In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I'm a BW whose husband had created a set of justifications that were easily popped like hitting a balloon with a dart. I've seen so many OW base their life....and exposure and upheaval. Are you willing to take that bet?

 

I must say that this entire post is possibly the most honest, enlightened, and reasonable assessment I've ever seen from a BS. As a fOW, I agree with its assessments. This is a BS who has done her work. All members of the triangle have painful stuff to work through. Not an easy task for anyone.

[Aloha123]

He is a moving target. He wants both situations and will do and say whatever he wants/is feeling a the moment to maintain that status quo. He does not want to have to choose and so he won't. It's really that simple.

 

The only thing you will ever be, AT BEST, is the other woman. Now, you can absolutely decide that is what you want or are willing to settle for (which, by the way, is what I chose from the beginning because he always told me he was never leaving his wife), but do it with your eyes wide open, not under any illusions based on empty promises.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Aloha123

[Amethyst68]

I think it's clear OP will be happy to stay the OW at the moment. All the MM will need to do is form some vague plan for the future and she'll fill in the blanks to suit.

 

OP, do you plan to meet his family next week or will you show the proper respect and stay away?

[finna]

Thank you. It has only been three weeks since we went from solidly planning a future together to this current upheaval. I know we both want to “do the right thing” - whatever that means... it is difficult when so many feelings are involved that represent joyful times, following one’s heart, etc.

 

I’ve heard relatively little from him over the past few days, and certainly no “I miss you” type of sentiments, much less anything to do with love. It is a sad new paradigm for me- even if it is ultimately for the best. To be honest it’s just a really lonely place to be. I have a support system of friends and family but people don’t want to continually talk about this, and the daily intimacy that I had with him is what I really miss anyway.

 

I suspect it’s going to be a long road.

 

 

 

I'm a BW whose husband had created a set of justifications that were easily popped like hitting a balloon with a dart. I've seen so many OW base their life plans on the justifications of a MM, so when I can I like to share my perspective in case it will help.

 

MM (and their OW) like to think that it's possible to have an affair and for its impact on the marriage to be net-neutral, but the truth is that the grass is greenest where the MM is watering it. His marital grass is going brown from his neglect and then he's saying, "Well look how brown my marriage is! No wonder I need to have an affair!" Vicious cycle.

 

MM who have some morals and empathy will need to vilify the BW in order to cheat on her. So he will engage in confirmation bias and will read malice and manipulation into all of her actions, and he will then react like he would to a manipulative and malicious person. Unless the BW is Mother Theresa, she will probably respond in kind with frustration, resentment, and acting out. Vicious cycle.

 

In order for any relationship to thrive, the participants need to be self-aware (and your MM is minimizing, blame-shifting, and engaging in confirmation bias, so that's not him). They need to give each other the benefit of the doubt that when they say they don't feel well, they really don't. When they say they need something, they really do. Which came first, MM viewing BW as an enemy or him cheating on her? I believe this is a lot less black and white than most OW believe. Only a fool thinks he can improve a relationship while secretly bringing a third party into it.

 

If you wind up with MM some day, he will still be the guy lacking self-awareness. He will still only know how to be in a transactional relationship, not a transformative one. He will still be the fool who thinks the rules don't apply to him when he feels like it.

 

It's highly unlikely that his cheating was simply caused by a terrible marriage outside of his control. It's much more likely that his cheating was caused by the same character issues that make his marriage unhealthy.

 

I've read that 10% of MM leave for the OW. Of those, 3 out of 10 will marry, and then they have a 75% divorce rate, leaving a whopping of 0.75% of affair couples who remain married until death, though to be fair there may be couples who do not admit to affairs who make it. Of the two-thirds of marriages that stay together after infidelity (the discrepancy is because many couples divorce but the MM and OW do not wind up together), a third of those will be transformed like mine has been.

 

It takes a big catalyst for someone to enter therapy and work hard to unlearn unhealthy coping mechanisms and to develop resilience and maturity. Being some selfish cake-eater and then realizing you are actually going to lose your wife and children is such a catalyst. Even then, it takes time . . . years . . . to become a different and better person. Will he be motivated to make those changes in the midst of a messy divorce, when the OW was perfectly happy with him when he was a cheater? Probably not. Selfish cake-eater will think, "Well, she knew what she was getting into." So even in the rare circumstances you do wind up together, it will just be MM's Dysfunctional Attempts at a Relationship, Part II.

