In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[pepperbird]

op,

I hate seeing how you are twisting your mind up in knots to justify his behavior. Come on, even you have to admit he was being a jerk.

 

 

Try taking a step back for a minute and look at what he did with a objective lens. Pretend she was your best friend, and he her husband who is cheating on her did what your mm did to his wife?

 

 

What excuses would you make for his behvaior? Would it still be okay?

 

I don't understand how you, someone who sounds like you are a very caring person, sit at a table with her , exchange pleasantries and know the whole time what you are doing to her. How could you look her in the face?

 

Your mm just showed you how low he will sink to get what he feels he is entitled to have...two women on a string he can make dance. You are a strong, capable independent woman who could attract someone who would treat her like gold. Why do you settle for someone who treats you like this?

[darkbloom]

Wow.

 

Bringing his wife to the meeting with you there is incredibly disrespectful. I know you’ve done dinner and met her before, but not probably while you were sleeping with her husband. I am cringing at this meeting and I wasn’t even there. The inside jokes in front of her- that is uncalled for and manipulative.

 

Op, there’s a small piece of you that knows this is wrong. That’s why you are on this board. The bigger side of you wants to justify this behavior away and defend him to the core. No man, no matter how good they make you feel, is worth enabling.

[Starswillshine]

I'm sure he got a huge boost from having both women there... and having you so hooked you stayed in your nest behavior. And when he calls again, you'll be the good little OW while he obviously sat in front of you AND colleagues with his wife.... his choice. He is telling you, SHOWING you to your face, who he chooses.

 

Those compliments? To keep you a good little OW and not make a problem for him and his BS.

[GraceAndJoy]

I agree with the posters above. It's one thing to lose feelings for your spouse. It's another thing altogether to be outright cruel to them.

 

When a person gets married, they vow (out of a deep sense of caring for the other's well-being) to "love, honor, and cherish all the days of my life." If things go wrong, they can depart gracefully. They should not subject the former love-of-their-life, recipient-of-love-honor-cherish, to abject cruelty.

 

What transpired in that coffee shop was extremely cruel on his part---to her now, if she knows about you, or in the future, when she finds out the meeting happened when the affair was in progress.

 

Just know, as you move forward hoping for a life with him, that he is capable of this level of cruelty.

[finna]

As far as I know she knows I’m divorced... it’s public on one of my social media profiles that I know she looks at. Not sure if there has been any discussion.

[darkbloom]

Also food for thought, the fact that he KNEW he could parade his wife in front of you with no consequences and no fear of you saying anything about your A should give you pause.

[finna]

.....he feels he is entitled to have...two women on a string he can make dance. You are a strong, capable independent woman who could attract someone who would treat her like gold. Why do you settle for someone who treats you like this?

 

Those are good questions and part of what I am trying to sort out in my head. Bad behavior is not cool - at this point I feel like I know too much and not enough. For the first question I would tell a best friend to ditch the guy and seek her own happiness first, and then find someone who will not lie or cheat.

 

For the second question - why I settle... all I can say is I am trying not to... I have very strong feelings that get in the way of being completely objective about it...

Edited July 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

Also food for thought, the fact that he KNEW he could parade his wife in front of you with no consequences and no fear of you saying anything about your A should give you pause.

 

Yes- it would have been totally inappropriate of me to say anything with their kid there... he does know I will not do that.

[pepperbird]

I would tell a best friend to ditch the guy and seek her own happiness first, and then find someone who will not lie or cheat.

 

 

 

I would gently suggest to you that you take your own advice. Be a friend to yourself.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Also food for thought, the fact that he KNEW he could parade his wife in front of you with no consequences and no fear of you saying anything about your A should give you pause.

 

Indeed!!!

[darkbloom]

Yes- it would have been totally inappropriate of me to say anything with their kid there... he does know I will not do that.

 

This. He engineered a situation that he KNOWS you will not speak up about. He has the upper hand and all the control.

 

You and the wife are both doormats to him right now. He is treating you both unfairly and you are allowing it. I hope this behavior is making you angry because it has me fired up. You deserve more than this.

