Abetterme Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 This is him ONLY grooming you heavily to continue being his OW. Don’t be disappointed when he says he can’t leave his marriage. That’s a lie too - because he CAN leave the marriage - he just doesn’t want to. You are believing his lies - please open your eyes - he’s a typical cheater who wants you as his OW. When he showed up today why didn’t you point blank say “why are you here and why are you stringing me along? When do you plan to divorce?” He wasting your time. He’s using you. He never gonna tell you that. But know it fully well. Hi OP - I haven’t chimed in as I was a MOW who never wanted xMM to leave so didn’t necessarily feel like my feedback was relevant, but I greatly agree with S2Bs recents posts above. I don’t think anyone can convince you he doesn’t care for you, he probably does in his self-serving way, but he is going to keep reducing you to rubble. Little by little in ways that seem like “conflict” for him, but really are very strong signals to tell you what his intentions are. I don’t believe my xMM is as smart and calculating like many people on these boards portray them. He just was a cake eater, and you know what? So was I. I think yours, and mine are very broken, confused people and rather than addressing what is leading them to stray, they look for side relationships to validate them. I was much the same and it caused me to make very poor choices I will regret forever. Only after much time and work can I see how badly this pattern of push-pull that I thought “was him loving me” has harmed me and my mental well being. I think you are very afraid to hold his feet to the fire and have a direct conversation now because you know you won’t like what you hear. Why wait a month? You talk for hours a day....get your answers now and then give yourself the time and space with no contact to show him that you are worth more. Bitter sweetie suggested 6 months, I couldn’t agree more. Use the 6 months to become the best version of you possible. I know it will be painful, but you will be better for it. You seem like a strong lady. I know you will need to come to these realizations in your own time. I too was very stubborn and wish I’d found these boards earlier. I know many have been rough on you but I hope you keep coming back. All the best to you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 For me it is better to have the conversation than not to talk about it. I will not see him again for another four weeks or so after that so it is important to me to at least take the opportunity. What are you going to ask him? What will you do if he says yes, no, or maybe? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Oh but he's getting much more of what he wants than most people. He gets his marriage and all of the benefits of that plus his girlfriend on the side to fill the needs that his wife doesn't meet. Most people have to pick one or the other. And your comment about the wife, that maybe someday she will find someone who meets all her needs... It goes without saying, but nobody meets “all your needs” in any relationship. But, very few people feel entitled to find someone else to fill in the gaps... Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I mentioned yesterday that it feel like we are back in the first couple of months of our relationship ... You're not in a relationship. You have an "arrangement." It's also a very unreliable arrangement. He sleeps with someone else. He lives with someone else. He produces off-spring with someone else. He manages his finances with someone else. He celebrates anniversaries with someone else. He invokes "complications" with someone else. What exactly do you do for him? What exactly is it he does for you? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) He actually hasn’t said he loves me in the last couple of weeks although has been affectionate otherwise.... Lots of communication and affection but no “I love yous” or future relationship talk. Typical of a man who is enjoying the affair experience, but not planning to leave his wife. Again, you are thinking monogamously... he is not. He is sending some lovely works and a little affection your way, hoping that it is enough to distract you and keep you happy such that you won’t notice that he’s not making plans to leave his wife or promising you a future. Edited June 7, 2019 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 And your comment about the wife, that maybe someday she will find someone who meets all her needs... It goes without saying, but nobody meets “all your needs” in any relationship. But, very few people feel entitled to find someone else to fill in the gaps... Yes, maybe some day the BW will find someone who loves her as much as the MM loves the OW if she's really lucky, and they'll all live happily ever after with their twin flames and there won't be any relationship issues because this all only happened because the MM and the BW got married to the wrong people, and if she weren't such a manipulative kill-joy she would have figured this out already and probably planned the MM and OW's wedding herself . . . Asaysno, the premise that the affair is caused by a mismatched marriage is a faulty one. Two healthy people can make a marriage work if they want to. And a healthy person married to an unhealthy person doesn't solve that problem with an affair. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 You're not in a relationship. You have an "arrangement." It's also a very unreliable arrangement. What exactly do you do for him? What exactly is it he does for you? We have a fantastic time when we are together - and I’m not talking about the physical part. We share common interests and a common sense of humor and we find each other joyful to be around. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiceCat Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 OP - why don't you think you deserve better than this? Link to post Share on other sites
SpiceCat Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 We have a fantastic time when we are together - and I’m not talking about the physical part. We share common interests and a common sense of humor and we find each other joyful to be around. He feels the same way about his wife, except that they have built a whole life together. You sound EXACTLY like me when I was desperately clinging to hope in my affair. He's happy around you because HE has everything HE wants..but you don't. You are better than this. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I can tell there is a hell of a lot of conflict in his mind right now, The conflict is that you're too invested now. You're calling this arrangement a "relationship" and he needs to either dial back your expectations or replace you with a new arrangement. Dumping you is too dangerous and he'd rather it be you who does the dumping. Moving on to a new and less invested mistress would be ideal - but, it's also a lot more work than simply getting you to lower your expectations. My guess is you're on the downhill side of this journey. All that future faking made the anticipation and sex hotter but, I think this has run it's course and the campfire will burn out unless you agree to fall back to a smoldering side arrangement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 We have a fantastic time when we are together - and I’m not talking about the physical part. We share common interests and a common sense of humor and we find each other joyful to be around. This doesn't seem particularly unique or hard to find to me. I'm interesting and funny and pretty joyful in general, and I seem to find myself surrounded with similar people. Is this genuinely hard to find and something you should put up with complicated and immoral circumstances to obtain, or are these justifications? Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 I don’t make friends particularly easily, so the connection and experience, even and especially pre-affair is unique for me. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 You asking him at this point is ridiculous and makes you look needy and desperate. You already know! He will use you to enjoy during work time. He doesn’t plan a future with you. He will have sex with you. But he won’t compromise his home life for you! Asking is silly now - he already told you your position is lowered and you don’t seem to want to accept that. It is what it is. Either be lower or leave. But stop thinking he needs to explain more to you - he already did that - and you made the agreement solidwhenyou accepted what little crumbs he’s tossed your way this past week. He’s just happy you’ve accepted the lowered role and his crumbs willingly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I don’t make friends particularly easily, so the connection and experience, even and especially pre-affair is unique for me. It’s not really unique - it’s a typical affair. Be honest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I appreciate your honesty. I'm not a bubbly person by any means. I'm rather reserved and clinical. But I find when my heart is open to others, they usually respond in kind. I hope you'll explore this in therapy. Meaningful connections happen organically when our cup of self-love is full and runs over to those around us. We don't have to force it, and we don't have to put up with less than we deserve to get it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Yep, he broke it off with you. And yet, you ALLOW him to continue on. You have shown him you will take whatever you can get from him. However small. So now he is thrilled. He has a little toy he can take out when he is bored. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 ... when we are together ... But you're not "together." Together is not measured merely by time spent or an experience shared. Who does he live with? Who's children does he protect? (His wife.) Who does he walk away from when this conflict arises? (You.) To whom does her return to settle the conflict? (His wife.) You are not together and you are not in a relationship. You are being used. Perhaps you are using him as well. What do you truly desire for yourself? This "arrangement" is way to avoid a question the answer to which, you fear is beyond your reach. Whether it is or not and what your life could be pales in comparison to what you have settled for. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiceCat Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 You asking him at this point is ridiculous and makes you look needy and desperate. You already know! He will use you to enjoy during work time. He doesn’t plan a future with you. He will have sex with you. But he won’t compromise his home life for you! Asking is silly now - he already told you your position is lowered and you don’t seem to want to accept that. It is what it is. Either be lower or leave. But stop thinking he needs to explain more to you - he already did that - and you made the agreement solidwhenyou accepted what little crumbs he’s tossed your way this past week. He’s just happy you’ve accepted the lowered role and his crumbs willingly. What's the point in holding back now? She should go ahead and ask..maybe his answer will open her eyes a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) I don’t make friends particularly easily, so the connection and experience, even and especially pre-affair is unique for me. I completely get that. But in all care and true sincerity, real friends don't do this too you. They don't steer that connection and great experience into something so perversely dangerous to your emotional health. The first step to making friends and connections more easily is believing you are worthy of them. Worthy not because someone flattered you, romanticized you, etc. - but, because you actually know and trust yourself to be worthy and valued. With that you see boundaries - those you have for yourself, and those around others that tell the real truth of their existence. Edited June 7, 2019 by Turning point 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Naivewomen Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) I have been reading this thread for awhile. The reason to me that you stay in this unfulfilling and unhealthy relationship is because you BELIEVE you will have a difficult time finding another because you claim to not be able to make new friends and build new relationships. Yes, will it be difficult absolutely but for yourself you must BELIEVE in yourself. Believe that you WILL once you heal from this emotional attachment. It is all about you putting the faith and trust into something that can never work. You seem to believe since you divorced that it should be so easy for him. Mm do not think the sameway. They dont leave!!!! Please listen to all your fellow posters here, you are wasting valuable time on an unworthy man. This man does not deserve your love and affection because your love is genuine and his is NOT! He would have already moved that mountain for you and figured out the logistics later. He already showed you the red flags necessary to walk away. So do it now before he leaves you. It will lower your self esteem and hurt you more. Trust everyone on here! I left while he was still WANTING me and that hurts the ego. So make him feel unworthy now of your love and say goodbye. Close this chapter, learn and move forward. Wishing you the very best! Edited June 7, 2019 by Naivewomen 1 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Love doesn't ask you to be a secret. Love doesn't ask you to compromise your values. Love doesn't violate people's autonomy. Love doesn't look like this. You are obviously a caring and interesting person. You can absolutely broaden your social circle and find other people, healthy people, to connect with. In my experience, the good people are all found doing "good people things." They're picking up litter. They're registering people to vote. They're doing yoga in the park. Find something that inspires you and put yourself out there, and notice what kind of people are around you. The self-absorbed ones are at home screwing up their lives while the good ones are out living their values. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) What's the point in holding back now? She should go ahead and ask..maybe his answer will open her eyes a bit. No it won’t... because MM lie to keep the OW in a safe position - for the marriage to continue on. Edited June 7, 2019 by S2B Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 No it won’t... because MM lie to keep the OW in a safe position - for the marriage to continue on. If he's going to leave now, she shouldn't have to ask. This is something he will have already decided and would of course be anxious to share with her. Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 What heartwhole said exactly. When my xMM decided he was going to have that discussion, I didn't have to ask and I didn't pressure. He called me to tell me just before he told his wife he wanted to separate. Look how that turned out in the end anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 if he cared less about making everybody happy he might be stronger at making assertive decisions. Op, this is where you are falling down. He's not worried about making anyone happy except himself. Making others happy sits on the back burner, unless it's means to an end that benefits him. If he really cared about you being happy ( or, for that matter, his wife and child), he would either end things with his wife so he could be with you or he would say to you that he couldn't be there for you in the way you deserve right now so he was going to end your relationship and go no contact. Does he know how hurtful this is to you? If so, the fact that he isn't making changes is very telling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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