In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Zona]

An affair partner is a totally awesome thing to have in your life if you don't care about the damage you do to other people involved.

 

Well, in this case, OP was willing to end her marriage to become his (part-time) mistress. That is one of the biggest ego-kibbles a guy can get, and all it cost was some sugary words and simple romantic gestures.

 

I'm not saying the guy is "evil". It's not an either or that he is either evil or a good guy. He is probably someone with a narcissistic personality that is very charming when he wants to be. Keeping communication to a minimum when he is with his wife is likely to help him compartmentalize and keep separate his family life, and his relationship with OP.

[darkbloom]

I may actually see him today in a semi-work setting (coffee shop meeting with another colleague). We may have a few minutes to talk. I think I will get a sense of the state of things regardless. I’m assuming you are saying the alternative to me waiting to see what happens is that I end it. I’m not ready to do that so if you have other alternatives at this point please share.

 

I understand this more than you know. Your absolute reluctance to end things concerns me, it’s like you have no self preservation. Even if you talk to him today, you’ve still set your internal clock for 9 days from now and will be counting it down-putting everything in your life on hold for this one thing.

 

I am you. I’ve been you. There is no happily ever after at the end of these 9 days. You’ll spend your weekend of bliss with him and then once he leaves you will reset your clock and count down the days until he comes back around.

 

My heart is breaking for you and all the pain that lies ahead.

[Abetterme]

I understand this more than you know. Your absolute reluctance to end things concerns me, it’s like you have no self preservation. Even if you talk to him today, you’ve still set your internal clock for 9 days from now and will be counting it down-putting everything in your life on hold for this one thing.

 

I am you. I’ve been you. There is no happily ever after at the end of these 9 days. You’ll spend your weekend of bliss with him and then once he leaves you will reset your clock and count down the days until he comes back around.

 

My heart is breaking for you and all the pain that lies ahead.

 

Darkblooms post breaks my heart. She so perfectly describes what you can’t see. You don’t have pain ahead....you are in it. Does it feel good to wait on this guy to decide when he picks you back up? I am with many of the other posters in that I don’t doubt he cares for you in his way, that he is conflicted. So many of his actions followed that of my xMM. The difference between you and I is that I never wanted him. I knew better. It was a facade. I just wanted out, and I hope you get to that place too.

 

I encourage you to take a step back and really look at this situation. Would you want your son being treated like this by a MOW? Or what would you say to a friend going through the same thing? I hope it wouldn’t be continue waiting and wasting their life for someone else’s pleasure. I wish you all the best.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Women can be pretty good at the "he likes me, he smiles a lot at me, he says nice things about me, he thinks i am amazing, he wants to have sex with me, therefore he loves me".

Sadly, not always true and especially not true when he is a married man with a child who when given a stark choice, chose his wife and child.

I am sure he loves the travelling, the holiday aspect of your time together, he will love the extra sex, he will love the companionship, but as for making this a permanent and monogamous relationship, i guess no chance.....

 

^^^^100% truth...every word!

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

op,

when it comes right down to it, it may well be that you ave to accept that if you want to be in a relationship with mm, it will be part time.

 

There will be no real commitments, no real plans, it will be basically take things as they come. If that's what you are looking for-and maybe it is- then this affair may well be enough for you.

 

If it's not, then how long are you willing to wait for him to decide? Why are you even putting the ball in his court anyway? This is YOUR life, not his.

 

Yes - taking things day by day is what I am doing now. Sometimes the pain is still crushing, but mostly I live life as full as I can and take any relationship stuff as a bonus. I’m really quite low maintenance- a kind word or a compliment can keep me going almost all day. So maybe it is enough right now - I’m not sure... of course I’d rather have it be legit- that is never in question but in the meantime I have about 18 months to get the next phase of my life together.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Although I think it’s progress for you if you’re thinking he’s using you while you’re still having sex...

 

Nah, he doesn't wonder...too busy preening his feathers.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

....It serves a HUGE purpose for him to keep in touch with you...he benefits a lot! And you sacrifice a LOT to continue doing it.

 

What purpose is that? Especially when it is not about sex?

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

What purpose is that? Especially when it is not about sex?

 

I'm going to try to help on this...

 

My xMM and I were months on and months off over 3.5 years (with my interest in romance with him tapering more each time we were off).

 

We had some physical stuff, but the majority of it was emotional...never intercourse although we were as close as any two people could come to that on a couple of occasions. Why do you suppose my xMM carried on for all those years without sex? I will tell you my thoughts but I would like to hear yours first, please.

[finna]

I don’t know- at a general level it sounds like you provided something that was missing for him that outweighed the risks...

[darkbloom]

Being an OW is like being a doll in a box that only gets to come out for special occasions. When MM is done with you, he puts you back in your box on your shelf until he’s ready to play again. His wife doesn’t have a box or a shelf. Your time is spent thinking and obsessing when you’re going to get to come out of your box again.