[heartwhole2]

Please try to take a step back and stop viewing things from "This is him showing me he wants/loves me." Either he's really getting off on putting you two in the same place and seeing what he can get away with, or as I suspect, he meant to go to the business meeting alone but BW's spidey senses were going off so he brought her along to placate her. You should be viewing this as "When it comes to upsetting me or BW, he picks me."

[PhoenixRising8]

^^^THIS EXACTLY!!!

 

For a whole year, given a choice between me and BS, be it needs or feelings he chose me, except once just before we broke up in February. That should have been my clue not to reconcile in March because for the 6 weeks we were back together that continued to be the case. And that told me all I needed to know. I no longer believed he had true resolve to leave, despite his words. Your MM has told you he isn't leaving. Putting you face to face is just cruel yet you seem to want to continue. I don't know why you put him over yourself.

[elaine567]

I guess the OP by being "the secret" felt she got one over on the wife here.

She was having a "legitimate" business meeting with her MM, and the wife was the interloper.

The "in jokes" made her feel special and back on track.

 

THEY, she and he, were in this conspiracy together and that gives a feeling of power over the wife.

A wife who was the outsider, the one who had no business being there, the one who had no clue what was really going on, the one in the dark...

[finna]

I don’t feel like the meeting was a win for anybody. While I was glad to see MM after several weeks it was otherwise very awkward for me. He seemed a bit nervous as well and BS obviously wasn’t having any fun.

 

To be honest I’m not entirely sure why he wanted to stop by other than that he missed our colleague who is our frequent travel buddy and possibly me. He hadn’t seen our friend in two months since the last time the three of us were traveling together so they did some catching up.

 

I’ve thought about his motivation for several days now and haven’t come to any real conclusions other than the above. I don’t think he was consciously trying to do anything weird- other than maybe testing the waters to see the dynamic of BS and I in the same vicinity. As he is focusing on his family right now he may want to see how much he can have all of us together in the way that we used to before we got involved.

 

There have been no other plans made to get anyone together over the next five days before his family flies home, although my colleague and I may meet up with just MM to discuss more business for a few hours. Otherwise MM and family will likely be occupied with spending time with other local longtime friends/acquaintances that they have gotten to know over the years, as well as MM spending time with work.

[heartwhole2]

I’ve seen other OW discuss run-ins with the BW where their overriding emotion was mortification. Your ability to find yours hopeful and even flattering is odd to me, as is MM’s complete ease with being two-faced. I even read a scenario where the MM convinced the OW not to attend an event where the BW would be present and had her convinced it was a compliment because he couldn’t bear to “live a lie” and pretend not to be close to her. Sure, it wasn’t to save himself the stress, it was just him being selfless towards the woman he required to keep their relationship a secret.

 

Your MM demonstrates an alarming lack of compunction. Maybe you feel it’s ok because you do too, but empathy and honesty are very important in relationships. You’re both operating under the idea that what you do is OK because as far as BW is concerned, you are just coworkers. As for the affair, you’re too special for the rules to apply to you. That’s nice when it’s in your favor, but down the road in your “happily ever after,” woe to you when MM decides the rules don’t apply to him again. We know he has no problem looking people close to him in the face and lying.

[georgia girl]

Very gently, A, he made a fool of both of you but I will focus on your circumstances. In your case, he clearly outlined to your mutual friend that while he was fooling around with you, he was very much a married man. That put you in “second position “ in front of someone you work with everyday and whose respect you need as a colleague. In a way, that was a public shaming and I would be absolutely furious. This is downright mean.

 

He also made a fool of you in front of his wife, who suspects. He was clearly coming to the meeting with wife and child in tow to show her that you were not special to him and that he had nothing to hide.

