In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[pepperbird]

op,

would you put up with this sort of behvaior if he wasn't married? If your answer is "no", then why will you tolerate it from him just because he's married?

[S2B]

It comes down to that my needs, preferences, and desires still have to do with him. That may not all always be the case, but right now that’s what I’m trying to navigate.

 

This is why it’s important that you have a counselor help you take YOUR power back! ASAP!

 

You’ve handed him all your power.

[SpiceCat]

I’m not angry at all- especially not with you. I appreciate the insight.

 

You ignored the rest of my post..can you please respond?

[elaine567]

Asking a man to leave his 5 year old son is madness, that is the bottom line. He thought he could build a life with you but on reflection decided it was a bad idea.

He would need to be able to manage two women, two, no doubt warring women, split his assets in two and see his son for only half the time he does now.

Contrast that with he keeps his wife, he keeps his road wife and nothing else changes... His wife remains ignorant, no financial costs, no court cases, he gets to see his son and he just needs to mould you into accepting it.

It is a no brainer.

[finna]

YES! I have also noticed this. OP does not respond to any comment that discusses the ethics/morality of this situation. She chooses to dismiss these posts as inconvenient or inconsequential, instead posting on her needs, wants, desires...

 

You can chose to ignore the morality/ethics of this situation if you like, but what kind of a person does that make you? You seem like an otherwise intelligent and reasonable woman, I have to believe that you have just compartmentalized this so much - written this woman off as a manipulative woman/bad relationship and crafted a new life that you believe will benefit all (you, this man, your children) - that you truly can’t appreciate the morality/ethics and chose to remain focused on what you WANT to happen here.

 

I addressed these points early in the thread and again from time to time but generally elect not to keep rehashing- people respond in various ways depending on the lens in which they view the situation.

 

Of course I am focused on what I’d like to have happen... my hopes and dreams and love and joy were wrapped up in a promised partnership for months, with a seemingly rational, even thoughtful reason for the delay. That has since changed and I’m doing my best to cope and adjust. I hate lies and deception, I don’t have any ill will for BS, and I have hated that the relationship with MM did not begin or end up with a legitimate status.

 

I want MM to be his happiest self, and to make choices and decisions that promote that. Whether that eventually involves me or not is partly on him and partly on me to decide.

[S2B]

Partly on him to decide? He decided!!! AND the decision was ripped away from you... he holds all the power now... because he knows you’re pining after him - enough to have false hope that he will leave his wife.

 

He told you he decided - why don’t you accept that?

Edited June 19, 2019 by S2B

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I too try not to focus too much on convincing OW to care about the BW because I feel like it feeds into the mentality that it's the OW's fault, which I find to be a sexist double standard. She's an accomplice but someone else is committing the actual crime. If we convince the get-away driver not to drive the robber to the bank, will he stop robbing banks?

 

But looking at the moral aspect is in your best-interest, asaysno, because you are the one with so much to lose from this scenario. I don't just barely manage to keep myself from stealing and cheating and lying out of a sense of compassion for others, though I do think I am compassionate. I do it for me. By living with integrity I attract very healthy people into my life, and I avoid the natural consequences of the sins I'm not committing. It is in your best interest not to be in a relationship with someone with so many issues and such poor morals. He cannot offer you a healthy relationship, divorced or not.

 

Your reasoning seems to be built on the premise that you could not find this great love with someone else. And that fear of not being able to find another (I'd say better) man is based on poor self-esteem. This conflict-avoidant, lying, cheating man who lives 5,000 miles away is the best that you believe you can get. And how could you be compassionate towards his BW and child if you can't even be compassionate towards yourself?

 

Excellent post! I have a theory though that her attraction to MM may be in part because he is opposite of xH. Seems like xH boring but MM exciting. Plenty of fish in the sea though...and MMs' shine always wears off given enough time!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

This is why it’s important that you have a counselor help you take YOUR power back! ASAP!

 

You’ve handed him all your power.

 

I wish I could put this quote in BRIGHT FLASHING LIGHTS!!! Herein lies your TRUE DILEMMA, OP! This is the message everyone is trying to get through to you.

