Doesn't Offer to Split Check

[alphamale]

Fmw, when a girl tells me she wants to pay her own way I instantly get defensive and feel she doesn't like me that much. When she lets me pay I become more confident that she likes me. Men have fragile egos, myself included...

[Kitty Tantrum]

Most of my single friends share my view. We probably wouldn't be friends with women who are looking for a "provider".

 

Well, that's rather telling. Assimilate or be shunned, eh?

[Els]

Kitty Tantrum, of course you have the right to choose any relationship dynamic you want. The problem is that you are imposing these dynamics on someone who has not consented to it.

 

 

 

I don't see how there can be any disadvantage in offering. If he wanted to pay for you, he'd insist, and then you'd know that he does agree to your preferred dynamic. If he didn't insist, then you'd know that you weren't compatible. Far better than putting him in the tight spot of the waitress looking expectantly at him while you pretend that you didn't see the bill, no? Even if he paid, you'd never know whether he did it because he wanted to pay, or just because he wanted to avoid making a scene and embarrassing everyone.

[Happy Lemming]

Fmw, when a girl tells me she wants to pay her own way I instantly get defensive and feel she doesn't like me that much. When she lets me pay I become more confident that she likes me. Men have fragile egos, myself included...

 

Similar to "alphamale", if I was (newly dating) a woman, and she insisted on paying her own way, I would also interpret that action, as she didn't like me. I wouldn't ask her out again.

 

If we had been dating 6 months to a year or so, I would be happily surprised if she picked up the check. I mean it never happened to me, but it would be a happy surprise.

 

Unlike "alphamale" my ego isn't all that fragile. I'm just a grizzled old rodent.

[littleblackheart]

It's just a respect thing, not a money thing or a tradition vs modernity thing to cover your share on date 1 with a perfect stranger.

 

It seems nonsensical to expect a guy who doesn't know you from Adam to 'provide' straight up just because. The guy should be afforded the same choice as you do from the off - he shouldn't be expected to pay even if he doesn't want to see you again, or if he wants more of an egalitarian relationship.

 

If he insists, that would be up to him entirely, whether he likes you or not, not because the sword of Damocles is hanging over his head.

Edited June 14, 2019 by littleblackheart

[Kitty Tantrum]

Imposing a dynamic on someone who has not consented... that kinda goes both ways. It's equally imposing to invite someone out with you and then expect them to pay their own way at the end without any prior discussion of expectations. It's a long-standing rule of thumb that the person inviting is the person who pays, dating or not. Hence my suggestion that these things should be discussed beforehand if it's going to be an issue for either party either way.

 

If I knew for whatever reason that I wouldn't have enough money to pay my way on a date, I would make that clear at the planning stage. Barring that, I'd show up prepared to pay but operating under the assumption that he would pay. Because, frankly, the men I'd be interested in are the ones who PREFER this.

 

There doesn't need to be any awkwardness. It's pretty easy to tell when a guy is into the traditional dynamic. These are the guys who take the check directly from the server and never allow that moment of ambiguity to happen. (Or, say, if you're going for a hike and hitting up the store for snacks on the way, these are the guys who physically take the items out of your hands and put them on the counter with their own.)

 

If he lets the check hit the table, that's a pretty good indication that he expects a contribution - and I don't play dumb or make him spell that out to me; it's a nonverbal "ask" that I'm perfectly capable of interpreting. I haven't been on a whole ton of dates, so I'm not working with a huge sample size, but I've never had a guy let the check land between us and then decline my contribution.

[PRW]

It used to be that whenever I went out on first dates or first meets even when for drinks only, the woman I met would at least offer to split the check or take out her credit card or purse. The part of the country where I live a few drinks do add up to a hefty check in most cases.

 

But in the last couple months, that's all changed and I don't know why.

It means they finally started listening to me.

 

On early dates, particularly simple dinner dates, I'm paying,...period. I invited them out, it is my responsibility to pay for it. There have been a few who relentlessly insisted to split the check and in most of their cases they never got a second date.

 

I share the cost with "friends", with "buddies",...not with romantic potentials. If I split the cost with you it means I have friend zoned you.

 

Later on if we are in an actual "relationship" then I will share the cost on date events that are more elaborate and expensive such as weekend events or similar since sharing the cost helps us afford to do a larger variety of events. But those early "dinner dates" when we first meet have a meaningful symbolism to them,...they are my responsibility and I am paying. Letting the woman split the cost ruins the meaning of them.

[alphamale]

the better looking she is the nicer restaurant I take her to on the 1st date...

