I caught my employee looking for another job

[Mx12345]

 

Seriously, I’m curious to know why the OP called the newly hired person her employee, considering she’s not the biz owner herself.

 

You are correct, I was inaccurate and calling her my employee. The company has been in business for eight years and I have been with the company for seven years. I report directly to the owner of the company and I know if I told him that I caught her looking at other jobs while on the clock he would fire her faster than I would. We are a government contractor, the job requires a clearance, and she is paid very well.

 

I initially started this thread by asking if anyone who had upper management or HR could shed some light on going about this situation, especially since she has only been with us for two weeks. While she has done her few assignments correctly, I hardly know anything about her work ethic or if she’s worth keeping around because it’s only been a short time. If the same thing had happened with the lady she replaced I would have definitely dug deeper with her on the reasons she was looking to leave, because I knew her work ethic and she was a fantastic employee. I learned that in the two years she was with us. This new lady I have no idea.

 

Apparently most people, probably most of who have never managed a company or department, think it’s perfectly okay to be paid to do a job, but instead you browse for other jobs, and that’s morally correct. Even when I worked for other companies as a lowly entry level person, I would never think that was acceptable.

[Els]

 

Apparently most people, probably most of who have never managed a company or department, think it’s perfectly okay to be paid to do a job, but instead you browse for other jobs, and that’s morally correct. Even when I worked for other companies as a lowly entry level person, I would never think that was acceptable.

 

 

Did you actually read any of the responses in which some of us talked about our own experiences with management? Guess not.

 

 

Yes, in the majority of skilled office jobs today, it is generally OK to spend time browsing the internet if you simultaneously complete all of your assigned tasks to a high standard. Some employers in fact encourage it and have entertainment in their staff rooms. Have you been to Google's offices?

 

 

 

But, as I said, do whatever you want obviously. If your director is "worse" than you, then you probably don't have much freedom to stray too far from his management policies anyway. Just don't expect to retain anyone worth retaining. That's all.

[JuneL]

I’m not sure why this government clearance thing is even relevant. One of my friends has been with the federal government for years. He had to undergo high-level clearance and has been at the highest pay grade in their agency’s pay scale for a while. Guess what, he’s multitasking and helping his college kids with their calculus problems while at work.

 

We’re so lucky that the supervisors in Einstein’s patent office at Bern were not nearly as uptight, or else our science and technology would have been 50-100 years backward.

 

As far as I know, you’re getting advice from supervisors and business owners here.

[Mx12345]

Some employers in fact encourage it and have entertainment in their staff rooms. Have you been to Google's offices?

 

.

 

My company isn’t Google, we are a small company of 200 people. We are experiencing growing pains, meaning we are getting bigger and the staff are trying to keep up with the workload. This is why I explained ALL OF THIS. So that posters could somewhat understand why I was debating firing her. Our company doesn’t have time for this. Yes understand that there is a bigger issue with the owner trying to expand departments to keep up with the workload but that’s what growing pains are.

 

You are also the person who said I just threw her into data entry the first day. I didn’t. I posted that she had a day of orentation where she learned company policies, learned the different departments, etc. maybe in larger companies this takes a week. For us, it takes a day. You are picking and choosing which parts of my post you want to read then commenting in generalized terms like “well at Google they do this..” when I mentioned time and again were a small business.

[Mx12345]

I’m not sure why this government clearance thing is even relevant. One of my friends has been with the federal government for years. He had to undergo high-level clearance and has been at the highest pay grade in their agency’s pay scale for a while. Guess what, he’s multitasking and helping his college kids with their calculus problems while at work. .

 

It’s relevant because people keep saying we should hire a temp, and Hire a student. I’m trying to explain that we can’t for that position because it requires a clearance.

[JuneL]

Since you talk directly to the owner, perhaps you should strongly suggest the company to hire aggressively to catch up with the much higher workloads. Otherwise, you might want to look for other opportunities yourself.

[JuneL]

It’s relevant because people keep saying we should hire a temp, and Hire a student. I’m trying to explain that we can’t for that position because it requires a clearance.

 

But the federal government does hire temps and student interns.

