In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[S2B]

I’m not sure that he will. He may completely cut things off in the next few days before we travel again. I’d say that’s probably 60/40 likely at this point but I’m no expert. Whether he would attempt to come back after that I think is dependent on his circumstances and level of guilt - and of course whatever boundaries I choose to set.

 

The only predictable things that get rid of most married men cheating are when the OW makes demands or if they are found out!

 

He will take the sex as long as he can get away with it.

 

You want to settle for being his secret? That’s what you’ve agreed to so far... is that ok with you moving forward.

 

Very few men decline sex... only extremely virtuous men say no.

[Turning point]

I also wouldn’t be surprised though if once she starts working, gains some confidence, and meets new people, as well as matures a little if she would move on from him. At that point I wonder if he would fight to keep her as much as he has in the past when she has threatened to leave. He has said at those times he has done everything he could to fix whatever she wanted as he was afraid of being alone. Now he knows that he has the potential for options (not even necessarily me, but just that other women might be interested) so not sure how all that would play out.

 

None of these things you speculate about are unknowns. Anyone on this site can tell you exactly how this story ends:

 

Chapter 1.) His wife already knows.

Chapter 2.) She'll first try to save her marriage, and it will be in vain. (We know this because her husband and you are each without sufficient empathy to make that possible.)

Chapter 3.) She prepares an exit plan, and collects evidence to her advantage.

Chapter 4.) She files for divorce, and wins a nice settlement.

Chapter 5.) MM dumps you and moves on to someone who is not tainted by this sh**show that ended his marriage. (If he has kids there is no place in his or their lives for the woman who wrecked their home.)

 

Your story sounds a lot like my ex. Work, travel, romance - and now that she's older her MM (plural) have all moved on to younger women to play with. She's had to change jobs 4 times, lost her marriage, a home, and probably any chance of not growing old alone.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[heartwhole2]

She suspects something is going on though and her response has been to work even harder to keep him around.

 

I find this very sad.

 

During my husband's affair he was cold and mean, which was out of character. When I noticed something particular, like how he didn't sit next to me and snuggle like he usually did at our best friends' house, I mentioned it and he did it the next time.

 

There was just a long list of really awful stuff. He brought me home from a colonoscopy and left me unconscious with no one to care for me, acting like I was an inconvenience. When I said I wanted to take a big trip for our 10th anniversary, he said he wanted to take a solo trip to OW's country. (I had no idea about OW; we have mutual friends there.)

 

He also started drinking too much after work and being unable to sleep. He said he was stressed out about work. I really did not know. It never entered my brain that he would have an affair. Are we supposed to get married to our best friends and then check every day to make sure they're not cheating on us? We were each other's first and only partners. I could have seen him having an EA but a PA? No way.

 

So I remember thinking, "Wow, I'm married to a real douche right now." And I so badly wanted to say, "Fine! Then I'll take a trip without you!" when he rejected me with the "I want to go to OW's country thing." But then I thought, no Heartwhole, you treat him how you want to be treated. You give him the benefit of the doubt. You keep reaching out, you keep initiating that virtuous cycle.

 

So I planned that anniversary trip. I remember him muttering something like, "Well, as long as it makes you happy," and I said, "What? It has to make you happy too! Otherwise I'd just go with someone else!" He had a funny look on his face when I said that.

 

Maybe your BW really is the Big Bad Wolf. But more likely, she's just a person with good and bad traits who is currently being denied the truth about her life. She's trying her best but the puzzle pieces don't fit together and she just cannot figure out why. I've read countless accounts by OW suggesting that BW are "hanging onto their MM" when what they are doing is trying to make the marriage that they committed to work, just like they promised to. It's not manipulation. It's carrying out a commitment. The whole point of the affair is that one spouse is not telling the other that he's stopped being committed. So her reaction to that is one of confusion. If she's being nice when he's being a jerk, then she deserves some credit. A terrible person wouldn't respond that way.

[finna]

Perhaps. I don’t think she knows at this point or he would not be permitted to spend one minute in my presence. I also wouldn’t count her out at this point for digging in and hanging on - she’s managed for over ten years so far and he may allow it to happen because it’s the easiest path (among other reasons).

 

None of these things you speculate about are unknowns. Anyone on this site can tell you exactly how this story ends:

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

I agree with you. In this case MM has not been a jerk to her (other than than the affair activities yes). In fact he had gone above and beyond to try to please her and keep her happy throughout. I don’t think it is something he will be able to maintain but he sure is trying.

 

 

I find this very sad.

 

During my husband's affair he was cold and mean, which was out of character. When I noticed something particular, like how he didn't sit next to me and snuggle like he usually did at our best friends' house, I mentioned it and he did it the next time.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Turning point]

If she's being nice when he's being a jerk, then she deserves some credit. A terrible person wouldn't respond that way.

 

Well said.

 

The villain is the cheater. "Cheater" is the correct term because cheating people, stealing - as the term is defined is exactly what is being done. It's also known by the term "gaslighting" and cheating cannot be accomplished without it.

 

There is no level of marital disappointment that justifies this crime because leaving a marriage with dignity and honor is so easy to do.

