In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[mark clemson]

Hi, OP. I believe you that his wife is awful, he's genuinely unhappy in the marriage, and he has genuine feelings you. Nonetheless, you are where you are, not where you want to be with him.

 

In addition, consider that:

 

• His wife appears to be good at manipulating him
  
• There will be a very large cost to divorce (even if she starts working, presumably at entry level)
  
• There is a large logistical cost to divorce in terms of restructuring one's life
  
• He will always be worried about the impact to his son (ironic since the impact of staying married is probably actually worse, but that's another matter)
  

 

I think the reality is that you're simply making his awful marriage more bearable for him. Not only are feelings for you balanced against the points above, everything he gets from you makes his marriage easier to tolerate. So, by continuing the affair, you're (paradoxically) making it easier for him to stay.

 

You're asking for advice - my advice to you is to look at the above and consider realistically what's most likely to happen.

[Turning point]

Sex is a power play, and taking it "one day at a time" after you made that play is very transparent. As far as I can tell, you're simply working a plan to steal another woman's man, and in the process you've been played by someone who's better at this game than you are.

 

Harsh I know, but this one's pretty easy to untangle.

[Aloha123]

Have you read LiliKitKat's Never Thought I'd Be the Other Woman thread at all? You're situations are very similar and it's a cautionary tale. But it also should give you some solace in that she came SO far by getting advice hear, reading others' stories, and is now ultimately trying to move on with her wife.

Spoiler alert: Her MM never did end up leaving his wife

[finna]

Yes. We mutually began a relationship because it was something we felt we both desperately needed. We have both said we learned and grew so much we have no regrets. My preference would have been that he go home immediately and break things off with his wife so as to legitimize our path asap. For several reasons that could not occur immediately, which I understood. I supported his path and encouraged him to make decisions on his own happiness - not because of me.

 

Wow. ... and you engaged in this affair anyway?

 

To a previous poster's comments about gaslighting, - friends don't do this to a friends family. As much as these married men gaslight their OW to keep them in their place, the OW typically enters the affair with gaslighting of her own. The classic "we're just friends" lie.

 

Looking at this from the window of a plane above - you are not, and never were a friend to him, or the people around him. The entire basis of your assumptions about why the two of you are together is a step by step rewrite of this history.

[Aloha123]

Have you read LiliKitKat's Never Thought I'd Be the Other Woman thread at all? You're situations are very similar and it's a cautionary tale. But it also should give you some solace in that she came SO far by getting advice hear, reading others' stories, and is now ultimately trying to move on with her wife.

Spoiler alert: Her MM never did end up leaving his wife

 

is now trying to move on with her LIFE, not WIFE, lol

[elaine567]

He is the one now moving on with his wife...

[finna]

Lots of good points for sure. I’m not certain where is will end up but in the short term we/I need to make some decisions about whether we continue casually (as there is little “future talk” at this point other than him saying he may regret breaking off our relationship (the path we’d been on anyway) and that some of the things we had planned for the future couldn’t happen “this year at least”. So he rather leaves the door open for something with those kind of comments.

 

He might tell me in a few days that we have to be completely done as lovers, but I have my doubts on whether that will hold, as we will continue to have contact as colleagues and friends.

 

Is this him stringing me along? I don’t believe it’s intentional- I think he is still conflicted and may be for awhile.

 

 

Hi, OP. I believe you that his wife is awful, he's genuinely unhappy in the marriage, and he has genuine feelings you. Nonetheless, you are where you are, not where you want to be with him.

 

In addition, consider that:

 

• His wife appears to be good at manipulating him
  
• There will be a very large cost to divorce (even if she starts working, presumably at entry level)
  
• There is a large logistical cost to divorce in terms of restructuring one's life
  
• He will always be worried about the impact to his son (ironic since the impact of staying married is probably actually worse, but that's another matter)
  

 

I think the reality is that you're simply making his awful marriage more bearable for him. Not only are feelings for you balanced against the points above, everything he gets from you makes his marriage easier to tolerate. So, by continuing the affair, you're (paradoxically) making it easier for him to stay.

 

You're asking for advice - my advice to you is to look at the above and consider realistically what's most likely to happen.

