Argh!!!! I asked her to date others but now I feel funny about it

[Swamp]

I had a crush on a bar tender. I pursued her. She kept me at arm's length. I finally was persistent, and distant enough to break a lot of barriers down. She brushed me off a lot of times when I asked her for dates, and finally after being positive and laid back, she decided to go with me.

 

This has been about 4 months of getting to know eachother, and taking it very slow. Just being friends and really having fun with eachother. I have only really pushed friendship, though I feel she has opened up to more from me, but definitely likes how we are going for the deep connection as friends, so the passionate love will be amazing. As opposed to just dating and not knowing eachother.

 

She spends the night, we kiss on the neck and lips, and snuggle. We have an absolute blast with eachother. Seriously, our friends say we are in rareform together. She looks at me like no other. We haven't slept together in a sexual sense, and I haven't really pressed for anything beyond tiny romantic kisses. I just feel rushing all of that stuff can taint such a beautiful thing. I also want to let her know that I respect her, her heart, and her boundaries.

 

Well, one night at dinner, I told her she should find a boyfriend or a guy to date. She asked, "why?" and I told her because it would help me understand her.

 

Well, a month or so has gone by, and I have definitely fallen for her a bit, though I keep it under wraps for the most part. The other night she told me she might call this guy who gave her his number. She also mentioned "because you say it will help you understand me." A few nights later I acted kind of distant at the bar we met at, and she told me later that she was having a lonely day. She kind of missed her ex, and was having a sad day. I decided to tell her that I don't feel lonely when I am around her, because I thought she was insinuating to me that I needed to tell her my feelings. It didn't seem to help.

 

 

LAST night, she told me she did call him, and they were going to go out tonight. It shook me a bit, I can't lie. But I went home and called her and told her I was excited for her. I asked her if it meant she wouldn't be sleeping at my house anymore, because she is going to maybe hang out with another guy. She asked, "Is that the rule?" I said no. She said "Then no, I will still stay with you." I also asked if this was going to help me understand her, and she said "You seem to think so."

 

Now...

 

I told her this as an interesting way of expressing that I don't want to possess her, and want to hang out with her because I am falling for her, and she is becoming a dear friend to me. I want to prove these things to her because I want to fall in love with her and have her fall in love with me in reciprocation. I also wanted her to be near another guy so she could measure how I treat, love and respect her against the way I pretty much figure another average guy will. The whole "if you love something, set it free," psychology.

 

I didn't know if she would actually go find another date, though. I have a huge knot in my stomach. This girl takes a long time to truly get to know someone, but I am still nervous as hell about her eloping with this guy tonight.

 

I asked for it, no doubt. And part of me thinks she may actually be going on this date because it could prove something to me and her. I think she really likes the idea of me being so determined to understand her.

 

Please give feedback.

 

Was this a dumb decision? Do you guys see my point in doing this? She is a very loyal and truthful person, but is she really doing this because I hinted she should?

 

I have been blinded by this a bit. I need clear perspective. Please remind me of how to properly make this work to my advantage. I will marry this girl eventually, and I think over time she would agree. But this is a delicate, impressionable part of our friendship.

 

Please, lay it on me.

[alphamale]

why do you think you can have a romantic relationship with her by becoming friends? you are already in the dreaded "friend zone" and you most likely will not get out....

 

this woman is not interested in you romantically. look for one that is

[Swamp]

Oh boy.

 

Are you kidding? People still think like you?

 

Brother, the "Friend Zone" is the only way to find real love most of the time. I'm the one who put her in the "Friend Zone" if anything. I mean no offense, but I really don't think you understand how the heart and mind work.

 

Women want to feel understood. They want to feel like they can trust you. They want you to love them when they are unlovable, and they want to love you when you are unlovable.

 

Respect doesn't come from meeting someone and launching right into it.

 

C'mon Alpha Male. The Friend Zone is the BEST PLACE TO BE.

[d'Arthez]

Women want to feel understood. They want to feel like they can trust you. They want you to love them when they are unlovable, and they want to love you when you are unlovable.

Of course women want to be understood. But when you are saying that she should date other guys in order for you to get to know her ... , you are asking for emotional pain. How she read that statement is not hard to imagine, and it is not favorable for you.

