In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Amethyst68]

Just wanted to say I agree with the previous poster. If the wife has serious mental health issues then why is he leaving their child so often?

[finna]

I am extremely anxious about being around his family. I imagine it will be extremely difficult. He has brought them twice during our time together - both times were planned and tickets bought, etc, long before we got involved.

 

I also have major concerns about “breaking up a family” and as I have stated do not want him to leave “for me”. However, having been in a toxic marriage myself, I know things can actually get much better for everyone - including the kids - if a divorce is handled correctly... my ex and I are better friends and Co parents now then we were for most of our marriage.

 

 

 

"He brings his family with him when he can". Really? So how many times has he done this since your affair began? Without his wife 'forcing' him to?

 

No matter how you try to work any mental gymnastics, 16hr work days do not allow for quality involvement in family life. I have every respect for people who work those hours to ensure their family's survival and none for those who do it to avoid their family and their problems.

 

You have no idea of what goes on within his family and home, only what he has told you to support your ongoing affair. I don't know what you want to hear, I think your happy to stay the OW. You obviously don't care about breaking up a family, don't seem to have any guilt or feel the slightest bit anxious about seeing your AP's wife and son, maybe even socialising with them.

[pepperbird]

Neither he nor I disparage his wife and I know that he contributes to the issues - they are toxic towards each other and have been for a very long time and mc and ic has had limited success. It is not my story to tell but suffice to say she has a lifelong history of serious issues that are not her fault but do contribute towards the toxic behavior. I am not excusing any of his behavior either... just framing the situation as sometimes very miserable for both of them.

 

 

You don't disparage his wife?

 

What do you think you've been doing here? You've painted her as this unstable, manipulative person.

 

 

 

She's so awful, yet he chooses to travel the world for work, have an ow on the side all while leaving his son in the care of this unstable woman?

 

 

How does that even make any sense to you?

 

 

 

He's out planning trips to the beach with you, etc.while his wife stays at home doing all the grunt work. Of course, he could find a job that left him on the same continent as his child, and that doesn't mean he has to continue his marriage...yet he still chooses to be away from his home and child because that's not his priority.

 

Reverse the situation. If you thought for one minute that your ex was unstable, would you feel comfortable traveling the world and being away from you children, leaving them in her care while you're away?

[pepperbird]

Just wanted to say I agree with the previous poster. If the wife has serious mental health issues then why is he leaving their child so often?

 

 

It's either one of three things:

 

 

(a) the mm is full of it

 

 

(b) he's so selfish that his desire to travel for work, have an affair and enjoy all that freedom trumps his child. If he can't even put his own flesh and blood child first, what chance does an ow or even his spouse even have?

 

 

© the mm is full of it

[finna]

Just wanted to say I agree with the previous poster. If the wife has serious mental health issues then why is he leaving their child so often?

 

The child attends school during the day and local grandparents provide a lot of support when needed. She is a good mom to their kiddo - that isn’t in question.

[BaileyB]

I am extremely anxious about being around his family. I imagine it will be extremely difficult. He has brought them twice during our time together - both times were planned and tickets bought, etc, long before we got involved.

 

I also have major concerns about “breaking up a family” and as I have stated do not want him to leave “for me”.

 

I can’t imagine being around this man and his family in the event that this affair ends. If you are able to continue working with this man, you are a stronger person than me...

 

As to your major concerns about breaking up the family, that is exactly what you are hoping and praying will happen. Sure, you can package it nicely by saying that they are incompatible, his wife is a manipulative woman, he will make the decision for himself, etc... Those are the “mental gymnastics” that OW engage in to make this situation more acceptable to all (including themselves). It doesn’t change the fact that you will welcome him into your bed the night he leaves his wife and happily go about putting the plans you have made together into place.

 

Say what you will, I’m sure she is far from perfect but I have much respect for the woman who manages his home and raises his child while her husband travels the world and works 18 hours a day. That must be a lonely thing for her, and I don’t know that she deserves to have her husband playing house with another woman while he is away on business...

