His lowest priority

[rainbowsandkittens]

But if he's still the self-absorbed, immature guy who thought an affair was a good idea, then his life can never be great. It can look good on paper but it can't give him fulfillment and joy.

 

And if he's truly reconciled with his wife like my husband has, then he had to do a million times more work on himself and his marriage than he ever put into conducting an affair. He may be enjoying a better life now, but only because he clawed his way out of a giant turd pile of his own making.

 

 

Well isn't he a peach. It must be so nice for nothing to ever be your fault. My wife made me cheat on her! The OW made me have an affair with her!

 

How can a guy who can't take responsibility for himself ever have a great life?

 

I don't know that there was a "reconciliation" with his partner. I don't know that she ever knew about his affairs (though after 4, how could she not?) They still have sex, they have date nights, they go on vacations. I don't think he clawed his way out of anything.

 

I begged him to see a therapist bc I truly think he's damaged (when I asked how he would feel if one of his children was treated or treated someone the way he treated me he said he would understand) but I doubt that happened. He went to one when we first started presumably to talk about his relationship and what he wanted to do but instead he talked about work.

 

I know you're right that their lives only seem good on paper but damn, that paper looks pretty good. Great job, kids who love him and think he hung the moon, long vacations (so jealous of the european system) and fun hobbies that he gets to indulge in. Clearly he feels something is missing or is just a raging narcissist who needs massive amounts of attention (I'm betting on the latter) but I don't think that means they don't have a perfectly fine life day to day.

 

And yes, a real peach! lol. Nothing is ever his fault. But I know for myself he really truly got me to believe that this was all on me. I go over it all the time in my head. I shouldn't have kissed him first, I shouldn't have this or that. It's exhausting.

 

(Sorry for hijacking this thread!!)

[rainbowsandkittens]

 

The "low hanging fruit" analogy makes sense, that if you struggle with self-esteem you interpret the MM's interest in you as flattering, and his wanting to be with you over his wife the ultimate proof of your worthiness. But the fact is, he's having an affair with you because you're up for an affair. There's no way to know if he would choose you for monogamy if he were single. Almost certainly not, since he's not choosing monogamy with the lady he already promised monogamy to. If you think he's a prize, so therefore you're a prize, then you are heavily invested in ignoring any evidence that says he's not a prize. Once you have based your self-worth on your own opinion of yourself, then seeing the MM for who he is really is becomes easier.

 

This is a really great way of breaking it down. I took it in differently when I read it. This makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

 

It was never really about me winning over someone else (or at least not in a conscious way. But maybe I'm fooling myself.) I just liked that he wanted me. Period. He's incredibly handsome, funny, brilliant. He speaks 3 languages fluently (with 2 more passably) and I barely speak English some days. Lol. He is not someone that I would have considered wanting me. I always put him on a pedestal, even now. I need to figure out how to knock him off. That's the thing I struggle with. I know he's a POS and a horrible human. I KNOW IT. But I don't feel it. I feel like he's great and I'm terrible.

[heartwhole2]

How could this guy who's had at least four affairs been great? And he couldn't even be nice about ending it, he had to go for the low blow and make you feel like you somehow forced him to have an affair with you? You are not that powerful.

 

My husband looks really good on paper too (thanks in large part to my support and strategic thinking over the years). But the second I found out he was lying and cheating and gaslighting, my opinion of him tanked. He was no longer deserving of me. All I care about is that the people in my life are good people.

 

Your exMM sounds extremely entitled. Must be nice, huh? You just go through life not giving a damn about anybody else and taking what you want. If that's success, no thank you.

[OWch]

I don't know that there was a "reconciliation" with his partner. I don't know that she ever knew about his affairs (though after 4, how could she not?) They still have sex, they have date nights, they go on vacations. I don't think he clawed his way out of anything......(Sorry for hijacking this thread!!)

