A short rant - dreamed about xMM

[Beentheretoooften]

Thanks, HadMeOverABarrel. Interesting what you say about endings/beginnings.

 

For dream #1 I was in the midst of the EA. Had full fledged limerence, couldn't stop thinking about her, crying, pretty much the whole nine yards.

 

For dream #2 I think it was about the time the limerence started slowly fading. Even though I would still see her at her work.

 

Dream #3 was recent, maybe 2 months ago. The A fully ended in early Jan.

 

I never posted my own thread because when I started here the A had already been over for months. However, it's summarized in one of Darkbloom's threads:

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/680238-down-rabbit-hole-2.html#post7762956

 

Hi Mark. I just read your story in the thread not started by you. I think there is a misconception out there about MM not caring. And maybe more than half the cases the MM can just go on like nothing happened. Maybe most MM, start out with those intentions...of not caring or falling. But believe me, it happens, it can be just as hard too. The feelings while in the ea or pa are real. It’s only after you can sort through it. But the pain is there for MM, probably more than anyone realizes, and it stinks.

[LIRR88]

When the A was active I had insomnia, I would stay up thinking about MM and I’d dream of him quite often. Back in February, a few nights after we broke up, I had the most vivid dream that I had gotten up in the morning, checked my phone and he had emailed me “I miss you”, in that instant I woke up and my heart was beating so fast, I started crying because it felt so real and it overwhelmed me. Although I’ve been really depressed about it these days because he’s playing the hot/cold game with me, I’m glad I’m actually sleeping through the night again.

[mark clemson]

@beentheretoooften - yes, during the time the A lasted (and for a while after) I definitely had very strong feelings for her. But yes, it didn't matter in the end...

 

@LIRR88 - sorry to hear that. Hope you are able to process things and start to feel better soon. It does take time and did for me as well...

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Hi Mark. Thank you for adding this. It makes things more clear. I will do a more in depth response after thinking it over and I have more time. Meanwhile, care to share an overview of your relationship with your wife during EA and now? Also was your AP attached to a SO? I genuinely want to assist.

 

I know another person in your circumstances who got involved with his AP during a rough patch in his marriage. Eventually he has mostly grieved the loss of his AP and now his relationship is better with wife than its been in many years. There was no Dday, but he learned and grew from his experiences, which helped him relate better to his wife, and she in turn also began giving him more of what he needed. He reports he's pretty happy and fulfilled in his marriage now.

Edited June 28, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel

[elaine567]

But the pain is there for MM, probably more than anyone realizes, and it stinks.

 

The pain is there for YOU.

n=1

 

Seems to me the forum is full of people both men and women, young and old, married and single - all hurt, all upset, all grieving for loves lost...

Everyday, literally, OWs and MWs in affairs, broken-hearted, sharing their pain.

BUT as for MM - very, very rarely do we get a MM, grieving for his OW...

[HadMeOverABarrel]

The pain is there for YOU.

n=1

 

Seems to me the forum is full of people both men and women, young and old, married and single - all hurt, all upset, all grieving for loves lost...

Everyday, literally, OWs and MWs in affairs, broken-hearted, sharing their pain.

BUT as for MM - very, very rarely do we get a MM, grieving for his OW...

 

Elaine, do you think is because they fear being attacked or villianized, especially after reading posts by BS and OW?

 

For those MM who braved their own thread, I've seen some pretty harsh criticisms by BS especially...enough to make them run away from posting. And whoa to the MM who says he misses or truly loved his OW on the infidelity forum. He would be skinned alive.

 

We have all made mistakes. I appreciate the MM who post here because they are typically the ones who are in the category of caring but didn't make the 'most responsible' choices, and in that manner, could be grouped with OW. I feel qualified to say that as fOW.

 

In contrast are MM who would be more predatory and personality disordered. I would expect far fewer in this category to be posting on LS about their own grieving or hurting others.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Hi Mark. I just read your story in the thread not started by you. I think there is a misconception out there about MM not caring. And maybe more than half the cases the MM can just go on like nothing happened. Maybe most MM, start out with those intentions...of not caring or falling. But believe me, it happens, it can be just as hard too. The feelings while in the ea or pa are real. It’s only after you can sort through it. But the pain is there for MM, probably more than anyone realizes, and it stinks.

 

Welcome to LS. I hope you gain all you are looking for and benefit from sharing your own experiences. OW will appreciate your candid perspective as we often feel like castaways and abandoned after having invested so much of ourselves.