[finna]

She is a good mother - that is not in question. Yes, I’ve given details about behavior that I have witnessed that illustrates the toxic nature of the relationship between her and MM- she is manipulative and creates a crisis every time she wants attention. He enables the behavior and thus reinforces- it’s not healthy by or for either of them.

 

Yes- he loves his job and prioritizes it for various reasons... when he is traveling he drops everything to make sure he video chats with his son for a pre-arranged time twice a day, and when he is home he spends several hours a day with him as well as full weekends. His son adores him.

 

Cheating he is guilty of - being a neglectful parent he is not.

 

 

 

He's out planning trips to the beach with you, etc.while his wife stays at home doing all the grunt work. Of course, he could find a job that left him on the same continent as his child, and that doesn't mean he has to continue his marriage...yet he still chooses to be away from his home and child because that's not his priority.

 

Reverse the situation. If you thought for one minute that your ex was unstable, would you feel comfortable traveling the world and being away from you children, leaving them in her care while you're away?

Edited June 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[BaileyB]

The child attends school during the day and local grandparents provide a lot of support when needed. She is a good mom to their kiddo - that isn’t in question.

 

She is just manipulative toward your MM. but again, maybe she has good reason to be... perhaps, she is aware of other women that you are not. Perhaps, she wants her husband home more to spend time with her and raise their son. How is it possible that you can have a strong relationship and not go a little bit crazy if your husband travels/works as much as he does... You just don’t know, because you are not in her shoes. Does she work? Maybe she wanted to pursue her career and has turned down opportunities for herself because someone needs to be home with their son. Perhaps, she has some resentment? You just don’t know...

 

Perhaps, you get with this man and you see what has been so difficult for her to deal with - this man is a distant, workaholic partner who is conflict avoidant, doesn’t communicate well, and avoids dealing with the issues in the marriage? You just don’t know...

[BaileyB]

She is manipulative and creates a crisis every time she wants attention.

 

Maybe that’s because her husband is distant and not attentive. Perhaps, he is otherwise engaged with work and his “work wife” when she and her child need his attention... her methods are perhaps not the best, but maybe she has tried for years to deal with the situation and she doesn’t know what to do anymore. Have you considered that the problem may not actually lay with her.

Edited June 3, 2019 by BaileyB

[finna]

That’s what makes this challenging, doesn’t it? That MM and I chose to engage in an affair with the knowledge that both of our marriages were unraveling. That I went home and ended mine and he needed to wait six months to end his. That we developed extremely strong feelings for each other that made him decide he wanted to be with me. That he has seemingly changed his mind. Yet all the feelings are still there, and nearly all the bad issues and good reasons that brought us together in the first place still exist.

 

As far as his wife is concerned - she doesn’t deserve any of it. I would much rather he make a clean break and he knows that but felt he needed to do it this way for their best interests (financial etc that I’ve mentioned before). It may be a moot point now if he truly decides to focus on his family.

 

I would be lying if I said that I didn’t want him - I do - the paradigm shift has been too recent for me not to still love and be in love with this guy. It’s messy and ultimately I hope we get it sorted out so that everyone finds happiness - whatever that might look like.

 

 

I can’t imagine being around this man and his family in the event that this affair ends. If you are able to continue working with this man, you are a stronger person than me...

 

As to your major concerns about breaking up the family, that is exactly what you are hoping and praying will happen. Sure, you can package it nicely by saying that they are incompatible, his wife is a manipulative woman, he will make the decision for himself, etc... Those are the “mental gymnastics” that OW engage in to make this situation more acceptable to all (including themselves). It doesn’t change the fact that you will welcome him into your bed the night he leaves his wife and happily go about putting the plans you have made together into place.

 

Say what you will, I’m sure she is far from perfect but I have much respect for the woman who manages his home and raises his child while her husband travels the world and works 18 hours a day. That must be a lonely thing for her, and I don’t know that she deserves to have her husband playing house with another woman while he is away on business...

