In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

On another matter as a Finance Officer with many years experience I'm constantly surprised when you describe your company practices when it comes to travel. There seems to be no regulation at all. You get to add additional days, extra locations, no-one seems to question when you and MM consistently travel together throughout these changes. It's just never queried.

 

In the organisation I work for all of these things would be looked at especially if they were happening consistently over a period of time. You and MM seem to be able to suit yourselves, it just seems strange.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Seems super loosy-goosy! I'm very curious what type of work/industry this is.

[S2B]

A MM stealing any time away from his family to see you is a liar when he says he’s focusing on his family.

 

Time and money spent on you takes away from his wife/child.

 

He’s not selfless. He’s not kind and loving. He’s not honoring his vows.

 

He’s a cheater and a liar.

 

What makes you think he would treat you any better than the person he committed his life to?

[lana-banana]

Would you see it as being “used” if there were no sex? I am trying to understand your perspective.

 

It always blows my mind when folks insist their AP must truly love them and care for them because they aren't having sex. Think about it for just ten seconds. I am a happily married lady, but if you told me I could also carry on with a guy who was completely obsessed with me; offered all the fun and excitement and infatuation of a new relationship with ZERO of the day-to-day talk about bills, chores, etc; hung on my every word in conversation; took me to restaurants and went on romantic dates, but never had to go to the DMV or the doctor; adored me and constantly pumped up my ego; and was only around when I wanted him to be around---and I could leave whenever and drop him for however long, and he'd still be waiting when I came back---are you kidding? That sounds amazing. An affair partner is a totally awesome thing to have in your life if you don't care about the damage you do to other people involved.

 

Your entire life revolves around this man. Everything he says, every meeting you have, determines your entire future. And you're willing to wait two entire YEARS for him to decide to put you first even when he's explicitly told you that isn't going to happen. He's not leaving his wife. He's not going to quit engaging in an affair when it suits him. Honestly in this case I don't think he is using you because he's told you this is how things are. You, inexplicably, are fine with it. You're not being used so much as wasting your own life on this man.

 

Tell me more about what you think his wife knows beyond my status as a business colleague? She knows I exist and that I am a member of the travel team.

 

Per your own words, his wife was mentioning your name multiple times while the two of you sat together in a pub (and he repeatedly denied you existed and moved the laptop so she couldn't see, how romantic!). I don't believe in calling anyone a liar, but you are so incredibly selective in your memory and so liberal in your rewriting of your own history that I don't think you're a very reliable narrator. I don't think things are nearly as OK as you seem to think they are, and I don't think anyone---whether it's your company, your son, or your family---is going to just shrug their shoulders and clap for you when sh-t hits the fan.

[SpiceCat]

Hmmm... I thought I was being quite transparent with my emotional investment. To recap for clarity: I love this guy, I’m in love with this guy, and I was ready to build a life with him when our paths seemed aligned. And yes, were our paths to be aligned again I would still at least strongly consider a serious commitment.

 

I believe that you really really want to be nonchalant..but I think you're actually dying inside.

 

Google emotional affair and you'll see why the sex part doesn't matter nearly as much as you think.

 

I asked before and I'll ask again..why do you think so little of yourself that you're willing to accept such behavior from a man who clearly does not love you?

[pepperbird]

op,

when it comes right down to it, it may well be that you ave to accept that if you want to be in a relationship with mm, it will be part time.

 

There will be no real commitments, no real plans, it will be basically take things as they come. If that's what you are looking for-and maybe it is- then this affair may well be enough for you.

 

If it's not, then how long are you willing to wait for him to decide? Why are you even putting the ball in his court anyway? This is YOUR life, not his.

[S2B]

To answer your question - yes, he’s still using you if there is no sex.

 

You are providing him a closeness and intimacy that he could be sharing with his wife.

 

You sacrifice a full and healthy relationship while he gets two relationships. One that looks good to his family/peers and one that’s hidden and exciting.

 

How could you not be thinking he’s using you?

[Zona]

An affair partner is a totally awesome thing to have in your life if you don't care about the damage you do to other people involved.

 

Well, in this case, OP was willing to end her marriage to become his (part-time) mistress. That is one of the biggest ego-kibbles a guy can get, and all it cost was some sugary words and simple romantic gestures.

 

I'm not saying the guy is "evil". It's not an either or that he is either evil or a good guy. He is probably someone with a narcissistic personality that is very charming when he wants to be. Keeping communication to a minimum when he is with his wife is likely to help him compartmentalize and keep separate his family life, and his relationship with OP.

[S2B]

Although I think it’s progress for you if you’re thinking he’s using you while you’re still having sex...

