In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[PhoenixRising8]

You are correct Aloha. Many of his reasons are valid considerations which is why I hung in there for 6 months after his first attempt. The last one was what broke it because it broke my faith that he ever would leave. In the end, if the marriage were that intolerable, the last point wouldn't be a factor. There's a big part of me that still believes that he intended to leave but had only a wishbone where his backbone should have been. Typical conflict avoider. This could have gone on for years. It was way to stressful and the pain was not worth the joy.

[finna]

Yes - this is what it comes down to- will a MM *act* with intention? I know that many do not, even if they say a lot of things. In my situation- we shall see. I know this group thinks not... I can tell there is a hell of a lot of conflict in his mind right now, and whether he moves on one way or another or just compartmentalizes differently remains to be seen.

[Starswillshine]

Yes - this is what it comes down to- will a MM *act* with intention? I know that many do not, even if they say a lot of things. In my situation- we shall see. I know this group thinks not... I can tell there is a hell of a lot of conflict in his mind right now, and whether he moves on one way or another or just compartmentalizes differently remains to be seen.

 

His conflict.... how do I keep her on the line when I promised her I am going to leave? His conflict is how does he keep both.

[BTDT2012]

The same scenario keeps repeating. MM and MW begin affair. MW divorces, begins to pressure man to do the same. Married man has 'reasons' why he can't do the same. This continues until someone forces a decision.

[lana-banana]

Serious question: why would he act? He has everything he wants. Why would he change this situation?

 

Normal, healthy relationships involve equal partners moving towards goals together, and finding compromises when things don't work. Right now you can't do that. You are frozen in time waiting for him to do something. Your entire relationship depends on his choices, his needs, his desires. As Elaine put it, "you're on a knife's edge and he's on a comfy couch". How much longer are you going to accept a relationship that's so powerless?

[Starswillshine]

Also add in there.... "How do I keep her happy enough she does not get pissed and tell my wife." MM always have to worry about that possibility. You have th power to destroy his world. So he has to keep you happy enough to not do so. Even when they no longer want the OW, they have to be careful and do an easy let down or run that risk.

[finna]

His conflict.... how do I keep her on the line when I promised her I am going to leave? His conflict is how does he keep both.

 

Could be- I know he is in a weird place right now... has feelings and wants to spend time with me; feels obligations, feelings, and guilt about his family; has made and likely broken promises to both... doesn’t want to disappoint anyone but is struggling to find his path.

 

For him supposedly having all the power, because he is a “pleaser” I think he is internally feeling a bit helpless. I know that may not last long but in some ways that is hard to watch- both because the struggle is difficult and because if he cared less about making everybody happy he might be stronger at making assertive decisions.

[finna]

Serious question: why would he act? He has everything he wants. Why would he change this situation?

 

Normal, healthy relationships involve equal partners moving towards goals together, and finding compromises when things don't work. Right now you can't do that. You are frozen in time waiting for him to do something. Your entire relationship depends on his choices, his needs, his desires. As Elaine put it, "you're on a knife's edge and he's on a comfy couch". How much longer are you going to accept a relationship that's so powerless?

 

He doesn’t quite have everything he wants- he would rather be in an uncomplicated relationship because it’s way less stress. He would like to see more of me and can’t now due to LD. He would like to fight less with his wife. He wants to be able to do the kinds of activities that he and I do together and she can’t or won’t, e.g camping. He wants to see his kid more often. He world is far from perfect.

[BaileyB]

For him supposedly having all the power, I think he is internally feeling a bit helpless. I know that may not last long but in some ways that is hard to watch- both because the struggle is difficult and because if he cared less about making everybody happy....

 

Boy, does he ever have you snowed. This man is cheating on his wife, he is using you at his convenience, and you somehow believe that he is the helpless victim...

 

I will say the same to you that’s i said to Kat - if you spent half as much time worrying about you that you spend thinking about and analyzing his behaviour, you would be in a much better place.

[BaileyB]

He doesn’t quite have everything he wants- he would rather be in an uncomplicated relationship because it’s way less stress. He would like to see more of me and can’t now due to LD. He would like to fight less with his wife. He wants to be able to do the kinds of activities that he and I do together and she can’t or won’t, e.g camping. He wants to see his kid more often. He world is far from perfect.