[finna]

Maybe that’s because her husband is distant and not attentive. Perhaps, he is otherwise engaged with work and his “work wife” when she and her child need his attention... her methods are perhaps not the best, but maybe she has tried for years to deal with the situation and she doesn’t know what to do anymore. Have you considered that the problem may not actually lay with her.

 

Absolutely - he is not innocent and by no means perfect. I recognize those weaknesses and can only say that he and I have been able to manage some of those issues in a different way. For example, I will straight up tell him it’s time to be done working and he will comply and go do something fun 90% of the time. I will plan fun things to do based on our common interests that he will prioritize over work (once the “normal” workday is over). We also have always been good at communicating so have been understanding with each other since the beginning. I tell him that him setting aside time for us and our friends is a huge deposit for me. I encourage him to go spend time with his son, and he does.

[Timshel]

Well, up until three weeks ago we had many plans in place for he and I to do activities with our sons together... a whole bucket list of big and small things to do with the kids.

 

In my opinion this is crossing one line too many. You are a mother OP, to do this to a bs/mom is about as self serving and callous as an ow can get.

[elaine567]

He has/had it made here, he will not want to change a thing if he can help it.

He is/was in clover.

 

Lovely wife at home doing the single mother bit to bring up his child, whilst he gets to play the doting wonderful father who swoops in every now and again...

 

Sexy coworker who loves him, is always there to kiss him all better, who understands his workaholic ways and who he can jet set all around the world with.

 

He had the best of both worlds.

Now, the "mistress" wants "more".

"Oh dear, not so good... That could spoil everything..."

 

I am of the opinion men like this want two women. They do not really want one who ticks all the boxes. They want one at home and one outwith the home.

[finna]

Out of curiosity, what do you think it is that doesn’t add up about the situation. What do you think I am missing?

 

Btw, if his wife is as unstable and manipulative as you would like us ( and yourself too) to believe, then why, why, WHY is he away from home so much? Seems to me that something stinks about this situation and you are either seeing what you want to see or he's lying to you.

Edited June 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[finna]

In my opinion this is crossing one line too many. You are a mother OP, to do this to a bs/mom is about as self serving and callous as an ow can get.

 

Can you tell me more about why you think that? There are many kinds of activities that MM enjoyed as a kid that BS has no interest in doing - camping, etc. Up until three weeks ago he was preparing to get divorced and proceed with us in a legitimate relationship and was looking forwards to doing all the things that he has not been able to do in his current situation.

[Amethyst68]

It's easy because it's not real. You were married you must know that in day to day life you can't just say stop and then go do something fun. In real life you've got your child, chores, bills, just day to day life. You're currently living in a fantasy. You know the weekends for most people aren't spent at the beach (unless they live next to it), or going adventures, visiting new hotels or restaurants, no it's humdrum grocery shopping, DIY, taking the kids to play dates etc. I think your career and all the travelling has given you a warped idea of what to expect in a relationship.

[Timshel]

At the time you were planning to play happy family with this woman's child, did she know about you?

You are making plans to be step mom to a child before his wife is even aware that her marriage has ended...a bit premature, don't you think?

 

So your idea was that he would go home, announce divorce and immediately include his son into your still adulterous affair.

Divorce is a lengthy process and she would still be reeling from only just being informed yet expected to be on board with her young child off with activities with you?

 

You are in love with a married man. Like it or not, his responsibilities will not be so quickly swept aside to suit your fantasies. You are not being at all realistic and quite frankly are showing a rather cold-hearted ambitiousness toward your own desires at the peril of children, no less.

 

I guess this type of magical thinking is common with OW.