 

Try to think beyond that. It serves a HUGE purpose for him to keep in touch with you...he benefits a lot! And you sacrifice a LOT to continue doing it.

 

 

Don’t ya wonder if he thinks about how one sided this favors him and short changes you?

[darkbloom]

I may actually see him today in a semi-work setting (coffee shop meeting with another colleague). We may have a few minutes to talk. I think I will get a sense of the state of things regardless. I’m assuming you are saying the alternative to me waiting to see what happens is that I end it. I’m not ready to do that so if you have other alternatives at this point please share.

 

I understand this more than you know. Your absolute reluctance to end things concerns me, it’s like you have no self preservation. Even if you talk to him today, you’ve still set your internal clock for 9 days from now and will be counting it down-putting everything in your life on hold for this one thing.

 

I am you. I’ve been you. There is no happily ever after at the end of these 9 days. You’ll spend your weekend of bliss with him and then once he leaves you will reset your clock and count down the days until he comes back around.

 

My heart is breaking for you and all the pain that lies ahead.

[Abetterme]

I understand this more than you know. Your absolute reluctance to end things concerns me, it’s like you have no self preservation. Even if you talk to him today, you’ve still set your internal clock for 9 days from now and will be counting it down-putting everything in your life on hold for this one thing.

 

I am you. I’ve been you. There is no happily ever after at the end of these 9 days. You’ll spend your weekend of bliss with him and then once he leaves you will reset your clock and count down the days until he comes back around.

 

My heart is breaking for you and all the pain that lies ahead.

 

Darkblooms post breaks my heart. She so perfectly describes what you can’t see. You don’t have pain ahead....you are in it. Does it feel good to wait on this guy to decide when he picks you back up? I am with many of the other posters in that I don’t doubt he cares for you in his way, that he is conflicted. So many of his actions followed that of my xMM. The difference between you and I is that I never wanted him. I knew better. It was a facade. I just wanted out, and I hope you get to that place too.

 

I encourage you to take a step back and really look at this situation. Would you want your son being treated like this by a MOW? Or what would you say to a friend going through the same thing? I hope it wouldn’t be continue waiting and wasting their life for someone else’s pleasure. I wish you all the best.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Women can be pretty good at the "he likes me, he smiles a lot at me, he says nice things about me, he thinks i am amazing, he wants to have sex with me, therefore he loves me".

Sadly, not always true and especially not true when he is a married man with a child who when given a stark choice, chose his wife and child.

I am sure he loves the travelling, the holiday aspect of your time together, he will love the extra sex, he will love the companionship, but as for making this a permanent and monogamous relationship, i guess no chance.....

 

^^^^100% truth...every word!

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

op,

when it comes right down to it, it may well be that you ave to accept that if you want to be in a relationship with mm, it will be part time.

 

There will be no real commitments, no real plans, it will be basically take things as they come. If that's what you are looking for-and maybe it is- then this affair may well be enough for you.

 

If it's not, then how long are you willing to wait for him to decide? Why are you even putting the ball in his court anyway? This is YOUR life, not his.

 

Yes - taking things day by day is what I am doing now. Sometimes the pain is still crushing, but mostly I live life as full as I can and take any relationship stuff as a bonus. I’m really quite low maintenance- a kind word or a compliment can keep me going almost all day. So maybe it is enough right now - I’m not sure... of course I’d rather have it be legit- that is never in question but in the meantime I have about 18 months to get the next phase of my life together.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Although I think it’s progress for you if you’re thinking he’s using you while you’re still having sex...

 

Nah, he doesn't wonder...too busy preening his feathers.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

....It serves a HUGE purpose for him to keep in touch with you...he benefits a lot! And you sacrifice a LOT to continue doing it.

 

What purpose is that? Especially when it is not about sex?

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

What purpose is that? Especially when it is not about sex?

 

I'm going to try to help on this...

 

My xMM and I were months on and months off over 3.5 years (with my interest in romance with him tapering more each time we were off).

 

We had some physical stuff, but the majority of it was emotional...never intercourse although we were as close as any two people could come to that on a couple of occasions. Why do you suppose my xMM carried on for all those years without sex? I will tell you my thoughts but I would like to hear yours first, please.

[finna]

I don’t know- at a general level it sounds like you provided something that was missing for him that outweighed the risks...

[darkbloom]

Being an OW is like being a doll in a box that only gets to come out for special occasions. When MM is done with you, he puts you back in your box on your shelf until he’s ready to play again. His wife doesn’t have a box or a shelf. Your time is spent thinking and obsessing when you’re going to get to come out of your box again.

