BaileyB Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Maintenance work. He needs to keep those plates spinning. He gave your plate a good spin before he went down the hall to give his wife's plate a good spin. He is now just hoping he has done enough to keep your plate solidly spinning for the next 4 weeks... The “I love you” before parting was a nice touch, especially after a week or two of not saying it... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I’m going to go on vacation and see where my head is at in a couple of weeks. That's a good idea. While you're relaxing, please keep your mind and heart open just in case you meet someone who can offer you more than an affair. You never know when that person may happen along, and it would be really sad if you missed that opportunity because you're waiting for mm. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 We parted ways this evening to go on our respective vacations... he took me to dinner, kissed me goodbye, told me he loved me, and that the time would go fast until we saw each other again (in 3-4 weeks for next work meeting). Actually this evening is awkward as hell for me because it just so happens his hotel room is three doors down the hall where his family will be staying after they arrive tonight - I have an extremely early flight so I doubt we will cross paths but it’s still an odd sensation. I’m just trying to relax and not be anxious about any of it for now. It could be a tough night. What the heck... why wouldn’t you do something to get out of there? You could easily get a different/early flight. You could go to a different hotel to stay. It’s just....eeeew! All the way around it just seems so dang wrong! Do you get a kick out of making his marriage a mockery? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 , told me he loved me, and that the time would go fast until we saw each other again (in 3-4 weeks for next work meeting). Actually this evening is awkward as hell for me "Time would go fast until we saw each other again..." Uh huh, "Time flies when you're having fun." "Actually this evening is awkward as h for me..." Yep, when you're not having fun, not so much. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 That's a good idea. While you're relaxing, please keep your mind and heart open just in case you meet someone who can offer you more than an affair. You never know when that person may happen along, and it would be really sad if you missed that opportunity because you're waiting for mm. I will do my best. It is very difficult to think of loving anyone else right now... I don’t think I’m going to be ready for that for a long while. But life has unexpected surprises sometimes. In thinking about my situation I had a tad bit of insight. MM does not like to be alone. I clearly fill that gap for him in many ways and when he travels otherwise or is at home he fills that need with work. I’m not sure how this insight will be relevant but it does help me further understand the situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Maintenance work. He needs to keep those plates spinning. He gave your plate a good spin before he went down the hall to give his wife's plate a good spin. He is now just hoping he has done enough to keep your plate solidly spinning for the next 4 weeks... I will be interested to see if he tries to communicate at all. He’s never been able to go much longer than two days with no contact. Will definitely not be much maintenance if he chooses not to reach out at all. Link to post Share on other sites
sagamore Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 The “I love you” before parting was a nice touch, especially after a week or two of not saying it... The occasional “I love you” is meant to replace “let’s be together; I’ll leave my wife.” It sounds beautiful. But it’s a serious downgrade, and asaysno knows it. “Love you” doesn’t require any action on his part. He can say it, and then walk down the hall and say it to his wife. Feelings of love mean very little when the relationship is at a dead end. You can’t walk out in public holding hands. He can’t help you when your parents are sick. You can’t meet his family. Love - real love - is integrated into your life so that you feel whole, safe and complete. He may care for you, but to call what he can give you “love” is like turning on a lamp and calling it sunshine. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 The occasional “I love you” is meant to replace “let’s be together; I’ll leave my wife.” It sounds beautiful. But it’s a serious downgrade, and asaysno knows it. “Love you” doesn’t require any action on his part. He can say it, and then walk down the hall and say it to his wife. Feelings of love mean very little when the relationship is at a dead end. You can’t walk out in public holding hands. He can’t help you when your parents are sick. You can’t meet his family. Love - real love - is integrated into your life so that you feel whole, safe and complete. He may care for you, but to call what he can give you “love” is like turning on a lamp and calling it sunshine. He actually holds my hand in public all the time - I don’t mention it to “argue” but just because I’ve found it fascinating that he nearly always does - even in situations where we might run into people we know who are not aware of our relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
Aloha123 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 He actually holds my hand in public all the time - I don’t mention it to “argue” but just because I’ve found it fascinating that he nearly always does - even in situations where we might run into people we know who are not aware of our relationship. Mine did too -- sure they are genuinely attracted to and feel affection for us in the moment, but please understand that this comes primarily from a sense of entitlement and an utter lack of any boundaries. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Maria1956 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 It’s perfectly possible that he loves you both. Simple as that. There are plenty of us on here in similar situations and it can certainly take a long time for the affair fog to lift and reality of the situation to prevail. Leaving a marriage when you have a child is the really really hard, the emotional and physical upheaval, the financial aspect etc. It doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere does it? Truthfully can you see yourself in this exact same situation in ten years? Remaining a bit on the side? His lowest priority? I think you need to show him your self worth and walk from this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maria1956 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Mine did too -- sure they are genuinely attracted to and feel affection for us in the moment, but please understand that this comes primarily from a sense of entitlement and an utter lack of any boundaries. This ^^^ is soooo true 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 