[finna]

What’s the point of life if you often can’t go do something fun? We both live in areas where outdoor recreation is plentiful and it is typical to go on a hike or to the beach. We enjoy the “chores” part of things with each other just as much... there have been lots of grocery shopping trips or other errands, making dinner together, working on one of our cars, shopping for the kids, etc. it’s one of the things I am going to miss most if/when we are finished - we truly enjoy spending time together in almost any capacity.

 

 

 

It's easy because it's not real. You were married you must know that in day to day life you can't just say stop and then go do something fun. In real life you've got your child, chores, bills, just day to day life. You're currently living in a fantasy. You know the weekends for most people aren't spent at the beach (unless they live next to it), or going adventures, visiting new hotels or restaurants, no it's humdrum grocery shopping, DIY, taking the kids to play dates etc. I think your career and all the travelling has given you a warped idea of what to expect in a relationship.

[finna]

Where I live divorce often takes less than 30 days, start to finish. For the ex and I it took less than a week. No- we did not expect that everything would immediately gel and be smooth - far from it. But having a list of dreams to accomplish over the next few years did not seem particularly unrealistic.

 

 

At the time you were planning to play happy family with this woman's child, did she know about you?

You are making plans to be step mom to a child before his wife is even aware that her marriage has ended...a bit premature, don't you think?

 

So your idea was that he would go home, announce divorce and immediately include his son into your still adulterous affair.

Divorce is a lengthy process and she would still be reeling from only just being informed yet expected to be on board with her young child off with activities with you?

 

You are in love with a married man. Like it or not, his responsibilities will not be so quickly swept aside to suit your fantasies. You are not being at all realistic and quite frankly are showing a rather cold-hearted ambitiousness toward your own desires at the peril of children, no less.

 

I guess this type of magical thinking is common with OW.

[DKT3]

I believe that the reality of your situation is you started a exist affair and he got some sex on the side.

 

I have said this many times here, if your married man would have said, I'm married, our sexlife is great I love my wife and have absolutely no intention on changing my situation, would you still have had sex with him? Unlikely.

 

Unfortunately, as young we men learn to tell girls what they want to hear in order to get what we want.

 

You dont see it because you dont want to but that is the case here. Go back and read your posts, you are all over the place and constantly contradicting yourself. Example, in one reply you say I went home and ended my marriage within hours and expected him to do the same in a short period. In another you say I didn't expect him to end his marriage for me, nor do I want him to. In yet another you state, you put pressure on him to end his marriage.

 

This isnt a sudden shift, you have been fighting this battle the entire time, you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

[BaileyB]

Absolutely - he is not innocent and by no means perfect. I recognize those weaknesses and can only say that he and I have been able to manage some of those issues in a different way. I will plan fun things to do based on our common interests that he will prioritize over work (once the “normal” workday is over). We also have always been good at communicating so have been understanding with each other since the beginning.

 

With respect, you are still very much in the “honeymoon” phase of this relationship... even more so because you are traveling together - having adventures without many of the pressures and monotony of day to day life.

[Jhm42]

Absolutely - he is not innocent and by no means perfect. I recognize those weaknesses and can only say that he and I have been able to manage some of those issues in a different way. For example, I will straight up tell him it’s time to be done working and he will comply and go do something fun 90% of the time. I will plan fun things to do based on our common interests that he will prioritize over work (once the “normal” workday is over). We also have always been good at communicating so have been understanding with each other since the beginning. I tell him that him setting aside time for us and our friends is a huge deposit for me. I encourage him to go spend time with his son, and he does.

 

Do you not see that you’ve managed his issues in a different way than his wife in part because you’re asking for fundamentally different things? It sounds like what she’s trying to say to him, albeit badly, is that she needs him to make significant changes to his life in order to be around more. You’re asking him to go to the beach. As soon as you needed something deeper from him, you started thinking about how to manipulate the situation to make sure you didn’t mess it up. Something about him makes straightforward discussion about hard things difficult, and I don’t think you’re as immune to that dynamic with him as you’d like to believe.