 

Respect doesn't come from meeting someone and launching right into it.

Solid relationships don't come from contemplation alone. Contemplation is good, but even better it is to become more involved with her, and contemplate her, her actions and what not, in the time that you are alone.

[Aimée]

O holy sh*t!!!

 

Well, one night at dinner, I told her she should find a boyfriend or a guy to date. She asked, "why?" and I told her because it would help me understand her.

WHAT DID YOU DO????

 

Are you a saint or a martyr? And you think women are out for this??? There's a difference between being an understanding boyfriend and a self-sacrificing masochist. You're not going to impress this girl with your eternal love, because it's not love, it means you're just too afraid to go for what you really want. You let her make the decision, because you're afraid that you're not good enough for her, instead of standing up and saying, "Hey, I'm like this and I think I'm good enough for you." you want her to decide. That's not generous - that's just very insecure of you.

 

I will marry this girl eventually,

In your dreams, honey. In what parallel universe do you live???? I think you have some very far fetched ideas about relationships and you're building castles in the skies right now. Believe me, this overromanticized approach that you have been applying is not going to work.

 

Does anyone know this song "La media vuelta" by Luis Miguel? Fits like a glove to this situation, even though he didn't claim to be an "understanding" lover.

 

If you want to be understanding, then spend time with her and get to know her, listen to her dreams and hopes, what motivates her, what her interests are. There is no need for comparison if she is happy with you. If you tell her to go and look for someone else, you're in fact hurting her feelings. You're telling her indirectly that you don't care that much about her to let her go out with other guys. If she didn't ask for your permission to go out with other people, it's because she doesn't want to and urging her to do something that she doesn't want to and goes against her feelings will make her doubt your feelings towards her, because if she doesn't want to see anybody else because she likes you then she will wonder why you would want her to see someone else should you really have the same feelings for her. People often assume that same feelings will lead to same actions, that's often wrong, but that's how it is. And if you're not careful, you will make her believe that it is your personal wish to see other people that motivates your suggestion.

[LucreziaBorgia]

The Friend Zone is the BEST PLACE TO BE.

 

Actually, that's the place where "guys that I will not date or sleep with" get exiled to. I think that's the case for most women. You got the brush off several times to begin with, because she was not initially attracted to you. Chances are she still isn't. You were persistant, you make a good 'friend guy' (friend guys can be useful and good to keep around), so she tolerates you. 'Friend guys' can be useful to keep around in between boyfriends.

 

She saves the 'dating interest' for other men. She will continue to do this as well. When you gave her the green light on this, she was probably stoked - its pretty rare for a 'friend guy' to do this (and don't fool yourself into thinking that women don't know that all 'friend guys' are eaten alive with jealousy over other men).

 

As long as you keep it hassle free - she is going to be delighted to have a compliant friend guy around to use, while she gets to freely date who she likes. You know why she will continue to do this? Because it works 100% in her favor, and you imply that it works for you too. So, why would she change? You are gravely mistaken if you think she is going to magically decide that she is in love with you after all. If she were going to fall in love with you, she would have by now.

 

My question is: what are you going to do when she finds a guy that she not only likes like she likes you, but wants to sleep with and be his girlfriend? Will you truly be a friend and be happy for her? If she is out there dating, she is looking for this and it will happen eventually. Are you prepared for that?

 

Do not give her the impression that you are ok with this if you are not. That is grossly and disturbingly unfair to set someone free like that if all you intend to do is punish them in some way (through passive-aggressive martyrdom or other type behaviors) if they take advantage of it.

 

Women want to feel understood. They want to feel like they can trust you. They want you to love them when they are unlovable, and they want to love you when you are unlovable.

 

That's true. However, if you are in the 'friend zone' then she doesn't want this from you. She wants it from a guy who she is really attracted to, as well. Chances are, if she is attracted to this guy she is going out with your 'friendship' will end. Either that, or the next guy. At any rate, when she meets a guy that she clicks with like she does with you, AND she really wants to sleep with him, you will be history - or at the very least your 'friendship' won't be so close anymore.

 

Here's something to consider: A woman who is going to fall in love with you and is attracted to you will not even CONSIDER dating other people. She'll want to be with you all the time. Unfortunately, she is dating other people. She has been with you long enough to decide that she wants to date other people. Not a good sign.

