Redhead14 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I doubt I will hear from him again, he was a beta and won't take charge of the situation. Did I like him? I did, but he's got to take the lead now to make things go anywhere. You are entirely too rigid in your "approach". There isn't anything wrong with sending him a text after (since you did like him you say), to say you'd enjoyed meeting him and would like to hear from him again. Something light. There's nothing wrong with taking the first step. Take the lead on this and then give him the "reigns" again and observe if he reciprocates, etc. It's about balance, not who does what first. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
rightondude Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I like Panera Bread for a quick cobb salad but I'm not sure I could think of a less romantic location if I tried. Even a Mickey D's or Taco Bell would have more ambiance/kitsch factor... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Women are wired to want a man who can lead the action, as it conveys competence. It's a reproductive stable strategy to select for capable, protective men. Even women who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves are wired to want a strong, sharp guy. But many women are faced with a difficult dichotomy: give up on that for a comfortable partnership with a man who's weaker/less competent than you? Personally, I can't do it. I'm not attracted to a man weaker than I, and I can't pretend to be. However, this is just one perspective. Some women find enough benefits in being in the leadership position to settle down with it. I wish them all the best! MO, I just think it's great you're getting out there and meeting people. It's not easy to have the courage and fortitude to do that, but you persist and remain true to yourself, and I admire you for that! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Is this a date or an acting part audition....? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BloodRedRose Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Sorry to say, but I find this very objectifying. Alpha/beta mentality is very toxic to men and it perpetuating this primitive idea as a woman you're only doing a disservice to both yourself and other women. 1. Picking on his hair is kinda shallow... I've seen plenty of men who has greying facial hair and not the hair on their head! In fact, my dad is like that, but he's blonde, so the difference isn't very striking. How would you feel if were judged on such superficial basis? 2. Do you have a job and an income? If so, I think you're able to buy your own coffee, especially on the first date. If he paid for your coffee, he would have wasted some money on a woman who then goes and calls him beta on a forum... People go through many first dates until they find someone they want to date further, it's completely not worth paying for a stranger you might not see again. 3. Why is that bad? Would you prefer someone who doesn't care about where you'd like to sit? 4. Sure, I would probably also be a bit iffy about the second date, I like when the conversation is flowing too. But some people take time to show who they truly are, especially introverted ones. They don't deserved being called a wuss or beta. It's so cruel and unkind. 5. Probably he felt you're not into him. You probably thought that being a bit on a passive side, he will feel desperate to contact you again cause he has no other options... Edited June 8, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I ditto what most of the others here said (too rigid, looking for the negative etc). Have you ever wondered what his list about you might look like? Seriously. Not to put you down but I think you need to go into your dating experiences with more empathy and an open mind FFS. Reality: he might have been lackluster due to not being into you. Idk, the hyper-analyzation isn't your friend. You are not allowing for any leeway or a mini-mistake that is often the way it is on a first date--yes, even with an awesome person that later on you may be totally in love with. The question is would you ALSO hold up under the same scrutiny? I don't think so because of your postings here & just also because almost no one/no one would. BTW, your posts should really be lumped together as a thread so we could see the trajectory of your dating journey. That's the real subject rather than making separate ones about each new guy you go out with. The common theme would emerge MUCH more quickly to all of us posting. But yeah you need to work on opening up & your depression issues. I think you need to take the positives. You are opening up a touch in that you went on a date with a guy. So that's a step in the "more open" direction. He wasn't for you but he wasn't an awful person by any means. If you continue to look for bad, you will find it. If you look for good, you will find it. Which will you choose? Right now you are dangerously close to continuing to do the same thing over and over yet expecting a different result. I think the positive changes are so minute that you have a hard time registering them as worthwhile of more change within you--and revert to your normal strategy of blaming the other person. Listen, at a bare minimum, this guy was interested in YOU. If you want to discount everything else the guy was about & nitpick him to death, what are you bringing to the table? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I like Panera Bread for a quick cobb salad... they also have great soups and mac 'n cheese Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I'm not attracted to a man weaker than I, and I can't pretend to be. I didn't see anything in OP's description of events that means she's "stronger" than him. I need a guy to be strong when it counts, yes, but paying my way when we don't even know each other, telling me where to sit and controlling the conversation doesn't equate to strong to me. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 they also have great soups and mac 'n cheese Lol, well I think on BOTH their parts Panera (no offense to Panera) is not a great place for a first date at all. Similarly to most of OP's dating stories she expects a guy to magically get it right. If this had happened to me, I'd be wondering what it was about me that suggests to a guy that Panera was the right place to take me for a first date?! Well both him and myself. And it's not all for bad reasons, maybe he'd picked up on a down-to-earth quality but hadn't really got the rest right. And about him, it's information--it would certainly telling me about his dating style and to keep expectations low. OP, you should have nudged him to a better decision for both of you. I just don't understand why you are living under the fallacy that women don't do any of the work. Obviously if it's the right guy and things go so well which is a perfect storm, a date ANYWHERE including panera will go well. Often though you need to help it along by making sure you go on dates in places that are more conducive for dating & allowing little moments to happen. Someone should do a scientific study on this but I would imagine a significant percentage of couples end up together for a decent amount of time because the ENVIRONMENT was conducive and helped things along. You don't want to chose an environment that goes against helping it along. And before you blame it on the guy for suggesting Panera (which isn't beta since it is taking the lead), this is where you should have said a little something that re-directs to another type of place. I'd say that people who tend to be rigid, clinic, overanalyzing would tend to choose a place that matches how they approach life and/or go along with it, citing practical reasons. Romance and love is rarely practical--i'd say it's the antithesis of that so it'd probably help to go against your instinct and out of your comfort zone, create some good nervous energy, anticipation--which you wouldn't really get at panera. Someone with a joy for life and meeting people could find that easily at Panera or Starbucks or wherever, they are not practical by nature. Link to post Share on other sites
