In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[Amethyst68]

I don't know, there's just something in my gut that says OP may have been the agressor on this affair. I mean going home and divorcing your husband after 2hrs is going to send a certain message to a man. Now some men would run, thinking obsessive and no way in hell but others would think they must be superman.

 

As for the recent texts remember we're only getting one side of a 2 way conversation. Who knows which one initiated the work talk about schedules and meet ups.

 

I'm sorry, I guess I'm either missing or just not seeing where OP is being taken advantage of.

 

OP, go NC, if you're on leave there's no need to discuss work, that can be done when you're actually at work. Concentrate on your son, on living a healthy life and not being a 3rd party in a marriage where you have no place being.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

He says, he says, he said, he said...

 

But what has he done? /QUOTE]

 

What has 'SHE' done?

 

Come on, Asaysno, take out that wish bone and replace it with your back bone. Stand up straight already!

[Aloha123]

My gosh this is a great thread. So many gems that I keep repeating over to myself.

 

On thing that really did help me, because my MM's words were so incongruous with his actions -- I decided to *literally* just focus on his actions. Yes I actually believed that he loved me, would have married me if things were different, etc.

BUT, I kind of decided to compartmentalize those concepts, and focus JUST on his actions, contacting me more when he wasn't with his wife, distancing himself when I became too needy, seeing me less and less often, to really evaluate the reality of the situation.

 

I think if you stopped trying to hang your hat on what he says or said (as in omg, he is signing his messages with I Love You again!!), and instead JUST focus on his actions -- you might get the answer regarding which one of you he has chosen and is going to continue to choose.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Communicating about work while on vacation is another way MM is 'managing' Asaysno. It keeps her [hormones] engaged without promising too much. It's carrot on the stick. It fuels Asaysno's curiosity and hope for more (communicating but not about what she wants). Drives the obsession to get what seems 'almost' in reach.

 

Take Orokotikki's advice and study up on intermittent reinforcement!

[heartwhole2]

I don't know, there's just something in my gut that says OP may have been the agressor on this affair. I mean going home and divorcing your husband after 2hrs is going to send a certain message to a man. Now some men would run, thinking obsessive and no way in hell but others would think they must be superman.

 

As for the recent texts remember we're only getting one side of a 2 way conversation. Who knows which one initiated the work talk about schedules and meet ups.

 

I'm sorry, I guess I'm either missing or just not seeing where OP is being taken advantage of.

 

OP, go NC, if you're on leave there's no need to discuss work, that can be done when you're actually at work. Concentrate on your son, on living a healthy life and not being a 3rd party in a marriage where you have no place being.

 

We always have the option for boundaries and refusing to accept how people treat us.

 

My marriage would be better if my wife would only . . .

My job would be better if my boss would only . . .

My affair would be better if MM would only . . .

I could be with MM if BW would only . . .

 

We can only control ourselves. We don't have to stay in a marriage or a job or an affair where we aren't being treated right. We can't just throw our arms up and say, "Well maybe if I keep waiting the other party will make it how I want it to be!" It doesn't work that way. People have no incentive to change when we accept their crap.

[S2B]

I think the hard part of this thread isn’t that the OP is being taken advantage of... it’s that she is willingly offering herself up to being taken advantage of.

 

She IS doing this to herself!

 

He is just going along with her offerings. Not that he’s blame less... he’s just a MM taking in all that his women around him offer to him.

 

He wants as much as he can get while he’s at home and at work. Greedy little guy, eh?

[heartwhole2]

I think the hard part of this thread isn’t that the OP is being taken advantage of... it’s that she is willingly offering herself up to being taken advantage of.

 

She IS doing this to herself!

 

He is just going along with her offerings. Not that he’s blame less... he’s just a MM taking in all that his women around him offer to him.

 

He wants as much as he can get while he’s at home and at work. Greedy little guy, eh?

 

No, no, no, it's not greedy to expose his wife sexually without her knowledge or consent, nor to lie to her and allow her to look ridiculous in front of several of his colleagues, nor to send OP mixed signals so that she will be heartbroken when things inevitably end badly . . . he's doing all of this because he's very selfless. This is how selfless people act, obviously.

[heartwhole2]

You know, we're all guilty of feeling powerless when changing things feels icky. I was complaining about some other adults who were making things unnecessarily difficult and my 9 year old said, "Why don't you just ask them not to do that?" And here I was, complaining as though I was completely powerless.

