In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Tristian]

Just a reminder while I set up my subscription to monitor this thread after reading through some of the replies.

 

 

 

Our civility and respect guidelines Do apply on the OM/OW board. I'm seeing a lot of familiar names that appear to have forgotten that.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Thank you HadMeOverABarrel. It's crass but it is a real thing and I can't apologize to OW for telling what is the truth of how many people really and truly think and act.

 

I do not speak for everyone, of course, but my former friends are well educated, open minded and lol, feminist.

It was a shocker.

 

I do appreciate that life is a journey and challenges are a given. I will not be a hypocrite, no person should throw a stone.

 

Asaysno is in the middle of herself, literally. Former OW will give her a flashlight so she can find her way out, maybe.

 

As a single lady I have lost friends because of other's insecurities and not at all because of anything I had done. For example, I lost my best friend in college after she married and they had their first child. I distinctly remember having a conversation with her husband about his work right in front of her. He was complaining about something and I commiserated with my own work story. That was enough to make her feel threatened and she promptly put fatal distance between what once was a really great friendship.

 

Another best friendship ended when, during divorcing her husband whom I was also strictly platonic friends with, I let it slip that he knew she bought a new car. She got mad so I clammed up like I shouldn't have said anything. Then she flipped out on me. Friendship was never the same after that. She later pulled me aside and yelled at me in a bar that I should have chosen her exclusively and not been friends with them both after the divorce started. Now I'm friends with neither.

 

Could tell more examples, but suffice it to say, I know what you went through.

 

There are lots of OW, betrayed spouses, and men who have experienced various roles on this thread trying to hand OP flashlights. If these proverbial flashlights were real, she'd be buried in them. Let's hope she will finally pick one up and use it. She is clearly a normally smart lady who is currently swimming in a sea of denial.

[heartwhole2]

Why would I do that? There’s a chance we may all get through this without her knowing and living through that.

 

Right now you are pinning your hopes on the fact that he broke up with you but isn't acting broken up. He's still texting the occasional sexy meme. He's still up for sex. The simplest explanation is that he enjoyed the affair and in those moments he thinks "Well, I already cheated on my wife." Or more likely, in those moments, he doesn't think at all.

 

I don't think there's much reason to think that a man who reversed course and told you he's not leaving and is focusing on his marriage is actually sending you messages that he wants to leave and be with you. He's just sending you messages that he likes having an affair with you.

 

The odds are much higher that there will be a DDay than that he will leave his marriage without confessing and you two will "develop a new relationship" after that.

[elaine567]

He's just sending you messages that he likes having an affair with you.

 

Truth. ^^^

He changed gears and is trying to reel you in again.

He went from potential relationship mode to affair mode in the course of 3 weeks. He dangled the relationship carrot, then withdrew it...

On your last tryst, he pulled you back in, then went back to business as usual, even blaming your f**ked up mindset. The push pull game many MM play feeds the addiction and it is the reason many women stay. The lows are so low, she becomes desperate for his attention, but the relief when he takes notice of her again gives her a fantastic high.

He is probably testing you to see if you are cut out to be his long term OW.

 

The push pull game.

He gets horny, he contacts you, he and you are physical, he feels guilty, he gets distant...

He gets horny, he contacts you, he and you are physical, he feels guilty, he gets distant...

He gets horny, he contacts you, he and you are physical, he feels guilty, he gets distant...

[finna]

So today he picked me up and we went to the office, worked, had lunch, worked, and then he dropped me off at the hotel and told me he would see me Thursday or Friday when he next goes to the office rather than another site. No “unprofessional” behavior other than he gave me a hug and quick kiss when he left... not platonic but no trying to go to the room or anything either. It was fine. We laughed, enjoyed each other’s company, and got business done.

[finna]

I mean that if he or I completely end it she may not have to know and they can move however they choose. I don’t agree that it is healthy for him to hide it but that’s not my business.

 

Right now you are pinning your hopes on the fact that he broke up with you but isn't acting broken up. He's still texting the occasional sexy meme. He's still up for sex. The simplest explanation is that he enjoyed the affair and in those moments he thinks "Well, I already cheated on my wife." Or more likely, in those moments, he doesn't think at all.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

So do the MMs in these cases have an addiction as well that they are feeding?

 

He is probably testing you to see if you are cut out to be his long term OW.

 

The push pull game.

Edited June 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

They may do, but usually they are in control and it is the OW that is lost.

[finna]

Just wondering why they keep going back to it as well when 90% is not about sex... we are LD more than half the time and when we are together that is not the primary focus.

[elaine567]

Your MM is not I guess "desperate" for sex, he has a wife after all...

[Starswillshine]

Just wondering why they keep going back to it as well when 90% is not about sex... we are LD more than half the time and when we are together that is not the primary focus.

 

Because when he is on the road and away from his wife, he can still have you there... road wife.

