In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Naivewomen]

I guess half a century of integrity counts for nothing. Thanks for that Turning. Everything is defined by one bad choice. I suppose you've made none. Never hurt anyone. Good for you.

 

Onward and upward.

 

 

These are the non sinners of the world.....

[Turning point]

These are the non sinners of the world.....

 

I think we're likely judged by our penance rather than the sin.

 

Sure, a single crime might carry a life sentence, but we have our whole life to choose how we carry it out. Most of the prisons described in these threads are self imposed. You could leave at any time.

[Orokotikki]

Forgiveness is a gift, not an entitlement.

The severity of a transgression makes a difference.

 

The clock sets to zero.

Maybe now you have 1 yr or so of demonstrated integrity for example (just example).

Yeah its not 51, but its better than 0.

 

I have never committed sexual assault, but if I did, I am not entitled to their forgiveness, and would always bear that label, and would have to come to grips with it and try to live best as I can being better despite it. And owe something to the person and society harmed.

[Turning point]

Indeed NW. My response to the non sinners? Yeah OK, whatever ...

 

And TP, don't assume my integrity has never been tested before or since, because it has. It's righteous people who verbalized that one transgression negates a lifetime of right choices that makes it difficult for forgiveness and moving on.

 

I not assuming anything. I'm also not speaking to the totality of your life - only the specific conflicting assertions you make in this thread.

 

If you drop the 'all-or-nothing' thinking and deconstruct the situation one incremental denial at a time you'll find your way out of the distress.

[darkbloom]

I think a lot of blame is placed unfairly on the OW/OM. I have been both cheated on and been the OW. My story is not unique by any means but we were friends before and he has never and had never talked ill about his wife. We ended up in bed but not sleeping together after ending up in the same city for work. I was feeling better after a long time getting over someone who had cheated on me. I didn’t consciously make the choice to become an OW as I don’t think he consciously chose to cheat on his fiancé. We met up for drinks and it all went from there. I would consider myself a person of integrity who got wrapped up in the moment and made a bad choice. I don’t think that this bad choice is any better or any worse than anyone else’s.

 

I think we need to remember that we are all human and at one point have made a bad decision. Whether that be cheating, lying, being manipulative etc. OW tend to get demonized the most because they were vulnerable to a bad decision even though we all make them. I think we can take the moral superiority down just a notch on this thread and try to empathize. The fact that so many OW come here and find clarity and then try to pass this on to others is a gift that we shouldn’t turn down because of the bad decisions it took to get them here.

[finna]

I originally started this thread because I was (and am) in a rough place regarding my relationship with MM. I welcome all thoughts on the matter and have appreciated hearing perspectives from everyone. It has opened my eyes to potential usual behavior and psychology. In many ways I wish I had done this inquiry and research far earlier in my relationship as I would have taken a different approach on a number of things. I didn’t know such resources existed.

 

I now enter a next chapter of sorts- MM is beginning a third week of vacation with family - and they will be with him for another week after that while he is working in my city. We are scheduled to meet up in two weeks for a long weekend together, but I don’t know if that will happen. In the last week he has communicated via text every day but all just friendly- pictures of his kid during the holiday, brief description of the day’s activities, etc.

 

This is not unusual for family time but it is the first time since I’ve known him that he has spent this much time with family at one go. I have a suspicion that once he is back to his normal routine of working and traveling that communication may revert to more of our usual- as it did last weekend when he had a few hours to himself. Who’s to say though- maybe he is forming new habits and so am I.

 

I am still trying to get and stay angry about things but my heart is not really in it. I dream of him every night and wake up disappointed that he is not there holding me... waking up in his arms two weeks ago seems like a minute and a lifetime ago. The pain is often intense. Just trying to take it one day at a time... working through the pain.

[Crazelnut]

You know that longing and the pain and disappointment? This is your life now. This is your future, unless you take back your power and find the strength to insist on better for yourself. Because longing, pain, and disappointment are fundamental to being an OW.

[elaine567]

Crazelnut is right.

You had better get used to it, as this is your life from now on.

This is the "choice" you have made.

[FMW]

asaysno, the previous posts about this being how you will continue to feel are right.

 

I really hate to see you choose to stay stuck in this situation - your fleeting moments of happiness only coming when he chooses to pay attention to you.

 

I still feel hurt, every day, but it's different and so much easier to handle now that I have cut off the MM's access to me. I feel hopeful and excited about the future - all I was able to feel when I chose to stay shackled to him was longing and waiting. My life was on hold. He ghosted me for 3 months and then made contact again expecting me to be happily available to him.

Although it was one of the hardest things I've ever done, even after being ignored for months, it was such a relief to lose that "hope" that he would choose me. To be free to do whatever I want, without thinking "but what if...."