[PhoenixRising8]

Have you read LiliKitKat's Never Thought I'd Be the Other Woman thread at all? You're situations are very similar and it's a cautionary tale. But it also should give you some solace in that she came SO far by getting advice hear, reading others' stories, and is now ultimately trying to move on with her wife.

Spoiler alert: Her MM never did end up leaving his wife

 

Thanks for the shout out Aloha!

 

Yes OP read my thread. It's 100 pages and near the top but it is literally the diary of the destabilization phase of the relationship. I'm heading out shortly but will post my thoughts to you later. BTW, if you read my thread and don't see the similarities in the plot, I will be very surprised.

[Amethyst68]

Well he obviously has regrets now and is trying to put you back into your side piece box.

 

Still no guilt about breaking up a family. Of course his wife is the evil manipulating one when he is the person who has absolutely no problem lying every day to the person he swore to love and protect. If nothing else he is a coward and a liar, his wife deserves so much better.

 

How would your 2 household future work? You still work in separate locations, so is it basically 2 separate households with you taking turns flying in for the weekends?

 

You have to realise it's unusual for MM to leave for the OW, I won't say they never do because obviously that's not true but they're the exception. Then you get the ones who say they leave but in reality are only there because their BW threw them out and they had nowhere else to go. The thing is if you read different forums, inc the separated and divorced ones you'll see that a number of these men never stop trying to go back! Especially when there are young children involved.

[finna]

Neither of us think his wife is evil as I’ve mentioned. She and he have a lot of relationship issues including codependency and emotional abuse and I have witnessed her being extremely manipulative- probably because he responds to it by trying to fix everything. They’ve been in MC for several years trying to learn how to communicate without attacking each other- I think the mileage has varied on that one.

 

I believe they are very mismatched and both deserve better- because neither one are happy as it stands now. And yes, if splitting would make both of their lives better and it meant their son wasn’t around two unhappy parents I don’t think it’s a bad decision... obviously it is not my decision. As I mentioned, I wouldn’t be surprised if she eventually threw him out.

 

We live in separate locations but mostly work remotely and could be based in either city... I’m not worried about those logistics.

 

 

Well he obviously has regrets now and is trying to put you back into your side piece box.

 

Still no guilt about breaking up a family. Of course his wife is the evil manipulating one when he is the person who has absolutely no problem lying every day to the person he swore to love and protect. If nothing else he is a coward and a liar, his wife deserves so much better.

 

How would your 2 household future work? You still work in separate locations, so is it basically 2 separate households with you taking turns flying in for the weekends?

 

You have to realise it's unusual for MM to leave for the OW, I won't say they never do because obviously that's not true but they're the exception. Then you get the ones who say they leave but in reality are only there because their BW threw them out and they had nowhere else to go. The thing is if you read different forums, inc the separated and divorced ones you'll see that a number of these men never stop trying to go back! Especially when there are young children involved.

[S2B]

Stop assessing his wife - and his marital relationship - you ONLY know the lies he tells you about her.

 

The bottom line is —-> it is his choice to stay with her (yet he criticizes her relentlessly). He does this to gain your sympathy.

 

He’s made his decision. Do NOT ever be alone with him again - under any circumstances. He is USING you.

 

Date available men. Consider a new job!

 

 

Again - he’s told you he chooses his wife- believe him - he’s not leaving her for you.

 

 

And it’s up to you to end it - knowing he wants both you AND his wife - but he has no intention of being faithful.

[S2B]

Lots of good points for sure. I’m not certain where is will end up but in the short term we/I need to make some decisions about whether we continue casually (as there is little “future talk” at this point other than him saying he may regret breaking off our relationship (the path we’d been on anyway) and that some of the things we had planned for the future couldn’t happen “this year at least”. So he rather leaves the door open for something with those kind of comments.

 

He might tell me in a few days that we have to be completely done as lovers, but I have my doubts on whether that will hold, as we will continue to have contact as colleagues and friends.

 

Is this him stringing me along? I don’t believe it’s intentional- I think he is still conflicted and may be for awhile.

 

Why are you leaving it up to him?

 

You’re single now - go date!

 

Tell him to buzz off! He is NOT available.