 

Women can put a lot of stock in feelings. He has feelings for me so he must be serious. I'm showing him happiness but he's too cowardly to choose it for himself . . .

 

The truth is that it's not our circumstances that make us happy or unhappy. I would still be happy and whole if my husband had left on DDay (after a period of grieving, of course). MM's house cannot be a happy home because he only knows how to be a good partner in the absence of conflict. Every relationship will have conflict, but the nature of an affair induces the OW to deny her feelings and accept the unacceptable.

 

I'm positive my husband's feelings for the OW felt very real at the time. I mean, he confessed on DDay thinking I would throw him out, I believe. But when I expressed shock and horror, he backtracked. The world he'd constructed where I didn't care and everything little thing I did confirmed it evaporated. By the second or third week he was chirpily exclaiming, "I can't believe I don't miss her more! I thought this would be harder!" Me, me, me.

 

He was genuinely in love with how the affair made him feel. He was appallingly not concerned about her well-being after he'd written her off. "She knew what she was getting into" was a direct quote. I do believe he felt some guilt about her. He mentioned in therapy that it resonated for him when he read a passage in a book about infidelity that we were reading that mentioned how the MM stole time from the OW when she could have been finding a husband and having children like she wanted. But mostly he took those bad feelings and stuck them in a box, just like he did with everything negative before having an affair.

 

I was never a callous person who didn't want to know how he felt; he simply hated conflict so much that he didn't share it. His only complaints on DDay were that I didn't ask about his day enough and I didn't walk around town with him any more (I was suffering from undiagnosed chronic fatigue). Imagine my perspective . . . was this a man who making my chronic illness easier to bear? Was he empathizing with my struggles? Was he giving me the benefit of the doubt that I was doing my best? No, no, no. Vicious cycle.

 

It will be very, very hard work to have a virtuous cycle with this man. He's not equipped for it. You will have to endure a messy divorce, scandal, blame, and shame. He can't handle minor to moderate marital discord, and you expect him to handle this? The odds are not in your favor.

 

Whether you continue to invest in this relationship or not, I hope you will invest in figuring out how this all happened from your end. Surely the logical side of you knows that this isn't how life-long partnerships are formed. How is your self-esteem? Your maturity? Your resilience? Your empathy? How are your conflict resolution skills? How has investing in this hidden relationship removed you from opportunities to connect with other people? What are you risking? In what ways is the forbidden nature of an affair augmenting and perpetuating feelings that may have waned in a regular relationship by now?

 

After the affair I looked at my husband's OW's social media from time to time. She posted things about her sorrow and heartbreak for a long time. I'm sure she hoped he would see it, but he put her in the "This feels icky!" box and locked her away. But I looked. Of course I had many complicated feelings about all of this, but my heart would drop every time she wrote about her heartache. I thought I married someone caring and smart enough not to do that to another person. I felt responsible by proxy, though I know I was not. I hope you can dig deep and find the strength you need to choose good things for yourself and others. Affairs of the heart only work when the participants convince themselves they're being loving and doing good by engaging in them. But if that were the case, then your love would stand up to scrutiny and exposure and upheaval. Are you willing to take that bet?

[finna]

My inclination is to stay away but there may be some unavoidable dinners and such where everyone may be expected to be present.

 

 

I think it's clear OP will be happy to stay the OW at the moment. All the MM will need to do is form some vague plan for the future and she'll fill in the blanks to suit.

 

OP, do you plan to meet his family next week or will you show the proper respect and stay away?

[heartwhole2]

Thank you. It has only been three weeks since we went from solidly planning a future together to this current upheaval. I know we both want to “do the right thing” - whatever that means... it is difficult when so many feelings are involved that represent joyful times, following one’s heart, etc.

