behaves like she is a victim in any way.

 

She doesn't care for cuddling, isn't charmed by flowers or soppy romantic gestures, doesn't like men who show weakness or are indecisive. Plus she doesn't like men who will do anything and everything for her at their expense and doesn't care for being worshiped or fawned over.

 

She is also introverted, loves her alone time and space so after dealing with people all day she likes to wind down reading in bed or going out on her own. That said we do spend plenty of time together, yet our marriage has been a lot like it was when we were dating. So we do not spend all of our time, hanging out.

 

She has never been dropped by any man, and despite not putting out way back when, she even had marriage proposals from men who would do anything for her.

 

Yet with the exception of me to date, she has always been the dumper. Likewise with the exception of me, she's never asked a guy out on a date before, always preferring to let men pursue her. She asked me out when another woman at work, who was interested in me was asking if I was available.

 

Then when she decided to start having sex very late, near the end of being 25. It didn't take her long to ask me out, then dump the other guy when we started having sex.

 

There is not much cuddling, no smooching, no great public displays of affection except for holding hands or hanging on my arm (although she does flash me her pink bits if no one else will see). Yet she is a sexual dynamo with a high sex drive, who does not like having the lead when it comes to sex. She will do virtually anything I ask or tell her to do (no matter how kinky) almost whenever I like. She is also highly skilled sexually, very enthusiastic, initiates sex and is good and game.

 

Although one thing which is unusual to me compared to other women I have been with. Once she has had sex, she is immediately ready to go about her day, read a book, go to sleep, talk to a friend, hang out with our kids or do whatever. She is loathe to stay intertwined and cuddled afterwards. Yet conversely she is happy to flirt, flash me, pose nude for drawing or photography, and pose having sex as well. While she is fine with being groped or bent over for me to have her.

 

She is also very loyal, yet when she is done with someone there is no going back. If people don't behave as friends and aren't loyal to her, she lets them go without hesitation.

 

She doesn't like small talk to no end at all, and excepting professional reasons tends to avoid it when she can. Yet she has lots of interests and will talk about that stuff with like minded people.

 

She has friends who talk about their partners, reveal secrets, yet she is quite guarded even with some of her closest friends. She knows the sex lives of her friends and they don't know anything about hers in person.

 

Yet I find her to be really easy to be with, there's no drama, she is easy company, isn't demanding and is fine with direct honesty. I found she has remained fun to be with throughout our time together. That said she is no-nonsense in many ways and pretty rational, and also a deep thinker. She isn't needy or clingy, and though she has high expectations for our children and has high standards she cares for them immensely.

 

She has various tertiary qualifications including a STEM degree is an effective manager, likes big picture stuff more than small picture. She's been good at getting grants, establishing cooperative programs with other government agencies and NGOs. She's managed contract negotiations, restructures, new infrastructure and technology projects and plenty more besides. When we started dating, she was even an active Feminist organiser. She doesn't care much for recognition or praise. Yet she does care to be competent, efficient and effective.

 

So that's my perspective on being with one INTJ woman and how she appears to me.

[5x5]

Honestly, I think I'm too sensitive for dating. Paired with being dumped every time hasn't helped.

 

Of the men that have dumped you, were they all that to you or were they disappointing in different ways?

 

If you're still up for it perhaps you might just let them go first, if they don't match your expectations.

[hotpotato]

Of the men that have dumped you, were they all that to you or were they disappointing in different ways?

 

If you're still up for it perhaps you might just let them go first, if they don't match your expectations.

 

They were what I was looking for although there were issues.

 

I'd rather stay and work things out. Thats,what I do with everything else in life. It doesn't really work in dating though. When a man has an issue, he just goes to another woman. Honestly, I'm done with the sausage labyrinth that comes with being single and dating.

[hotpotato]

My wife has repeatedly tested as an INTJ. Yet she certainly isn't hyper sensitive or has had trouble dating. Nor does she dislike dating or romantic relationships.

 

She is extremely resilient and has been though an imminent potential near death experience with serious injuries, and many other challenging experiences. She is also very stoic, blunt, very efficient and not very effusive emotionally. She can appear cold and quiet to many, yet she is emotional it is just that she tends not to share that unless close with someone.

