In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[finna]

I do appreciate all the wise words. As much as it hurts, this is one of the reasons I posted here, after reading a lot of other threads. I woke up this morning to no messages or acknowledgement of any kind, which just seems to further confirm the pulling back and withdrawing that he is doing. There will have to be some kind of communication today because we have work to do together tomorrow and logistics have to be discussed.

 

So I guess later today or tomorrow may show where we are at. I need to prepare for how I am going to approach and behave around him. I am trying to find the courage to be strong and firm... we shall see how well I do.

[S2B]

You can have a boundary and stick to it. Only communicate if it’s business. If/when he sends personal messages tell him to stick to business only and that he’s married.

 

Tell him everything is off the table as long as he’s married. That’s the way you take your power back! By making the decision (knowing he’s married) and having actions that follow that clear message - that you aren’t going to be involved with a MM anymore and that you deserve better!

 

And then stay strong! Post here for support if/when needed. You have plenty of people here willing to help you be a strong woman.

 

He’s let you know he’s not available - now it’s time for you to do the follow through and take action to help yourself.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I want to clarify that I don't mean that xMM was the big bad wolf and I was an innocent little girl. Rather what I am aiming at is that affairs are inherently selfish and OW (and OM) all too much indulge that selfishness in WS.

 

I recognize my role in it, and that I invited the pain into my life. Much of that came from my own subconscious patterns of dysfunction that I had to work hard to heal. This has helped me to understand how to better assess all my relationships, old and new.

 

I do believe that OW/OM, and sometimes BS, are enablers of the WS. I believe that even the kindest of WS have moments where they can't believe their "luck" and even start to develop a bit of entitlement after having two doting women for a while. Eventually it brings out the ugly in the WS.

 

In my case, xMM told stories of manipulating clients, his wife, and family members for his own purposes. On the other hand, there were moments he was a true friend to me and I enjoyed his conversations/company...and a couple times he said he was disrespecting his BS by carrying on conversations with me. Yet in another "come to Jesus" conversation we had after a couple years and a couple breaks, he told me he seriously considered leaving his marriage during the first months of our meeting and he was very sorry and guilty for all the pain he caused me...years later he said this. Yet he ghosted me when we were finally (what I considered) normal friends.

 

On the balance of it, the power dynamic in affairs does lend itself to OW/OM being pretzels bending to the will of WS, and being overly accommodating. Just because not every WS is pathological does not mean we should water down the cautionary message though.

[finna]

Boundaries are easier when we are not together. The real test will be when we are in a foreign city together for a week or two and the loneliness and longing really set in. It’s hard to not want to cuddle up. I’m sure I’ll be looking for lots of support during those nights.

 

You can have a boundary and stick to it. Only communicate if it’s business. If/when he sends personal messages tell him to stick to business only and that he’s married.

Edited June 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I do appreciate all the wise words. As much as it hurts, this is one of the reasons I posted here, after reading a lot of other threads. I woke up this morning to no messages or acknowledgement of any kind, which just seems to further confirm the pulling back and withdrawing that he is doing. There will have to be some kind of communication today because we have work to do together tomorrow and logistics have to be discussed.

 

So I guess later today or tomorrow may show where we are at. I need to prepare for how I am going to approach and behave around him. I am trying to find the courage to be strong and firm... we shall see how well I do.

 

Hang in there. You are a good-hearted, strong lady...I can tell! Be strong and focus on what is best for YOU!

 

I have posted so much on your thread I'm starting to think I should have opened my own thread. Sorry if I overwhelmed. I'm working through some anger and disappointment these days. There are some good people here who have rallied to support you. I, for one, care that you will make your way to a better place! One step at a time, and one day at a time, you will get there!

[finna]

Being told “I’m sorry” is one of the things I am tired of hearing... my thought is if he was really sorry about some things his actions would be different... or maybe that’s just me being cynical. I believe he really is a good guy, trying to do the right thing... I just hate all the pain that I have to work through to continue on my journey. This may sounds like self-pity, but I feel like I am generally a happy person and don’t demand a great deal from anyone because I take care of myself- which makes me feel worse about having such a wonderful taste of joy and happiness that ended up being so fleeting.

 

 

In my case, xMM told stories of manipulating clients, his wife, and family members for his own purposes. On the other hand, there were moments he was a true friend to me and I enjoyed his conversations/company...and a couple times he said he was disrespecting his BS by carrying on conversations with me. Yet in another "come to Jesus" conversation we had after a couple years and a couple breaks, he told me he seriously considered leaving his marriage during the first months of our meeting and he was very sorry and guilty for all the pain he caused me...years later he said this. Yet he ghosted me when we were finally (what I considered) normal friends.