It’s perfectly possible that he loves you both. Simple as that. There are plenty of us on here in similar situations and it can certainly take a long time for the affair fog to lift and reality of the situation to prevail. Leaving a marriage when you have a child is the really really hard, the emotional and physical upheaval, the financial aspect etc. It doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere does it? Truthfully can you see yourself in this exact same situation in ten years? Remaining a bit on the side? His lowest priority? I think you need to show him your self worth and walk from this. Ten years? Likely not. It just depends on how life unfolds. I love this guy with all my heart despite everything. Right now I need to decide whether it is worth it for me to enjoy his company for 2-3 of the next six months. By the end of this year we will both have the opportunity to make decisions that will have a large impact on whether we continue to have any face to face contact opportunities at all. For example, we may decide to not schedule any business travel together, in which case there would be little opportunity to “continue” except possibly when he is in my city for business - but that is a different dynamic as we aren’t at a hotel together, etc. On the other hand, he could seek opportunities with me in which case I have further decisions to make about whether any future patterns get established. That’s on me to decide what I want and will allow. Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) when he travels otherwise or is at home he fills that need with work. This is a lie you tell yourself. The truth is 'at home he fills that need with his wife.' He has shown you this so clearly that you have regurgitated his sentences/actions to the point of clarity that dozens of people have been practically screaming on your thread DANGER, DANGER, DANGER!!! Frankly, I think you are craving a little danger after coming out of your marriage. The gut-wrenching part is you have chosen one of the most self-destructive paths possible, flippantly ushering in your own demise (and of others). MM is your crack-cocaine, and you are an addict. This is not love, not even close. You are heavily enmeshed in groveling for the tiniest bit of scraps ("but he said he loves me"). Sweetie, what he loves is how you make him feel....PERIOD! His actions towards you are extremely unloving, selfish, and cruel...but you make excuses to be complicit in your own abuse. This is not the love you have been seeking all your life. This is a scenario you are replaying on an unconscious level trying to heal a very old wound, thinking it will turn out differently this time than it did when it was inflicted...and it will...just not the way you are expecting. This time the brokenness and devastation will be staring in your face and you will be forced to do all the hard work to heal it (without MM who will...wait for it...STILL be married). You've made up your mind that no-one or thing is going to stand in your way of your own destruction. I have wondered if you have read all the posts on your thread? It is a goldmine of great posts by so, so many people. All these people have taken time from their own lives and responsibilities to help you. Are you even reading? It is difficult to imagine anyone careening down this path after doing so. Over the last 12 hours I have read your posts feeling deeply sad for you...because I know how badly this is going to end for you...and you are jumping in with all you've got. I could summarize your posts by the following: MM - "Puppet on my string?" Asaysno - "YES, PLEASE!" (all sensibility flies out the window, enter in psychological annihilation) By the way, there is nothing I would love more than for you to prove me wrong. Edited June 15, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I will be interested to see if he tries to communicate at all. He’s never been able to go much longer than two days with no contact. Will definitely not be much maintenance if he chooses not to reach out at all. You think he’s communicating because he can’t go a few days without contacting you... it’s his way of making sure you’re still in the game. Yep, he’s gotta make sure he still has you on the line... heaven forbid if you actually got independent and realized you deserve more/better. He’s got it made. He’s playing you for his own benefit. Dump him - he’s a liar and a cheater... why would you want that for yourself? He’s got a broken moral compass and needs serious help. You can do better. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 I am sure I can do better than my current situation. I will be focusing on my son on our holiday the next two weeks and will be remembering the things I don’t like about MM as much as I can when things get too painful. For example, at our last night together we were listening to live music at the pub and his wife began texting him- mentioning me by name. I am not fluent in their native language but know enough to know she was 1) giving him **** for being out, even though he was working on his laptop to meet a deadline while we were there (he kept texting her pictures of his computer to show what he was doing) 2) she was mentioning me by name multiple times (not sure exactly what was said) 3) he was lying and saying we were out with a group- which we had been earlier in the evening, but the others had departed I don’t like the blatant lying and I don’t like the obvious toxicity of the communication. In that moment he was choosing me but I didn’t like the cost. I am also not clear on what she does and doesn’t know which I don’t like. It is these things that I think will eventually help me to make my decisions and do what is best for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Jhm42 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Asaysno, I’ve gotten an odd feeling from your writing, and I just figured out why. Your posts are full of hedging qualifiers and other constructions that make you sound removed from the experience. Is that your usual writing style? If not, why do you think you’re creating such a distance between yourself and what you’re doing? I could take a few guesses, but your answer is more important. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Good question. I think I am trying to figure out this experience in as objective a way as possible, when it is so subjective with regard to feelings involved, etc. It is a place I *never* expected to be. After so many years of being in a half-empty relationship, the feelings and experiences I have had with this guy have given me so much of what was missing, made me feel great joy again, taught me many things about myself and the world. And yet- as much as we were talking/working towards making it legitimate, that had not happened. So it’s been so good and so very awful in the span of a few weeks. I don’t know if that’s the answer you were guessing. I’m doing my best to reconcile my dreams and reality with this new paradigm and I find it a very crazy place to try to navigate. Link to post Share on other sites