 

She certainly isn't the kind of woman who behaves like she is a victim in any way.

 

She doesn't care for cuddling, isn't charmed by flowers or soppy romantic gestures, doesn't like men who show weakness or are indecisive. Plus she doesn't like men who will do anything and everything for her at their expense and doesn't care for being worshiped or fawned over.

 

She is also introverted, loves her alone time and space so after dealing with people all day she likes to wind down reading in bed or going out on her own. That said we do spend plenty of time together, yet our marriage has been a lot like it was when we were dating. So we do not spend all of our time, hanging out.

 

She has never been dropped by any man, and despite not putting out way back when, she even had marriage proposals from men who would do anything for her.

 

Yet with the exception of me to date, she has always been the dumper. Likewise with the exception of me, she's never asked a guy out on a date before, always preferring to let men pursue her. She asked me out when another woman at work, who was interested in me was asking if I was available.

 

Then when she decided to start having sex very late, near the end of being 25. It didn't take her long to ask me out, then dump the other guy when we started having sex.

 

There is not much cuddling, no smooching, no great public displays of affection except for holding hands or hanging on my arm (although she does flash me her pink bits if no one else will see). Yet she is a sexual dynamo with a high sex drive, who does not like having the lead when it comes to sex. She will do virtually anything I ask or tell her to do (no matter how kinky) almost whenever I like. She is also highly skilled sexually, very enthusiastic, initiates sex and is good and game.

 

Although one thing which is unusual to me compared to other women I have been with. Once she has had sex, she is immediately ready to go about her day, read a book, go to sleep, talk to a friend, hang out with our kids or do whatever. She is loathe to stay intertwined and cuddled afterwards. Yet conversely she is happy to flirt, flash me, pose nude for drawing or photography, and pose having sex as well. While she is fine with being groped or bent over for me to have her.

 

She is also very loyal, yet when she is done with someone there is no going back. If people don't behave as friends and aren't loyal to her, she lets them go without hesitation.

 

She doesn't like small talk to no end at all, and excepting professional reasons tends to avoid it when she can. Yet she has lots of interests and will talk about that stuff with like minded people.

 

She has friends who talk about their partners, reveal secrets, yet she is quite guarded even with some of her closest friends. She knows the sex lives of her friends and they don't know anything about hers in person.

 

Yet I find her to be really easy to be with, there's no drama, she is easy company, isn't demanding and is fine with direct honesty. I found she has remained fun to be with throughout our time together. That said she is no-nonsense in many ways and pretty rational, and also a deep thinker. She isn't needy or clingy, and though she has high expectations for our children and has high standards she cares for them immensely.

 

She has various tertiary qualifications including a STEM degree is an effective manager, likes big picture stuff more than small picture. She's been good at getting grants, establishing cooperative programs with other government agencies and NGOs. She's managed contract negotiations, restructures, new infrastructure and technology projects and plenty more besides. When we started dating, she was even an active Feminist organiser. She doesn't care much for recognition or praise. Yet she does care to be competent, efficient and effective.

 

So that's my perspective on being with one INTJ woman and how she appears to me.

 

Well, lucky her. I've never had men falling over themselves to marry me. Obviously, your wife and I are having very different dating experiences.

[TheFinalWord]

I think most people, men and women, who are still single by age 35, begin to accept the fact that they will likely never be married nor have a family. Usually ages 30-35, the epiphany stage, people make a mad dash to date and find a partner. Usually, this is self-destructive because one can come off as needy and desperate. And, in truth, the person kind of is...you might settle and then end up miserable.

 

This isn't really anything a person that married and had kids in their 20s can understand, so there's no point in trying to argue with them about it. Their biological imperative was satisfied and so they can't understand why someone that never had "that itch scratched" struggles so much. We have a biological drive to procreate and procure a mate. It kicks into over drive around 30 and takes about 5 years for our rational mind to catch up with our biology and come to terms with reality.