[Ruby Slippers]

Similar to "alphamale", if I was (newly dating) a woman, and she insisted on paying her own way, I would also interpret that action, as she didn't like me. I wouldn't ask her out again.....

I still make a soft offer to be polite, and the man always reacts as though it's absurd that I would pay. That's why the offer is soft. I know the kind of man I like doesn't want me to think twice about it.

 

The best response ever was on date 2, when he said to my offer, "Don't worry about that. You don't ever have to worry about that with me." And I never did.

 

This was a man who started from nothing and worked his ass off to become totally self-made.

Edited June 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[littleblackheart]

Imposing a dynamic on someone who has not consented... that kinda goes both ways. It's equally imposing to invite someone out with you and then expect them to pay their own way at the end without any prior discussion of expectations.

 

For sure.

 

I don't really know how valid the 'whoever invites pays' rule works between strangers when the guy is expected to do the inviting anyway - it sounds a bit like a catch 22 in that scenario, but I guess if both men and women make it clear on their profiles that they are 'traditional' or 'modern', it kind of helps resolve the issue without awkwardness?

 

I don't personally have any strong views one way or the other, tbh (I don't date, much less date strangers) - as long as the 2 willing participants are respectful of each other and upfront straight away with their standards, it's really just a story of the 'connection' being there or not.

 

From observation, I see that people forgive a lot when mutual attraction and the potential for a relationship is there.

Edited June 15, 2019 by littleblackheart

[Happy Lemming]

I do remember one first date in particular, and it was a bit pricey.

 

It was a day date with a woman that just moved to the area. I purchased tickets (in advance) to this new Aquarium Building that had opened within the last year. I hadn't been yet, either.

 

So I picked her up, we went there. We saw all of the exhibits and even took this "class / presentation" on sharks. The handlers fed the sharks. It was very interesting. We had lunch in the aquarium building and continued the tour and saw all of the exhibits. We talked and talked and talked, and quite a bit of time passed

 

On the way back to her apartment, we passed my favorite Chinese Food Restaurant. I asked her if she liked Chinese and her eyes lit up with a "Oh, yes!!". This place wasn't too expensive and had great food, so we had dinner there.

 

When we got back to her apartment, we talked some more and time passed effortlessly. At some point, I told her that I should probably head for home. I gave her a nice kiss. She asked if she could walk me to my car, I said sure. When we got to my car, she kissed me again and told me it was the best date she had ever been on and she didn't want it to end. She invited me back in and we made love for hours. The next morning we showered and went at it again.

 

It felt good to shell out a few extra bucks and make this woman really feel special. It made me feel great to hear that "it was the best date she had ever been on" The sex was definitely a bonus.

 

I really don't think the date would have gone so well if I asked her to pitch in money or cheapened out with a coffee date. At the time, I had a good job and didn't mind paying for date.

 

We dated for a while and enjoyed each other until her company transferred her half way across the country.

 

I guess my point is it can be both fun and rewarding to spend some extra money to show a woman a good time. Its been many years and I still like knowing I had shown this particular woman "the best date she had ever been on"!!

[rightondude]

^^^

 

this is what it's all about right here

Edited June 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[alphamale]

nice story HL, with a "happy ending"

[Happy Lemming]

Nice pun... but we really did hit it off and were compatible. We enjoyed the time we had together until she was transferred.

Edited June 15, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Kitty Tantrum]

Here's another thought: I disagree with the idea that going dutch should be a given if the man is a stranger I'm meeting for the first time. I think it's even more important that he pay in this situation. He has no social credit/capital with me. Taking me out to do something nice that I wouldn't do on my own/for myself is like a quick and dirty way of bridging that gap.

 

For ME, I'm not likely to go on a date with a strange man in the first place. Every actual relationship I've been in has been with someone from one of my social circles - someone I've had ample time to get to know before it ever goes in a romantic direction. Shortest timeframe was with my fiancé, and we had lived in the same house for about three months. We never actually went on a date until we'd already been spending most nights together for a while.

 

That's the "no purchase necessary" sweepstakes option, kinda like having to take the time to send in a self-addressed stamped envelope with a request for free McDonald's monopoly pieces back in the day.

 

Taking me out on a date as a perfect stranger and then asking/expecting me to pay my own way at the end of the date is like going to McDonald's and ordering the fries just for the game pieces, and then saying you didn't like the fries and want your money back when you didn't win anything.

 

If you don't want to pay for the chance to win, you can send in the bloody envelopes.