 

I don't post as much as I used to in this section of the forum because it's just so discouraging to me to see others willfully staying stuck. It really is a choice. I very much loved the MM, still do although I certainly don't LIKE him, but life goes on if you let it. There are better things out there for you if you'll unchain yourself from this. Yes, it will continue to hurt for a long time - but far less than staying stuck.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Finding my way

[BaileyB]

And that’s the thing that is played out time and again on this board...you can love someone very much, it doesn’t mean that you can or even that you should be together.

 

It takes some people a really long time to learn this lesson...

[Beentheretoooften]

I am literally addicted to this forum. There are so many people who are Incredibly smart and speak from experience. The Information here is so valuable. And so spot on. Looking at my own story, and seeing what these experienced posters are saying...OMG, spot on mostly. But personally, I could only see it after he fact, even if i had stumbled upon this forum during. That’s the issue with OP. when she finally ends it the proper way, sticks to NC, she too will realize what is actually happening. I have a question for anyone, what if MM, as honestly as he can, says to AP, look, I’ll never leave my W. You and I can keep this up as long as you like, and we can pretend we are together when we are with each other. Texting and phone calls will be only instigated by me, as well as travel plans, but i will do these things as often as i can. The situation totally controlled by MM like as described in these forums. What percent of AP’s would still continue on?

[BaileyB]

I have a question for anyone, what if MM, as honestly as he can, says to AP, look, I’ll never leave my W. You and I can keep this up as long as you like, and we can pretend we are together when we are with each other. Texting and phone calls will be only instigated by me, as well as travel plans, but i will do these things as often as i can. The situation totally controlled by MM like as described in these forums. What percent of AP’s would still continue on?

 

Probably not very many.

 

The thing that we see here time and again, MM will come on strong in the beginning but for many, they don’t often have to provide much encouragement... Women who are unhappy with their lives and/or so flattered by the attention of a man that they are willing to throw away their marriages and/or risk the stability of their children’s home. A few nice words, an “I love you,” a little hope for a future together “someday”... many OW will take what little is offered and begin to fill in the rest of the story, creating a fantasy about this man and the future and that, is what is difficult to let go...

[BTDT2012]

I hear you. The hard part about this is that to make the analogy work for my situation you would have to add that my son was originally promised the part, and then was invited to have the part once every few shows.

In you situation, the part that was offered has was already being performed by someone else.

[elaine567]

Love is the drug, most OWs cannot stay away from love.

"I love you" and it is all over.

Once she totally buys into that, he can do no wrong...

[BaileyB]

Elaine, thought your last post in the other discussion was equally appropriate here. Hope you don’t mind if I reference...

 

Seems to me many married women find they married the wrong bloke and essentially try to replace him by monkey branching.

They find a willing participant and try to persuade him to be her next husband/long term partner.

It tends not to work out well as married men who want to leave, tend to just leave, they separate, divorce and start dating.

Men who want to have an affair, just have an affair... persuading these guys to leave is often an up hill struggle..

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/686024-words-support-all-here-would-love-you-re-responses-too-6.html

[mark clemson]

This is your future, unless you take back your power and find the strength to insist on better for yourself. Because longing, pain, and disappointment are fundamental to being an OW.

 

Crazelnut is right....

This is the "choice" you have made.

 

asaysno, the previous posts about this being how you will continue to feel are right. ... There are better things out there for you if you'll unchain yourself from this. Yes, it will continue to hurt for a long time - but far less than staying stuck.

 

 

Reposting the points above because I too think they are accurate and very much worth your consideration, Asayno.

 

This may be what you want right now for emotional reasons, but I strongly suspect that in 3 years or in 5 you will most likely regret it. Either there will be no change in the status quo of your affair or he will have left but will be playing the field broadly. The LDR aspect increases the chance he will seek locally for new women IF he ever even leaves.

 

You should think about this for a long time...

[BTDT2012]

I have a question for anyone, what if MM, as honestly as he can, says to AP, look, I’ll never leave my W. You and I can keep this up as long as you like, and we can pretend we are together when we are with each other. Texting and phone calls will be only instigated by me, as well as travel plans, but i will do these things as often as i can. The situation totally controlled by MM like as described in these forums. What percent of AP’s would still continue on?

Many years ago, before Social media and everyone having cell phones I was in this type of relationship. When I decided that I was ready for a real relationship, I broke up with him. No way did I want to be a part to the break-up of a marriage. I don't think you will find people who are truly in FWB type relationships on forums.

[BaileyB]

Many years ago, before Social media and everyone having cell phones I was in this type of relationship. When I decided that I was ready for a real relationship, I broke up with him. No way did I want to be a part to the break-up of a marriage. I don't think you will find people who are truly in FWB type relationships on forums.

 

That’s not FWB though - it’s an extramarital affair. Let’s call a spade a spade. It’s not possible to be “friends with benefits” with a married man.