 

I do think acceptance of this reality is harder for women than men. Let's face it. Women's fertility has a short shelf life. A woman's capacity to attract a high quality mate starts (theoretically) at 18 and peaks around age 24. I'm not saying it's fair, but men's primary mating strategy is to secure the youngest most physically attractive woman possible (youth indicates strong fertility, more likely child will live during birth, and beauty indicates the child will have strong genetics).

 

What does this mean for women? Think of it this way...you, by chance, meet the perfect guy at 24 right at the end of your sexual market value (when you naturally look your best). You will probably want to date a year to get to know the person (you don't know off hand this is Mr. Right). Then a year to be engaged. Now you're 26. You probably need a year post-marriage to combine your lives. Then you probably want a year or two just to be married and enjoy life as a married couple. Let's say conservatively, you're now 28. You try to become pregnant, and assuming no issues there, have a healthy baby by 29 or 30. Another child? Now you're 32. Sure, you can wait longer, but how difficult is it going to be to get back into the work force and still be hyper competitive after age 32? Sure, you can work retail for $10/hour. But a 6-figure career? Having kids past 35 would make that difficult.

 

Consider that scenario, then consider, most women don't meet Mr. Right that young. Combined with the fact they are getting multiple degrees and coming out with massive debt. Most women don't even consider dating for marriage until age 30 these days. Then everything has to line up perfectly in terms of finding someone. That year of getting to know someone I talked about above? That is assuming the man is local. To sustain a LDR and build it to the point of marriage, you probably need more than 1 year and then someone has to move and essentially start over. Do you really want to do that age 35+?

 

For women, not only socially are the odds against you, but after age 35, fertility declines and the risks for infant mortality, down's syndrome, etc. escalate quickly.

 

What pregnancy complications are more likely for women 35 and older?

 

For men, those same issues exist, except our sexual market value peaks around age 35. Why? Women have two sexual strategies. Whereas men have one (youth and beauty), women have two: youth and beauty (masculine features like height, strong jaw, muscularity indicate a burst of testosterone during gestation) AND hyergamy (how good of a provider will this mate be? Will he be able to provide for me and my child and protect me when I'm pregnant?). This doesn't mean women consciously ask themselves these questions. It's built into our biology based on millions of years of evolution.

 

Men peak around 35 because at that time they can attract a women due to hypergamy. At this age men have an established career, own a home, and have some social status (assuming they didn't squander our 20s). That aside, for men, do you really want to begin having children after age 40? Each person has to decide, but it's not ideal IMHO. I know sperm quality decreases, but it's not nearly the same risk as the woman who has to carry the child. The problem for men that focus on their career in their 20s and and start looking to settle down at age 30. They have no real dating experience. So that 1 year time frame to determine if you are dealing with a marriage prospect during the dating process? 1 year is being generous to say the least.

 

With that said, there are a lot of cultural changes that have made this new reality of dating what it is today. But that's another rant.

 

Better off single? Probably not. Learn to accept that you will be single and thus find other passions in life to satisfy you? More likely.

Edited May 28, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[heartbrokenlady]

I'm so over dating. Not that I've dated much, but I have been in 3 LTR. No more.

 

My ex said that he was so broken after his 2 marriages that he'd never give his all in a relationship again, but that he'd continue having less attached relationships. I can't NOT give my all in a relationship but as I don't want to do that again, am just not getting in another one.

 

I'm a little sad about it but not heartbroken (despite the name!). That deep attachment to someone is wonderful but on the other hand, takes so much energy. And if it isn't right, isn't worth it.

[Sweetfish]

My wife has repeatedly tested as an INTJ. Yet she certainly isn't hyper sensitive or has had trouble dating. Nor does she dislike dating or romantic relationships.

 

She is extremely resilient and has been though an imminent potential near death experience with serious injuries, and many other challenging experiences. She is also very stoic, blunt, very efficient and not very effusive emotionally. She can appear cold and quiet to many, yet she is emotional it is just that she tends not to share that unless close with someone.

 

She certainly isn't the kind of woman who behaves like she is a victim in any way.

 

She doesn't care for cuddling, isn't charmed by flowers or soppy romantic gestures, doesn't like men who show weakness or are indecisive. Plus she doesn't like men who will do anything and everything for her at their expense and doesn't care for being worshiped or fawned over.