[Art_Critic]

Yes, in the majority of skilled office jobs today, it is generally OK to spend time browsing the internet if you simultaneously complete all of your assigned tasks to a high standard. Some employers in fact encourage it and have entertainment in their staff rooms. Have you been to Google's offices?

 

Not in my company, unless the position requires using the internet all activity should be kept to lunch and down time.. but to google or FB while working will get you fired here... in fact I posted upstream that I let someone go that was using youtube too much and wouldn't cut back.

 

Why should an employer take in the ear so they can surf and post on Instagram.. they shouldn't...

[Mx12345]

But the federal government does hire temps and student interns.

 

Not for a position that requires a secret clearance

[Mr. Lucky]

when I mentioned time and again were a small business.

 

Mx12345, a small business is mom and dad with two employees operating a taco shop. While I get you're not Walmart, with 200 "well paid" employees and, I'm assuming, the revenue to support them, you may be a victim of the boundaries of your own thinking.

 

the owner trying to expand departments to keep up with the workload but that’s what growing pains are.

 

Let's see, what does the owner need to expand? It's not a bigger break room, more copy paper or better software - it's people. And how, from the current pool of available candidates, can he attract and retain more and better employees? That's really the question at hand.

 

You may think you're a government contractor when, in reality, like every other company you're actually in the people business...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JuneL]

Not for a position that requires a secret clearance

 

I personally know people who have worked as short-term employees, part-time consultants, college interns for the federal government that required clearance. Anyway, it might be the nature of the particular contracts your company is doing...

[JuneL]

To add, your company may not be Google. But Google was your company’s size at one point, and I don’t believe they developed their culture only after they’re really huge.

 

The owner should hire an outside consultant do help him do the big bang smoothly. Otherwise s/he’s going to lose people, including you, as I can sense resentment from your posts.

[vla1120]

But the federal government does hire temps and student interns.

 

I'll back Mx up on this one. Gaining a security clearance with the federal government takes time and money. They won't usually waste either on bring in a temp or a student for that purpose.

 

I've been managing departments since I was in the U.S. Navy way back in the early 80's. Coming from a military background, you might think I subscribe to the "older" way of thinking, work time is not play time and don't search for jobs on my time. However, after I left the service, I worked for the Naval Facilities Engineering Command - all engineers (talk about serious stuffed shirts .)

 

The best supervisor I've ever had in my 40+ year career worked there. I was 8 months pregnant, had just been relocated to that area from overseas, my husband was assigned to a ship, so I had to set up household on my own, I was brand new on the job. The first day of work (a Monday), I got a call that I needed to pick up my 3-yr-old because there was a case of meningitis at her day care. I had to leave work that day. I spent the next day finding another place for her. The following day, I'm at work and I get a call from my sister-in-law because my MIL just had a heart attack and I needed to drive 400 miles to see her before she succumbed to the heart damage.

 

I was completely spent, had raging hormones, my husband was out to sea and didn't know his mother almost died, I was crying and I went into my boss's office to tell her. I apologized for being an emotional mess, and for having to miss work pretty much the entire first week I was there. I will never forget her words:

 

"Family comes first. Your sanity comes first. If I put my thumb on you, talk down to you, and make you accountable for every minute of every day, is that going to make you want to come to work and be productive for me? Don't worry, if you try to take advantage of me, I'll give you just enough rope to hang yourself."

 

I've carried those words with me and it changed my management style. When you build a good team, you can have a democratic, collaborative, example-setting management style.

 

The facilities manager at my place of work uses an authoritative management style. He talks down to his staff, criticizes them, screams at them, and they all hate him and can usually be found hiding in a facilities closet at any given time. They have no vested interest in making him look good, and why would they? When I hear him talking to his staff, I just want to punch his lights out.

Edited June 5, 2019 by vla1120

[Els]

Not in my company, unless the position requires using the internet all activity should be kept to lunch and down time.. but to google or FB while working will get you fired here... in fact I posted upstream that I let someone go that was using youtube too much and wouldn't cut back.

 

Why should an employer take in the ear so they can surf and post on Instagram.. they shouldn't...

 

 

What is the actual, tangible difference between employee A and employee B, if they both complete the exact same work with the exact same standard, except employee A spends their downtime staring blankly at the wall while employee B takes a short break on the internet?