 

I know that what I say above is hurtful and I am very sorry but you need to start clearly seeing this for what it is. It is NOT star-crossed lovers. This is instead a guy who cheated on his wife, was so infatuated with you and the excitement of the affair for awhile that he openly fantasized about a life with you but since then has dramatically pulled back. He brought his wife to the meeting because he’s playing by her rules now and she wants to be there. He is working hard to keep her. He may also he working to keep you but not by transitioning you into some future role as his open partner or wife. Instead, he likes the relationship he has with you when you are able to travel alone together. He gets to pretend and have a willing partner in a place far from home. No harm, no foul in his mind. Except there is you.

 

You love him. You want a full relationship and you were willing to sacrifice, end your marriage and work hard to make this work. Now he has to manage you. In business, there is a term called “feed them enough to keep them hungry.” It’s exactly what it means. Throw out enough to keep them coming back for more but set clear boundaries that more is not coming. That’s what he’s done masterfully to you. He has told you he won’t leave his wife but he also says he loves you. He brings her to a meeting but he makes time to be alone with you. He has you on a string.

 

The sad fact is that he is cheating you of real life everyday by doing this. And because you’re addicted to him, you don’t want to stop. But at some point, you have to face reality or waste years of your life. It’s just not worth it. We can all see that. You are literally the only one who does not.

 

This guy is not some tortured lost soul who married the wrong woman! They all seem to somehow adopt that persona so well. He is at best conflict avoidant and at worst, simply self-centered and mean. Regardless, he is definitely not who you sincerely believe he is. No guy worth his salt would do this to any woman. That’s just simply the truth. Real men don’t cheat. End of story.

[finna]

I’m not sure why you think I found the meeting to be hopeful or flattering - I don’t really think it was much about me at all. MM arrived and left with his family and it was quite painful for me to be in a space where it was clear I was not his choice.

[finna]

Silenced to whom about what? His BS?

Edited July 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote

[PhoenixRising8]

Asaysno, you started this thread June 2nd, just over a month ago. 84 pages and 1261 posts later, with all that has happened, I don’t see the anger or that you are any closer to making your first priority YOU. Frankly, I am angry FOR you that he is treating you with such disregard and disrespect. I am equally angry with YOU for making excuses and being nowhere near ending it. Everyone else sees where this is going but you. Do you really have to wait until you are devasted and damaged beyond repair? I have chosen some quotes made by you over the last few pages in an effort to show you the kind of mental gymnastics you are performing in order to keep this alive for the next 6 months at least:

“I also relate to the feeling of resentment of not being chosen; I can see where this would be what finally causes enough distaste to end the relationship.”

You haven’t been chosen, in a very obvious way, so why are you still intent on keeping it going? Where is that distaste?

“I saw him briefly but his family is was with him … It was a bit weird. His wife seemed totally pissed off to be there.

MM

gave both my colleague and I a hug …

 

He had been messaging me earlier in the day and during that time had said he might stop by … We chatted and shared funny content for a while and he offered several compliments ...

 

… but also have related inside jokes between him and I, which caught me slightly off guard.

 

So

nothing really conclusive at this point as there was not an opportunity for any private conversation.”

I have no doubt it was weird and awkward. Ask yourself these questions:

 

• Did he give you a heads-up BS would be coming? If not, why not? If he cared about anyone but HIMSELF, he would have prepared you. BS would have known but you likely received no such courtesy

• If his wife thought it was “just business”, why did she attend? You stated they had other long-term friends in the area. She could have easily joined them. Or gone shopping, or any number of other activities that did not include attending a business meeting

• What would he have to do to make it conclusive for you that there is no future, that he doesn’t respect you, that you are just the road toy?

“Regarding his behavior during the meeting - he didn’t ignore her or do anything cutesy. He included her in the conversation, made sure she had a drink and snack …

 

I understand she still probably would have rather have been elsewhere but he did not treat her poorly or ignore her in any way. The other thing is that he is not “on vacation” this week ...”

So he was tending to her needs and trying to ensure she was as comfortable a possible while in the presence of his AP. What did he do for you? He likely didn't even warn you she was coming so you could mentally prepare. If he did, you certainly didn't mention it in your recap of your messaging. And she could have been chosen to be anywhere else but a boring business meeting yet she chose to accompany HIM. There was purpose in that.