[heartwhole2]

Asaysno, he told you to take your power back when he did his about-face and said he was working on his marriage. But you keep saying, "No please! You keep it! Don't leave me!"

[SpiceCat]

Partly on him to decide? He decided!!! AND the decision was ripped away from you... he holds all the power now... because he knows you’re pining after him - enough to have false hope that he will leave his wife.

 

He told you he decided - why don’t you accept that?

 

To be fair to her, the fact that he remains in touch is giving her false hope that he still might abandon his family for her. If she went NC and made the decision for both of them, it would be a lot easier. She just doesn't appear to be strong or selfless enough to do that yet. Until she gets there, she will remain stuck in the same painful cycle of getting watching the goal post move further and further away, getting dumped, getting love bombed, and rebuilding all her hope.

 

At least part of her knows it's wrong, as she did seek out advice here. She'll eventually run out of justifications for his bad behavior and for her own, come to terms with the fact that she is probably not the exception to the rule and get sick enough of the pain to walk away. Most of us do.

 

I wish her the strength to do that sooner rather than later.

[S2B]

Well - it will take you experiencing a lot of pain and suffering to change this yourself... and that is what we have all tried to help you avoid.

 

Be ready... it only will get much worse before things change - since change is up to you but you won’t change this. Be ready. These situations never get better only worse.

[BaileyB]

Of course I am focused on what I’d like to have happen... my hopes and dreams and love and joy were wrapped up in a promised partnership for months, with a seemingly rational, even thoughtful reason for the delay. That has since changed and I’m doing my best to cope and adjust. I hate lies and deception, I don’t have any ill will for BS, and I have hated that the relationship with MM did not begin or end up with a legitimate status.

 

I want MM to be his happiest self, and to make choices and decisions that promote that. Whether that eventually involves me or not is partly on him and partly on me to decide.

 

This is your narrative, I get that. It still doesn’t actually consider the ethics/morality of the situation.

 

It’s obviously different, but consider this analogy...

 

Your son decides that he wants the lead role in the school play. He auditions, but unfortunately the part goes to another boy. Your son comes to you and says “Mom, I have a plan. I REALLY want this part. I have never been the lead in the school play and I KNOW this part is meant for me! I’m going to tell the teacher that I know something bad about this other boy - something that I know will mean he can’t be in the school play anymore. Well, it may not be totally true... but, I think he did it. You know, he’s done other bad things before. I hate lying, but I really want that part! Did I tell you - I’ve never had a part like this before? I wish that I could have auditioned and got the part the right way, but... it will be ok. I’ll do a really good job! I feel badly that the other boy won’t get the part, I like him and I don’t wish him any ill will. But, having a lead role in the play is something I’ve always wanted and I just know, it will make ME happy. I hate that it has to be this way but I WANT this part. It will be so much fun...”

 

What would you say to him? Would you say, this other child earned the part, you should be happy for him and wish him well, you will have other opportunities? Or would you say, of course, you are justified to lie, to hurt this other boy, and take something that rightfully belongs to him because YOU want it. I would have preferred it if you would have auditioned and been given the part legitimately, but I want you to be happy...

Edited June 20, 2019 by BaileyB

[finna]

I hear you. The hard part about this is that to make the analogy work for my situation you would have to add that my son was originally promised the part, and then was invited to have the part once every few shows.

[MustbeloveNot]

Again, not to sound like a broken record... but how is this fair or right by his wife and his child? Why are you entitled to “have your fun” at other people’s expense? .....

 

This is soooo Spot on.. You have no skin in this game.. your [his affair partner] and nothing more. You seem to think you have a higher place than his Wife and Children... He’s Married.... that simple.

 

 

 

Just accept it and leave him be.

Edited June 27, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

I hear you. The hard part about this is that to make the analogy work for my situation you would have to add that my son was originally promised the part, and then was invited to have the part once every few shows.

Ok he may have been "promised" the part but the other boy is actually in the lead role, he is the one one who actually plays the part.

The person who "promised" has changed their mind...

Of course even if your boy manages to oust the star performer, it doesn't mean the lead role is necessarily his.. They may then be looking for another boy to play the lead role...