 

I’ve heard relatively little from him over the past few days, and certainly no “I miss you” type of sentiments, much less anything to do with love. It is a sad new paradigm for me- even if it is ultimately for the best. To be honest it’s just a really lonely place to be. I have a support system of friends and family but people don’t want to continually talk about this, and the daily intimacy that I had with him is what I really miss anyway.

 

I suspect it’s going to be a long road.

 

Yes, I understand not feeling you can talk about it as much as you'd like with your support system. I've made some wonderful BW friends online that have allowed me an outlet for that. Once you have a certain number of posts you'll be able to PM with people here. I'm sure there are other OW who will be happy to be penpals.

 

We all need to know others and be known. But first, get to know yourself! Once you do that, healthy friendships and romances will develop organically.

[BaileyB]

I don’t think he is actively planning to leave her- not at this point. He has said as much with breaking it off with me

 

This is one thing...

 

But I also know that he is conflicted and that his marriage is still miserable in many ways... so who knows if/when the next flip flop will be.

 

But now, let me tell you how I really feel... I still have hope, because he is conflicted, and the marriage is miserable, and I’m seeing him next week, and he texted me asking how I’m doing today, and I’m still really hoping that he will flip flop again...

 

Hun, you are going to drive yourself crazy waiting and hoping for a different outcome here. I know, you say you are not waiting and hoping, but you are waiting and hoping.

 

I still have very strong feelings and am trying to figure out if/where any sort of relationship fits into all this... colleagues, friends, more, whatever.

 

You can’t be friends with a man when you want to be more than friends... You will be back in the affair, you just won’t be able to do it.

[finna]

No doubt about it - I am hoping... I can’t help it right now. I am trying to be strong but the fact that I woke up so joyfully in his arms two days ago yet have no certainty about the future is a rough place to be. I know this likely will not work out at all in the longer term but the loving and the missing is tough. It would be better in a lot of ways if we never interacted again but that’s not possible... and the thought of not seeing him ever makes me feel sick. Then I think maybe it would be easier if he weren’t trying to be so kind about it, but then that’s a horrible thought as well.

 

I know I will go through the cycle of grief and it may take months or years to get over this- or quite possibly some version of the pain will always be there and will have to be lived with. I don’t mean to sound overly dramatic- this is only the third guy I’ve ever loved and quite possibly the only one I’ve been in love with (I was not “in love” with my ex-h). The physical pain that hits several times a day is nearly unbearable.

 

I know people say it gets easier but with as much time as we will be spending together in the next few months I’m not sure it is going to get easier any time soon.

 

 

This is one thing...

 

 

 

But now, let me tell you how I really feel... I still have hope, because he is conflicted, and the marriage is miserable, and I’m seeing him next week, and he texted me asking how I’m doing today, and I’m still really hoping that he will flip flop again...

 

Hun, you are going to drive yourself crazy waiting and hoping for a different outcome here. I know, you say you are not waiting and hoping, but you are waiting and hoping.

 

 

 

You can’t be friends with a man when you want to be more than friends... You will be back in the affair, you just won’t be able to do it.

[heartwhole2]

What would you do if this were a public relationship between coworkers? People break up. You will have to navigate that. You may need to find a different job or ask to be transferred so that you don't work together.

 

"We have to see each other because we work together" is just an excuse that seems more unyielding than it really is because your relationship is a secret.

 

If you have a DDay, you will almost certainly wind up not working together any more. So you may as well be prepared to protect yourself professionally.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Thank you. It has only been three weeks since we went from solidly planning a future together to this current upheaval. I know we both want to “do the right thing” - whatever that means... it is difficult when so many feelings are involved that represent joyful times, following one’s heart, etc.

 

I’ve heard relatively little from him over the past few days, and certainly no “I miss you” type of sentiments, much less anything to do with love. It is a sad new paradigm for me- even if it is ultimately for the best. To be honest it’s just a really lonely place to be. I have a support system of friends and family but people don’t want to continually talk about this, and the daily intimacy that I had with him is what I really miss anyway.

 

I suspect itÂ’s going to be a long road.

 

"we went from solidly planning a future together" - future faking

 

"IÂ’ve heard relatively little from him over the past few days" - this is discouraging about the truth of your relationship...sorry!