Turning point Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 ...told me he loved me, and that the time would go fast until we saw each other again.. ... his hotel room is three doors down the hall where his family will be staying after they arrive tonight. This sounds like a slave girl or wife #14 in some harem, patiently waiting until it's her turn to service the king. I know that's a harsh thing to say but, you need to know just how much it pains some of use to see you treat yourself this way. We're not cruel, just helpless to stop this train wreck. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Well that particular arrangement was out of my control due to flight schedules and business hotel booking, but it was certainly not ideal. I booked the first flight out of town that I could. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 This sounds like a slave girl or wife #14 in some harem, patiently waiting until it's her turn to service the king. Exactly, yet we still get OWs here wondering why does he do it? Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 we may decide to not schedule any business travel together You mentioned in your first post, I believe, that your company had announced there wouldn't be a large budget for travel and this was the impetus for your seeking his assurance that he was really leaving and his about-face on that matter. Is this still the case? I worry about you not only blowing up your personal life, but your professional one as well, if the company discovers you are planning non-essential travel so you can play house at a time when there are budgetary concerns. For example, at our last night together we were listening to live music at the pub and his wife began texting him- mentioning me by name. I am not fluent in their native language but know enough to know she was 1) giving him **** for being out, even though he was working on his laptop to meet a deadline while we were there (he kept texting her pictures of his computer to show what he was doing) 2) she was mentioning me by name multiple times (not sure exactly what was said) 3) he was lying and saying we were out with a group- which we had been earlier in the evening, but the others had departed I don’t like the blatant lying and I don’t like the obvious toxicity of the communication. In that moment he was choosing me but I didn’t like the cost. I am also not clear on what she does and doesn’t know which I don’t like. He's obviously going to great lengths to assure his wife that he is not with you. This makes me think they've at least had a soft DDay. As we all know, this did not result in her kicking him out and you winning him by default. This resulted in him going to greater lengths to cover his tracks and to set boundaries with you around when he will engage with you and when he won't. You are regressing. You were close to your dream of him leaving, or at least he let himself and you think so. But you have rapidly receded from that point. His response to her being suspicious of an affair is not to say, yes, you're right, let's deal with all of this. His response is to get trickier about deceiving her. You paint their interactions as toxic, but one partner is rightfully trying to figure out why her reality doesn't make sense and one partner is trying to gaslight her to keep her from discovering that reality. She's not being toxic; she's trying to figure out why the puzzle pieces don't match. And he keeps shouting, "THEY DO MATCH!!!" I find it interesting that you felt he was "choosing you" in that moment. You read a tremendous amount of intention into very basic actions. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 For example, at our last night together we were listening to live music at the pub and his wife began texting him- mentioning me by name. I am not fluent in their native language but know enough to know she was 1) giving him **** for being out, even though he was working on his laptop to meet a deadline while we were there (he kept texting her pictures of his computer to show what he was doing) 2) she was mentioning me by name multiple times (not sure exactly what was said) 3) he was lying and saying we were out with a group- which we had been earlier in the evening, but the others had departed I don’t like the blatant lying and I don’t like the obvious toxicity of the communication. In that moment he was choosing me but I didn’t like the cost. I am also not clear on what she does and doesn’t know which I don’t like. He was not choosing you. He happened to physically be be with you, because you were on the road together and available to each other... but, he was lying to his wife to assure her that you were not alone together ———he was choosing her. Her feelings were more important to him in that moment than yours. If find it fascinating that you don’t like the blatant lying and yet —— this is a prerequisite of an extramarital affair. And, you’ve chosen a guy who does it so well, you can’t even tell when he’s lying... As to the obvious toxicity of the relationship - his wife knows something is going on. Her husband is on the road all the time, she is suspicious of his behaviour... she is trying to figure out what is happening in her marriage (as heart whole says, put the pieces together)... She wouldn’t have to do that if he wasn’t cheating on her and telling “there is nothing to worry about darling.” If the roles were reversed, you would be doing the exact same thing! Besides - that’s a whole lot of judgment from the woman on a date out with her husband. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 So his wife is done with school, she knows who you are, she at least have some suspicions (if she doesn't know outright) and rather than seize the opportunity to say "yes, I love her, I'm going to be with her", he...denies it? This is a very clear signal that this isn't going to end the way you want it to. He had the perfect chance and didn't take it, because he doesn't want to. He's not going to leave. How can you sit next to someone you love so deeply while they deny your existence? How can you sit there and let him insist that you aren't there, that you don't matter, that you aren't important? How does that not destroy you completely? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Why would he leave her? Why would he choose? He’s got at least two women meeting his needs - filling in the gaps. And he’s short changing both women with lies and envy. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 How can you sit next to someone you love so deeply while they deny your existence? How can you sit there and let him insist that you aren't there, that you don't matter, that you aren't important? How does that not destroy you completely? It's called getting one up on the wife... He and she are the team, the couple... the wife is the toxic interloper... Link to post Share on other sites
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