 

Yes, he’s definitely stringing you along!

[BaileyB]

We live in separate locations but mostly work remotely and could be based in either city... I’m not worried about those logistics.

 

You have all the logistics worked out aside from the wife. That logistic is proving a little more difficult to deal with...

 

Seriously, how is it possible that you made this “commitment to each other” when the man is married to another woman... in much the same way lilkitKat booked a trip with her MM thinking that they would be together and had to cancel it because he didn’t leave his wife...

[sagamore]

His actions and intentions are crystal clear. He’s never going to leave. If you weren’t so head over heels for him you would be able to see how he is gradually detaching from you and lowering your expectations...

 

This only goes one way from here. I’m sorry.

[finna]

We made a commitment because there was a specific timeline we were following for him to leave based on his wife successfully finishing a vocational retraining program so that she would have a degree, a waiting job, and be able to be self sufficient financially. He was afraid if he left her with just a few months to go she would not be able to finish and it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to pay back based on the program terms. These plans were not in doubt until three weeks ago when he got scared and stressed and guilty and broke it off with me.

 

We reunited last week but did not solidify anything with regard to the relationship. This is why I am “in a rough place”.

 

 

You have all the logistics worked out aside from the wife. That logistic is proving a little more difficult to deal with...

 

Seriously, how is it possible that you made this “commitment to each other” when the man is married to another woman... in much the same way lilkitKat booked a trip with her MM thinking that they would be together and had to cancel it because he didn’t leave his wife...

[finna]

This is entirely possible... I’m not sure how much back and forth we will have in the meantime. I am scheduled to take a five hour road trip with him in a week to our next business destination so at the very least there is time to talk then and sort things out one way or another.

 

 

His actions and intentions are crystal clear. He’s never going to leave. If you weren’t so head over heels for him you would be able to see how he is gradually detaching from you and lowering your expectations...

 

This only goes one way from here. I’m sorry.

[finna]

Why are you leaving it up to him?

 

You’re single now - go date!

 

Tell him to buzz off! He is NOT available.

 

Yes, he’s definitely stringing you along!

 

1. Because the only choice I have is to officially break it off. I don’t want that.

 

2. I’m not ready to date as I’m still in love with this guy.

 

3. I don’t want him to buzz off.

 

That all probably sounds lame... but it’s my current truth.

[Amethyst68]

I'm sorry but you reunited last week because it was easy sex during a work trip. I think you're seeing what you want to see. If this man was planning to leave his wife he would not be bringing her (and his son) to celebrate their anniversary! No matter how much she insists, it's a business trip after all.

[S2B]

1. Because the only choice I have is to officially break it off. I don’t want that.

 

2. I’m not ready to date as I’m still in love with this guy.

 

3. I don’t want him to buzz off.

 

That all probably sounds lame... but it’s my current truth.

 

Ok then. Accept your role as ONLY his OW when it’s convenient for him.

 

You have handed this married man all of YOUR power - so expect to feel used and abused... because that is what you have agreed to every time you see him.

 

That is your reality. If you don’t intend to change it - then accept it as a secondary role you fit into for his benefit.

[DKT3]

I kinda confused as to why you're confused. I somewhat get it when a MM is saying we will be together as soon as....then having opposing actions, but here, he is telling you he doesn't want a future and backing it up with actions. Oh, but after you've hounded him he says something to give you hope for the future but still shows opposite actions.

 

At the end of the day, if a man wants a woman that wants him he will make it happen sooner then later. I suspect most of what is being said is not computing with you, I know in your head you're thinking "they dont know him, we are different, he is different, we share something special, they dont understand " ask lilkatkat, ask Aloha, ask the countless other women here that was once in your position if they at one point thought the same.

 

9%....that is the number of men who leave their marriage for OW. Every OW that is looking for that believes they are special, that their situation is unique and different. 91% are wrong.

[finna]

I don’t think he is actively planning to leave her- not at this point. He has said as much with breaking it off with me because of wanting to focus on the family and try to make his son happy. But I also know that he is conflicted and that his marriage is still miserable in many ways... so who knows if/when the next flip flop will be. It’s not something I’m counting on. However I still have very strong feelings and am trying to figure out if/where any sort of relationship fits into all this... colleagues, friends, more, whatever.