[finna]

After frequent communication two days ago (and prior) I have been ghosted the last day and a half. This is the part that definitely doesn’t feel good. It’s not completely unexpected with vacation time but he did say he would be checking in regularly so something is off, as we generally communicate at least once or twice or day.

 

He did post a picture of BS and son on social media and while his son was smiling hugely she looked like she wanted to cut MM’s balls off- totally pissed off. Not trying to read anything specific into that - just observing and wondering what’s happening... could be nothing of significance.

 

My son and I are staying with friends through the weekend so I am treating this as a NC period. I will not message unless I hear something substantial from him and see how it goes for me... baby steps.

[sagamore]

I hear you. The hard part about this is that to make the analogy work for my situation you would have to add that my son was originally promised the part, and then was invited to have the part once every few shows.

 

You have never, ever “played the part” in the big show. At best, he used to invite you to “play the part” at a small stage across town with only one or two people sitting around in chairs. And the reason you accepted this arrangement is that you’d never been on any stage before. It felt fun and thrilling - and to add to it all, he used to say, “One day I’ll have you on the big stage...just wait.” But then, he stopped. He told you he needs to focus on the lead he has. The show isn’t perfect (none is) but it works and he can’t risk a change.

 

That’s what you don’t get. You have never, not for one minute, taken her place on that main stage. It’s always been her. You’ve never comforted his son, shared his home or been presented as his partner in life. Yes, he used to hold out hope for you one day...but he’s not anymore. He has given you VERY CLEAR signals that you will never be on that stage. You’re reaching in trying to divine hints from his body language, etc. that you might still have a chance. But you don’t. And now, you’re returning again and again to that dingy, small stage that used to seem so amazing and glamorous. You’re starting to see the cracks in the walls and the dust on the floor. And you’re starting to think...is this all there is? He promised me so much more. You’ll always pine for the big stage and the lights that he promised and you never got to see. And the longer you hold out hope, the longer you’ll feel the heartbreak of getting “so close” (but not really) and having that dream ripped away because he had already committed to another lead.

[Starswillshine]

After frequent communication two days ago (and prior) I have been ghosted the last day and a half. This is the part that definitely doesn’t feel good. It’s not completely unexpected with vacation time but he did say he would be checking in regularly so something is off, as we generally communicate at least once or twice or day.

 

He did post a picture of BS and son on social media and while his son was smiling hugely she looked like she wanted to cut MM’s balls off- totally pissed off. Not trying to read anything specific into that - just observing and wondering what’s happening... could be nothing of significance.

 

My son and I are staying with friends through the weekend so I am treating this as a NC period. I will not message unless I hear something substantial from him and see how it goes for me... baby steps.

 

It's a snapshot of a nanosecond in time. And who knows what happened in that nanosecond to give her your perceived looked of anger. Also, you are looking at it with a ton of confirmation bias. "They are not having a fun time."

[finna]

It's a snapshot of a nanosecond in time. And who knows what happened in that nanosecond to give her your perceived looked of anger. Also, you are looking at it with a ton of confirmation bias. "They are not having a fun time."

 

Exactly. I had several people ask me about it which is why I even mentioned it.

[elaine567]

This is what OWs, unrequited lovers, dumpees... etc. do.

They become "experts" at sussing out negative emotions on social media pics...

to suit what they want to believe...

[finna]

You have never, ever “played the part” in the big show. At best, he used to invite you to “play the part” at a small stage across town with only one or two people sitting around in chairs. And the reason you accepted this arrangement is that you’d never been on any stage before. It felt fun and thrilling - and to add to it all, he used to say, “One day I’ll have you on the big stage...just wait.” But then, he stopped. He told you he needs to focus on the lead he has. The show isn’t perfect (none is) but it works and he can’t risk a change.