Foxhall Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 OP, yes just commentating I am fascinated by your thoughts process, personally I would be more on the beta end of the scale than an alpha, yes lots of guys too or shall we say the more inexperienced ones they do not realise how much the woman is naturally analysing or picking up on the body language and so on, all fun and games though, I enjoy it all now really rather than getting too uptight over it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Not an unpopular opinion as far as I am concerned and a very interesting point in the #metoo era where a man has to be very careful in how he refers to a woman yet there is no social faux-pas in “beta-shaming” men I agree with you username1. The term is a horrible, shaming thing. Problem is that it seems to be other men who drive this alpha/beta stuff. Mostly from the dating gurus I suspect. The first port of call is having men stop using the terms and then making it clear that they won't accept the term used by women either. Women did a lot of this with the S word to describe a woman who's had a few sexual partners. First we had to stop calling each other derogatory terms. Then we made it clear that it's not OK for men to say it either. We're not 100% there, but things are a lot better than when I was a girl. It's about leading by example. And making use of the term a dealbreaker. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
newyorker11356 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 most women do Not in my experience. Most have preferred the stubble feel and look. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 LOL I'm good with Panera once in a while. It's kind of like Panera is what I'd like to "experience" at a Starbucks but the Starbucks is usually too small and crowded. Guess that must mean I'm "beta" but hmmm all these women who seem to love flirting with me apparently don't think so. LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I guess I'll admit I'd (theoretically) do a COFFEE date at Panera, but not a DINNER date due to some of the above. So that's true actually. But still, don't think it should disqualify anyone who's otherwise solid... Link to post Share on other sites
Poutrew Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Well, it could have been worse. You could had had a Panera Cinnamon Roll. I find all their pastries dry and over-cooked. If that had happened, and he had taken the lead like you wanted him to and ordered the food, would you also be telling us about his bad taste in food as well? Sometimes a guy just can't come out on top... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Not in my experience. Most have preferred the stubble feel and look. My bits dried up right now just from thinking about stubble. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Not in my experience. Most have preferred the stubble feel and look. Oh goodness, yes! Lol basil. I suppose attraction is in the eye of the beholder. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Well, it could have been worse. You could had had a Panera Cinnamon Roll. I find all their pastries dry and over-cooked. Lol. You guys are cracking me up... As a Canadian who doesn’t have a local Panera bread, I take every opportunity to go when I visit the US. I would be thrilled to meet for coffee and a soup/sandwich as a first date. Link to post Share on other sites
Gretchen12 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I went into the dining area and he didn't say "Let's sit here", I kind of took the lead and went to the first seat that was free. He followed. Tells me he's passive. This is how it should be with a gentleman, especially if he is manly. The lady walks ahead. The lady chooses. A gentleman will let her through the door first, walk behind her, and let her order first. It does not mean she's leading. You should get used to walking ahead a lot. The guy choosing where to sit and walking in front is treating her like a child not a lady. I think this guy was just polite but not interested. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Lol basil. I suppose attraction is in the eye of the beholder. It's visually attractive. But painful to the undercarriage. Link to post Share on other sites
guest569 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Yeah I don't get it. Panera is ok if you're on the road and want a soup or sanga after getting a few groceries from Walmart. But it's not somewhere you go for a date. How unromantic. People are being a bit unfair here, I can see from these examples that the guy aint going to take the lead in any way whatsoever. That is hard work for morten. He sounds like a dud. Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I agree with you username1. The term is a horrible, shaming thing. Problem is that it seems to be other men who drive this alpha/beta stuff. Mostly from the dating gurus I suspect. The first port of call is having men stop using the terms and then making it clear that they won't accept the term used by women either. Women did a lot of this with the S word to describe a woman who's had a few sexual partners. First we had to stop calling each other derogatory terms. Then we made it clear that it's not OK for men to say it either. We're not 100% there, but things are a lot better than when I was a girl. It's about leading by example. And making use of the term a dealbreaker. You’re probably right re: PUA circles, but imo in a more mainstream place like LS it seems to me it’s the women who refer to alphabet soup more often- either as a form of humble brag about their latest paramour because ‘Alpha’ is a shorthand way of conveying that they have bagged a leader of men (and doing so may elevate our perception of them if they can bag an ‘alpha’) whilst ‘beta’ is used by women (as in this thread) as shorthand to shame a man who disgusts them with *their perception* of his weakness. I doubt it will ever be seen as objectifying/shaming in the wider sense, but it’s nice to see people pick up on how harmful it can be when a lot of talk has taken place in the recent ‘mental health awareness’ week about the effect that male stereotypes have on men’s mental health. Good stuff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Redhead14 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 No never. He's active on Facebook but he has never reached out. Next. So, here's what could be going on here: You both are playing "chicken". He's wondering if you liked him enough and thinking you would have at least acknowledged and gave a little encouragement and you're doing the same thing. Your logic is skewed. Yeah, you should let the man lead in the very beginning for a bit, but there isn't anything wrong with giving him some sign to start the "fire" so to speak. Especially in these cases of first meet from OLD. If you give him a sign and he doesn't act on it, that's his problem. But I don't see how he would be getting at least a good vibe if you were focusing on minutia. I hope he wasn't focused on the poppy seed stuck between your teeth . . . Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Lol. You guys are cracking me up... As a Canadian who doesn’t have a local Panera bread,...) go to tim hortons Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 go to tim hortons That we do... Link to post Share on other sites
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