 

"I suspect itÂ’s going to be a long road."- this is very encouraging for your future (assuming you are charting your course without him). Not easy, but heading in the right direction!

 

I'm adding two bits of information about my own story not anywhere else on LS (hopefully insightful to you):

 

1) My "relationship" with xMM evolved over 3.5 years. Our initial break at the end of 2016 was well documented on LS. After nine months of NC, I broke NC bc I was going to be at his office meeting with someone else...after much ruminating with my individual counselor about being in such close proximity to him after NC, she helped me draft a "closure" letter that I read to him the day I was there. That was early July 2017. We communicated throughout the remainder of 2017, until I had an epiphany at New Years Day 2018 about how doing so was creating havoc and stress in my life. I told him off for his stonewalling, etc. and went silent after that. Then, in July 2018, I was panicked about an urgent family matter in which he was an expert. I needed an answer that evening and couldn't think of anyone else who could get me what I needed so I apologetically reached out. He apologized, we had a nice conversation, he was eager to support and help. I appreciate his assistance. We continued pleasantly communicating until Feb 12, 2019, with little conflict. This last go around I learned to have zero expectations and just enjoy his chats as they came, the same as I do with my other friends. The last message I sent him on Feb 12, 2019 was so utterly benign--a story about guessing an elderly couple's national origin. I have not heard from him since. The messenger app indicated he read my story, but he did not reply whatsoever. I have been so angry about the sheer disregard, disrespect, and devaluation in which he behaved towards me. At least he could have said goodbye or that he wouldn't be available for awhile (or ever)...but instead he just disappeared. I will never forgive this, especially after all the graciousness, selflessness, etc. that I have shown him over all the years.

 

2) In Dec 2017, I began talking to a guy who I eventually decided in Feb 2018 to give a chance. After a couple months, I remember thinking how this guy was toppling xMM's pedestal with ease. I had an ongoing interest with this guy for about a year. Although it didn't work out for unrelated reasons, I learned that there were things in new guy which I was MORE attracted to than xMM and that I could have a much better life with someone besides xMM. I also lost almost all my sexual attraction to xMM after focusing on new guy. That was so huge, bc up to then, I never thought anyone would be able to replace xMM in my heart.

 

Long road ahead indeed...some days will be better than others. Some days you will question if leaving MM behind is the right decision...it is! Just stay the course. It gets better. Better is out there for you!

[finna]

Yes - and maybe not even room for that (being OW).

 

Bringing the family is neither here nor there for me- this is no different than other similar circumstances when they came down for a long weekend between work weeks so that he could spend time with his son since he travels so much (250+ nights a year). But no, I don’t expect him to leave directly after or anything like that... maybe never at this point.

 

 

How do you figure this is likely to get better for YOU when his intention is to keep you as an OW at HIS convenience?

 

 

Evidence shows he wouldn’t be planning to leave his wife if he’s bringing his family together for an anniversary he’s celebrating!

 

He likes you as his OW... and as long as YOU will settle for that he will continue to see you when it’s convenient - all the while he lies to those he says he loves.

 

That’s not love - love doesn’t look like that.

 

He created this fantasy so you continue to step up to his fantasy table - but your gut says it really is a fantasy. Because he’s a liar and a cheater - he’s made himself impossible to believe.

 

There’s only room for you as his OW - he’s being clear - know that.

[finna]

Likely I would figure out how to suck it up in that circumstance as well. We both have our “dream job”. I don’t wish either of us to sacrifice that because of the relationship. Eventually we can schedule to travel less together if we want... but we are more or less locked in for the remainder of 2019.

 

The only Dday possibility would be with his wife, and likely he just wouldn’t say that I was there on future trips... she would have no real way to know one way or the other.

 

 

 

What would you do if this were a public relationship between coworkers? People break up. You will have to navigate that. You may need to find a different job or ask to be transferred so that you don't work together.

 

"We have to see each other because we work together" is just an excuse that seems more unyielding than it really is because your relationship is a secret.

 

If you have a DDay, you will almost certainly wind up not working together any more. So you may as well be prepared to protect yourself professionally.

[finna]

I’m really debating whether I’m okay with that right now. In some ways time with him when we can get it is fine. Eventually, I will likely want a “full” relationship with someone, but right now I’m not sure that I do.