 

I will marry this girl eventually, and I think over time she would agree.

 

Do yourself a favor and never, ever say this to her. The implications are pretty frightening.

[Aimée]

They're kissing and all this stuff. I'm not really the touchy-feely kind of girl when it comes to my guy friends, but isn't that too much even for a girl who doesn't some contact with her friends?

 

On the other hand, this:

She kind of missed her ex, and was having a sad day. I decided to tell her that I don't feel lonely when I am around her, because I thought she was insinuating to me that I needed to tell her my feelings. It didn't seem to help.

I'd say is a really good sign that she is not into him.

[Swamp]

I think I was misunderstood.

 

I told her this when we were just casual friends. I had a somewhat hidden crush on her, but she was just starting to warm up to me. Since the time I told her this -- she has warmed up to me a lot more, the kisses started, she has started to spend the night a lot, etc. I didn't tell her this during some fit of passion between us. The passion began AFTER I told her.

 

We just got off the phone and she said she feels strange about going on a date tonight. She hasn't really gone on a date with someone she didn't know for a long time, and she kind of said "I don't think I want to go out with people anymore." It was a slightly feeble way of hiding why she feels strange.

 

It's probably very strange that I am aquiescent to her going on this date. Which probably makes her wish I wasn't aquiescent. Which probably makes her wish I would grab her and kiss her with all of my heart. Which I am going to do. Tonight. After her date.

 

I wouldn't tell her to go on a date with some boy if we were already dating. I told her this when we weren't affectionate and warm to eachother yet.

 

Every guy she has ever fallen in love with was a friend first. The "friend guys" you speak of are those guys who open up their feelings, and acknowledge the fact that they want to be with, or pursue something significant with the girl. Girls, in turn, put them in the "friend zone" to keep them around, conveniently, until they find someone else. It's a very easy let down.

 

I haven't told her any ounce of my feelings for her. The whole "ex-boyfriend" thing was almost a missle launched at me in the vein of playing a game.

 

She is coming over tonight after her date. I am also going on a date tonight with someone, and told her about it.

[LucreziaBorgia]

What I don't understand is... if she let passion build between you why does she still want to go out on a date with this guy? Why would you go out on a date with someone else when you have already let passion build between you and someone else?

 

That whole 'dating other people' as some sort of manipulative trick is a very bad idea. Very bad.

[Swamp]

How do you figure a woman who wants to fall in love with a man wouldn't consider dating other people? There is a huge level of mystery and seduction when you create competition for the other person.

 

You guys seem so stuck on superficial, surface-level attraction.

 

This girl wants to be LOVED. Not drooled over. I want to LOVE her, not be infatuated with her.

 

A woman is a big giant picture painted on the wall. So many people fail to realize the only way you can truly see the entire picture is by taking a few steps back. You guys just want to smack your noses up infront of it. It's blurred.

 

If she finds a boyfriend in this guy, um, so what? I could sit and be her shoulder to cry on. Her foundation of strength. And an everlasting question of why the Hell she wasn't with me to begin with.

[Swamp]

What I don't understand is... if she let passion build between you why does she still want to go out on a date with this guy? Why would you go out on a date with someone else when you have already let passion build between you and someone else?

 

That whole 'dating other people' as some sort of manipulative trick is a very bad idea. Very bad.

 

I don't think she necessarily does want to go on the date with him. It wasn't a green light, per se. I suggested it. I'm pretty sure she is doing it because I told her it would help me understand her. Observing her interact with other guys of interest will help me know even more about her.

 

The "Friend Guys" you speak of are hilarious to me. Anyone in that position is inches away from having a wife. A girl who trusts a guy so much, yet has him at her disposal. A perfect level of aloofness mixed with a perfect level of unconditional love. Pssht. The girls would melt in these boys' hands.

 

I am not a "friend guy."

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't think she necessarily does want to go on the date with him. It wasn't a green light, per se. I suggested it. I'm pretty sure she is doing it because I told her it would help me understand her.

 

Um.. well, good luck with that.

[Swamp]

You people and your inability to understand the importance of mystery and game playing in the early stages of attraction.

