In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[finna]

...

 

It was a potential life/death situation- twice. As far as thinking about whether the situation is okay, of course it is not ideal.

Edited June 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

It may not be peachy but it will be even worse if an affair comes to light. Do you really want to exacerbate the problem? That poor little boy will really have a F$&@3d up view of male/female relations. Trust me, I know.

 

As for their relationship, unless you've been a fly on the wall behind their closed doors, you haven't a clue how good or bad their relationship is.

 

You are right that I can’t truly know how good or bad their relationship is- but I know that people who are very happy with each other typically don’t step out, argue with poisonous language, hurl insults and call the other names, etc.

[PhoenixRising8]

You missed my point.

 

People who are happy with each other sometimes DO step out on each other. (Aloha's xMM is a perfect example) But I wasn't really referring to that. I was emphasizing the fact that YOU are helping him screw up his kid more. Is that what you really want to do?

 

My xMM has adult kids and no one in his social circle knew about me, unlike your situation. I was adamant he wasn't going to leave FOR me and announce our relationship immediately. Because I didn't want to harm his relationship with his kids, extended family or friends. It finally ended because it was clear there was going to be no movement in the near term and I didn't want him to be discovered, nor continue to participate in duplicitous behaviour. I also started to feel like I was cheering in the bleachers for him to end it and I hated the feeling.

 

Your relationship is a badly kept secret. Maybe that's why BS suspects you. And that little boy will never accept you if he finds out you stole daddy because he will be loyal to mommy. You can sugar coat and whitewash all you want. You can say he's stepping out because it's a bad relationship. But you CANNOT avoid the fact you are complicit in his duplicitous behaviour. On top of that, you are in the bleachers hoping for an end to his marriage despite the fact he has cooled it off with you BIG TIME.

Edited June 22, 2019 by LilKatKat

[elaine567]

Has your MM ever spoken about your child?

Has he ever specifically expressed a wish to form a happy family with your child?

[LivingWaterPlease]

You are right that I can’t truly know how good or bad their relationship is- but I know that people who are very happy with each other typically don’t step out, argue with poisonous language, hurl insults and call the other names, etc.

 

But how can they be very happy with each other when one of them is having an affair?

 

Also, if you're going to reply that they were behaving badly toward each other before the affair or long before the affair,

 

1. For either of them to have an affair only complicates their already existing problems.

 

2. Behaving badly toward each other is in no way an indication that an affair will be helpful to them or to the AP.

 

3. Behaving badly toward each other is a symptom that each of them has problems which will affect any AP who should have the "misfortune" to become involved with either, rather than solving problems for any one of the three adults and two children involved.

[heartwhole2]

Do you really think that a kid has a stable upbringing when his parents argue and are hateful to each other on a regular basis? Because that was happening before I was ever in the picture and is happening now. My son is off limits as any sort of bargaining chip or manipulation strategy between my ex and I, and he is quite stable even though we are divorced.

 

I don’t disagree that a fallout from an affair can impact kids, but let’s not pretend everything is peachy now.

 

Here's the thing, asaysno. If MM were really a selfless person, he wouldn't argue and be hateful with his wife.

 

When my husband was cheating on me he tried to cast me as a villain so he could feel OK about it. But see, I live by the Golden Rule. I'm a Big Girl. I did not jump into the vicious cycle with him. I calmly addressed the stuff I noticed that I didn't like. I was gracious and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I didn't accept crap but I didn't hurl it back at him either.

 

And because MM is, in fact, a man with weak character, poor self-awareness, crappy communication skills, a tendency towards contempt, the ability to greatly disrespect his partner, etc., he would not make a good partner for you or a good step-parent for your child.

 

I feel like you're trying to cover your nakedness with a sheet full of holes. When we point out one thing that doesn't make sense, you shift the sheet and reveal another. I hope you'll be able to accept the holes sooner than later.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Heartwhole2's last post, Asaysno pay particular attention. Aside from all else (what is happening, could happen, all the players involved)...he just plain sucks! Not a prize you would get at the end of the long painful road, but a booby prize, or a booby trap rather!

 

A better man would not be in, or encourage, this situation.

[finna]

Has your MM ever spoken about your child?