 

He is a moving target. He wants both situations and will do and say whatever he wants/is feeling a the moment to maintain that status quo. He does not want to have to choose and so he won't. It's really that simple.

 

The only thing you will ever be, AT BEST, is the other woman. Now, you can absolutely decide that is what you want or are willing to settle for (which, by the way, is what I chose from the beginning because he always told me he was never leaving his wife), but do it with your eyes wide open, not under any illusions based on empty promises.

[mark clemson]

I know I will go through the cycle of grief and it may take months or years to get over this- or quite possibly some version of the pain will always be there and will have to be lived with. I don’t mean to sound overly dramatic- this is only the third guy I’ve ever loved and quite possibly the only one I’ve been in love with (I was not “in love” with my ex-h). The physical pain that hits several times a day is nearly unbearable.

 

I know people say it gets easier but with as much time as we will be spending together in the next few months I’m not sure it is going to get easier any time soon.

 

 

Well, you're right that your distress will take a long time to fade. If/when you stop seeing him one day it WILL eventually fade though. But yes, it will most likely take months to fully go away...

[Amethyst68]

You are very nonchalant about discovery and exposure, could it be that you are hoping fit it thinking it will push your MM to choose you?

 

I would be careful, your colleagues almost certainly suspect if not know what's going on. You may think your employer won't care but when it comes to their corporate image most companies err on the side of protecting that identity, especially if their employees are perceived to be messing about company time. If his BW has her suspicions confirmed and goes for full exposure, are you prepared for the fall out?

[LIRR88]

Your situation sounds exactly like mine. I could say the same thing, my MM is the love of my life, no one has ever made me feel like he makes me feel and I’m certain he felt the same way about me. At one point he said he didn’t even care if his wife found out or not because he really just wanted to be with me, but then reality set in. The fact that she’d financially ruin him and he’d only see his daughter twice a week weighed heavy on him and he just couldn’t pull the plug. Listen to everyone here. If he was that miserable he’d leave, and you never know, maybe one day he will... however don’t put your life on hold for him. As painful as it is please believe that you deserve to be with someone who’s available and will make you a priority in his life.

[finna]

The main colleague we travel with is aware of and sympathetic to the situation, having gone through something similar himself (he actually divorced his first wife to marry his AF - rare, I know). He is a good friend to us both and has been for a long time. My ex is aware of the situation as is another of MM’s good work friends. Most of us work remotely when we are not traveling so there is little opportunity for “water cooler gossip”.

 

I don’t really know what damage BW could do in terms of “evidence” - there really isn’t any so it would be her word alone... all the trips we have taken have been for well-documented legitimate business needs where we were both required to be there... in fact they were all scheduled for 2019 before the affair began.

 

Am I missing some component to this? I really am not threatened by anything she would do that I can think of.

 

You are very nonchalant about discovery and exposure, could it be that you are hoping fit it thinking it will push your MM to choose you?

 

I would be careful, your colleagues almost certainly suspect if not know what's going on. You may think your employer won't care but when it comes to their corporate image most companies err on the side of protecting that identity, especially if their employees are perceived to be messing about company time. If his BW has her suspicions confirmed and goes for full exposure, are you prepared for the fall out?

[finna]

I really appreciate your perspective- for me it’s still about coming to terms with this new reality and letting go of a very unique combination of similar attributes and interests that would be rare for me to find again - especially where I live and work. How many guys do you know that enjoy bagpipes, history, Guinness, kilts, English football, world travel, all sorts of adventure, country music, road trips, cars, camping, and exotic food?

 

 

Your situation sounds exactly like mine. I could say the same thing, my MM is the love of my life, no one has ever made me feel like he makes me feel and I’m certain he felt the same way about me. At one point he said he didn’t even care if his wife found out or not because he really just wanted to be with me, but then reality set in. The fact that she’d financially ruin him and he’d only see his daughter twice a week weighed heavy on him and he just couldn’t pull the plug. Listen to everyone here. If he was that miserable he’d leave, and you never know, maybe one day he will... however don’t put your life on hold for him. As painful as it is please believe that you deserve to be with someone who’s available and will make you a priority in his life.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I really appreciate your perspective- for me it’s still about coming to terms with this new reality and letting go of a very unique combination of similar attributes and interests that would be rare for me to find again - especially where I live and work. How many guys do you know that enjoy bagpipes, history, Guinness, kilts, English football, world travel, all sorts of adventure, country music, road trips, cars, camping, and exotic food?