 

 

 

Here’s my post on another OW’s post from 2017. Your posts bring me back to when I was in the thick of my fog and so stuck on what my MM was going to do. I would obsess and sit in my box. It was ugly.

 

I know you aren’t ready to end it but my advice to you is to spend all of your energy on something else. Literally anything. And don’t make yourself available when he comes calling. Show him you have a life outside of waiting for him to take you off your shelf. You will feel a million times better about yourself and the control you are starting to take back.

[Amethyst68]

Ever heard the phrase ego kibbles? It's why internet and emotional affairs can last for years.

 

Yes, they are real and can do as much damage to a relationship as a PA. In fact in your case I'd say you were in at least a one sided EA (on your side) long before you finally had sex with MM.

 

You say you've got 18 months to to lay the foundations of a new life. If that's true you have to stop seeing MM, the reason? You're too emotionally involved, in another year and a half you'll be so invested I predict you won't be able to pull back. In your mind at least your lives will be intertwined by that point. Plus you'll be living with the threat (or hope) of a DDay constantly over your head.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I don’t know- at a general level it sounds like you provided something that was missing for him that outweighed the risks...

 

I think that's in the correct vein, except that I think it was more that he felt he could manage everything on both sides of the fence (with me and his BS) rather than feel like he was risking.

 

Generally, when MM feel like there is risk involved, they pull back from OW until the coast is clear.

 

My xMM specifically said in one of our last conversations that things were good at home because he had his BS "under control." Control is a feature for some MM. He was also very controlling with me regarding frequency of conversations, topics, etc. Almost all enjoy the huge ego boost. My xMM enjoyed our intellectual conversations, the way each of us viewed the world, and I think that he enjoyed that I always challenged him. He also said towards the end of last year that conversing with me (very very little flirting or sexual innuendo by that time) was disrespectful to his wife.

 

What can you see here about the non-sexual benefits my xMM derived?

[GraceAndJoy]

Speaking here from a BS who learned a lot about motivations of my wayward husband because we went through years of trying to save the marriage, and he opened up to me a lot about the affair.

 

My H said, "It wasn't all about the sex, it was about HER WILLINGNESS TO GIVE ME SEX." He said that her DEVOTION to him was what made him addicted to the affair...that she would do anything for him; wait for him and not date others; arrange her life around him; text him romantic things every day, etc. When I asked if he thought those things were lacking in our marriage, he said, "You are good at all of that, but it doesn't feel the same, because it's a given that you would do those things, as you are my wife. Your love is a safe, sweet kind of love, like the love from my mom. I don't have to EARN it. With her, it's different."

 

So yes, he was addicted to being desired outside of the "safe, sweet" marital desiring/love.

 

I point this out because this motivation is like the ego kibbles mentioned above. The affair partner serves the role of giving excitement, validation, ego strokes. But my H did not want to give up his marital relationship either because that was his safe/secure/sweet love. He wanted us both because we both fed him differently.

 

After multiple D-days and no hope in sight, I finally filed for divorce. After the divorce he tried to date AP but their relationship fell apart. He told me one reason was that both of them had a lot of resentment toward one another (she resented that he strung her along for years and didn't ever choose her; he resented the cost of losing his family and her selfishness). He is alone now and as far as I know, so is she.

[finna]

Grace- thank you for your perspective- it makes a lot of sense as to why MM still communicates and wants to spend time with me. I often wonder why he does especially as he has said he wants to focus on his family.

 

I also relate to the feeling of resentment of not being chosen; I can see where this would be what finally causes enough distaste to end the relationship.

[Beentheretoooften]

@grace

I’d love to hear more and ask you some questions. I couldnt respond to your thread because it been over 60 days. No access to pm’s

:

[GraceAndJoy]

@Beentheretoooften

I don't have enough posts on here to pm I think. Ask anything you want though--hopefully related to thread/OP!

[Beentheretoooften]

@graceandjoy. Thanks. I wonder if I could just start a new thread in this ow/om place. That way, it doesn’t take away from the OP. I actually am away now, but i want to read more in depth all your posts before I start asking, so not to duplicate anything info you have shared. May I ask you to keep on the lookout for my thread opener? Thanks.

[finna]

I saw him briefly but his family is was with him (another colleague and I were meeting to get some work done at a local coffee shop - MM stopped in to say hi and discuss a bit of business with us). It was a bit weird. His wife seemed totally pissed off to be there. MM gave both my colleague and I a hug, which is normal behavior for our team when we haven’t seen each other in a while.

 

He had been messaging me earlier in the day and during that time had said he might stop by- I said I’d be glad to see him (knowing it would be business only) and he said he would try. We chatted and shared funny content for a while and he offered several compliments, which he hadn’t done in the last week or so while on holiday.

 

Anyway, during the brief visit we mostly talked business but he also brought up a couple of things that are business-related but also have related inside jokes between him and I, which caught me slightly off guard.