Has he ever specifically expressed a wish to form a happy family with your child?

 

Yes. He said he wanted us to be a family with our boys and that he would be honored to be in a stepdad role for my son.

[finna]

Here's the thing, asaysno. If MM were really a selfless person, he wouldn't argue and be hateful with his wife.....

 

I have never actually witnessed him being hateful with BS. He says there are times when they have argued that they have been poisonous to each other and it has been hurtful. As I’ve said, what I’ve witnessed many times is her screaming at him, calling him names, telling him he is a horrible person, etc. He always listens and calmly handles it by acknowledging her feelings and often apologizing or otherwise trying to diffuse the situation.

 

This isn’t new information in my story. I am not saying he does not have issues and faults - he has many.

Edited June 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Asaysno, I've been thinking to ask you this for weeks:

 

If this were a single guy you began dating, who promised you the fairy tale before doing a 180 and turning cold fish, would anything be different for you?

 

Would you still be making excuses for single guy's badbehavior and treating you like a chew toy?

 

Or have you lost your sensibility because it's a married guy/affair?

 

I'm being serious and I would like an answer from you on this. I know I tolerated more than normal due to the affair "circumstances." In the end, it shouldn't make any difference because no one should accept $hit treatment, but would you respond differently to the breadcrumbs if it were a single man?

[Amethyst68]

Has it ever crossed your mind that you should never have been in the position to witness threes these discussions/phone calls? Your MM should have excused himself when taking these extremely private calls or you should have removed yourself from the situation. O:sick:f course then that wouldn't give the pair of you excuses to discuss her unreasonable behaviour!

[finna]

......I'm being serious and I would like an answer from you on this. I know I tolerated more than normal due to the affair "circumstances." In the end, it shouldn't make any difference because no one should accept $hit treatment, but would you respond differently to the breadcrumbs if it were a single man?

 

I’m not sure exactly what the boundaries would look like if he was single, but still long distance, still a parent, lots of family obligations, heavy workload, etc. It would certainly look somewhat different in terms of communication styles but I’m not sure how much priorities would shift- time spent together, etc. might still be quite similar.

Edited June 23, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

Has it ever crossed your mind that you should never have been in the position to witness threes these discussions/phone calls? Your MM should have excused himself when taking these extremely private calls or you should have removed yourself from the situation. O:sick:f course then that wouldn't give the pair of you excuses to discuss her unreasonable behaviour!

 

He does retreat to another room and close the door when he can... sometimes it happens when we are walking down the street or out somewhere and he will step aside... the yelling can often still be heard... and whether I have “overheard” or not it is not something we discuss in terms of her - if he is visibly upset after I will sometimes ask if he wants to talk... typically he does not about them although he will want to talk about hopes and dreams and things he is looking forward to, and sometimes his non-relationship related challenges in life.

 

Yes there have been a few times we have directly discussed what just happened, but typically he keeps that between them.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I’m not sure exactly what the boundaries would look like if he was single, but still long distance, still a parent, lots of family obligations, heavy workload, etc. It would certainly look somewhat different in terms of communication styles but I’m not sure how much priorities would shift- time spent together, etc. might still be quite similar.

 

I'm asking about YOUR response. Would you respond differently to a single man who played hot and cold?

 

Also you are incredibly enmeshed in all things MM with very little thought of how this impacts you or anyone else. You really need to think about that for your own mental health and stability. Counseling will help.

[sagamore]

There’s one thing you haven’t thought through here. Let’s say he does leave. Fine. Have you thought about the HUGE amount of hell he would have to withstand for then being in a relationship with you? You, the woman she’s most concerned about? Who she asks him about and he makes up excuses to deny? You, who are the subject of her worries and insecurities and their fights? Even if he could withstand being the bad guy and all the upheaval for their son that would come with divorce - he could NEVER then turn around and confirm all her fears and bad opinions of him by being with you. It will never work. He will never make himself look that bad.