[heartwhole2]

My husband would have said he wasnÂ’t being a jerk at the time too. But since viewing her adversarially is important to being able to cheat on her, he will be impatient, annoyed, etc.

[Turning point]

. In this case MM has not been a jerk to her (other than than the affair activities yes). In fact he had gone above and beyond to try to please her and keep her happy throughout.

 

"Yes, aside from the constant lies and a knife in her back Mrs. Smith could always rely on the good graces of her dear husband."

Good grief.

[finna]

Well we will see what happens when she finishes school next week- whether he continues to try to keep her happy after she has accomplished that milestone. They have a long planned vacation afterwards into July so I imagine all that time together might be make it or break it for the relationship- or maybe not since vacation tends to distract from real life challenges.

 

If he continues to work to keep her happy and satisfied for the next few months I would say that’s the answer to where he truly wants to be for his own happiness. If not, then they may go a different path.

 

Well said.

 

The villain is the cheater. "Cheater" is the correct term because cheating people, stealing - as the term is defined is exactly what is being done. It's also known by the term "gaslighting" and cheating cannot be accomplished without it.

 

There is no level of marital disappointment that justifies this crime because leaving a marriage with dignity and honor is so easy to do.

[finna]

My husband would have said he wasnÂ’t being a jerk at the time too. But since viewing her adversarially is important to being able to cheat on her, he will be impatient, annoyed, etc.

 

It’s hard for me to say- everything I’ve witnessed (which obviously is not nearly all) has indicated that he is behaving in an understanding and supportive manner for all of her challenges... whether he actually feels understanding and supportive I don’t know... the last conversation I witnessed last week she was stressed out and attacking and calling him names and he just kept patiently apologizing and trying to help her... trying to “fix” the situation as always... something he has done long before I was ever in the picture.

[Amethyst68]

Their family situation has changed, their child is now in school and they can no longer travel with your MM. Just in time for your great 'love' affair', what a coincidence... If I was his wife we would be having hard discussions about new jobs, career changes, it's time to stay closer to home.

 

Going by what you yourself have written this man is not good to his wife, he is away from home most the year, works to avoid her, sounds emotionally distant and wants to set her up a career, which will reduce alimony. BTW every time you say you're not going to be detrimental about his wife you follow up by saying something completely detrimental about her.

 

Do you travel as much as MM?

[PhoenixRising8]

I have actually wondered about this. He has told me before that I have the evidence to have him thrown out and divorced in a matter of weeks. I’m not sure in her current state she actually would file because she is too dependent on him (that’s not a slight - she doesn’t yet have a job, etc while finishing school). She also is very in love with the idea of him I think (obviously she doesn’t know or is in denial of his full character)..........He has said at those times he has done everything he could to fix whatever she wanted as he was afraid of being alone. Now he knows that he has the potential for options (not even necessarily me, but just that other women might be interested) so not sure how all that would play out.

 

I’m sorry, but I find this post somewhat funny. Please forgive me if what I am about to say sounds harsh. Reality often is.

 

You say she is ‘in love with the idea of him”. I think the same can be said of you. Neither of you know the real him. Both of you only know that part of him that he has shown each of you. The real him is at least partially hidden from both of you. More likely, you are both denying those parts of him that don’t fit your narrative. I’d be willing to bet she is also in some way conflict avoidant. The other thing is, they are MARRIED and the basis under which they continue to remain so, you don’t actually know, whether that is some form of love, for the child, fear of being alone etc. You can only SURMISE. If the idea of being in love with him is all she has, then that’s her right as it is his right to determine if that is sufficient for his needs and apparently it is.

 

Now, this part is really IMPORTANT: He has told you that he has done everything he could to fix whatever she wanted as he was afraid of being alone, but now that he has a soft landing (you) and won’t be alone, he STILL WON’T LEAVE. You have your answer – it’s very simple. He has everything he needs with both of you, each filling gaps the other can’t and won’t change anything because it’s easier to do what he is currently doing than work on what needs to be worked on in his marriage. Typical conflict avoidant MM behaviour which both you and BS are enabling him to continue to do.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

Their family situation has changed, their child is now in school and they can no longer travel with your MM. Just in time for your great 'love' affair', what a coincidence... If I was his wife we would be having hard discussions about new jobs, career changes, it's time to stay closer to home.

 

Going by what you yourself have written this man is not good to his wife, he is away from home most the year, works to avoid her, sounds emotionally distant and wants to set her up a career, which will reduce alimony. BTW every time you say you're not going to be detrimental about his wife you follow up by saying something completely detrimental about her.

 

Do you travel as much as MM?

 

I travel 25-35% of the time... not quite as much.

[finna]

No doubt that I am in love with my idea or perception of him. I would say that’s probably true for most people’s relationships... we rarely know 100% of everything about a person.

 

As far as whether he wants to focus solely on his marriage without me in the picture - that may be. I’ll know for sure in the next few days. If that’s the case this is all a fairly moot discussion.

 

 

I’m sorry, but I find this post somewhat funny. Please forgive me if what I am about to say sounds harsh. Reality often is.