[d'Arthez]

You people and your inability to understand the importance of mystery and game playing in the early stages of attraction.

I thought you were interested in creating a solid relationship with her. And not roleplay a monk in D&D-style, to the extreme.

[fusangite]

Swamp, don't come here to try and convince us of your bat**** loony views on relationships. People on this forum are here to give you advice. You can accept it or reject; what you can't do is convince us that you are ever going to be inside this woman.

 

Basically, you are addicted to romantic failure. When it looked like you might actually get somewhere, you told this woman to go and date other guys. She, quite correctly, realized that you are incapable of being a romantic partner to a woman, at least until you get your head screwed back on.

 

I personally doubt the internet and self-help books are going to work for you. Do you have an extended health plan at work? Is counselling available?

[fusangite]

You people and your inability to understand the importance of mystery and game playing in the early stages of attraction.

Your chronological definition of "early stage" is different from that of the other human beings. You might want to look into that.

[Swamp]

So a solid relationship can't be built when you are attractive to someone?

 

Games create attraction. Love = friendship + respect + passion.

 

You have to be solid, genuine, non-threatening, understanding, and honest to be a good friend.

 

You have to earn respect by being fearless. Being indifferent. Not being agreeable, or available all the time.

 

You create passion by sprinkling the friendship and respect with attraction.

 

I am sorry you think 4 months is too long to be considered the early stages of loving someone. Have you ever considered that to be your problem? Things going sour way before they have a chance to unfold? If so, I suggest you take a lot of time. 4 months is nothing.

 

A lot of people jump into relationships and get their hearts stomped on before 4 months even transpires. Hello? 120 days of knowing someone, and you think you are beyond the early stages?

[d'Arthez]

Games create attraction.

No. Games create complications, broken hearts, yearning for a person to appear at random places just to see his / her smile. Daydreams about spending time with said person in various ways. That is far from a healthy basis.

 

Love = friendship + respect + passion.

Love cannot be captured in mathematic equations. Especially simplistic formulas like these.

 

You have to be solid, genuine, non-threatening, understanding, and honest to be a good friend.

Eh, first of all, how could you be genuine and dishonest? But more importantly, non-threatening does not mean that you should have suggested that she goes out with other men - it is simply setting yourself up for hurt. And that is not being a good friend, but a masochistic one.

 

You have to earn respect by being fearless. Being indifferent. Not being agreeable, or available all the time.

No, you earn respect by being true to your self and your convictions. Being indifferent simply amounts to the direct opposite.

 

You create passion by sprinkling the friendship

You cannot create passion by sprinkling a friendship. The only thing that is certain, is that there exists a bit of chemistry between the two people involved. Whether it is beer-induced or real.

and respect with attraction.

Not at all. You earn respect by being true to your self and your convictions. I doubt you would earn respect from your male friends or female friends, by dressing up sexy.

 

Furthermore, in the first quote in this post, you stated that you have to play games to be respected. But then, then you are being dishonest / mysterious about your intentions and desires, and that clashes with your definition of being a good friend. Whether it is the genuine part, the honesty part, and / or the solid part.

Or do you expect "your future wife" (which is a frightening term, especially in the early stages) to be a mindreader?

[johan]

Alpha was right about looking for someone who is interested in a real relationship with you. If she doesn't want it by now, then you're just a bridge between where she was and where she's going. I doubt you'll marry her, but I'm sure you'll get an invitation to the wedding.

 

My thoughts on the friends/lover balance:

Would you take a bullet for the woman you love? Trying to just be friends with her equates to going around deliberately trying to get shot. You'd only do that if you had little regard for yourself.

 

When you know settling for less is the only way you'll be able to have anything at all with her, you'll have to hide your true feelings from her. You'll essentially be deceiving her. Total brutal honesty is your salvation. If the best she can come up with is what you've gotten, then you did your best, and you're done.

 

Next time remember this: friendship with women is never really an option. It's all or nothing if you're honest.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Games create attraction.

 

Ideally, attraction is already there and doesn't need to be 'created' through gameplaying.

[fusangite]

So a solid relationship can't be built when you are attractive to someone?

Where did you get that from anybody's posts?

Games create attraction. Love = friendship + respect + passion.