[littleblackheart]

Here's another thought: I disagree with the idea that going dutch should be a given if the man is a stranger I'm meeting for the first time. I think it's even more important that he pay in this situation. He has no social credit/capital with me.

 

Nor do you with him...That mindset is a bit self-centred and disrespectful, imo.

 

If that's what the guy actually wants to do, that's another story; some do it to give the appearance of a 'gentleman' on first meet and let the act slip eventually so it's not a sign of anything anyway.

[Shining One]

The best response ever was on date 2, when he said to my offer, "Don't worry about that. You don't ever have to worry about that with me." And I never did.

The best response I ever heard from a woman was actually on this forum.

Bill comes in (because waiters usually assume it's one bill)

Me: How much do I owe you?

Him: It's ok I got it

Me: Thanks!

If I'm interested in seeing the guy again I'll usually add 'the next time can be on me'

[Kitty Tantrum]

Nor do you with him...That mindset is a bit self-centred and disrespectful, imo.

 

Remember, he's the one issuing the invitation in this hypothetical scenario. He's the one who wants something from me (my time and attention at the least). I'm the one being asked to give him a chance that I normally wouldn't, not the other way around.

 

And sure, he could just pretend to be a gentleman for a little while - and, hey, whatever. At least that way by the time I figure out he's actually a cad, I haven't thrown a bunch of my money away entertaining his act over several dates.

[Curiousroxy86]

The best response I ever heard from a woman was actually on this forum.

 

when he ask me out for the 3rd or 4th date I let him know its on me

[some_username1]

Remember, he's the one issuing the invitation in this hypothetical scenario. He's the one who wants something from me (my time and attention at the least). I'm the one being asked to give him a chance that I normally wouldn't, not the other way around.

 

And sure, he could just pretend to be a gentleman for a little while - and, hey, whatever. At least that way by the time I figure out he's actually a cad, I haven't thrown a bunch of my money away entertaining his act over several dates.

 

Hmm...with all due respect I wonder how many would actually turn up for the date if you explained to them in advance that you have that mindset?

 

I pay for dates but I certainly do not do so from the point of view that I am paying for someone's time and interest. Ugh, that whole thought makes me feel like I need a wash- it's like the mindset of a peasant. I can say in all seriousness (and I've had the compliments to prove it) that my company is just as sparkling, if not more so than any girl I've dated and a date with me is an equal enterprise- I just *may* pick up the tab at the end because I am feeling generous.

[littleblackheart]

Remember, he's the one issuing the invitation in this hypothetical scenario. He's the one who wants something from me (my time and attention at the least). I'm the one being asked to give him a chance that I normally wouldn't, not the other way around.

 

Ok but he too is offering his time and attention to you? How else are you going to actually meet up if he doesn't invite you? Does a woman with a 'traditional' mindset when it comes to courting issue invitations too to guys that she likes?

[FMW]

Clearly everyone has their own views on this (as in most things) so the trick is find someone who agrees with or at least can go along with how you want to deal with the paying issue. Just another level of compatibility.

 

I posted earlier mainly to make it clear not all women are expecting for the guy to pay. I don't want the men who have an issue with all the posts from women supporting the man should pay theme thinking ALL women are the same. I see plenty of posts from men who paint women as a monolith who have unfair expectations of men as far as paying goes. I don't like being lumped in with "all women".

[FMW]

Well, that's rather telling. Assimilate or be shunned, eh?

 

No - it's about someone's life view - I'm saying that those women probably have other views that would make us incompatible as friends.

[some_username1]

Clearly everyone has their own views on this (as in most things) so the trick is find someone who agrees with or at least can go along with how you want to deal with the paying issue. Just another level of compatibility.

 

I posted earlier mainly to make it clear not all women are expecting for the guy to pay. I don't want the men who have an issue with all the posts from women supporting the man should pay theme thinking ALL women are the same. I see plenty of posts from men who paint women as a monolith who have unfair expectations of men as far as paying goes. I don't like being lumped in with "all women".

 

I don't think that's something you need to be concerned about, there is no one size fits all approach, that is abundantly clear and people who are stupid enough to be bitter to women because they feel all woman are out for a free meal are probably not good dating material in general.

[littleblackheart]

Differences in 'life views' are totally fine when they are done in a respectful way; on a very first meet with someone you don't know from Adam, expecting them to behave a certain way is too much, imo. It's not the life view at all that's the problem, it's the mindset.

 

Imo, Prepare yourself to cover your part since you are not owed special treatment from a stranger, and be pleasantly surprised when the person you are on a date with is just so happens to share your life view, be it 'modern' or 'traditional' and take it from there (or not).