 

On the balance of it, the power dynamic in affairs does lend itself to OW/OM being pretzels bending to the will of WS, and being overly accommodating. Just because not every WS is pathological does not mean we should water down the cautionary message though.

Edited June 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[finna]

Keep posting - every perspective is helpful. I had to laugh just a bit because even though there had been no messages, as soon as I asked a necessary travel logistics question he responded and was trying to help resolve the issue. He keeps notifications from our messaging app muted, which means he was logging in and checking on messages from me this morning. Makes me happy and sad.

 

Hang in there. You are a good-hearted, strong lady...I can tell! Be strong and focus on what is best for YOU!

 

I have posted so much on your thread I'm starting to think I should have opened my own thread. Sorry if I overwhelmed. I'm working through some anger and disappointment these days. There are some good people here who have rallied to support you. I, for one, care that you will make your way to a better place! One step at a time, and one day at a time, you will get there!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Being told “I’m sorry” is one of the things I am tired of hearing... my thought is if he was really sorry about some things his actions would be different... or maybe that’s just me being cynical. I believe he really is a good guy, trying to do the right thing... I just hate all the pain that I have to work through to continue on my journey. This may sounds like self-pity, but I feel like I am generally a happy person and don’t demand a great deal from anyone because I take care of myself- which makes me feel worse about having such a wonderful taste of joy and happiness that ended up being so fleeting.

 

Definitely agree to pay more attention to actions over words. He is very likely going through his own turmoil now, but he has to take care of that while you take care of you. Don't beat yourself up though. Right now you need to be your own very best friend. If you think of ways to be kind to yourself, you may have an easier time recovering. Try to focus on what you can do for yourself to make yourself feel better, indulge yourself a bit, and take the focus off of him as much as you are able. It is ok to feel a little self-pity as long as you don't get stuck there. The key is to move away from feeling powerless towards self-empowered; from out-of-control to controlling what you can. You are clearly a competent person who just fell for the wrong person. Everybody has stuff to work through; it does not make anyone less than. This is yours stuff, and you have the power to engage it and heal it. If you can start putting your focus on this, you may feel better sooner.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Keep posting - every perspective is helpful. I had to laugh just a bit because even though there had been no messages, as soon as I asked a necessary travel logistics question he responded and was trying to help resolve the issue. He keeps notifications from our messaging app muted, which means he was logging in and checking on messages from me this morning. Makes me happy and sad.

 

Mmmm, hugs to you!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Also, I'm going out on a limb here to suggest that perhaps there was an authority figure in your youth who repeatedly diminished your voice/needs. It could have been in the form of habitually putting their (or another family member's) needs ahead of yours. It could have been the 'children are meant to be seen, not heard' thing. Maybe your feelings were invalidated regularly. Maybe you were meant to feel less than in some way. No need to respond to this but something to think about. If you can touch on this, you will quickly gain perspective on what attracted you to MM, and why he feels so 'familiar.'

 

In my case, xMM mirrored my narcissistic mother. We subconsciously replay patterns from our youth in our adult relationships in an attempt to heal them. Our most significant relationships unearth our most significant issues.

[finna]

It’s worth thinking about... so far nothing really comes to mind as I had a good family experience with lots of opportunities for activities and such as a kid- my parents were always very involved and supportive. Not that everything was perfect but no real issues or complaints. I think my attraction to my MM has more to do with what was missing in my marriage. My ex didn’t like to travel and was incapable or unwilling of planning anything for us - he was/is a good guy and a great dad but I just didn’t feel taken care of.

 

In contrast MM loves to travel and adventure, and even when we were “just friends” he would ask me what I would like to do on a weekend during a business trip. I would say something like “go to the beach” and he would do the research and arrange the logistics to make it happen. He makes me feel so taken care of in ways that are important to me. I was used to having to do all of that kind of planning for years and it has been so nice to enjoy that care.

 

 

Also, I'm going out on a limb here to suggest that perhaps there was an authority figure in your youth who repeatedly diminished your voice/needs. It could have been in the form of habitually putting their (or another family member's) needs ahead of yours. It could have been the 'children are meant to be seen, not heard' thing. Maybe your feelings were invalidated regularly. Maybe you were meant to feel less than in some way. No need to respond to this but something to think about. If you can touch on this, you will quickly gain perspective on what attracted you to MM, and why he feels so 'familiar.'

 

In my case, xMM mirrored my narcissistic mother. We subconsciously replay patterns from our youth in our adult relationships in an attempt to heal them. Our most significant relationships unearth our most significant issues.

[Amethyst68]

Such a great man doing all this for you, if he had all this free time at weekends he should have been returning home to make memories with his son! If he already works 16 hr days and then goes on all these business trips with extra days added for more sex with you, he sounds like the worst kind of husband and father there is....