[finna]

Your MM is not I guess "desperate" for sex, he has a wife after all...

 

Interesting... and here all kinds of people were saying that’s all he wants... the various viewpoints are fascinating

[What_Did_I_Do]

Because they enjoy - and even crave - the ego boost you provide (and quite frankly, the OW enjoys it as well). And it's even better when you don't ask any uncomfortable questions...like when is he going to leave his wife, and nonsense like that.

 

He wants things chill, light and breezy. Then when your guards are done, maybe have some sex and then he'll pull away again. MM script? Check.

 

Affairs aren't primarily about sex. Sure, that's the end goal but it's a heap of fun leading up to that point. Until it isn't. Then the OW is drowning in misery and MM is wondering why you both just couldn't keep it fun, like it was in the beginning. Now you go and complicate it all by making certain demands. This is where MM decides to work on his M or can't leave because of the kids, financial, relatives, sick dog, etc.

[Starswillshine]

Interesting... and here all kinds of people were saying that’s all he wants... the various viewpoints are fascinating

 

I think most people agree that it isnt just sex they are after. It is the fantasy. The ego boost. The attention. Making him feel like a stud. I mean think about it, he has a woman who is willing to wait around on him....

 

It isnt because he cares about you, it is because he cares about how you make him feel about himself.

 

Most OW get themself in this trap. "He isnt just about sex, so he must really love me."

[BaileyB]

The man who sets up “house” and lives a double life with another woman is not only in it for the sex...

[heartwhole2]

Just wondering why they keep going back to it as well when 90% is not about sex... we are LD more than half the time and when we are together that is not the primary focus.

 

My husband's AP was 7,000 miles away so we have you beat. So I get it. Surely he was serious if he invested in a relationship that was so complicated?

 

The answer is that they are in love with how the affair makes them feel. The affair partner mirrors back "You are amazing! You are desirable! You are sexy!" Who wouldn't want to feel that way?

 

But it's not based on selfless love, enduring love. It's based on selfish love. I've shared some anecdotes about my husband in this thread in the hopes that it would give you insight into how a man could go from "The OW and I have feelings for each other, obviously" to "This is crazy, I don't even know her that well" to "I can't believe I don't miss her more! I thought this would be harder!" in the span of three weeks. This sure as hell was not real love, but on DDay did he believe his feelings were real and solid? Yes. They just went Poof! when the secrecy and fantasy of the affair was punctured by reality.

 

I didn't realize how insecure my husband was. So when someone he would have wanted to date when he was single came along and said through her actions, "OMG you are the most amazing thing, I will do anything for a few moments with you" he was like YES PLEASE. You can read up on all the hormones involved when we fall in love, have sex, etc. You get a chemical high from your affair and you want that repeated, yes. I do believe it becomes a vicious cycle . . . your guilt and cognitive dissonance at home grows, so you want that escape that the affair brings, and the cycle repeats.

[Overtaxed]

Most OW get themself in this trap. "He isnt just about sex, so he must really love me."

 

From my experience, most OW are terribly mistaken. I know my share of male APs, and those guys are mostly serials. Let me tell you, when it's "just guys" the truth of it comes out. It's sex. Almost without question, it's sex that drives these men to do what they do. Stop having sex, see how long the relationship lasts. Nothing physical until he leaves his W. That'll bring the vast majority of affairs to a screeching halt. Yes, it's sometimes "more than sex" just like a good dinner is "more than steak". But no steak, no dinner.

 

I'm getting up in years, and, I can tell you from countless conversations with men, I can't recall a single man ever saying "I wish my W got me better emotionally" or "I wish she paid more attention to me". Ever. And yet, you hear that time and time again as part/parcel of typical male AP talk. What I DO hear is endless commentary on "lack of sex" or "lack of good sex" or just "I wanna f**k someone new". It's never this emotional thing that always seems to get discussed between the AP and WW, it's a simple conversation about who's the most likely to "put out" and how to go from point A-B.

 

Your welcome to believe it's love. I suggest you don't, because you're probably wrong, but, if it helps you move through it and get out the other side, by all means. But it's probably not. In my personal life, I've known plenty of male AP's and exactly 0 of them has ever wound up dating their A partners after D. The vast majority of them don't get caught. Those that do, almost all R. Those that do D, often go searching for someone new (other than the AP) because now, suddenly, they have a LOT more options. If there are 20 women who will sleep with me at the bar, only 1-2 of those women will agree to be an AP. Well, if I D tomorrow, the other 19 women are now open game.

[finna]

Heartwhole-

 

This is a good explanation - thank you.

Edited June 4, 2019 by asaysno
Fix

[Orokotikki]

It is all he wants, but he isn't desperate for it, he need only give you breadcrumbs to string you along and jerk you back in line with his puppet strings and cheap words.

[S2B]

Just wondering why they keep going back to it as well when 90% is not about sex... we are LD more than half the time and when we are together that is not the primary focus.

 

Because they can. And because he knows you’ll say yes when he approaches.

 

It feeds his selfish ego.

[S2B]

Why would I do that? There’s a chance we may all get through this without her knowing and living through that.

 

How would you get through it? Only by YOU ending it!

 

Think about it - he gets steaks AND lobster! If he only could choose one - he would choose the woman that is going to bring him the least strife - and that’s his wife.

 

If he chooses you he’s got to go through hell to have you.

 

A conflict avoider isn’t gonna go through hell when he can just go back to his “easy life that makes him look good”.

 

You will have to be the one that ends it if it’s going to end without her knowing.

[LivingWaterPlease]

It's the game; recreation.

 

Like golf or fishing (and other recreational pursuits) affairs entail preparation (setting up) for the game. Choosing the right iron, or fishing pole, bait, etc. That's all part of the enjoyment of the game, the anticipation one feels while preparing for the actual sport.

 

That's what all the conversation and sharing that includes 90% is about.

 

Your latest update shared that he's acting with a little more restraint in that after taking you home from the office he hugged you and gave you a quick kiss.

 

That quick kiss serves to keep you on the string whilst he possibly tells himself he's refraining from poor behavior. However, whether he realizes it or not, that quick kiss was foreplay. Even if he plans on no follow-up (which he may very well have decided), the hug and quick kiss was crossing a boundary.

 

What did you do with the hug and quick kiss?

 

It was an opportunity for you to show some wisdom, dignity, strength and self-respect by not accepting this poor treatment of you.

 

Why not plan in advance for the next time he crosses a boundary to reject it?

 

As women when we're interested in a man we often plan ahead as to what we'll wear when we see him; how we'll fix our hair and makeup, to appear attractive.

 

Do you know the thing that you can do now to appear most attractive to him? It is to plan ahead to reject his advances, no matter how tiny they may be.

 

However, that shouldn't be the motivation for rejecting his advances. The motivation should be your own well-being and emotional health. Years from now when you look back on this you will feel so good about drawing boundaries with him if you do so. About showing him you realize your worth and won't be taken advantage of any more.

 

I'm editing this to add: And you will feel so good about how you've decided to change the way you're treating his wife, a woman you're stealing from. It is in your power to change your course and protect an innocent person. One day, someone may do the same for you. Someone may decide not to try to engage with the man you marry one day. Or they may not.

Edited June 4, 2019 by LivingWaterPlease

[heartwhole2]

You started this thread two days ago, but I'm sure it feels like much longer with the hard and pointed questions and generally negative prognosticating you've received.

 

Two days ago you said you an unshakable feeling and intuition that the two of you would wind up together. Is this feeling holding up to the questions we've been asking?

 

Rereading your first post, I have to say that it seems you've been downgraded from "girlfriend" to "FWB." And you are hoping that the fact that he still wants to be FWB with you means that he also wants you to be his girlfriend, and in order to make that happen, he will get divorced. There is a whole world of difference between "I'm attracted to you, I have affection for you, sure let's have some more sex" and "I'm going to build a life-long relationship with you after divorcing the mother of my child." Don't conflate the two.

 

Even if he had never flip-flopped, even if you had a solid plan, even if he was promising on the life of his child that he was going to file for divorce on X date, we would still tell you to be cautious. This story has played out so, so many times. An unfortunate byproduct of the average affair is the completely broken heart of the OW.

 

I hope you can take your power back. Go NC not because he asked you to, but because you know you deserve better. If he can become an honest man with the ability to navigate conflict in a healthy way, great. He can get in touch a year or so when he's divorced and more in tune with who he is. If you find yourself thinking, "But if I don't stick with him he'll never leave her! But if I don't stay close he might date someone else!" then that's not intuition. That's being controlled by your fear.

[Aloha123]

I have to say, I am "liking" almost every single response to this thread. If ever there was a thread to explain the anatomy/etiology of an affair, from the MM's perspective as well as the OW's, it is this one. It should almost be pinned as a primer on "the affair script - read this first"

[finna]

 

Two days ago you said you an unshakable feeling and intuition that the two of you would wind up together. Is this feeling holding up to the questions we've been asking?

 

It actually is. I’m at peace with the longterm outcome... what happens in between may continue to be challenging.

 

I hope you can take your power back. Go NC not because he asked you to, but because you know you deserve better. If he can become an honest man with the ability to navigate conflict in a healthy way, great. He can get in touch a year or so when he's divorced and more in tune with who he is. If you find yourself thinking, "But if I don't stick with him he'll never leave her! But if I don't stay close he might date someone else!" then that's not intuition. That's being controlled by your fear.

 

I decided after I made the mistakes of being fearful and getting too clingy a month ago that I wasn’t doing that again. I refuse to live in fear and try to take a zen approach to the challenges of the day.