 

What was that Rolling Stones song, “you can’t always get what you want...”

 

Nobody gets everything they want. He’s unhappy in his marriage because his wife won’t give him everything he wants. So, he goes and finds what he wants with another woman, but then he can’t spend all his time with her.. because he has to go home to his wife. Poor man.

 

You just have no idea how utterly ridiculous this sounds, do you?

[finna]

Boy, does he ever have you snowed. This man is cheating on his wife, he is using you at his convenience, and you somehow believe that he is the helpless victim...

 

I will say the same to you that’s i said to Kat - if you spent half as much time worrying about you that you spend thinking about and analyzing his behaviour, you would be in a much better place.

 

I don’t believe he is helpless - far from it. I believe he sometimes feels helpless. Nor do I think he is a victim- he has made many choices he has to own... however, I don’t think he is happy or has everything he wants as people are stating.

[PhoenixRising8]

Yes - this is what it comes down to- will a MM *act* with intention? I know that many do not, even if they say a lot of things. In my situation- we shall see. I know this group thinks not... I can tell there is a hell of a lot of conflict in his mind right now, and whether he moves on one way or another or just compartmentalizes differently remains to be seen.

 

Not meaning to sound harsh but mine sort of met his first deadline when he told his wife and adult children he wanted a separation on a number of occasions over a period of weeks and started behaving in a way no man who didn't want to tick off his wife would; yours broke up with you weeks before the deadline. Mine didn't leave but yours might?

 

You are betting on a horse with seemingly lower odds than mine. Don't be surprised when he doesn't cross the finish line.

[finna]

I’m not betting on anything... just sharing my observations. If he wasn’t conflicted about his path there would never have been a relationship with me to begin with, or when he broke it off he would have kept it that way, etc. I’m not using that as “evidence” he will end up with me.

[PhoenixRising8]

So you reconciled then? Back to the same as 3 weeks ago?

[elaine567]

People who can make assertive decisions rarely get into such messes as even if he wants both, he tells the OW pretty sharpish he ain't leaving, so she can accept that or get out. If she won't accept it, he just finds someone who will.

If he just wants one woman then he makes a decision and either dumps the wife or tells the OW to get lost. NO messing around.

 

This "Will I, won't I?" is typical weak, indecisive, conflict avoidant, cake eating behaviour from guys who are scared to move in case they make the wrong decision and flatten the whole house of cards.

He promises, he breaks promises, he throws guilt and pity parties, he is "confused" and conflicted", he pushes, he pulls, he is continually covering his tracks, he ducks and dives, he lies, he manipulates - all in an attempt to keep both women on board.

He can't tell the real truth to either woman as the game would be up then.

[Starswillshine]

I’m not betting on anything... just sharing my observations. If he wasn’t conflicted about his path there would never have been a relationship with me to begin with, or when he broke it off he would have kept it that way, etc. I’m not using that as “evidence” he will end up with me.

 

You don't get it. He still wants you. He just wont leave his wife. So as long as you are ok with being the quiet secret, great. Just dont give him pressure and resign yourself to being his dirty little secret. His road wife.

[heartwhole2]

I’m not betting on anything... just sharing my observations. If he wasn’t conflicted about his path there would never have been a relationship with me to begin with, or when he broke it off he would have kept it that way, etc. I’m not using that as “evidence” he will end up with me.

 

MM don't have affairs because they're unsure if they want their current life. They have affairs because they have underdeveloped self-awareness, maturity, empathy, and boundaries.

 

Dr. Shirley Glass, the late affair researcher, talked about the difference in affairs for MW and MM. MW in affairs score much lower in marital happiness than MM in affairs. MW have tried for years and are already checked out when they begin an affair. They're sure they want to exit the marriage, and finding a more desirable mate who expresses interest in them is a great catalyst to do so.

 

(Of course, I hate being so binary in my description of gender identity and gender roles within marriage. These are simply patterns; there are always exceptions.)

 

For MM it's simpler: entitlement and/or immaturity. My wife didn't make me happy! So having another woman is OK!