 

Not directed toward you BTDT, just a comment... It’s amazing to me the things people tell themselves to make this kind of decision ok. “When you were ready for a real relationship, you broke up with him because no way did you want to be a part to the break up of a marriage...” And yet, that was essentially what you were doing when you were “FWB” with a married man - he was putting his marriage at risk and you were complicit in that situation.

[elaine567]

I believe the only way a woman can be happy in an affair with a MM is that if she treats the MM as a FWB.

She never gets invested, she never falls in love and she walks away if she gets bored or she finds someone else, or she has other things to do with her life.

As soon as a woman gets emotionally invested in a MM, she is IMO "lost".

ETA

BTW I am not condoning this approach it is still an affair and innocents do get hurt...

Edited June 29, 2019 by elaine567

[BTDT2012]

That’s not FWB though - it’s an extramarital affair. Let’s call a spade a spade. It’s not possible to be “friends with benefits” with a married man.

 

Not directed toward you BTDT, just a comment... It’s amazing to me the things people tell themselves to make this kind of decision ok. “When you were ready for a real relationship, you broke up with him because no way did you want to be a part to the break up of a marriage...” And yet, that was essentially what you were doing when you were “FWB” with a married man - he was putting his marriage at risk and you were complicit in that situation.

 

 

Don't think I don't understand that. I am so grateful that I was not the cause of his marriage ending. What I did was wrong. It was hidden while it was happening because I knew it was wrong.

 

 

 

And I believe God allowed me to experience being a BW because of that action.

[BaileyB]

And I believe God allowed me to experience being a BW because of that action.

 

Ah, I don’t know that I believe that. You made a mistake in your youth - you righted it and you grew from it. I don’t think that makes you deserving of more hurt. I’m so sorry...

[heartwhole2]

I'm not sure how much time I'll have for LS going forward, but Asaysno, I am happy to PM with you if you care to hear my perspective/share things (I would have PMed you this message but it is not appearing as an option for me). Same goes for anyone else -- I'm happy to have one on one conversations but I'm not sure how much time or energy I'll be putting into keeping up with threads. Life is out there to be lived and I don't want to make "affair land" my main hobby, if you know what I mean. Best wishes to everyone for a healthy and fulfilling life; I do believe that's within all of our reach.

[finna]

Thank you heartwhole - your support and thoughtful advice had been invaluable.

[finna]

This may be what you want right now for emotional reasons, but I strongly suspect that in 3 years or in 5 you will most likely regret it. Either there will be no change in the status quo of your affair or he will have left but will be playing the field broadly. The LDR aspect increases the chance he will seek locally for new women IF he ever even leaves. You should think about this for a long time...

 

I tried to respond to this earlier but it disappeared into the cyber ether. I have spent hours, days, weeks reflecting on my situation and find the points to be very relevant. All kinds of thoughts have crossed my mind including whether he will completely go back to BS and cut off all future extracurricular activity with me or anyone else... what are the odds?

 

I have also been evaluating what my true needs are regarding a relationship. I know that MM had met many of my needs that were not provided for in my marriage- definitely felt good to fill that gap. I’m not sure I’m in a place right now where I want a serious full commitment - although if it ever did end up that MM wanted to make us legit I would certainly give it a shot.

 

One of things I have loved about the development of my relationship with MM is that it happened organically... we were colleagues and friends for a long time - I knew him well for years before anything escalated. One of my big concerns is that I don’t have any available guy friends in a similar organic circumstance and the thought of skipping that part to “play the dating game” is beyond unappealing for me. There are not a lot of opportunities for me to begin to even start to invest in those organic circumstances.

 

I know it can take time but it feels a little hopeless to be able to develop such important friendships anytime in the near future. I don’t want to be with anyone that I don’t feel like I know and trust - I’m actually quite a private person. When I make a friend, I generally keep them for decades (so have a nice group, some of whom go back to my school days) but it doesn’t happen relatively often.

Edited June 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Imo, the number one relationship you need to focus on is the one with yourself. Even though your divorce was amicable, it's a big life change. Those types of changes affect us deeply. You need to focus on who you are without romance, and what you want for yourself going forward.

 

The next relationship to focus on is your son, of course. I know you're doing your best under the circumstances.

 

If you need an extra push, think of what you will tell your son one day of the experiences you are currently facing. Some day he will come to you for counsel. Be that example for how you'd like him to be when his future self is in a similar situation. Also, I believe even though you say he's well adjusted and looked after, he most definitely can and does sense your distress. Children are incredibly tuned in to the most minuscule details of their care givers, and it does impact their well-being when a care-giver is distressed.

 

The only real way to get beyond the distress is to face what you are avoiding. Not easy, but you owe it to yourself and your child. And you CAN do it!