 

She is also introverted, loves her alone time and space so after dealing with people all day she likes to wind down reading in bed or going out on her own. That said we do spend plenty of time together, yet our marriage has been a lot like it was when we were dating. So we do not spend all of our time, hanging out.

 

She has never been dropped by any man, and despite not putting out way back when, she even had marriage proposals from men who would do anything for her.

 

Yet with the exception of me to date, she has always been the dumper. Likewise with the exception of me, she's never asked a guy out on a date before, always preferring to let men pursue her. She asked me out when another woman at work, who was interested in me was asking if I was available.

 

Then when she decided to start having sex very late, near the end of being 25. It didn't take her long to ask me out, then dump the other guy when we started having sex.

 

There is not much cuddling, no smooching, no great public displays of affection except for holding hands or hanging on my arm (although she does flash me her pink bits if no one else will see). Yet she is a sexual dynamo with a high sex drive, who does not like having the lead when it comes to sex. She will do virtually anything I ask or tell her to do (no matter how kinky) almost whenever I like. She is also highly skilled sexually, very enthusiastic, initiates sex and is good and game.

 

Although one thing which is unusual to me compared to other women I have been with. Once she has had sex, she is immediately ready to go about her day, read a book, go to sleep, talk to a friend, hang out with our kids or do whatever. She is loathe to stay intertwined and cuddled afterwards. Yet conversely she is happy to flirt, flash me, pose nude for drawing or photography, and pose having sex as well. While she is fine with being groped or bent over for me to have her.

 

She is also very loyal, yet when she is done with someone there is no going back. If people don't behave as friends and aren't loyal to her, she lets them go without hesitation.

 

She doesn't like small talk to no end at all, and excepting professional reasons tends to avoid it when she can. Yet she has lots of interests and will talk about that stuff with like minded people.

 

She has friends who talk about their partners, reveal secrets, yet she is quite guarded even with some of her closest friends. She knows the sex lives of her friends and they don't know anything about hers in person.

 

Yet I find her to be really easy to be with, there's no drama, she is easy company, isn't demanding and is fine with direct honesty. I found she has remained fun to be with throughout our time together. That said she is no-nonsense in many ways and pretty rational, and also a deep thinker. She isn't needy or clingy, and though she has high expectations for our children and has high standards she cares for them immensely.

 

She has various tertiary qualifications including a STEM degree is an effective manager, likes big picture stuff more than small picture. She's been good at getting grants, establishing cooperative programs with other government agencies and NGOs. She's managed contract negotiations, restructures, new infrastructure and technology projects and plenty more besides. When we started dating, she was even an active Feminist organiser. She doesn't care much for recognition or praise. Yet she does care to be competent, efficient and effective.

 

So that's my perspective on being with one INTJ woman and how she appears to me.

 

 

 

 

Your wife is an INTJ with out a doubt.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Sweetfish

[Sweetfish]

 

Men peak around 35 because at that time they can attract a women due to hypergamy. At this age men have an established career, own a home, and have some social status (assuming they didn't squander our 20s). That aside, for men, do you really want to begin having children after age 40? Each person has to decide, but it's not ideal IMHO. I know sperm quality decreases, but it's not nearly the same risk as the woman who has to carry the child. The problem for men that focus on their career in their 20s and and start looking to settle down at age 30. They have no real dating experience. So that 1 year time frame to determine if you are dealing with a marriage prospect during the dating process? 1 year is being generous to say the least.

 

With that said, there are a lot of cultural changes that have made this new reality of dating what it is today. But that's another rant.

 

Better off single? Probably not. Learn to accept that you will be single and thus find other passions in life to satisfy you? More likely.

 

 

All these girls made a thread about dating after 30 and refused to believe exactly what you are saying. They think the market is great for them when they are 30 to 40. Its wasn't till "Friends" and "Sex in the city" that women think they own the dating market until they are 60. I get it, its an abundance mindset.