[elaine567]

I’m not betting on anything... just sharing my observations. If he wasn’t conflicted about his path there would never have been a relationship with me to begin with, or when he broke it off he would have kept it that way, etc. I’m not using that as “evidence” he will end up with me.

 

You are still thinking monogamously.

 

He decides he wants you, he leaves his wife, you ride off into the sunset together.

 

But here, he decides he wants you, his job is then to persuade you to stick around. You and he would ride off into the sunset together, but he wants to keep you hidden away just in case his wife sees you...

[finna]

So you reconciled then? Back to the same as 3 weeks ago?

 

I wouldn’t say back to the same exactly. He is not talking about plans for separating or a timeline like he was before (although we certainly did not talk about that all the time before either), but we haven’t yet had the opportunity to have an in person “where is your head” discussion about intentions- probably in a couple of days.

 

He has spent significant phone and chat time with me the last several days - several hours each day - talking about the things he wants to do together and discussing what we value about each other and our relationship. This morning he came by very early and we spent some time together before going to work, and then had lunch and drove around before he left to get his kid from school. He was loving and affectionate with his actions, and we enjoyed the time very much.

 

So... he’s definitely not “done” or he would not have shown up this morning nor would he be spending all the time sharing via text, etc. When I get a solid block of time with him in a few days we will discuss in person where we are both at and where to go from here.

[Orokotikki]

Prayer's for his BW, this will probably destroy her eventually, and will certainly change her life forever and for the worse, I hope you spare a few words and moments for her when you meet with your precious MM next for 'fun'.

[BaileyB]

He has spent significant phone and chat time with me the last several days - several hours each day - talking about the things he wants to do together and discussing what we value about each other and our relationship. He was loving and affectionate with his actions, and we enjoyed the time very much.

 

So... he’s definitely not “done” or he would not have shown up this morning nor would he be spending all the time sharing via text, etc. When I get a solid block of time with him in a few days we will discuss in person where we are both at and where to go from here.

 

In other words, he is feeling more confident that you have accepted the new terms of the relationship. Things are going back to “normal,” it will be interesting to see what happens when you have that discussion about where to go from here...

 

Again, you are thinking monogamously (as Elaine so accurately put it). No, he is definitely not done enjoying your relationship. But, he has given no indication that he plans to change anything...

[finna]

Yes - we probably all need all the help we can get. Who knows- maybe in the end they will have a stronger marriage or maybe she will find someone who meets all her needs.

[finna]

In other words, he is feeling more confident that you have accepted the new terms of the relationship. Things are going back to “normal,” it will be interesting to see what happens when you have that discussion about where to go from here...

 

Yes - I think I will learn much.

 

Again, you are thinking monogamously (as Elaine so accurately put it). No, he is definitely not done enjoying your relationship. But, he has given no indication that he plans to change anything...

 

I do think monogamously - it’s how I’m wired as weird as that sounds in this context.

[Starswillshine]

Do you really think you can have this supposed discussion and trust what he is saying?

 

All you have is his actions. And his actions are showing and proving that he indeed wants to stay married. He wants some action on the side. It is really sad that his wife isnt getting a say so in her marriage and if this is a situation she wants to be in. You have it. I wont get into the morality of it. But I'm sure you can figure out where most people fall on this.

 

Every day he wakes up and tells his wife he loves her. He lies to her everyday. And yet you believe you can have this face to face conversation and he will be truthful? That his words wont be further manipulation of you?

 

Let me guess, you believe you know him so well that you can tell when he is lying? Yeah, dont count on it.

[Zona]

MW in affairs score much lower in marital happiness than MM in affairs.

 

Dr. Glass certainly was certainly an expert in infidelity, but the field has made some progress since her untimely passing. I do think that in a lot of cases the marital unhappiness that MW express is part of the justification for cheating and branch swinging to someone they think is better (trading up if you will). In general, there is less need for men to do this kind of justification to ease their guilt, and usually they can admit their marriage is pretty good.

 

In cases where the MW gets divorced and marries the AP (relatively rare of course), once the limerence wears off, most, according to studies, come to admit that the original marriage was not as bad as they claimed, and the new marriage is in fact no better. It's just part of the common dynamics of infidelity.