 

Based on the above, I suggest creating a dating profile on a Scottish/Irish dating site.

 

I think I'm drawn to your thread because I see you making many of the same mistakes I made...expensive mistakes!!!

 

asaysno, you are in deep denial right now. Your hormones have officially taken over and you are addicted. Leaving your MM behind is akin to quitting a powerful opioid drug (literally!), and you are not ready to give it up.

 

Your perspective is that MM is confused but his love for you will ultimately win him over to you...just give him time to see you are the right choice.

 

His perspective is to manage down your expectations...down, down, down, down, down as time goes on. Then he can accomplish either one of the following two things:

 

1) You will come to expect less and less so he will get what he wants from you with little to no effort on his part;

 

2) He will gradually pull away hoping you won't notice he is trying to bring a permanent end to things. MM do this when they realize your expectations have increased (they over-promised/love bombed) but won't deliver. That way you won't blow up his life.

 

You mentioned recently learning about codependency and think his wife is codependent. Sometimes OW project onto the BS. I think you should explore codependency. There are great videos on YouTube. Alan Robard is one therapist on YouTube that comes to mind. One aspect of co-dependency is self-sacrificing for someone else to the point of one's own detriment, and expecting that other person to repay this sacrifice in kind. Delving into learning about co-dependency is going to bring you lots of clarity and make you feel more in control, so you will feel less pain in missing MM. The uncertainty in dealing with a MM or MW is a killer, and it's mainly because you feel powerless (i.e. out of control) in the situation. You are looking to the other person (i.e. MM) to guide you instead of guiding yourself. [Actually, in some ways, you have allowed him to take a paternal role over you. If you're brave, this can be an opportunity to resolve some deep stuff within you, and you will emerge a better person for it. Start with the YouTube videos and then consider individual counseling.]

Edited June 3, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel

[BaileyB]

For me it’s still about coming to terms with this new reality and letting go of a very unique combination of similar attributes and interests that would be rare for me to find again. How many guys do you know that enjoy bagpipes, history, Guinness, kilts, English football, world travel, all sorts of adventure, country music, road trips, cars, camping, and exotic food?

 

It goes without saying, but I would suggest that finding a partner who likes bagpipes and Guinness is about as important as finding a job that allows you to put a plant on your desk and drink your favourite tea while working...

 

As wonderful as it is to find a partner who shares your interests, it pales in comparison to finding a partner who is honest, dependable, reliable, trustworthy, faithful, and available to commit to a long term relationship. At this point, he has yet to demonstrate any of those qualities toward you that are of the upmost importance when choosing a life partner...

[finna]

I appreciate all your thoughts and perspective. I don’t think it’s that I’m in denial (I always knew this could be the outcome) as it is that every time I try to face this head on I am consumed by the pain of loss and grief... and then (maybe this is the denial part) MM will do something to make me think he is still very interested and cares about me.

 

I will likely know more in the next few days on where he is at, and then I feel like I can make better decisions since I will have current information. I am preparing to be resolute with my stance but I’m not yet strong enough to lead with that before I hear what he has to say... I know that will merit some criticism from some folks here but that’s where I’m at for now.

 

I do think he may be trying to gradually pull away although he is the one who keeps reaching out at this point - although as I’ve said the tone has changed... it is definitely not stuff you would share with just a friend, but no gooey relationship talk either. It feels like he keeps trying to make connections but in a slightly different way... I’m not sure exactly.

 

 

 

Based on the above, I suggest creating a dating profile on a Scottish/Irish dating site.

 

I think I'm drawn to your thread because I see you making many of the same mistakes I made...expensive mistakes!!!

 

asaysno, you are in deep denial right now. Your hormones have officially taken over and you are addicted. Leaving your MM behind is akin to quitting a powerful opioid drug (literally!), and you are not ready to give it up.