 

 

 

Men do not peak at 35 they start around 35 and this is one they are useful to many women because as you said it pretty much fits their dating strategy. At this age men are often making decent money, have a home, and figured out their version of what the world is and women at this age still single are tired of getting "their hearts broken"

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe that a female has a hard time finding a men. Its usually the female is dating men out of her league or she is riddle with anxiety and detonated the relationship to protect her emotions. I know women in China who can't find a man...until he is a foreigner and China is grossly over populated with men. Hypergamy

[heartbrokenlady]

. China is grossly over populated with men. Hypergamy

 

 

China is only over populated with working class, uneducated men. For an educated Chinese woman over 28, it is virtually impossible to find a husband. The only men left are the dregs, or foreigners. And the majority of Chinese women don't want to marry outside their culture.

 

I have several very successful Chinese friends in exactly this position. One married a guy way below her in looks, education and personality, only to find out he's infertile. And she really only married because she was desperate for children. And with divorced women as social pariahs, that is her chance of a family gone.

[hotpotato]

Also, having issues with dating is trademark intj. In fact, it's often part of the description. People are individuals, too. Not everyone will be the same. Intjs get similar scores on a test, but intjs are not clones.

 

I guess someone isn't going to complain about their dating situation if they have suitors throwing rings at them. I mostly have D thrown at me.

@sweetfishThere is a huge difference between finding a man and finding a suitor. I've met a mix of men as far as leagues. In fact, I've tried to date many men well below me. I probably could find a boyfriend if I rejoined the D labyrinth, but I'm done with that. Most men want the sex upfront, but I'm not attracted to most men in a monkey sex kind of way. I'm not going to twist a man's arm and force him to get to know me. I seem to have a,lot of quirks.

 

From what I've seen in docs about single Asian women, many single women are career oriented and pretty. They don't want to date well below their social status. Single female producer doesn't want to date socially awkward recluse who makes little money and still lives with mom.

 

@brokenhearted This does take a lot of mental and emotional energy. Since I quit dating, I've had an explosion of creativity. In a strange way, getting dumped that last time did me quite well.

[Garcon1986]

5x5 what did you have to do differently to land the superb wife you have now compared to your old relationships?

[Mysterio]

For me, it's more obstacles than a broken heart. This is how I am looking at myself.

 

Single/Childless. Just a cat to take care of. I live down the street from work. I have lots of Friends. I have a great relationship with my Brother/Parents.

I go to see a lot of bands. See Movies and can talk on almost anything. I am not a goofball or am Mr. Serrious all the time. I think I am balanced. I practice Buddhist Chanting. I work out. Dress in modern fashion and groom myself. I am well mannered. I only swear if I am agitated. I am not perfect. The only real dark side to my life is my lack of love life. I don't understand why coupling up for me is hard. On the one hand. I don't have major drama in my life. The other side of the coin. I don't really know what its really like to have Love/romance/Sex on a regular basis.

 

I do not see myself as single for the rest of my life. If I keep making a major effort all the time. I may be more frustrated. I don't think that my great love in my life will come from my effort in terms of going up to a woman. Getting to know her and trying to explore a LTR if I am the driving force behind it. It seems it works out if the woman wants me and comes towards me that works better.

 

In other words. I guess Women are the choosers. When I think of all my male friends. Except for one. The women were more the driving force. Thats what I keep seeing. Am I wrong about that. I also see if the woman is not happy in the relationship. It's over. If a man is not happy. He can live with it for a longer time. I know only two men in my life that left their unhappy marriage.

 

So to the men that want a Romantic relationship. Self-Improve your life outside of having a romantic relationship with a woman, and then let them come to you for the most part.

[5x5]

@Garcon1986, nothing different. I talked to her, some women like it when I talk to them.

 

There's no tricks to it, as always I was simply being myself. So man meets woman, they both find the other aesthetically pleasing, they enjoy some banter, some sexual tension also follows. Then They go out, have fun and shortly after they're having sex.

 

As to old relationships, I have been with other wonderful women. My wife hasn't been the only one.

 

@hotpotato if you're not attracted to most men in a monkey sex kind of way, then don't have sex with most of them. Which is how I have always been with women.

 

That said I had sex with my ex-wife, within a couple of hours of meeting her. Whereas with my wife, it was on the third date.