Don’t worry about hijacking the thread! I totally get what you are saying. No matter how many times people tell me MM lives aren’t great and they are messed up and aren’t happy etc. I really struggle to believe that it’s worse then an OW’s.

 

I believe a BS has a life that I would not envy, especially if a DD. But a MM, no way. That said, my situation is slightly different I suppose in that my MM left. Oh yes, sorry, I should have told you all that I am one of the happy ever after stories. Only it doesn’t quite work out that way, and there is no happy ever after. SURPRISE! Down the line I eventually just realised I am still in an A, it’s just my MM lives - no not lives, sleeps - sleeps in a different house to his BS.

 

So perhaps his life is not better on paper or in reality right now. But I have no doubt it will be very soon. He will wheedle his way back in somewhere. Get the front door and back door open again - and when he decides I won’t be there he’ll just find another OW’s back door. He’s even sent me a fishing text today - nice of him to drop in. I cut off the bait with one firm reply but it’s taking every ounce of strength to stay on my path today. Is he divorced? No. Is he being honest with his BS? No. So nothing has changed and I stay on my path.

 

We have got to believe that down the line our life WILL be better and we will look at him and truly believe our lives are better on paper and in reality. Or even better, where I hope to end up, is thinking or caring about his life so little that I don’t even stop to look at him and notice.

Edited June 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[rainbowsandkittens]

How could this guy who's had at least four affairs been great? And he couldn't even be nice about ending it, he had to go for the low blow and make you feel like you somehow forced him to have an affair with you? You are not that powerful.....

 

Hey, maybe I am that powerful! That's not even the entirety of how not nice he was when ending it.

 

Well, he's certainly charming- he managed to seduce 4 women besides his partner. I'm sure he knows how to find women who are easy targets but it also says something about how seductive he is.

 

I've always been impressed with your self esteem and the way you handled everything (I remember you from when I was here before). You're incredibly strong and confident. I wish I was more like you.

Edited June 10, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Aloha123]

 

\But that’s also why I say this site is a double edge sword. Because I think it also feeds my self-bashing, my feelings of being an absolute fool, my regret... and it keeps me thinking about us and him

 

I often feel this way myself. Like, all of the wheel spinning keeping me stuck too. But, I have come SO far in the one year (yikes!) since i discovered this forum, i still think it's worth the trade off.

[Aloha123]

 

I know you're right that their lives only seem good on paper but damn, that paper looks pretty good. Great job, kids who love him and think he hung the moon, long vacations (so jealous of the european system) and fun hobbies that he gets to indulge in. Clearly he feels something is missing or is just a raging narcissist who needs massive amounts of attention (I'm betting on the latter) but I don't think that means they don't have a perfectly fine life day to day.

 

 

OMG this is my x-mm exactly. People always ask me on this forum how I can be so jealous of him and his wife and their marriage, considering the circumstances, but it is precisely because they have a perfectly fine day to day existence, she is none the wiser for it, and probably never will be.

[heartwhole2]

OMG this is my x-mm exactly. People always ask me on this forum how I can be so jealous of him and his wife and their marriage, considering the circumstances, but it is precisely because they have a perfectly fine day to day existence, she is none the wiser for it, and probably never will be.

 

Everyone repeat after me:

 

We want more from life than the trappings of success.

We want authentic and transformational relationships.

We want our lives to be blessings to others.

We want to know and be known by people who share all of who they are with us.

 

 

My life during my husband's affair was this confusing, strained thing because he was hiding part of himself and engaging in all sorts of cruelty and rationalization. Who cares that we went on a vacation? Who cares that he got me nice presents? I could find any old schlub to do that. I'd take a modest life with a good man who knows what real love and real success are any day. That's truly being rich.

 

Set your sights higher ladies!

[Aloha123]

Everyone repeat after me:

 

We want more from life than the trappings of success.

We want authentic and transformational relationships.

We want our lives to be blessings to others.

We want to know and be known by people who share all of who they are with us.