[finna]

Many times our trips take us halfway around the globe from home, so logistically it is not feasible to go home on a weekend... and as I said- much of this care was happening long before we ever “hooked up”. He is a kind and generous person by nature. When he is home he dedicates his weekends to time with his son, which I have always encouraged him to do. Despite his long days he also cooks, cleans, takes his son to school, eats dinner with him, and is there for stories / bedtime routine. It’s one of the things that I love about him - that he is a great dad.

 

Such a great man doing all this for you, if he had all this free time at weekends he should have been returning home to make memories with his son! If he already works 16 hr days and then goes on all these business trips with extra days added for more sex with you, he sounds like the worst kind of husband and father there is....

[Amethyst68]

Your stories don't add up, he either works 16 hr days to avoid his wife or he's father of the year, he can't do both! It's not logistically possible unless his son eats dinner at midnight and goes to bed even later! I expect his wife has been acting as a single parent for years. I would be angry too if my OH was never at home.

 

Listen any man who cheats is not a great father just like any woman who cheats is not a great mother. While he's texting with you it's taking time away from his family.

 

BTW if you're going to be able to afford to operate a 2 household family 5000 miles apart with trips enough so that each child can see their parent, not to mention his wife can and has visited the past then this man can either hop on a plane or bring family out. The fact is he's enjoying playing the single life too much!

[finna]

He works from home when he is not traveling so is able to structure his day to make time for his son. The second half of his workday often starts once his kiddo is in bed. He brings his family with him when he can - it is not always logistically feasible due to her school and other commitments.

 

And yes- some of the work and travel he does is an escape or avoidance mechanism, plus he really loves his job and loves to travel. He is always fighting the balance and overcompensates when he is home. His wife doesn’t love the situation and gives him hell about it often, so then he feels guilty and overcompensates more, then feels miserable and wants to avoid... it is part of their codependent relationship.

 

I’m not defending his choices and actions but I will stand up for the love and care he gives to his son. I don’t think he sees that two unhappy parents do not make for a happy kid but part of his guilt and reason for staying is because his son likes it when he gets to spend time with mom and dad together - as most kids do - and he wants to make his son happy.

 

Your stories don't add up, he either works 16 hr days to avoid his wife or he's father of the year, he can't do both! It's not logistically possible unless his son eats dinner at midnight and goes to bed even later! I expect his wife has been acting as a single parent for years. I would be angry too if my OH was never at home.

 

Listen any man who cheats is not a great father just like any woman who cheats is not a great mother. While he's texting with you it's taking time away from his family.

 

BTW if you're going to be able to afford to operate a 2 household family 5000 miles apart with trips enough so that each child can see their parent, not to mention his wife can and has visited the past then this man can either hop on a plane or bring family out. The fact is he's enjoying playing the single life too much!

[DKT3]

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I dont think any of us here can help. And yes, you are defending his actions, you are also ignoring the red flags. Its oh so very clear to everyone who has responded to this thread that you are in a no win situation and willing to accept any crumbs he gives you. So why complain? What's the confusion? No he will not leave his wife, doesn't matter if its because of his son (doubtful) or because he still wants to be married to his wife (more likely) so by default you are a hookup. You're clearly ok with that so what's the point of this thread?

[pepperbird]

When ever I read an ow's words about how the man's wife is "unstable", it always makes me wonder how she got that way. Is it internal or due to the weight of her husband; behvaior.

 

 

It also makes me laugh to myself because the concept, quite frankly, make no sense. A guy has an unstable wife, yet he will go and act in a way that could cause even most level headed women to break down.

 

 

But of course to some, it will always be the wife's fault when her husband cheats.

[pepperbird]

I

This is the first time that either of us have engaged in an affair- and I can say this with confidence because I have several friends that have known him longer than he has been married, have traveled and spent considerable time with him, etc, and according to everyone until me he has been married to his job more than anything; working 16+ hour days to escape everything else going on.

 

.

 

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yeah right.

 

My brother is like him. Works 16 hour days and if you asked his friends, they would tell you he was faithful to his wife. The truth? He was sleeping around.

[elaine567]

...part of his guilt and reason for staying is because

his son likes it when he gets to spend time with mom and dad together - as most kids do

- and he wants to make his son happy.

 

...and where exactly do you fit in here?

[finna]

I am trying to process and work through my situation.

Hearing feedback and perspectives from people who are familiar with these type of challenges is a part of my support system that I am trying to establish.

 

You are correct - he is not going to leave “for me” and I wouldn’t want him to and have told him so from the beginning. If it is for his own happiness that’s a different story. As of three weeks ago he was going down that path and has now changed direction. For better or worse, he and I had made many future plans that now have to be dealt with or unraveled- I am doing my best to work through the logistics and emotions and hearing from others is helpful.