 

 

 

Here’s my post on another OW’s post from 2017. Your posts bring me back to when I was in the thick of my fog and so stuck on what my MM was going to do. I would obsess and sit in my box. It was ugly.

 

I know you aren’t ready to end it but my advice to you is to spend all of your energy on something else. Literally anything. And don’t make yourself available when he comes calling. Show him you have a life outside of waiting for him to take you off your shelf. You will feel a million times better about yourself and the control you are starting to take back.

[Amethyst68]

Ever heard the phrase ego kibbles? It's why internet and emotional affairs can last for years.

 

Yes, they are real and can do as much damage to a relationship as a PA. In fact in your case I'd say you were in at least a one sided EA (on your side) long before you finally had sex with MM.

 

You say you've got 18 months to to lay the foundations of a new life. If that's true you have to stop seeing MM, the reason? You're too emotionally involved, in another year and a half you'll be so invested I predict you won't be able to pull back. In your mind at least your lives will be intertwined by that point. Plus you'll be living with the threat (or hope) of a DDay constantly over your head.

[S2B]

Well sure... you fill in lots of gaps and feed the big ego he has.

 

And as long as you stay quiet and pose no risk to his marriage he has no reason to stop the ego strokes.

 

His home life is happier too - his meetings with you make home life more manageable - he’s got something to look forward to while he’s away working.

 

Kind of like the way most folks think of a vacation.

 

 

I can guarantee if you posed a risk to his marriage he wouldn’t see you again.

 

Stay quiet and be invisible. That feeling would really suck... know that’s my requirement would make me physically ill.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I don’t know- at a general level it sounds like you provided something that was missing for him that outweighed the risks...

 

I think that's in the correct vein, except that I think it was more that he felt he could manage everything on both sides of the fence (with me and his BS) rather than feel like he was risking.

 

Generally, when MM feel like there is risk involved, they pull back from OW until the coast is clear.

 

My xMM specifically said in one of our last conversations that things were good at home because he had his BS "under control." Control is a feature for some MM. He was also very controlling with me regarding frequency of conversations, topics, etc. Almost all enjoy the huge ego boost. My xMM enjoyed our intellectual conversations, the way each of us viewed the world, and I think that he enjoyed that I always challenged him. He also said towards the end of last year that conversing with me (very very little flirting or sexual innuendo by that time) was disrespectful to his wife.

 

What can you see here about the non-sexual benefits my xMM derived?

[GraceAndJoy]

Speaking here from a BS who learned a lot about motivations of my wayward husband because we went through years of trying to save the marriage, and he opened up to me a lot about the affair.

 

My H said, "It wasn't all about the sex, it was about HER WILLINGNESS TO GIVE ME SEX." He said that her DEVOTION to him was what made him addicted to the affair...that she would do anything for him; wait for him and not date others; arrange her life around him; text him romantic things every day, etc. When I asked if he thought those things were lacking in our marriage, he said, "You are good at all of that, but it doesn't feel the same, because it's a given that you would do those things, as you are my wife. Your love is a safe, sweet kind of love, like the love from my mom. I don't have to EARN it. With her, it's different."

 

So yes, he was addicted to being desired outside of the "safe, sweet" marital desiring/love.

 

I point this out because this motivation is like the ego kibbles mentioned above. The affair partner serves the role of giving excitement, validation, ego strokes. But my H did not want to give up his marital relationship either because that was his safe/secure/sweet love. He wanted us both because we both fed him differently.

 

After multiple D-days and no hope in sight, I finally filed for divorce. After the divorce he tried to date AP but their relationship fell apart. He told me one reason was that both of them had a lot of resentment toward one another (she resented that he strung her along for years and didn't ever choose her; he resented the cost of losing his family and her selfishness). He is alone now and as far as I know, so is she.

[finna]

Grace- thank you for your perspective- it makes a lot of sense as to why MM still communicates and wants to spend time with me. I often wonder why he does especially as he has said he wants to focus on his family.

 

I also relate to the feeling of resentment of not being chosen; I can see where this would be what finally causes enough distaste to end the relationship.

[Beentheretoooften]

@grace

I’d love to hear more and ask you some questions. I couldnt respond to your thread because it been over 60 days. No access to pm’s

:

[GraceAndJoy]

@Beentheretoooften

I don't have enough posts on here to pm I think. Ask anything you want though--hopefully related to thread/OP!

[Beentheretoooften]

@graceandjoy. Thanks. I wonder if I could just start a new thread in this ow/om place. That way, it doesn’t take away from the OP. I actually am away now, but i want to read more in depth all your posts before I start asking, so not to duplicate anything info you have shared. May I ask you to keep on the lookout for my thread opener? Thanks.