 

 

The only difference is that employee B is happier and more likely to stay on the job.

 

 

Now take employee C. Employee C is slow and doesn't finish their work on time. Given that they are so slow, of course they don't have time to browse the internet. Going by your policy, would employee C be better than employee B?

 

 

My company isn’t Google, we are a small company of 200 people. We are experiencing growing pains, meaning we are getting bigger and the staff are trying to keep up with the workload. This is why I explained ALL OF THIS. So that posters could somewhat understand why I was debating firing her. Our company doesn’t have time for this. Yes understand that there is a bigger issue with the owner trying to expand departments to keep up with the workload but that’s what growing pains are.

 

You are also the person who said I just threw her into data entry the first day. I didn’t. I posted that she had a day of orentation where she learned company policies, learned the different departments, etc. maybe in larger companies this takes a week. For us, it takes a day. You are picking and choosing which parts of my post you want to read then commenting in generalized terms like “well at Google they do this..” when I mentioned time and again were a small business.

 

 

I mentioned Google because it is a success story. I could easily name you other successful companies with a similar culture who have fewer employees than you, but you likely wouldn't have heard of them and therefore your answer would be "So what?"

 

 

I won't mention names, but I'm familiar with a successful company that owns a software product that almost everyone here would have used before. They are smaller than you, and everyone's job hours are FLEXIBLE. Yes, that means that everyone can work at whatever hours they see fit as long as they attend the daily meeting. The results that they produce are stellar by all standards, and especially impressive given their small size.

 

 

 

Now, I wouldn't try to convince you to allow that, but just think about it for a second. What does this say about "on the clock" or "off the clock"? Why does the clock matter so much to you? How does what someone do "on the clock" affect your actual bottom line?

[preraph]

My boss has certain social media sites blocked so no one can at least use the company's PCs to be on them.

[Art_Critic]

IRL, the chances are employee C is slow because they are texting all day and on the internet/FB/Instagram....

 

Google IS an internet company so it is easy to see why those go hand in hand.. but in my company the internet is only needed to move files to customers rather than do the work...

 

Each person in our company has one or 2 computers all on the internet and they are allowed to do whatever they want but if they are doing it instead of doing PAYING/INCOME PRODUCING work then they aren't pulling their own weight.

 

This thread was about looking for another job while at work on work computers, should all companies allow that ? I don't think so..

 

They certainly are allowed to look for other work, and in most cases many people do but not while being paid to do the real job they are being paid to do.

 

It isn't even remotely respectful of your employer and their resources if you are doing that, no different than being on the clock and leaving work to go to the DR... you clock out for that type of stuff...

[JuneL]

IRL, the chances are employee C is slow because they are texting all day and on the internet/FB/Instagram....

 

 

That’s absolutely not true. Years ago, I had two assistants working for me for a project. I asked both to figure out a certain task for the project. I expected it to take an hour. The smart one figured it all out in like 10 mins, whereas the other one spent 5 hours without knowing how to so that exactly. A supervisor with illusion would think this slow assistant was working so hard!

[d0nnivain]

Mx12345

 

It is about trust & corporate culture. You don't trust her & that is a HUGE issue in a gov't contractor position because how did she get the clearance if she is not a truthful reliable trustworthy person? If you can't trust her to job hunt on your time / dime how can she be trusted with the stuff that is actually secret?

 

I do think you should kick this dilemma upstairs. If she really doesn't like the data entry aspects of her job, boo hoo. They were explained to her & she is free to quit to go work for somebody else doing what she thinks is more interesting. One disgruntled employee can pollute all of the office morale.

[JuneL]

I'll back Mx up on this one. Gaining a security clearance with the federal government takes time and money. They won't usually waste either on bring in a temp or a student for that purpose.

 

 

So it’s about costs as opposed to feasibility? They might actually end up saving more by hiring an intern who is willing to stay 6-12 months, instead of going through a bunch of perms who stay 3 months each.

 

I’m curious to know the reason.

Edited June 6, 2019 by JuneL

[Mx12345]

I personally know people who have worked as short-term employees, part-time consultants, college interns for the federal government that required clearance. Anyway, it might be the nature of the particular contracts your company is doing...