 

For some of us, we're okay with having sex early with people we're attracted to, and end up having great relationships doing exactly that.

[TheFinalWord]

I'm a little sad about it but not heartbroken (despite the name!). That deep attachment to someone is wonderful but on the other hand, takes so much energy. And if it isn't right, isn't worth it.

 

What you are experiencing is called red pill rage. This is a concept in the man-o-sphere which describes the truth about love, sex, and relationships. The concepts comes from the matrix, where Neo is presented with the blue pill and the red pill. Men grow up with blue pill conditioning, i.e. the matrix. It's programmed into us from our childhood and it's not usually until we experience significant heart break that we take the red pill. Taking the red pill tracks with the 5 stages of grief. Here is a video if you want to learn more...

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[hotpotato]

@Garcon1986, nothing different. I talked to her, some women like it when I talk to them.

 

There's no tricks to it, as always I was simply being myself. So man meets woman, they both find the other aesthetically pleasing, they enjoy some banter, some sexual tension also follows. Then They go out, have fun and shortly after they're having sex.

 

As to old relationships, I have been with other wonderful women. My wife hasn't been the only one.

 

@hotpotato if you're not attracted to most men in a monkey sex kind of way, then don't have sex with most of them. Which is how I have always been with women.

 

That said I had sex with my ex-wife, within a couple of hours of meeting her. Whereas with my wife, it was on the third date.

 

For some of us, we're okay with having sex early with people we're attracted to, and end up having great relationships doing exactly that.

 

Actually, I had sex on the first date with my last ex.

 

At this point, I wouldn't bother trying to go on a date with a man I don't immediately want to have sex with. I wouldn't mind dating a man I'm not super attracted to, but they almost always force my hand by trying to have sex asap.

 

I could go up to guys and ask them out, but I don't want to. Most of them have girlfriends. I'd almost have to go back to online dating or be a side chic. I don't find joy in meeting men. I dony enjoy relationships anymore.

[5x5]

I don't think you should settle for people you're not attracted to hotpotato.

[littleblackheart]

Worry not, @hotpotato

 

Women are happier without children or a spouse, says happiness expert

 

From the article:

 

We may have suspected it already, but now the science backs it up: unmarried and childless women are the happiest subgroup in the population. And they are more likely to live longer than their married and child-rearing peers, according to a leading expert in happiness.

 

Speaking at the Hay festival on Saturday, Paul Dolan, a professor of behavioural science at the London School of Economics, said the latest evidence showed that the traditional markers used to measure success did not correlate with happiness – particularly marriage and raising children.

 

“Married people are happier than other population subgroups, but only when their spouse is in the room when they’re asked how happy they are. When the spouse is not present: ****ing miserable,” he said.

 

I wish there were more single and childless role models when I was younger that were not surrounded by negative connotations (the crazy cat lady, the virgin ice queen, the bird with the broken wing, the frigid spinster, the emotional wreck who can't settle, the nymphomaniac, etc).

 

The only guy I had a long term relationship with had me with lies and deceit (probably the only way I would have gotten into a relationship in the first place). I don't regret having my children (they are my true happy ending) but have zero intentions of ever getting into a relationship again.

 

I don't know how true the article is since I'm surrounded by generally well matched, happily coupled friends, but it's good to see social perceptions are changing away from the 'life is better as part of a couple' social conditioning we have been fed for centuries.

 

We are finally accepting the fact that you can be happy and whole and single all at the same time.

[Gretchen12]

I'm so over dating. Not that I've dated much, but I have been in 3 LTR. No more.

 

I can't NOT give my all in a relationship but as I don't want to do that again, am just not getting in another one.

 

I'm a little sad about it but not heartbroken (despite the name!). That deep attachment to someone is wonderful but on the other hand, takes so much energy. And if it isn't right, isn't worth it.

 

Maybe the way you are going about it is simply unwise. There is wisdom in balance and moderation. To blindly "give your ALL" to the great Romantic Ideal is foolishness. You are not taking good care of your partner/child/parents/pets if you do not also take care of yourself.

 

As some people get older, they get a bit more zen about the whole thing. It doesn't mean the love is any less deep.