 

What do you think he would say if you did wind up together and a few years down the line, you end up with a devastating illness? Let’s say you have cancer or, I don’t know, late onset of a mental illness like his wife’s. Suddenly you really need your partner to be around more. Do you think he’d give up his dream job and travels to be your caretaker, or even just to make the emotional side of it easier while he works a local 9-to-5? Would you be able to ask him to do that? How do you think the conversation would go? You know him. I don’t. But from what you’ve written, it sounds like you’re confusing niceness with kindness and people-pleasing with selflessness. It doesn’t sound like he knows how to make a real sacrifice because it’s the right thing to do.

[finna]

I can see where you would see a discrepancy- some of that likely has to do with the context of what I was responding to and in other cases with what I was most feeling as I wrote the post.

 

In the case of ending my marriage and him ending his:

-I did within hours

-I wished he would have then as true exit affair as it was for me (all the right reasons) but he soon gave me a six month timeline for his wife to finish vocational retraining and restart her career

-I never wanted him to end it “for me” but once he said he was going to for him we did start making a lot of plans

-A month ago when the travel restrictions hit I did put more pressure on him as far as a timeline was concerned - not the reasons for doing it

 

So in pieces that does look quite inconsistent - taken as a whole it’s the progression of what occurred...

 

 

I believe that the reality of your situation is you started a exist affair and he got some sex on the side.

 

I have said this many times here, if your married man would have said, I'm married, our sexlife is great I love my wife and have absolutely no intention on changing my situation, would you still have had sex with him? Unlikely.

 

Unfortunately, as young we men learn to tell girls what they want to hear in order to get what we want.

 

You dont see it because you dont want to but that is the case here. Go back and read your posts, you are all over the place and constantly contradicting yourself. Example, in one reply you say I went home and ended my marriage within hours and expected him to do the same in a short period. In another you say I didn't expect him to end his marriage for me, nor do I want him to. In yet another you state, you put pressure on him to end his marriage.

 

This isnt a sudden shift, you have been fighting this battle the entire time, you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

[finna]

Good questions all...

 

Getting manipulative was my mistake and I would certainly not do it that way again... it was based on fear and I don’t like to operate that way. Straightforward communication serves me far better and that is what I have used before and since.

 

Regarding the caretaker questions - one can never know with complete certainty but I am confident that if we were in a committed relationship he would take care of me in whatever way he needed to... he wouldn’t enjoy giving up his freedom and the care would not necessarily be him around 100/% of the time - but he would make sure I was taken care of and he would be around as much as he could - which potentially might be all the time... it’s just hard to say in that hypothetical because if I had any say in the matter I would tell him to still go unless things were really dire.

 

 

 

 

Do you not see that you’ve managed his issues in a different way than his wife in part because you’re asking for fundamentally different things? It sounds like what she’s trying to say to him, albeit badly, is that she needs him to make significant changes to his life in order to be around more. You’re asking him to go to the beach. As soon as you needed something deeper from him, you started thinking about how to manipulate the situation to make sure you didn’t mess it up. Something about him makes straightforward discussion about hard things difficult, and I don’t think you’re as immune to that dynamic with him as you’d like to believe.

 

What do you think he would say if you did wind up together and a few years down the line, you end up with a devastating illness? Let’s say you have cancer or, I don’t know, late onset of a mental illness like his wife’s. Suddenly you really need your partner to be around more. Do you think he’d give up his dream job and travels to be your caretaker, or even just to make the emotional side of it easier while he works a local 9-to-5? Would you be able to ask him to do that? How do you think the conversation would go? You know him. I don’t. But from what you’ve written, it sounds like you’re confusing niceness with kindness and people-pleasing with selflessness. It doesn’t sound like he knows how to make a real sacrifice because it’s the right thing to do.

[Amethyst68]

How can you work on one of your cars? You say you have to fly out to meet him and then you say the trips are in another country/continent to justify him not going home at weekends to visit his son. Your posts are full of inconsistencies, more of them appearing with each justification of both your behaviours.