 

That’s fantastic for them, but it can up to six months for someone to obtain a clearance so we don’t even entertain resumes of someone who doesn’t already have one for that position. Then before being hired the clearance has to be verified in JPAS. To have someone in that position without a clearance would make my company out of compliance and could cause our company to lose its top secret status.

 

It’s not that we don’t have interns, we do actually, but not for that position.

[Mx12345]

What is the actual, tangible difference between employee A and employee B, if they both complete the exact same work with the exact same standard, except employee A spends their downtime staring blankly at the wall while employee B takes a short break on the internet

 

We have little to no downtime, that’s why I mentioned working 10-12 hour days. Since im in charge of the department, anything she doesn’t finish I have to do. If she’s spending even 20 min looking at other jobs, thats 20 min (of paid work time!) she could be spending on an assignment. There’s plenty of work to go around.

 

She’s currently slow at turning in assignments. But I am attributing this to her still learning and I have no problem with this. Are the assignments correct? Absolutely. Slow coming in compared to another employee who is more familiar with the task? Yes. But if it turns out they assignments could have come in faster but she was job surfing for 20 min then we have a problem.

 

I can’t gauge this yet though because she’s still new.

 

I am going to speak to her on Friday and try to find out a reason myself first and then decide if I want to take the information to the owner. She doesn’t have to tell me why, but I’d like to have an open dialogue if she would like.

 

I will make it 100% clear though. If she is looking she has to do it off the clock.

[gaius]

I had 5 different managers at my last job in the 3 years I was there. Two of them were great, two were exceptional, and the last was just downright awful.

 

What made the exceptional two exceptional was that they were both good at their jobs and knew how to handle employees. Despite the fact they had to put up with all kinds of nonsense, when I got there they still put an immense amount of time and effort into working with me while I developed my skills and more importantly they had my back. If they ever caught me looking at personal ads they would have given me loving **** for it and told me I couldn't leave. The awful manager would have used that as an excuse to run to his boss and tattle. Which is part of what made him awful.

 

If you have a productivity issue with her because she's looking for jobs then address the productivity issue. But you end up in the exact same position whether you fire her or she leaves for another job, so why waste mental energy on it? Right now you have a seemingly competent employee who's almost done with training that might be able to help you achieve the goals you have. And if you correctly handle her she might end up staying even if she could do better. Like I did at my old job. Helping to keep my team at either #1 in the entire company or at least in the top 3, every single quarter. Until that awful manager showed up. I couldn't leave fast enough.

[gaius]

On a more amusing note, I signed up for a website that specializes in what I do for a living now and has job listings, but I didn't know when I signed up they were going to send my info in to a bunch of different companies, so now I've got the HR department of my current company calling my phone to offer me a job. I guess my phone number didn't pop up in their system.

 

I'm not worried about it. As long as I keep doing my job they couldn't care less I'm looking around.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I have always managed to end up coming to work at close to noon. After the initial period of 6 months or so of proving myself, I could do what I wanted. As long as I keep the productivity up. I also never had on/off the clock time. I answer emails and finish work in the evenings or on weekends. I do a much better job if I work when I feel rested. Now, an employer could force me to come in at 9am and stare at the screen for the first 2 hours being half brain-dead and doing nothing. They could block social media and phone access. I would be miserable and would probably be 5 times less productive and leave at the first opportunity.

 

 

The only metric should be delivering high quality work on time. Smart employers know this.

[JuneL]

That’s fantastic for them, but it can up to six months for someone to obtain a clearance so we don’t even entertain resumes of someone who doesn’t already have one for that position. Then before being hired the clearance has to be verified in JPAS. To have someone in that position without a clearance would make my company out of compliance and could cause our company to lose its top secret status.

 

It’s not that we don’t have interns, we do actually, but not for that position.

 

Nobody is telling you to have someone without clearance do her job.

 

If I were in your position, I would have tried to convince the owner to hire a perm and a part-time intern concurrently. True, it might take up to a few months to get clearance, but the part-time intern will become very handy once she starts working for you. From what you wrote, your team is understaffed, so it’s not unreasonable to make the case to your boss. Plus what happens if someone else leaves? If your boss rejects your suggestion, then you might want to look for opportunities yourself. I think your resentment should be directed to the boss instead of the new team member.