I want you to look at this pair of sentences and tell me there is no contradiction. Do you consider your game playing to be respectful? I sure don't. If you respected this woman, you would be honest, forthright and caring. Instead, you are being dishonest, evasive and emotionally indifferent and unavailable. How is that respect?

You have to be solid, genuine, non-threatening, understanding, and honest to be a good friend.

Are you being honest? No. You are constantly sending mixed signals to this woman as to whether you want to be her partner. Are you being non-threatening? I'm glad you've fooled her. I've acted like this in the past with women and, over time, they find this behaviour progressively creepier and creepier.

You have to earn respect by being fearless.

So, the fact that you are afraid to try and have sex with this woman? How does that fit in?

Being indifferent.

Indifference/detatchment is the very opposite of fearless; it is a behaviour bred in fear.

You create passion by sprinkling the friendship and respect with attraction.

Attraction is not something either person "puts in" to a friendship. Attraction is an outgrowth of an interaction between two people.

I am sorry you think 4 months is too long to be considered the early stages of loving someone. Have you ever considered that to be your problem?

No buddy. I used to have your problem. I used to sound a lot like you. I'm still a pretty fearful guy but at least I don't call my fear "respect" anymore.

Things going sour way before they have a chance to unfold? If so, I suggest you take a lot of time. 4 months is nothing.

Compared to what? How many successful relationships (that started after 1965) do you know of where, after four months, the two people had not had sex?

[Swamp]

You guys are so disillusioned it's not even funny.

 

Games are important in the beginning because the uncertainty someone has about how you feel about them, in turn stirs a subconcious bond to you. They value you you. People value things that are not easy to obtain. You don't build a relationship on lies, or anything. You just stir their emotions a bit. People turn hotter than ever for people they don't have under their thumbs. Making someone wait, and EARN you, is exactly why they will want to KEEP you.

 

All or nothing? Please. Say that to every woman you meet, and remain on this website pontificating broken hearts for the rest of your life.

 

Afraid to have sex? Absolutely not. I am a very confident lover, and salivate over the day that I initiate love making with her. But it's not the time right now. Holding off on sex is precisely what makes relationships last in the end. Waiting until it's an amazing experience, that you are sharing with a true friend, who you share jokes and feelings with. That's what making love is supposed to be.

 

Love can absolutely be broken down into a simple equation. It's a very simple psychological response. Nix the cosmos and poetic connections made in some 7th Heaven somewhere.

 

My favorite, hands down, is the idea that being fearless is the opposite of being indifferent. Do you understand that being indifferent to a woman takes a very large amount of fearlessness? Knowing that you have enough dignity to disagree with someone, or not be moved by their wants or gripes. Being indifferent creates respect. They view you as being unafraid to disagree and stand up for yourself.

 

I see why you all have thousands upon thousands of posts.

[d'Arthez]

If you are indifferent to women, you simple do not care if you ever sleep with one in the remainder of your lifetime. I must say, you seem to be well on your way to accomplish that.

[Kitteney]

You people and your inability to understand the importance of mystery and game playing in the early stages of attraction.

 

It appears that you have been playing a game, yet failed to communicate the rules to your potential partner.

 

You encourage her to seek out other people? You tell her you are happy she has a date with someone else? WTF???

 

Careful what you wish for Swamp. You just might get it.... Oh, wait, ummm... I'm too late for that bit of advice because I think your wish has already been granted.

[johan]

I think settling for friendship as a way to achieve more is a bad tactic. It isn't working out for you is it? How are your games working out? You're losing.

 

This all could be an interesting debate, except that you aren't open to anything anyone says that contradicts you. If you considered the value of what people are offering, then maybe you'd learn something. You're just turning this into an argument.

 

You posted because you had a question:

I asked for it, no doubt. And part of me thinks she may actually be going on this date because it could prove something to me and her. I think she really likes the idea of me being so determined to understand her.

She's going on this date because she wants to. If she wanted to be with you, she'd choose to be with you. If she's going to date someone else just to prove something, then keep in mind you're probably always going to have other guys to contend with. You did ask for it, and I think you're still asking for it. When she really falls for someone else, you'll be here posting your own stuff that some arrogant person can make fun of.