 

So nothing really conclusive at this point as there was not an opportunity for any private conversation.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Amethyst68]

Got to say I can understand the wife being pissed. Last few days of vacation, husband insists on scheduling a meeting when he could spending time with wife and son, exorbitant since he's going to be away from home for 4 weeks. Then spends meeting making cutesy inside jokes.

 

Yes, even if I had no suspicions about an affair I would start off annoyed and, depending on how long the meeting lasted possibly end up fuming to enraged. There could be the mother of all rows afterwards, especially if I was ignored and made to feel uncomfortable, which All the insider jokes and subcontext could easily do.

[elaine567]

Fast forward 5 years, MM has left/been kicked out and you end up together. You are on a family holiday and MM drags you along to a "business meeting" with some woman who he is obviously sharing "in jokes" with... a woman he now does most of his travelling with... how "pissed off" would you be?

 

You need to get real here.

This is a guy who is happy to have a "road wife".

Many travelling guys cheat, it comes with the territory and I guess they are drawn to the "freedom" travelling gives them. Here, he doesn't have to pick up girls in hotel bars or hire escorts or maintain a second secret family, he happens to have a willing participant "on site" so to speak, i.e. you.

Once you are "the wife", he will I guess still be looking for "more" elsewhere.

Cheaters are not often looking for "everything in one package", they like to have two options, a wife at home and an OW on the side...

[Maddie82]

This guy is the classic unfaithful husband that claims his wife is unstable/horrible, just to keep his mistress interested. Many men have done this. There is very likely nothing wrong with his wife at all. He just wants to have his cake and eat it too. Walk away from this one. He's playing you.

[lana-banana]

The sheer brazenness of this dude is amazing. Most cheaters are terrified at the thought of their spouse meeting the AP, especially when the spouse already has suspicions. This guy practically introduces them. I'd bet ten bucks they got in the car and he said "See? That's her. I told you there's nothing going on between us." She probably rolled her eyes and counted down the hours to her spa appointment.

 

You are giving 100% of your time and your life to a guy who's giving you 5% of his - and he's told you that won't change. You can tell yourself all the lies in the world about how you're busy too and you don't really need people, but the bigger issue is why you don't think you deserve a relationship between equals.

[finna]

The meeting yesterday was by no means the first time I met BS, or she me. If you read the parts of this thread where I explain the history, you’ll see that MM and I were colleagues and friends for years before we went any further. We’ve all been to various events over the years including dinner at each other’s houses, etc.

 

Regarding his behavior during the meeting - he didn’t ignore her or do anything cutesy. He included her in the conversation, made sure she had a drink and snack, and they left as soon as it was time to check into their hotel- staying less than an hour.

 

I understand she still probably would have rather have been elsewhere but he did not treat her poorly or ignore her in any way. The other thing is that he is not “on vacation” this week- he is here to work and she chose to accompany him knowing this was the case.

[lana-banana]

Of course he was a perfect gentleman, a total prince, an absolute saint to his evil and hateful wife, etc. Of course. Why couldn't that woman just sit there and be satisfied while her husband chats with his mistress like it's no big deal? (Maybe she chose to accompany him because she suspects something is going on?)

 

Most OWs here have MM who insist they're about to leave at any moment. Meanwhile this guy literally told you that he is going to stay married, but will keep up the affair when it's convenient for him, and your reaction was "okay, sure". He must think he's hit the jackpot.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[sagamore]

.........I understand she still probably would have rather have been elsewhere but he did not treat her poorly or ignore her in any way. The other thing is that he is not “on vacation” this week- he is here to work and she chose to accompany him knowing this was the case.

 

A...I’m going to push on you here. He took her along to a meeting with his mistress and sent you a couple of “inside jokes,” however subtle, while she was there. This is after she has already raised suspicions about you. He’s treating her VERY poorly. But you can’t allow yourself to see that because it bursts your bubble about him and also dredges up the guilt you have inside you.

 

Here’s the kicker: he’s also now treating you very poorly. He sent you just enough cute messages to keep you on the line so that you’d be willing to submit to this awful meeting with his wife. Because unless you’re a sociopath, that meeting had to be uncomfortable on some level. He’s asking you to betray your values and come face to face with the woman who is occupying the place he knows you want. I know you don’t want to hear this, but this guy is very, very strategic in how he is playing things with you. He knows just the right amount of affection to dole out to keep you interested while also allowing him to minimize his own guilt.

 

If he truly loved you, he would choose you.

If he truly loved you, he would protect you from his wife until they can separate.

If he truly loved you, he would say, “you are precious and deserve more than being my affair. I love you but I cannot leave. I want you to be happy.”

 

What he is doing instead is hurting you AND his wife. He is playing you both. And make no mistake, while part of him feels guilty and is unhappy, part of him is getting off on having both his women at his beck and call. And why wouldn’t he? Both of you are desperate to keep him, and that type of devotion/adoration feels really good. It might be helping him stave off some of his own depression about his medical issues, or the state of his marriage, or just general life loneliness. But in the process he is hurting two women - and his child - terribly.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator