In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Starswillshine]

This is true. So never leave yourself waiting for any man to decide your future.

 

He will use you for as long as you keep letting him...

 

Because he really wants both women - but he’s not gonna tell you that.

 

Yes!!!! He wants both. While his wife is in the dark, and you are waiting around, he will keep you both using whatever means he can. He will promise the moon and the stars. Promise it is real this time. And never follow through.

 

This same advice is giving to BSs, too. I had a DDay. I came to these boards. I have the same discussions. He swore he was done, he was a change man. The people insisted the signs were still there. I knew better. I knew him. This is different. Nope, they were all right. He wanted both of us and he was going to continue.

 

Now he has neither of us. I left him, and he hates his OW (allegedly, who knows what he is doing now, and she has no problems being a side piece).

[finna]

It’s interesting you think of it as a timing issue to a certain extent. I think that’s true in this case as well- if the wife school thing were not a factor I think there is a good chance MM would have left several months ago. It’s interesting though because the communication we are having now is starting to feel like we are back in December at the beginning of our relationship - discussing things that allow us to get to know each other better/deeper as well as vulnerabilities- both platonic and non-platonic.

 

At that time he was not yet professing his love, although certainly his affection. That’s ramping back up in the same manner now and I’ll be interested to see where it goes in the next few days. I will call him on it directly if it doesn’t come out in discussion otherwise. I want to find out if this is just a different kind of compartmentalization or if he is behaving cyclically with all the caveats that come with that.

[BaileyB]

Well, it sounds like he has made his decision and he has been pulling back. But, it also sounds like he is testing the waters with you - to see if you will be amenable to your new role. So far, you have given him no indication that you will not be accepting of the role of OW... which means, he is likely to “ramp it back up,” assuming that you are aware that he has chosen to stay with his family and agreeable to the new terms.

[PhoenixRising8]

It’s interesting you think of it as a timing issue to a certain extent. I think that’s true in this case as well- if the wife school thing were not a factor I think there is a good chance MM would have left several months ago. It’s interesting though because the communication we are having now is starting to feel like we are back in December at the beginning of our relationship - discussing things that allow us to get to know each other better/deeper as well as vulnerabilities- both platonic and non-platonic

 

If he would have left but for the school, he would do so now but he’s back pedalling. You miss my point about timing. It isn’t about him and his circumstances. It’s about how and when you take control.

[S2B]

It’s interesting you think of it as a timing issue to a certain extent. I think that’s true in this case as well- if the wife school thing were not a factor I think there is a good chance MM would have left several months ago. It’s interesting though because the communication we are having now is starting to feel like we are back in December at the beginning of our relationship - discussing things that allow us to get to know each other better/deeper as well as vulnerabilities- both platonic and non-platonic.

 

At that time he was not yet professing his love, although certainly his affection. That’s ramping back up in the same manner now and I’ll be interested to see where it goes in the next few days. I will call him on it directly if it doesn’t come out in discussion otherwise. I want to find out if this is just a different kind of compartmentalization or if he is behaving cyclically with all the caveats that come with that.

 

Well this is predictable.... because he’s thinking you were more business and he’s got to reel you back in - and he will - as long as you participate.

 

Did you make the appt yet with the therapist? You need to learn how to have a healthy boundary and what that looks like for YOU!

 

It’s designed to help you help yourself.

 

When is the appointment? It can’t be soon enough.

[BaileyB]

If he would have left but for the school, he would do so now but he’s back pedalling. You miss my point about timing. It isn’t about him and his circumstances. It’s about how and when you take control.

 

Indeed. There will always be something - his wife needs to finish school, they have a holiday planned, his son is having a difficult time in school, and then Christmas... weeks turn into months, and months turn into years...

 

And if he does actually leave and set up house with you, you will live with the fear that he could go back to his family each and every day...

[heartwhole2]

It's easy to imagine that you will have the momentum or money or courage to do something six months from now. That doesn't mean you will actually have any of those things. I'm sure he thought he would want to follow through once the circumstances were different, but then he decided he didn't.

 

I give him some credit for telling you outright that he was breaking up with you and focusing on his marriage. Most MM just keep moving the goal posts.

 

Imagine that you are setting a six month deadline for seeing where this affair goes. In six months if he's still not separated, you'll end it. That's all well and good to say now, but six months from now you might be even more invested, not less. In fact, you'll probably be a victim of the sunk cost fallacy by that point, and you will think, at this point I've spent over a year, what if I'm this close to him choosing me?

[PhoenixRising8]

@ Bailey & SB2 - did you ever think that you would be quoting me and agreeing with me? I'm thinking no lol.

 

Asaysno, you are me a few months ago. Despite what anyone says, you find another rationalization for him, a different interpretation from the common wisdom, and there is a lot of it here. Just know, you didn't come to this forum because you think it will all work out honky dory. At the very least, subconsciously, you know it won't.

[BaileyB]

@ Bailey & SB2 - did you ever think that you would be quoting me and agreeing with me? I'm thinking no lol.

 

Lol. No.

 

Kat, for the record I always thought you were a smart, strong woman. That was why it was unbelievably frustrating to watch you dismiss advice, make excuses for your MM, and attempt to justify the unjustifiable. You have come a long way, and now you are paying it forward and attempting to help other woman which is AMAZING to see!! You are the voice of experience, the voice of wisdom. Your voice is important here and I’m glad you stayed.

Edited June 5, 2019 by BaileyB

[PhoenixRising8]

Thank you for your kind words Bailey, now and your many words of wisdom previously.

 

They say that weaknesses are often no more than overdone strengths. One of my strengths is that I never give up and am loyal to a fault. That's also my greatest weakness because I think if I'm just a little stronger, a little more understanding and remain loyal, I will prevail. I did it with xH and most recently with xMM. I fought long after I should have been strong enough to walk away.

 

Asaysno, don't let your strengths become your weakness. Just think of what you are gaining: a man who has proven he can lie, cheat and manipulate. He avoids conflict and doesn't communicate. That was my xMM's problem in his marriage but he was always open and communicative with me, until he wasn't. For him to be different in a new relationship he would have to make a conscious effort to change his avoidance of conflict and learn to address his issues in a mature adult manner. That takes work and most likely therapy. Is he going to do it for you if he didn't for the woman he married? Not likely.

 

Yes, some men leave. I'd be willing to bet they aren't nearly as conflict avoidant and closed as ours are. Those that are conflict avoidant drag this out until one of the OW or BS finally have enough. Do you really want him by default?

[Mrin]

I do want to give asaysno some credit for coming here all of three days ago. I don't think there's a person on this board who let go of a dream that they had invested heavily in within three days. She hasn't heard much of what she wanted to hear, but she's returned and been open to outside perspectives.

 

Yeah I totally agree. She's taken quite a few broadsides and dealt with them with grace. She hasn't heard much of what I think she was hoping to hear but I think she has heard a lot of things she needed to.

[Turning point]

You do take a bitter view. My son has always requested and enjoyed alternative education opportunities and loves traveling and experiencing different cultures, etc. He easily makes friends wherever he goes and picks up new languages with amazing ease. If this future were to happen it would solidify many benefits that we have been working towards (and will continue to do so) regardless of my relationship.

 

I take the most realistic view based on the evidence. This is not your son speaking - it is you speaking for him and there is no way to know if he has ever really had any choice. He only knows what he has experienced and his experiences are largely decided by the parents.

 

My ex speaks all the time about what my daughter "requests and enjoys" but, a lot of it is blatant lies. Her mother is an extremely controlling person. Your preoccupation with MM and his choices appear to have been placed clearly ahead of your son's nest interest. son. I'd refer you back to the poster would commented that had her boyfriend taken a promotion 500 miles away - that relationship would have ended.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Turning point

[S2B]

@ Bailey & SB2 - did you ever think that you would be quoting me and agreeing with me? I'm thinking no lol.

 

Asaysno, you are me a few months ago. Despite what anyone says, you find another rationalization for him, a different interpretation from the common wisdom, and there is a lot of it here. Just know, you didn't come to this forum because you think it will all work out honky dory. At the very least, subconsciously, you know it won't.

 

No! But I’m really proud of you for becoming strong!!

[S2B]

If you had a daughter is this what you would encourage her to aspire for/to?

 

Or even your best girlfriend?

[SpiceCat]

@ Bailey & SB2 - did you ever think that you would be quoting me and agreeing with me? I'm thinking no lol.

 

Asaysno, you are me a few months ago. Despite what anyone says, you find another rationalization for him, a different interpretation from the common wisdom, and there is a lot of it here. Just know, you didn't come to this forum because you think it will all work out honky dory. At the very least, subconsciously, you know it won't.

 

And me 3 years ago..welcome to the club sister. Congrats on getting out of it alive!

 

Not sure if this gives you hope or not but my (SINGLE) boyfriend and I are moving in together this weekend. It gets better!

[PhoenixRising8]

And me 3 years ago..welcome to the club sister. Congrats on getting out of it alive!

 

Not sure if this gives you hope or not but my (SINGLE) boyfriend and I are moving in together this weekend. It gets better!

 

Thanks SpiceCat no offence but it’s a club in retrospect I’d prefer I didn’t belong to lol. Not sure how alive I am just yet but getting there. Congratulations on the new, healthier relationship. Gives me hope

[HadMeOverABarrel]

And me 3 years ago..welcome to the club sister. Congrats on getting out of it alive!

 

Not sure if this gives you hope or not but my (SINGLE) boyfriend and I are moving in together this weekend. It gets better!

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!:love:

[finna]

If you had a daughter is this what you would encourage her to aspire for/to?

 

Or even your best girlfriend?

 

Specifically to be engaged in an affair? No. However I do encourage people to follow their heart and find their own happiness.

[S2B]

I would say if you can continue on knowing full well you will ONLY be his OW and nothing more important to him than that - while having very low expectations from him - you may be able to do this affair.

 

If you expect anything more from him than that - you will be disappointed in yourself for wasting time with someone who pretends to care.

 

Be realistic. And have no expectations. And hope no one loses their job.

[VSgirl]

OP,

What I say to you comes from my heart. You seem like a very nice woman and you genuinely care about this man, I understand that. But I hope you consider the advice of others here and what I am about to say to you. From your posts, I realize you and this man have a bond. Chemistry. A friendship. I can tell you it would be hard to let go of and in his own twisted way the man probably cares for you. But that shouldn't be enough for you.

 

The man is lying to his wife. He isn't divorced, he is cheating. His wife could be a terrible person, but you don't know because you don't really know her. Lying destroys relationships. Even if this man left her for you, how could you ever trust him to be faithful and honest to you? He seems weak..a strong man would leave a relationship if it wasn't working out. I am not in a relationship with a married man, but leaving that part out of it, he repeatedly lies to you and probably her. He is also very selfish. Life is too short to be with someone who has no considerations for your feelings. He is up and down back and forth..and it is all about him, even if he is "there for you" during select moments.

 

Actions speak louder than words. I don't believe this man is showing he cares with his actions or that a relationship with just you is what he wants. You mentioned you have a child as well..you don't want him to grow up with a stepdad figure and think this kind of behavior is okay. It's one thing for things not to work out with your ex...he may not be the right person for you, but this guy isn't probably either. If he truly has that many issues he needs a counselor or some kind of professional help! Believe in yourself that you deserve better!

 

I am also coming from a place of heartbreak very recently (not a MM but a breakup with someone who I loved very much). I am evaluating myself as well as the relationship and struggling to let go. So please don't think I am trying to judge you. Just know you can care about someone so much but they can be bad for you. I don't want to see someone destroy your self confidence or ruin your faith in finding a loving relationship.

Edited June 6, 2019 by VSgirl
additional info

[finna]

Thank you for your heartfelt words. This would all be a lot easier if it weren’t for feelings.

[elaine567]

So he planned to file for divorce in June when his wife left school yet there was a long planned family vacation booked into July, so how was that really going to play out?

I am sure you were/are hoping he would have ended it asap so that his "happy family" holiday was postponed/cancelled

However if you stick around you are going to have to get used to all of that.

[BaileyB]

Specifically to be engaged in an affair? No. However I do encourage people to follow their heart and find their own happiness.

 

Yeah, but are you actually happy? And, do you have the right to find your happiness at someone else’s expense?

[Starswillshine]

This man has shown you who he is. He is a cheater. He isnt one that fell in love and left his wife because he is unable to be with 2 women, he is one that likes to have both and will continue to have both as long as the situations allow.

 

Let's just say eventually, his marriage falls apart. Do you want to spend years of your life with this man only to find out, again, he is the man he has shown you? He cheats on you.... after you have spent years with him, built a life with him, shared your world with him. I know right now, it feels that is all you want, but realize this isnt a good investment. Get out while you can. Or be like I was... nearly stuck. 4 kids. 20 years.... now THAT is hard to get out of. Especially given I was a SAHM. But I saw the writing on the wall. I knew this OW would go and there would be others. As much begging and pleading that he was a different man now, I knew there was no way to ever trust that. And I knew this was who he was. He would never be satisfied with one woman. And he no desire to be satisfied with just one woman.

[finna]

So he planned to file for divorce in June when his wife left school yet there was a long planned family vacation booked into July, so how was that really going to play out?

I am sure you were/are hoping he would have ended it asap so that his "happy family" holiday was postponed/cancelled

However if you stick around you are going to have to get used to all of that.

 

Yes- it is with extended family so if he had stuck to the timeline not necessarily everyone would have gone. It is certainly a consideration regarding priorities when it comes to things like vacations.