 

Your perspective is that MM is confused but his love for you will ultimately win him over to you...just give him time to see you are the right choice.

 

His perspective is to manage down your expectations...down, down, down, down, down as time goes on. Then he can accomplish either one of the following two things:

 

1) You will come to expect less and less so he will get what he wants from you with little to no effort on his part;

 

2) He will gradually pull away hoping you won't notice he is trying to bring a permanent end to things. MM do this when they realize your expectations have increased (they over-promised/love bombed) but won't deliver. That way you won't blow up his life.

 

You mentioned recently learning about codependency and think his wife is codependent. Sometimes OW project onto the BS. I think you should explore codependency. There are great videos on YouTube. Alan Robard is one therapist on YouTube that comes to mind. One aspect of co-dependency is self-sacrificing for someone else to the point of one's own detriment, and expecting that other person to repay this sacrifice in kind. Delving into learning about co-dependency is going to bring you lots of clarity and make you feel more in control, so you will feel less pain in missing MM. The uncertainty in dealing with a MM or MW is a killer, and it's mainly because you feel powerless (i.e. out of control) in the situation. You are looking to the other person (i.e. MM) to guide you instead of guiding yourself.

[Amethyst68]

OP, you've just described almost every man I know, well minus the English football, you'd have to substitute any other country. Got most of the men I know insert Scotland, Italy, Ireland

[PhoenixRising8]

OP, you are now where I was October 2018. It may get better for you, but the odds are it will only get worse.

 

Until 3 weeks ago, you were planning your life together and then out of nowhere, he dropped you. Now you are in limbo. Here's my story in a nutshell:

 

Met in March/18 and by end of May we were talking about a future. Shortly after, I left my H. Like you, I knew it was the right thing to do. I had been emotionally vacated from the M for years and I finally found my strength. Didn't leave FOR xMM, but he was the catalyst for sure.

 

Spent most of Aug/18 'living together' because BS was out of country. It was bliss, just like it had been the entire time since March. He was adamant this was how he wanted to live the rest of his life with me, as life partners, not just as we were.

 

Mid September, she tells him she's 'done' and he says that's fine because I want a separation. I guess he expected she would say OK fine. But she was blind-sided, hurt and angry and she showed it. He thought she didn’t care. At this point, she didn't suspect he was cheating. He seized an opportunity but had not pre-planned and was unprepared. Told me he had to at least make a show of 'trying' but DID NOT drop me. We talked about maybe ending it for a period as I said it's hard to try if I'm in the picture, but it was hard for both of us so we continued seeing each other.

 

So in September and October, the 'reason' was to let her down gently and to deal with his feelings of guilt. I understood because I had feelings of guilt over walking away from a decades long relationship, so why wouldn't he?

 

In November the 'reason' was that she was returning to work having been on disability for over a year for depression (news to me) so he didn't want to upset the apple cart and wanted her to return to work because then she would have the financial wherewithal to support herself. OK, makes sense ... Then he had to help her figure out her pension status and negotiate her early retirement. OK, I get it. He's been the finance person in the marriage. Got to help so he can move on. December of course is holiday season so can't leave then, right? He would do so in January.

 

Well January comes around and now they have to go to Hawaii with their best friends, who also happen to be his bosses. They went end of 2015 and this time again, the BFFs/bosses are paying air and accommodation. End of February, we break up for almost a month because I've grown tired of the flip flops and I've been patient. He comes back in tears with a sappy love song and realized he couldn't walk away from me, he was miserable and he was going to make it happen before the end of June as he had the house to get ready for sale and wanted to make sure his son got a good foothold in his new job and his daughter got a co-op. OK, I get it. End of April, I notice subtle things that give me cause to wonder if he hasn't flopped again and he admits he's having one of his moments again and that was it. I had been patient, understanding and he was becoming comfortable with his role in a plural relationship status.

 

My xMM has kids in their late 20's but he was having a hard time 'pulling the trigger' because it would wreak havoc on them! Your MM has a young child. My xMM lives 50 miles from me, not 5,000 and the kids were still a factor. Imagine how it would be for yours.