 

You say she is ‘in love with the idea of him”.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PhoenixRising8]

Does this mean if he wants to focus on his marriage (to the extent that's possible with a third party in the picture) while keeping you in the mix also, are you OK with that? It sounds like you might be as you're leaving that up to him. Maybe I haven't understood properly.

[finna]

I think they are having those discussions. He also loves his job as it is currently his primary identity - he has a very different work personality - an assertive leader who is well-liked and respected and has no problem engaging in rigorous discourse and fighting for what he wants. I think he is very afraid of losing that particular identity.

 

 

Their family situation has changed, their child is now in school and they can no longer travel with your MM. Just in time for your great 'love' affair', what a coincidence... If I was his wife we would be having hard discussions about new jobs, career changes, it's time to stay closer to home.

 

Going by what you yourself have written this man is not good to his wife, he is away from home most the year, works to avoid her, sounds emotionally distant and wants to set her up a career, which will reduce alimony. BTW every time you say you're not going to be detrimental about his wife you follow up by saying something completely detrimental about her.

 

Do you travel as much as MM?

[Jhm42]

I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets pregnant in the next few months to further this goal (again, not being derogatory- just observing potential behavior based on what I’ve witnessed so far).

 

Or because she wants another child and should be allowed to think about that with her husband?

 

But not only is he making her feel crazy by denying what she suspects, he’s taking no steps to prevent their further entanglement in the form of another pregnancy and child? Not to state the obvious, but she can’t get pregnant on her own. He has choices. If he’s not making them, that should tell you something.

[finna]

Does this mean if he wants to focus on his marriage (to the extent that's possible with a third party in the picture) while keeping you in the mix also, are you OK with that? It sounds like you might be as you're leaving that up to him. Maybe I haven't understood properly.

 

I am not entirely sure - I’m trying to process what I want. Ideally we would be legit of course. I don’t know if I’m okay with anything else or not... I don’t want to be in some weird in between where we say we are friends only but then have benefits when we travel together... whatever we are needs to be understood and embraced by both of us - which is more than likely me saying come and find me if/when you are free.

[finna]

Or because she wants another child and should be allowed to think about that with her husband?

 

But not only is he making her feel crazy by denying what she suspects, he’s taking no steps to prevent their further entanglement in the form of another pregnancy and child? Not to state the obvious, but she can’t get pregnant on her own. He has choices. If he’s not making them, that should tell you something.

 

No doubt. That would tell much.

[PhoenixRising8]

I am not entirely sure - I’m trying to process what I want. Ideally we would be legit of course. I don’t know if I’m okay with anything else or not... I don’t want to be in some weird in between where we say we are friends only but then have benefits when we travel together... whatever we are needs to be understood and embraced by both of us - which is more than likely me saying come and find me if/when you are free.

 

Well, you appear to be getting at least as much as she is getting from him. You are in effect, the sister wife, the one that gets the fun while she has the real chores.

 

As for friends, no. Once you cross the line, friends is not what you are. The nature of friendships is not secret and a large part of your relationship is just that - secret.

Edited June 3, 2019 by LilKatKat

[finna]

Well, you appear to be getting at least as much as she is getting from him. You are in effect, the sister wife, the one that gets the fun while she has the real chores.

 

At the moment I am getting nothing. I am traveling in his city and he is home with the family with no extra effort to see me. I’m not complaining - he should be with his family while he is home. We have texted a bit while he was at work today. But I think it is a pretty good indication of the current state of things.

[finna]

Well, you appear to be getting at least as much as she is getting from him. You are in effect, the sister wife, the one that gets the fun while she has the real chores.

 

As for friends, no. Once you cross the line, friends is not what you are. The nature of friendships is not secret and a large part of your relationship is just that - secret.

 

I would actually be glad to legitimize our relationship as friends in many ways if it were possible. Like - being able to call or text just like any other friend or colleague about regular stuff. That would certainly require some specific boundaries and I know we are not there yet.

[pepperbird]

which is more than likely me saying come and find me if/when you are free.

 

 

I hope you don't wait around for him.

Why do you need him in your life anyway?

[BaileyB]

She also is very in love with the idea of him I think (obviously she doesn’t know or is in denial of his full character).

 

His is somewhat amusing to me, that you would say this and not have the insight to know that this also reflects your current state of being... Pot - kettle. Except, she is legally bound to the man and thus, has a different investment in the man than you do.

 

She suspects something is going on though and her response has been to work even harder to keep him around.

 

I have to wonder if this is the reason for the recent turn of events. She would have to be a fool not to be suspicious.

 

I also wouldn’t be surprised though if once she starts working, gains some confidence, and meets new people, as well as matures a little if she would move on from him.

 

Projecting, are we? Wouldn’t that be ideal for you if this was to happen... Let’s just say, she hasn’t gone anywhere yet. Only time will tell.

[BaileyB]

I would actually be glad to legitimize our relationship as friends in many ways if it were possible. Like - being able to call or text just like any other friend or colleague about regular stuff. That would certainly require some specific boundaries and I know we are not there yet.

 

No, you are definitely not there yet.

 

Let me ask you this - if your husband wanted to be “friends” with his former affair partner, what would you think of that plan?