 

I'm sorry but you reunited last week because it was easy sex during a work trip. I think you're seeing what you want to see. If this man was planning to leave his wife he would not be bringing her (and his son) to celebrate their anniversary! No matter how much she insists, it's a business trip after all.

[finna]

I hear you- I really do. I’m confused because he is all over the place in his communication... he broke it off, then planned last week for us to be together for five days, then spent the weekend with family, then told me he will let me know on things when I see him again next week.

 

I kinda confused as to why you're confused. I somewhat get it when a MM is saying we will be together as soon as....then having opposing actions, but here, he is telling you he doesn't want a future and backing it up with actions. Oh, but after you've hounded him he says something to give you hope for the future but still shows opposite actions.

 

At the end of the day, if a man wants a woman that wants him he will make it happen sooner then later. I suspect most of what is being said is not computing with you, I know in your head you're thinking "they dont know him, we are different, he is different, we share something special, they dont understand " ask lilkatkat, ask Aloha, ask the countless other women here that was once in your position if they at one point thought the same.

 

9%....that is the number of men who leave their marriage for OW. Every OW that is looking for that believes they are special, that their situation is unique and different. 91% are wrong.

[finna]

How do you suggest I use my power?

 

 

Ok then. Accept your role as ONLY his OW when it’s convenient for him.

 

You have handed this married man all of YOUR power - so expect to feel used and abused... because that is what you have agreed to every time you see him.

 

That is your reality. If you don’t intend to change it - then accept it as a secondary role you fit into for his benefit.

[S2B]

How do you suggest I use my power?

 

By taking it back.

 

He said it’s not going anywhere - so take action on that.

 

Don’t see him anymore. Be strong!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I hear you. I’ve also heard him say something completely different just a few weeks ago so I’m trying to figure out where this will really settle out. I’m not clear today whether he wants me on the side or not.

 

Once that’s sorted I need to figure out my own response, anywhere from come find me when you are divorced (knowing that may never happen) to yes, we enjoy each other’s company so let’s make the most of it when we are together.

 

I say you need to figure out your own response NOW. Why must your response be contingent on his? By making it such you are simply putting him in the omnipotent power seat, which will only further degrade you, diminish your value in his eyes (bc you are teaching him you will settle for crumbs and he will learn to value you less and less), all while your self-esteem and confidence takes a nose dive.

 

The only way to "win" here is for you to take a huge step back, disentangle yourself emotionally, make it clear you will only interact with him on a strictly platonic (no flirting) and business level unless he takes steps to leave his marriage...because he's demonstrating that he never plans to make any changes. I see a man who fancies you, enjoys your company and sex a great deal, but is unwilling to upset his applecart to make anything between you real and lasting. The longer you allow this, without taking charge of the situation by extricating yourself, the more entrenched he will become in these cake eating habits.

 

Don't mistake his sentiment and passion for commitment to you. He is very much still committed to his wife and family, and has told you as much. Please don't deceive yourself because you have too much to lose by "waiting" while he has everything to gain.

 

After setting a firm boundary about what terms you are willing to accept, force yourself to date around. You will be disappointed by the men you meet because none will measure up to him in your eyes...but force yourself to get it there and mingle. The longer you fixate on the romantic idea of him leaving his current life behind and running into your arms, the more isolated you will become, and the more damage to yourself you will do. I very much doubt you'll agree with me in your current state, but I hope you'll sincerely take my words into consideration. I have been through the entire spectrum with MM...even to the point of feeling like we finally got to a good friendship without any expectation of each other...he would always be married and I was happy to date others to find my life partner while we enjoyed friendly conversions only. Even that ended in disappointment.

 

Please save yourself the inevitable heartache. If he really intends to be with you in a meaningful way, he will only do it on his own when he realizes your value. He won't do that while you are offering yourself to him at his convenience. It will not matter the friendship or history you previously shared once he begins to see you as a woman who will wait around for his crumbs at his beckon call.

 

Honor yourself. Only you should determine your destiny. Until he makes a full (lifetime) commitment to you with his past neatly sorted, he should not get a say in your destiny. Be strong and well. Take care of yourself.