 

 

My life during my husband's affair was this confusing, strained thing because he was hiding part of himself and engaging in all sorts of cruelty and rationalization. Who cares that we went on a vacation? Who cares that he got me nice presents? I could find any old schlub to do that. I'd take a modest life with a good man who knows what real love and real success are any day. That's truly being rich.

 

Set your sights higher ladies!

 

I get your point but I wasn't talking about material things at all. My husband and I are much better off financially than my x-mm and his wife will ever be, we have stayed in literally the most expensive hotels in the world, etc. That has nothing to do with anything. My x-mm and his wife just seem to enjoy each other's company much more than my husband and I ever did, and with significantly fewer financial resources. So I agree with you 100% that money can't buy happiness. I'm living proof of that (and no I did not marry my husband for his money -- we were both poor when we met in our 20s).

[Naivewomen]

Aloha, I know exactly what you mean. You feel like they have a better connection. Then why did he cheat?? What were some of his justifications?? Why does he still reach out?? Something is missing within himself. It may very well have nothing to do with his relationship with his wife. However, with something missing internally for him then he is not living an authentic happy life like you think.

[Starswillshine]

Seems MM always get the better end. I'm the former BS. I divorced my WH after multiple DDays. I knew there was no way I could ever trust him again. The way he lies, how convincing he was. The things he said and did to get me to believe he was a different person, there was no way I could ever feel he was genuine. So I divorced him.

 

So now, I'm a single mom to 4 kids. We live off of less than 25% of his income. I have no family here. No help. He moved an hour away. He sees his children every other weekend. Provides no help otherwise. Travels all over. Vacations galore. Has a new girlfriend (who is recently divorced because her husband left her for someone else... hard to understand why she would get involved with him but I guess if he fooled me, he can fool someone who doesnt know him as well). No doubt still finds girls on the road to occupy his time. It all sounds glorious on paper.

 

But he's a drunk, that even though he makes a lot of money is putting himself into debt. He is in his 40s but acting like he is in his 20s with no responsibilities. He has lost the respect of his kids. And he doesnt have me. And I'm pretty darn awesome.

 

So while it is easy to sit back and think about how he is winning and enjoying life to the fullest. It is a very surface happy. He has nothing deep and meaningful. And I am unsure if he is capable of it. While I wish I could have all the nice vacations back, I do not wish to have that sort of love any longer. When I find myself in that jealous position, I remind myself what it comes with.

[heartwhole2]

I truly don't understand how you could be envious of the connection two people have when one of them is cheating on the other. I don't think ignorance is bliss. Like we envy a woman's seemingly good marriage when she doesn't know her husband is molesting his step-daughter because as far as she knows things are great?

 

If he's really good at compartmentalizing and not feeling guilt, then he's a person lacking in conscience and empathy. Who wants that? And if he's not good at compartmentalizing and not feeling guilt, then he's being cruel and gaslighting his partner to make himself feel better. Who wants that? So either the BW is married to someone with psychopathic tendencies who can't connect with her on any real level, or she's being gaslit and vilified so he can do something he knows is wrong. Either way her autonomy has been taken from her because her partner is deceiving her and she can't have true intimacy with him because a large chunk of his true self is hiding in the dark.

 

My hope for all humans is that they can learn to love themselves and others, and that if they are causing harm to others, they work hard to change. There's enough happiness to go around, and someone else's happiness (TRUE happiness) is something to celebrate, not envy. We have to remember that the basis of our own happiness lies in our perspective and our gratitude, not our relationship status or professional success. Someone who is unknowingly in a marriage with a cheater deserves your pity and concern, not your envy or enmity.

 

These feelings seem to be coming from WW and not single OW, am I correct? Why would that be?