“Bad behavior is not cool - at this point I feel like I know too much and not enough.

 

… I would tell a best friend to ditch the guy and seek her own happiness first, and then find someone who will not lie or cheat.

 

For the second question - why I settle... all I can say is I am trying not to... I have very strong feelings that get in the way of being completely objective about it...”

You acknowledge bad behaviour is not cool but you are prepared to accept at least another 6 months of it? You would tell your best friend to ditch him but you won’t? You’re a business woman … do you make decisions based on feelings? If not, why are you doing it where your heart and future are concerned? Has it ever occurred to you what those people who you confide in or work with are actually thinking? I’d be willing to bet they’re thinking everything we are saying on this thread. You may very well be humiliating yourself without realizing it.

 

“I don’t feel like the meeting was a win for anybody. While I was glad to see MM after several weeks it was otherwise very awkward for me. He seemed a bit nervous as well and BS obviously wasn’t having any fun.

 

To be honest I’m not entirely sure why he wanted to stop by ...”

He had to have known it would be awkward for everyone, yet he did it anyway. I would suggest he got a lot of push back from BS, after telling her about the meeting. He couldn't very well back out after telling her without further arousing suspicion so to prove to HER there was nothing “special” about you, he capitulated to her insistence she tag along. Definitely doesn’t demonstrate one iota of concern or respect for your feelings or level of comfort. And if you think she didn’t pick up on the awkwardness and discomfort between you and her H, you’re kidding yourself.

“I’ve thought about his motivation for several days now and haven’t come to any real conclusions … I don’t think he was consciously trying to do anything weird- other than maybe testing the waters to see the dynamic of

BS

and I in the same vicinity ...”

What is the point of testing the waters to see the dynamic? I’d be much more inclined to think that what he was doing was sending you a message and that message is: “I told you I wanted to focus on my family but you won’t let go. I don’t want to be the bad guy to end it completely, after all, we do work together, so I’m doing things that will make you end it. That way I walk away unscathed.”

“

MM

arrived and left with his family and it was quite painful for me to be in a space where it was clear I was not his choice.”

It’s clear even to you that you aren’t his choice but you have yet to end it. Nothing more I can say …

Edited July 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Abetterme]

 

He also made a fool of you in front of his wife, who suspects. He was clearly coming to the meeting with wife and child in tow to show her that you were not special to him and that he had nothing to hide.

 

Yes, this was my exact impression of this meeting. He is trying to demonstrate to his wife that Aysaysno is not a threat. I was a BS in my previous marriage and my xH did this on multiple occasions with his AP. My spidery senses went crazy and he later explained just this rational for putting us in the same space. It is unbelievably hurtful to you both and I can’t believe you tolerate it.

[elaine567]

And she could have been chosen to be anywhere else but a boring business meeting yet she chose to accompany HIM.

 

Or he specifically asked her to be there.

[PhoenixRising8]

That too is possible, but if he asked her to accompany, there must have been a reason and I suspect it very well had to do with proving to her asaysno is not a threat and means nothing.

[PhoenixRising8]

In my earlier post I said "He likely didn't even warn you she was coming so you could mentally prepare." I"m actually thinking if he didn't warn you it was because he wanted to prove to her or set up the impression that it wasn't him that was interested or involved. It's you who wants him and he's trying to fend you off.

[heartwhole2]

I used the words hopeful and flattering because you mention things as though there is some explanation that involves him wanting you . . . he put you and BW in the same vicinity to test how she'd accept you as step-mother to their child? 99% of people would interpret this as him kowtowing to his wife and disregarding you, not him still considering choosing you. You are suffering from a strong case of confirmation bias.

 

We chatted and shared funny content for a while and he offered several compliments, which he hadn’t done in the last week or so while on holiday.

 

Anyway, during the brief visit we mostly talked business but he also brought up a couple of things that are business-related but also have related inside jokes between him and I, which caught me slightly off guard.

 

You're hanging onto compliments and jokes, as though these mean anything at all. It's difficult to read the way you describe things when you are unable to consider that he's being a cake-eating jerk.