 

We are all adults and if we don't want to be in a certain situation, then we exit it. Sometimes hanging on to see if the other person/people can change is warranted; this is where self-awareness is key. When we are heavily invested in the situation working out, we are prone to confirmation bias. We see reason to hope in tiny and inconsequential things.

[SpiceCat]

There's no point in beating the OP up. She's simply not ready to let go of the fantasy of her knight in shining armor abandoning his family for her yet. When someone goes so far as to cruelly involve innocent children in an affair, you know they are too far gone for logic.

 

She's one of the ones who is going to have to be smacked in the face with a steaming cow pie before she's ready to let go - and that is coming. I just hope she has a strong support system at home..particularly for the sake of her child.

[BaileyB]

There's no point in beating the OP up. She's simply not ready to let go of the fantasy of her knight in shining armor abandoning his family for her yet. When someone goes so far as to cruelly involve innocent children in an affair, you know they are too far gone for logic.

 

Sadly, I agree with this. When someone says that she has cared for the married man’s child with the wife’s knowledge - with no concept of the fact that this is completely inappropriate and that this woman would go “mama bear” if she knew her child was in the presence and care of the woman who is hoping to break up her family... you are too far gone for logic. To even suggest that you would be fine with it if the roles were reversed... way too far gone for logic.

[BaileyB]

Communicating about work while on vacation is another way MM is 'managing' Asaysno. It keeps her [hormones] engaged without promising too much.

 

Absolutely. Say three little words at the end of the conversation and she is hooked! Three, rather meaningless words...

[SpiceCat]

Sadly, I agree with this. When someone says that she has cared for the married man’s child with the wife’s knowledge - with no concept of the fact that this is completely inappropriate and that this woman would go “mama bear” if she knew her child was in the presence and care of the woman who is hoping to break up her family... you are too far gone for logic. To even suggest that you would be fine with it if the roles were reversed... way too far gone for logic.

 

If I were the wife in this situation I'd rip her to shreds. I can only assume that the OP is suffering from temporary insanity.

 

And yes, the MM is managing her by contacting her while on vacation. The fact that she's overanalyzing every single syllable of his message just goes to show how deep in the fog she is.

 

I'd be willing to bet that she is fantasizing about making the child love her so that MM feels better about leaving his wife for her. Getting close to the child of a person you're dating as a way to get closer to them is not uncommon..but in this case, it would be cruel and abusive on her part.

[heartwhole2]

Yes, the mama bear thing is real. I truly felt bad for the OW right from the start, and I wanted my husband to end things properly for her sake, but I also felt this primal rage that she shouldn't be around my children. If we divorced and he had a different girlfriend, fine, but this woman . . . my instincts said hell to the no.

[BaileyB]

I have a friend who’s father had an affair (long and sad story). She absolutely refused to let him see the grandchildren if he was with the OW. They were together for years after he divorced her mom, the OW was never allowed in her home and he only saw the grandchildren if she was not present. Right or wrong - mama bear.

[finna]

Sadly, I agree with this. When someone says that she has cared for the married man’s child with the wife’s knowledge - with no concept of the fact that this is completely inappropriate and that this woman would go “mama bear” if she knew her child was in the presence and care of the woman who is hoping to break up her family... you are too far gone for logic. To even suggest that you would be fine with it if the roles were reversed... way too far gone for logic.

 

MM was rushed to the emergency room on a couple different occasions due to serious medical issues... there wasn’t a lot of choice in getting him the care he needed and keeping his son safe and comfortable. I did what I could to help out with no thoughts other than making sure everyone was okay.

 

I disagree that this was cruel or inappropriate given the circumstances. We all responded the best we could.

[BaileyB]

I’m not going to say that you shouldn’t take his son if MM is rushed to hospital and the child can not be left alone. Obviously, his safety is first and foremost.

 

Was there absolutely nobody else he could call?

 

The problem here asaysno, you don’t actually see anything “wrong” with this. You have blurred the boundaries of what is inappropriate in so many ways, you have lost all sense of what is appropriate and what is not.

[TheRainbow]

Three weeks ago he called me to break things off, saying he loved me and wanted me to be in his life but he needed to focus on his family (his wife is truly mentally unstable and manipulative and he is afraid/guilty she will do something crazy as well as not be able to help care for their five year old son).