 

That’s what you don’t get. You have never, not for one minute, taken her place on that main stage. It’s always been her. You’ve never comforted his son, shared his home or been presented as his partner in life. Yes, he used to hold out hope for you one day...but he’s not anymore. He has given you VERY CLEAR signals that you will never be on that stage. You’re reaching in trying to divine hints from his body language, etc. that you might still have a chance. But you don’t. And now, you’re returning again and again to that dingy, small stage that used to seem so amazing and glamorous. You’re starting to see the cracks in the walls and the dust on the floor. And you’re starting to think...is this all there is? He promised me so much more. You’ll always pine for the big stage and the lights that he promised and you never got to see. And the longer you hold out hope, the longer you’ll feel the heartbreak of getting “so close” (but not really) and having that dream ripped away because he had already committed to another lead.

 

Yes - this is part of the process that I am working through. For the record though, there have been times when I have taken care of his son (as a friend) when there was significant need and before he “refocused” last month he was presenting me to our mutual friends as his partner for now and the future (he shared his intentions and some of our plans with them). Which makes this adjustment even more difficult for me.

[Amethyst68]

The level of disrespect shown to the BW is simply astonishing and the fact you're ok with it says a lot...

 

You should never have any contact with the child, leaving it there.

 

I take it these mutual friends know he already has a wife? Unless he lives in a country whee polygamy is accepted did no-one ever question that little inconvenience?

[Starswillshine]

I'm going to make some large assumptions and guess these were male friends.

 

My exH... all his close friends and travel partners knew of his cheating ways and his OW. They just turn a blind eye because they are all cheating too. Bro code and all.

[heartwhole2]

Yes - this is part of the process that I am working through. For the record though, there have been times when I have taken care of his son (as a friend) when there was significant need and before he “refocused” last month he was presenting me to our mutual friends as his partner for now and the future (he shared his intentions and some of our plans with them). Which makes this adjustment even more difficult for me.

 

Oh dear.

 

You had several people see MM's picture of his wife and son on SM and ask you about it? Do these people know about the affair? What a terrible mind-f*ck this will be for BW when the truth comes out, that a group of affair-condoners were discussing why she looked grumpy in a picture. And with how many people know, what are the odds the truth won't come out? The least you can do is refuse to discuss these things with others who know them and refuse to be in their home or with their son.

 

You are an intelligent person and I am sure you aware of the ramifications of your being in their home with their son. I would be surprised if it hasn't occurred to you that the more you tarnish their relationship, the better the chances you'll get to star in that play.

 

Only it really doesn't work that way. An MM who was really going to leave would be careful to be on good terms with the BW he was about to coparent and go through a divorce with. All you are doing is insuring that when DDay happens, you will be viewed as a calculating manipulator by both of them. They will in all likelihood unite against you, strengthening their bond by triangulating with you, just as you and MM have done with BW. You will be the perfect scapegoat, just as she was with the many flaws and sins of hers you have shared with us.

 

That turn of events might be the only thing that gets you to accept that this isn't going to happen. But please imagine how much anguish you will feel. Can you walk away now with your dignity somewhat intact and your professional relationships protected?

 

You said in the beginning that you were positive this will work out, that it's meant to be. If that is the case, then walking away now won't have any impact on divine destiny. You will simply be extricating yourself so that he can end his marriage because that's what is right for them, without someone else in the picture. Then he can come to you when he is available and offer you the monogamy you desire.

 

The problem is that you are very much driven by fear. You have this overwhelming urge to cling to him. You will go to great lengths to sever the tie between him and BW and to hold on until the bitter end, and then you try on different rationalizations to dress up your actions. We poke holes in those rationalizations, so you adjust them or try different ones, which makes following your story very confusing. I suppose this is how you have to do it, to try on new justifications until you are forced to admit there's nothing left to make what you're doing OK.

[BaileyB]

I hear you. The hard part about this is that to make the analogy work for my situation you would have to add that my son was originally promised the part, and then was invited to have the part once every few shows.

 

My friend, life is t fair. People can change their mind about a relationship anytime. One day they are in, the next day they are out. They can try to come and go from the relationship.

 

I know you realize this, but it’s important to remember. Nothing is promised in this life. A loving relationship is a gift, it’s not an entitlement.

 

And - if your part was promised and now you only get to do it once every few shows... that’s because your MM changed the rules on you - because it suited him. His kid is playing the lead... see what I’m saying...