[Aloha123]

My hope for all humans is that they can learn to love themselves and others, and that if they are causing harm to others, they work hard to change. There's enough happiness to go around, and someone else's happiness (TRUE happiness) is something to celebrate, not envy. We have to remember that the basis of our own happiness lies in our perspective and our gratitude, not our relationship status or professional success. Someone who is unknowingly in a marriage with a cheater deserves your pity and concern, not your envy or enmity.

 

These feelings seem to be coming from WW and not single OW, am I correct? Why would that be?

 

First, I have to tell you I have the deepest respect for your ability to empathize with OW and to take the high ground. I absolutely agree that my envy of my x-mm and his wife's marriage makes no sense whatsoever and is likely not grounded in reality, at all. I say that over and over again on these forums.

 

I think WW like myself feel like this because they are usually coming from such unsatisfying marriages to begin with, that almost anything seems like an improvement. Like, as f-ed up as I know my x-mm is, the fact that two people could have been married for 30 years and still be attracted to each other like him and his wife are, that just FLOORED me. But that is mainly because at the time I stared the affair, my H and I had not had sex together for over 2 years. More than anything though, the MM is am utter illusion, so we just project onto him and his marriage everything we want but don't have. It's ridiculous.

 

The final point is that MW are much more likely to be in an affair with a MM who is very obviously never leaving his wife. Because there is no future faking, the wife is not really seen as somebody who needs to be vilified, and she is not viewed as the "rival". Insted, she's basically the "winner" in the sick dysfunctional mind of the married OW, and that is where the envy comes from.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Aloha123

[heartwhole2]

Very enlightening Aloha, thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

ETA: I just think it's sad these men get to have two women when they deserve zero!

[rainbowsandkittens]

I’m a single OW. It’s lonely. I’m lonely. Really truly lonely. That’s what I see that they have- a family, support, shared history, intimacy, and double income doesn’t hurt. Lol. (It’s expensive being single!) etc etc. I see families on the street and think ‘oh, that’s what they must look like’- happy or sad or stressed or angry or whatever- they have each other for better or worse. For some reason I saw my XMM like my brother and my father- two incredible men who adore(d) their families. They were not cheaters though and never would be. I know that he’s not actually like them. But for some reason he seemed like them to me. Like someone you could count on. Like a good man.

 

Boy, do I know how dumb this sounds.

 

I’m not sure that’s people who’ve been long married understand truly what it’s like on this side- esp for a person who has very rarely been in a relationship. Of course I understand (I try to at least- as I can having never lived it) that it’s not all roses and ponies. And that if you lose it’s devastating. (By it I mean: love, trust, the relationship, all of the above) But at a deep level you have a base of love that I, as a single childless woman, have never had. You have (hopefully) has support and companionship that I have never known.

 

Case in point- I lost my father 3 months ago. I’m broken in a way I have never been broken. And I have no one to talk to about it. I have friends, sure. But at a certain point no one wants to hear it. And no one is there just to see on your face how you’re feeling and try to comfort you. And no one i know knew him in any way where they would understand who he was and what a loss this is. My sister in law does. My brother in law does. Bc they’ve been a part of my family and they live with my siblings and can be there for them and vice Versa. If I meet someone tomorrow (ha) they’ll never have known him. That’s something I really struggle with.

 

I have said many times that part of the reason I stayed in this so long was because even though most of the time was sad and hurt and made me feel awful in 100 different ways and for a 100 different reasons and truly proved that I am a crap person- for a week every two months I got to feel love. I got to have someone with me, who wanted me, who I had fun with and joked and was intimate with (not just about having sex. That really wasn’t a big thing for me though I am very aware that it was the majority of my usefulness to him). I got to be held. I miss holding someone and being held. I know that’s selfish. I know that comes at the expense of other people. You can’t imagine how much shame I feel about that. But it was like a drug. It was such a powerful feeling to have even for that short time. I’m trying to be truthful. And the truth is- I wanted that feeling. Even just for 6 weeks a year. (And the attention over text and phone calls in Btwn is part of it too of course).