 

Have you ever met his wife or are you just basing your opinion on what he told you? I have to say he's predictable. He only told you he was going to divorce his wife, to string you along. He wanted you on the side and his wife at home. But now that contact had been limited, he is dropping you because it's no longer convenient for him. If he truly loved you as he said, he'd be with you.

[finna]

Have you ever met his wife or are you just basing your opinion on what he told you? I have to say he's predictable. He only told you he was going to divorce his wife, to string you along. He wanted you on the side and his wife at home. But now that contact had been limited, he is dropping you because it's no longer convenient for him. If he truly loved you as he said, he'd be with you.

 

Yes- I have met his wife in person several times. I have also witnessed plenty of behavior that is the basis for my observations.

[finna]

I’m not going to say that you shouldn’t take his son if MM is rushed to hospital and the child can not be left alone. Obviously, his safety is first and foremost.

 

Was there absolutely nobody else he could call?

 

The problem here asaysno, you don’t actually see anything “wrong” with this. You have blurred the boundaries of what is inappropriate in so many ways, you have lost all sense of what is appropriate and what is not.

 

There was not anyone else due to time and location. They were not at home.

[elaine567]

Truth is, does it really matter if asaysno looked after the son in an emergency when her MM went into hospital or not?

 

The BIGGER problem here is that she is messing around with a guy who has a child.

A child that is going to be seriously impacted due to his father's inability to keep it in his pants and asyasno's inability to say no to him.

A child who in an instant could lose his stable upbringing due to the selfishness of his father.

A child who is probably already suffering due to his father's mind being "elsewhere"...

[pepperbird]

op,

I'll say it again. You sound like such a nice person, but this affair is changing you.

You don't see anything wrong with how you watch this woman's child, have met her and even interacted with her while you're sleeping with her husband and it doesn't seem to phase you one bit. You make excuses as to why it's okay.

 

How can you lie like that? how can you possibly feel good about it? Not only do you lie to his wife, even if just by omission, you have now included his son in the lie. Unless your mm was having a heart attack, stroke, or other immediately life or death situation, there are other alternatives he could have chosen besides you.

 

Let me ask you this if you don't believe me. Before you got involved with a married man, what would you have thought about this situation? Would you have thought it was okay? If not, then why is it okay now? That's what I mean about changing you. A lot of people try and excuse it with " life's not black and white, it's shades of grey" thinking, but all that means is they know they are doing something that doesn't really mesh with who they are.

[anika99]

MM was rushed to the emergency room on a couple different occasions due to serious medical issues... there wasn’t a lot of choice in getting him the care he needed and keeping his son safe and comfortable. I did what I could to help out with no thoughts other than making sure everyone was okay.

 

I disagree that this was cruel or inappropriate given the circumstances. We all responded the best we could.

 

Oh puleeze! No woman would knowingly leave her children in the care of the OW. She thought you were a concerned friend offering a convenient solution to an immediate problem. If she had any inkling of who you really are she definitely would have come up with a better plan.If she had discovered the affair just minutes before her husband needed to go to the hospital do you really think she would have allowed you to babysit? You made a fool of her while using her children to score some brownie points with her husband.

[heartwhole2]

The details of the affair (coworkers knowing, taking care of child) will certainly make it more difficult for her to transition into a real life relationship, but none of us think that's a real possibility anyway. Yes, this affair is more egregious than some, but either way it's an affair.

 

Asaysno, have you looked into counselors yet? You could use the help no matter the outcome. Either you'll be transitioning into a stressful (because of the divorce on his end) long-distance relationship or you'll be dealing with heartache (either privately or publicly after a DDay).

[S2B]

Yes- I have met his wife in person several times. I have also witnessed plenty of behavior that is the basis for my observations.

 

Her instability could easily be because her husband has been lying to her and cheating on her.

 

It does drive a person crazy when you feel the cheater is cheating but you can’t prove it.

 

It could be his actions causing her mental issues.

 

He’s not selfless. He only thinks of himself.

[heartwhole2]

It doesn't even matter. Let's say BW is like, 78% not a good person. She's "truly mentally unstable" and manipulative and all of that.

 

Is there a measure of goodness below which it's OK to cheat on our spouses? Only the saints can expect honesty and fidelity, and everyone else forfeits it by their lack of perfection?

 

Having a reason to divorce is not the same as having a reason to have an affair. We're all free to get divorced. The fact that we don't feel like divorce is a preferred option doesn't give us license to rob our spouses of their autonomy and truth, and to expose them sexually without their knowledge or consent.