 

My xMM pulled all sorts of stunts to get her to throw him out so he wouldn't be the bad guy. He didn't run right away. He left her on her birthday and Valentine's day to be with me. He spent 1 or 2 nights overnight with me where he doesn't have a built-in business excuse as his business is local. She wouldn't toss him out. In fact, she went on a campaign to make plans and pay attention, something she apparently hadn't done for years. And she let him have his mid life crises because she knew he was conflict avoidant and he ultimately would take the path of least resistance, and she was right.

 

So here's where I went wrong. The first time in September when he was contemplating giving the M a half hearted try, I should have exited. But neither of us wanted to give the other up. Had I walked, he would have realized I wouldn't be placed in a box. He would have either worked on his marriage or ultimately left. But I made it easy for him to have both of us, as did BS. Had I left then, I would be so much farther ahead NOW. He would have either left her by now and we'd be together or I would have been past the worst of my angst. But I facilitated his vascillation and prolonged my own pain.

 

I have spent a lot of time wondering and digging deep into what is it that led me to go against every value I ever had for the 'love' of this man. And I've wondered how I could love someone who was lying, cheating and manipulating every day for a year, someone who was actually being cruel to his wife and mother of his children. The answer is, I can't really love someone like that. I love how he made me feel for the first part of the R but I hate him for the last part and how he treated both of us. Someone who could knowingly treat people he professes to love that way is not a lovable person. Not in the least. It's all an illusion, a fantasy. It isn't real.

 

Ask yourself why you are on LS. Maybe like me, subconsciously you know this is going in the wrong direction so you post on here to validate your assumptions. I wanted people to say, 'Oh yes, he spent the night with you on her birthday. He really loves you! Don't worry'. Instead they were horrified. They said all the things to me that they are saying to you but I thought (and he said many times) we were meant to be together, we are so compatible, in synch, have so much in common, love of each others' lives and so on. Maybe so, but when he did the cost/benefit analysis, the cost was too great. You may be able to deal with the flip flopping now but it wears on you. You stop being the fun girlfriend and start to be more like the wife – airing complaints, pressuring for a decision, nagging, telling him he’s being unfair to both and now you aren’t making him feel good about himself anymore. You have become her. So why should he leave? Staying where he is costs him nothing.

 

Don’t believe me – read What_Did_I_Do’s story. Her xMM left twice and went back. If you already left, why go back? Finding My Way’s xMM left for two years and went back! Read a thread ‘Destabilization Phase’. It’s 2 years old and a lengthy discussion between OWs and OMs. Even Oms like Jenkins, Rumble and OutOfMySystem loved their OWs but went back to their wives. They miss their OWs but decided in the final analysis that the cost would be to great. And then there’s that age old question: if she’ll cheat with me …

 

Do yourself a favour and walk now. If he’s going to do it, he will. Don’t facilitate his flip flopping because he will become accustomed to it and you will get less and less. Or do it your way and be back here 6 months later that he’s still indecisive. Just remember, making no decision is in fact a decision.

[finna]

I agree of course with the overall message of your post... one of the things that I am grieving is how effortless it was for us to have a joyful time together- we have 90% common interests with just enough differences to be interesting and have things unique to ourselves. Even after a very hard day at work - it was so easy to find stuff to do together that we loved... I have never experienced this kind of compatibility with anyone and am very much missing that piece.

 

 

It goes without saying, but I would suggest that finding a partner who likes bagpipes and Guinness is about as important as finding a job that allows you to put a plant on your desk and drink your favourite tea while working...

 

As wonderful as it is to find a partner who shares your interests, it pales in comparison to finding a partner who is honest, dependable, reliable, trustworthy, faithful, and available to commit to a long term relationship. At this point, he has yet to demonstrate any of those qualities toward you that are of the upmost importance when choosing a life partner...

[BaileyB]

Even after a very hard day at work - it was so easy to find stuff to do together that we loved... I have never experienced this kind of compatibility with anyone and am very much missing that piece.

 

I hear you, I do. But, unless he is a man that you can trust and depend on - who is committed to you and you alone - the relationship has no legs to stand on... It will not last, or be what you truly want it to be, as you are currently discovering...