 

The irony of this is that I finally told him I loved him and it was the beginning of the end. Which I knew as soon as I said it. When we broke up (or when he began the breakup a month earlier) he told me that he didn’t love me. In no uncertain terms. So congratulations to me- I got what I deserved. And truth be told I’m not sure I did love him or just the idea of him. 99% sure it was the latter.

 

 

The last thing I’ll say is that I’m a comparer. I compare myself to everyone all the time. I guess I always have. Social media is TERRIBLE for me. I think everyone has it better than I do. Even if I know in my brain that that’s not true. It feels true. So this is a big me issue and I’m aware of it. I just haven’t learned how to stop it yet.

 

Wow, this sounds so pathetic. So sorry to have written a book yet again. And all it boils down to is ‘blah blah blah poor me’.

 

Aloha said everything much better and more succinctly.

Edited June 12, 2019 by rainbowsandkittens

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Everyone repeat after me:

 

....

 

Set your sights higher ladies!

 

CUTE! :love:

[Starswillshine]

Rainbowandkittens...

 

Being involved with this man has kept you from finding exactly what you desire and deserve. I know something is better than nothing at times but that something keeps you from everything. I am really sorry MM was such a douchecanoe (not sure if that is allowed here). Head up, chin up, maybe removing him from your life will free you from the negativity he brings into your life to give you light to bring something really positive into your life.

[BaileyB]

Rainbowsandkittens - I just wanted to say, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. I lost my mother, my best friend, and I too went home to an empty apartment. It was my sister in law that called that night to ask if I was doing ok. It’s a sad and lonely place to be. I just wanted to send my love and suppprt.

 

That said, there is love out there for you. I know - because I found it. It is possible but not if you are pining after a married man. Best wishes as you move forward. Don’t lose hope - you just never know what life has planned for you.

[ABernie]

I want to hate him. I want to be angry at him. But really all I hate is myself. I am angry at myself. For not doing something sooner. For wasting years of my life. Years. Angry for not treating myself better. For not caring about myself more. For not choosing better.

 

 

Anger will definitely come as part of the grieving process. But I think it's important to understand that anger is not the opposite of love - apathy is.

 

I keep thinking about my college love and how I never thought I would ever love again. He is now just a place holder in my memory. There is only apathy there for him. While I'm at 80-90% apathy for MM, it increases little by little.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Rainbowandkittens...

 

Being involved with this man has kept you from finding exactly what you desire and deserve. I know something is better than nothing at times but that something keeps you from everything. I am really sorry MM was such a douchecanoe (not sure if that is allowed here). Head up, chin up, maybe removing him from your life will free you from the negativity he brings into your life to give you light to bring something really positive into your life.

 

I say douchecanoe all the time! :love:

 

The highlighted line is something I'm going to repeat to myself. Sometimes the 'better than nothing' keeps you from everything.

 

Thank you. It's been almost a year that he's been gone and I haven't found the light yet. But I do know that there's *possibility* of light now which there isn't with him.

[rainbowsandkittens]

Rainbowsandkittens - I just wanted to say, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. I lost my mother, my best friend, and I too went home to an empty apartment. It was my sister in law that called that night to ask if I was doing ok. It’s a sad and lonely place to be. I just wanted to send my love and suppprt.

 

That said, there is love out there for you. I know - because I found it. It is possible but not if you are pining after a married man. Best wishes as you move forward. Don’t lose hope - you just never know what life has planned for you.

 

Thank you. I'm sorry for your loss as well. My sister in law has been the one to check on me most often and who I text or call when I miss him the most. She has been an incredible comfort to me and my brother. I'm very lucky bc she's been in my life since I was 6 and she was 18. So in a way my dad has always been her dad too.

 

And thank you for the second comment as well. I struggle with hope all the time. I would like to say I have hope but at my age... I just don't think it's going to happen for me. But I will try and keep myself open.

[OWch]

I am finding things really difficult today.