 

Part of the reason you became unhappy when you were out with him and he was denying the affair to her is because you know that by refusing to tell her, he makes it doubly unlikely that he could then ever turn around again and say, “I’m in a relationship with A.” If you were EVER going to have a shot as a couple, he would have needed to come clean with her then. Or at least not emphatically deny it. Basically that was a rehearsal for D-Day - and you saw what he chose. If they ever had a real D-day he would drop you completely - or go so minimal contact with you that your heart would break.

[finna]

@sagamore...

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this. Earlier in our relationship when he was adamant about planning to divorce, I asked him about a gap between him filing and our relationship becoming public. At that time he said he did not want to wait, but if it ever actually happens I could see where he would still not want to admit to the affair to BS or anyone outside of the handful of people who know.

 

Of course even a several month (or more) “gap” would still likely confirm BS suspicions... so I’m not sure there is the peaceful way out that he was seeking... yes, it could have happened if he would have split with her before getting involved with anyone else.

Edited June 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[heartwhole2]

Most people will not fight with their spouses in front of other people, but they'll do it in private. When he's with you, he's motivated not to look like a complete a**hole.

 

But again, it doesn't matter if he has a good reason to divorce because he told you he's focusing on his family, a.k.a. not planning to get a divorce.

 

So what is your plan? Can you start to entertain some timelines and boundaries for yourself?

[finna]

Honest timeline... short term: 5-6 months... long term: two years.

 

Those represent some milestones with my son’s education, financial agreements with my ex, etc. I need to have my **** completely sorted out two years from now.

 

Do I want this situation to carry on like this for that amount of time? Hell no. But that’s when I truly need to have everything sorted.

[elaine567]

He probably starts the fight with his wife on purpose, so he can show you how horrible she is, and he can play the victim and the calm, oh so reasonable guy when with you...

 

"Oh you poor thing, let me kiss you all better, I would never treat you so mean..."

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Honest timeline... short term: 5-6 months... long term: two years.

 

Those represent some milestones with my son’s education, financial agreements with my ex, etc. I need to have my **** completely sorted out two years from now.

 

Do I want this situation to carry on like this for that amount of time? Hell no. But that’s when I truly need to have everything sorted.

 

Are you saying you are going to entertain this for another 6 months to two years before you'll even begin to consider extricating yourself? Did I understand that correctly?

[heartwhole2]

Obviously you are not ready to move on yet. I do hope you'll figure out IC sooner than later.

 

It is very hard to walk away from people we love. We will try to pretzel ourselves to make the pieces fit first. While we still love them and want them in our lives, we may rationalize and accept things that we know aren't good for us. It takes a while to find the courage and ability to leave. I have not experienced this with a romantic relationship, but I have experienced it with a religious friend group. When I decided the beliefs were at odds with my values and my rational mind, it was heartbreaking to be misunderstood and cast out by people who supposedly loved me, but it was also the only way to move forward.

 

Instead of focusing on how to make the pieces fit with MM, I encourage you to focus on shoring up your sense of self. Get into IC. Re-invest in friendships you may have let fall by the wayside, or find new friends through the hobbies you enjoy. Focus less on him and more on yourself, and maybe in those 5-6 months, you will feel differently when you find yourself having the same conversation with him.

[BaileyB]

Honest timeline... short term: 5-6 months... long term: two years.

 

Wow. It’s going to be a long two years for you...

[BaileyB]

Instead of focusing on how to make the pieces fit with MM, I encourage you to focus on shoring up your sense of self. Get into IC. Focus less on him and more on yourself, and maybe in those 5-6 months, you will feel differently when you find yourself having the same conversation with him.

 

This. If you plan to spend the next two years waiting for him, you might as well spend your time doing something worthwhile - investing in yourself.

 

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the time comes and you decide - you are a stronger person, you see a better future for yourself, and you want a partner who brings more to your life than this MM...

[finna]

Are you saying you are going to entertain this for another 6 months to two years before you'll even begin to consider extricating yourself? Did I understand that correctly?

 

I want it resolved long before two years of course... six months is how long I will for sure keep having interaction with MM through my job and likely traveling together, so it will likely be very difficult to completely extricate before that.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I just heard this brilliant quote. Hope Asaysno and others will benefit. From a YouTube video...

 

"We cling to people who hurt us, when they're not providing us with what we have not yet healed and provided within ourselves." Melanie Tonia Evans