 

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I dont think any of us here can help. And yes, you are defending his actions, you are also ignoring the red flags. Its oh so very clear to everyone who has responded to this thread that you are in a no win situation and willing to accept any crumbs he gives you. So why complain? What's the confusion? No he will not leave his wife, doesn't matter if its because of his son (doubtful) or because he still wants to be married to his wife (more likely) so by default you are a hookup. You're clearly ok with that so what's the point of this thread?

[finna]

...and where exactly do you fit in here?

 

Well, up until three weeks ago we had many plans in place for he and I to do activities with our sons together... a whole bucket list of big and small things to do with the kids.

 

My ex and I still do many things with our son as a family unit + my ex and his gf do stuff with her kids / our son together. The plan was that his son would also get specific family time with mom and dad, as well as dedicated time with dad.

[finna]

Neither he nor I disparage his wife and I know that he contributes to the issues - they are toxic towards each other and have been for a very long time and mc and ic has had limited success. It is not my story to tell but suffice to say she has a lifelong history of serious issues that are not her fault but do contribute towards the toxic behavior. I am not excusing any of his behavior either... just framing the situation as sometimes very miserable for both of them.

 

 

 

When ever I read an ow's words about how the man's wife is "unstable", it always makes me wonder how she got that way. Is it internal or due to the weight of her husband; behvaior.

 

 

It also makes me laugh to myself because the concept, quite frankly, make no sense. A guy has an unstable wife, yet he will go and act in a way that could cause even most level headed women to break down.

 

 

But of course to some, it will always be the wife's fault when her husband cheats.

[pepperbird]

Many times our trips take us halfway around the globe from home, so logistically it is not feasible to go home on a weekend... and as I said- much of this care was happening long before we ever “hooked up”. He is a kind and generous person by nature. When he is home he dedicates his weekends to time with his son, which I have always encouraged him to do. Despite his long days he also cooks, cleans, takes his son to school, eats dinner with him, and is there for stories / bedtime routine. It’s one of the things that I love about him - that he is a great dad.

 

 

 

 

Like I said before, he sounds just like my brother.

 

 

He travels the world for work and is currently pulling in a seven figure salary plus he owns a consulting company and several other businesses.

 

He is also living with a lot of regret. Like your mm, he really believed that if he just stuffed his time with his kids with lots of "parenting", all would be good.

 

It wasn't, and he's seeing that now. His kids are adults and are not close with their dad at all, because he wasn't there for them. They see it as a situation where his needs were always put first, and you know what?

 

They're right. From what you say, this man is away from home far more than he's at home, and this is by his choice. His desire to travel and have his freedom trump his son, and I'm sorry, but a a few days of "parenting" don;t make up for the longs stretches when he's away.

 

I've also been the person at home while her spouse was away for months or even whole years at a time. Even though it as part of his job, our kids missed out on so much. So did he. He's regretting that now.

 

Btw, if his wife is as unstable and manipulative as you would like us ( and yourself too) to believe, then why, why, WHY is he away from home so much? Seems to me that something stinks about this situation and you are either seeing what you want to see or he's lying to you.

 

I also see a woman who is putting up with some pretty shabby treatment, (you) and I have to wonder if she would ever put up with this sort of nonsense if the guy was single. His being married is no excuse for treating you with disrespect, and it's no excise for you putting up with it.

[Amethyst68]

"He brings his family with him when he can". Really? So how many times has he done this since your affair began? Without his wife 'forcing' him to?

 

No matter how you try to work any mental gymnastics, 16hr work days do not allow for quality involvement in family life. I have every respect for people who work those hours to ensure their family's survival and none for those who do it to avoid their family and their problems.

 

You have no idea of what goes on within his family and home, only what he has told you to support your ongoing affair. I don't know what you want to hear, I think your happy to stay the OW. You obviously don't care about breaking up a family, don't seem to have any guilt or feel the slightest bit anxious about seeing your AP's wife and son, maybe even socialising with them.

[finna]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yeah right.

 

My brother is like him. Works 16 hour days and if you asked his friends, they would tell you he was faithful to his wife. The truth? He was sleeping around.

 

You can project your knowledge of other people’s behavior on this situation as much as you like; however, a few facts. Most of MM’s very long days happen while working from home- so while that makes him a workaholic or possibly married to his job, it does not make him a serial cheater. Also on the many trips I took with him before we got involved I witnessed the same sort of thing - work all day onsite and come back to the hotel and work another six hours in the business lounge. Healthy behavior? Absolutely not, but not cheating either. The other fun fact? We work in a very male-dominated industry, so before me he was never traveling with any women. Yes I understand there is still the potential for ONS, but given MM’s habits it’s rather unlikely.