 

It’s starting to sink I that I really am going to have to go the long haul in this.

 

His message this week has just set me back and even though I cut it in its tracks I feel awful and I hate he hasn’t replied.

 

I really want to reach out to him and the only way I can stop myself is constantly reminding myself of how awful the situation was and that’s just making me more and more down and pathetic and useless.

 

I am reading and re-reading threads trying to see the patterns etc for what they are. I am up to date now on Asaysno and in the early pages of Lilkatkat’s. I catch myself thinking my situation was different, but it wasn’t. Not really. It’s all the same rubbish tied up in different wrapping paper.

 

And I am going through these strange waves of being fine and then BAM hurts like hell and then back to fine again and then not and round and round and round...

 

Is there any tip or tricks at all to just distract from contact when there is no distractions to hand?

 

I can’t see any friends this weekend etc. so I am finding myself alone with my thoughts far too much. And I am afraid to polish off a bottle of wine for fear of really setting the texting fingers lose! Ugh. What happened to me. Where have a gone. This is embarrassingly pathetic.

[heartwhole2]

I'm sorry you're having one of "those" days. I really do feel for you.

 

I find that when I need a distraction I need to think of something I am really excited about and throw myself into it. Is there a house project you've been putting off? A new hobby you want to research?

 

If you don't have the energy for that, maybe just pick a show to binge-watch.

 

The only thing that I found really helpful for ruminating was doing the EFT/tapping technique. I didn't get properly trained or anything, I just watched some YouTube videos on it. If there was something I was really grieving or regretting or obsessing over, I would try to peel back the anger and then say what was underneath it. "I'm sad because I thought X. I'm sad because I wanted Y. I'm sad because he did X to me. I'm sad because I lost Y." Saying those words out loud and doing the tapping helped me release feelings that had me stuck in a loop.

 

I would also add some self-love in there. We are all human beings with intrinsic value. That doesn't mean you whitewash what you did and say, no big deal, I'm just human. But it means that you can say, "I made bad choices, but I still deserve love. I made bad choices, but I am working to be a better person. I am sending peace to the people hurt by my actions. I accept the peace that I deserve."

[rainbowsandkittens]

I am finding things really difficult today.

 

It’s starting to sink I that I really am going to have to go the long haul in this.

 

His message this week has just set me back and even though I cut it in its tracks I feel awful and I hate he hasn’t replied.

 

I really want to reach out to him and the only way I can stop myself is constantly reminding myself of how awful the situation was and that’s just making me more and more down and pathetic and useless.

 

I am reading and re-reading threads trying to see the patterns etc for what they are. I am up to date now on Asaysno and in the early pages of Lilkatkat’s. I catch myself thinking my situation was different, but it wasn’t. Not really. It’s all the same rubbish tied up in different wrapping paper.

 

And I am going through these strange waves of being fine and then BAM hurts like hell and then back to fine again and then not and round and round and round...

 

Is there any tip or tricks at all to just distract from contact when there is no distractions to hand?

 

I can’t see any friends this weekend etc. so I am finding myself alone with my thoughts far too much. And I am afraid to polish off a bottle of wine for fear of really setting the texting fingers lose! Ugh. What happened to me. Where have a gone. This is embarrassingly pathetic.

 

Can you erase or block his number so you really won't be tempted to text?

 

I second binge watching. Or just watching a whole lot of comedy specials. Or lots of Real Housewives or Below Deck. Or, better yet, Top Chef! Something mindless but entertaining that will distract you. Listen to music really loud (but only fun upbeat music)! Get your nails done or buy something nice for yourself.

 

Sending you a hug. I know how hard this is. Feel free to pm me over the weekend if you want to.

[OWch]

Thank you both for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

Can you erase or block his number ...

 

Right now I don’t feel like I can. My therapist also didn’t encourage it which I did think was a bit odd.

 

Maybe I should. I probably should.