[hotpotato]

I think most people, men and women, who are still single by age 35, begin to accept the fact that they will likely never be married nor have a family. Usually ages 30-35, the epiphany stage, people make a mad dash to date and find a partner. Usually, this is self-destructive because one can come off as needy and desperate. And, in truth, the person kind of is...you might settle and then end up miserable.

 

This isn't really anything a person that married and had kids in their 20s can understand, so there's no point in trying to argue with them about it. Their biological imperative was satisfied and so they can't understand why someone that never had "that itch scratched" struggles so much. We have a biological drive to procreate and procure a mate. It kicks into over drive around 30 and takes about 5 years for our rational mind to catch up with our biology and come to terms with reality.

 

I do think acceptance of this reality is harder for women than men. Let's face it. Women's fertility has a short shelf life. A woman's capacity to attract a high quality mate starts (theoretically) at 18 and peaks around age 24. I'm not saying it's fair, but men's primary mating strategy is to secure the youngest most physically attractive woman possible (youth indicates strong fertility, more likely child will live during birth, and beauty indicates the child will have strong genetics).

 

What does this mean for women? Think of it this way...you, by chance, meet the perfect guy at 24 right at the end of your sexual market value (when you naturally look your best). You will probably want to date a year to get to know the person (you don't know off hand this is Mr. Right). Then a year to be engaged. Now you're 26. You probably need a year post-marriage to combine your lives. Then you probably want a year or two just to be married and enjoy life as a married couple. Let's say conservatively, you're now 28. You try to become pregnant, and assuming no issues there, have a healthy baby by 29 or 30. Another child? Now you're 32. Sure, you can wait longer, but how difficult is it going to be to get back into the work force and still be hyper competitive after age 32? Sure, you can work retail for $10/hour. But a 6-figure career? Having kids past 35 would make that difficult.

 

Consider that scenario, then consider, most women don't meet Mr. Right that young. Combined with the fact they are getting multiple degrees and coming out with massive debt. Most women don't even consider dating for marriage until age 30 these days. Then everything has to line up perfectly in terms of finding someone. That year of getting to know someone I talked about above? That is assuming the man is local. To sustain a LDR and build it to the point of marriage, you probably need more than 1 year and then someone has to move and essentially start over. Do you really want to do that age 35+?

 

For women, not only socially are the odds against you, but after age 35, fertility declines and the risks for infant mortality, down's syndrome, etc. escalate quickly.

 

What pregnancy complications are more likely for women 35 and older?

 

For men, those same issues exist, except our sexual market value peaks around age 35. Why? Women have two sexual strategies. Whereas men have one (youth and beauty), women have two: youth and beauty (masculine features like height, strong jaw, muscularity indicate a burst of testosterone during gestation) AND hyergamy (how good of a provider will this mate be? Will he be able to provide for me and my child and protect me when I'm pregnant?). This doesn't mean women consciously ask themselves these questions. It's built into our biology based on millions of years of evolution.

 

Men peak around 35 because at that time they can attract a women due to hypergamy. At this age men have an established career, own a home, and have some social status (assuming they didn't squander our 20s). That aside, for men, do you really want to begin having children after age 40? Each person has to decide, but it's not ideal IMHO. I know sperm quality decreases, but it's not nearly the same risk as the woman who has to carry the child. The problem for men that focus on their career in their 20s and and start looking to settle down at age 30. They have no real dating experience. So that 1 year time frame to determine if you are dealing with a marriage prospect during the dating process? 1 year is being generous to say the least.

 

With that said, there are a lot of cultural changes that have made this new reality of dating what it is today. But that's another rant.

 

Better off single? Probably not. Learn to accept that you will be single and thus find other passions in life to satisfy you? More likely.

I think for me it's the opposite. My mind is turned off but my body won't catch up.

 

I've had an explosion of creativity. Frankly, I'm in much better shape than many of the women who've gotten married and had kids. Many of the women I know married someone from high school.

 

Sometimes I feel like the last breakup was a much needed kick in the rear. I can see how negatively breakups affect me, and I'm making other plans for my life. I don't think I have to be single. I think I could get a bf if I tried.