[elaine567]

The MM that have showed up tend to get welcomed with open arms due to their ability to give an alternative viewpoint and some seem to even achieve "LS celebrity" status, so I am not sure why guys would be frightened of posting.

[Beentheretoooften]

Elaine, do you think is because they fear being attacked or villianized, especially after reading posts by BS and OW?

 

For those MM who braved their own thread, I've seen some pretty harsh criticisms by BS especially...enough to make them run away from posting. And whoa to the MM who says he misses or truly loved his OW on the infidelity forum. He would be skinned alive.

 

We have all made mistakes. I appreciate the MM who post here because they are typically the ones who are in the category of caring but didn't make the 'most responsible' choices, and in that manner, could be grouped with OW. I feel qualified to say that as fOW.

 

In contrast are MM who would be more predatory and personality disordered. I would expect far fewer in this category to be posting on LS about their own grieving or hurting others.

 

This was nice. My first few posts I thought I had received some comments that were not very nice. I can handle not nice, but I felt like they were borderline mean/hurtful on purpose. I almost stepped away, but then I got some very thought out responses from people who I thought actually cared how I felt. And those meant much more to me, than a few bad ones. I would actually love to post my story, but considering where I believe the comments will eventually go, I will pass. Perhaps another day. Those of you that are compassionate, which is what I have tried to be to others, my deepest thanks. TBH, I never thought I’d ever register and post, but here I am, it helps.

[Abetterme]

3 dreams about the EA/AP:

 

1st - I was in a room with a TV. It was showing romantic old B&W movies (ala Humphrey Bogart). Then a hissing voice says "It's not like they don't both die at the end of the movie."

 

2nd - I was in a very high treehouse with old friends from high school. We were playing russian roulette with a (loaded) pistol. Suddenly we realize it's dangerous and someone says "Yeah, get rid of it." So we toss it over the side.

 

Even though AP wasn't in these dreams, as soon as I woke up I knew they were about the EA.

 

The 3rd dream was just a couple of months ago. Both she and I are dead and buried. However, we are still somehow alive and even though we are separated by physical space we are somehow viciously fighting each other.

 

 

Feel free to give thoughts if you wish.

 

Mark - Very interesting, and also intense. It was good reading your second note on these relating to the timing and ending of the A relationship. They seem to literally be your subconscious saying “run”. I am glad you are feeling so much better about the reality of the EA and moving forward.

[Abetterme]

This was nice. My first few posts I thought I had received some comments that were not very nice. I can handle not nice, but I felt like they were borderline mean/hurtful on purpose. I almost stepped away, but then I got some very thought out responses from people who I thought actually cared how I felt. And those meant much more to me, than a few bad ones. I would actually love to post my story, but considering where I believe the comments will eventually go, I will pass. Perhaps another day. Those of you that are compassionate, which is what I have tried to be to others, my deepest thanks. TBH, I never thought I’d ever register and post, but here I am, it helps.

 

Hi Beenthere - Don’t mean to T/J from the group, but I just wanted to add to HMOB post. I will say when I read your first post I was disappointed by some of the responses, but I think I actually read it as if you were a MOW! I think that may have been some of the reason for the harshness. Many that post in this section want to really drive home the fact to us OW/MOW that it is all fake, a game, etc etc to get people out of the fantasy (I’m not saying it’s not, btw). I don’t necessarily agree with that approach, but I think people piled on because they need to continue the “he doesn’t care about you dialogue”. Share what you feel comfortable with. I hope this site does help you work through things as it as me and I’m sorry you’re hurting. All the best!

[mark clemson]

Hi Mark. Thank you for adding this. It makes things more clear. I will do a more in depth response after thinking it over and I have more time. Meanwhile, care to share an overview of your relationship with your wife during EA and now? Also was your AP attached to a SO? I genuinely want to assist.

 

 

Hiyas. Well, my wife has been busy with a career change and also caring for an aging parent. Also, esp. before and during the A, we had some ups and downs/rough patches. At one point a few years before the A, we went to MC and then she decided to end it. I did feel a lack of attention/prioritization from her esp. the year before the A, which I think may have been part of my "susceptibility" to AP. Intellectually I get it - she's got a lot on her plate and I"m not a shiny new stimulus to her after 22 years. But at some less rational emotional level I felt "neglected".

 

During the A I *think* she noticed the changes in me due to the limerence, but she never asked "is there someone else" or anything like that. So not sure exactly what she thought.

 

Post A she continues to be busy but our relationship is better. I would say overall we have a "decent" marriage but not a stellar one. I do admit that I have in the past and continue to flirt with women (although it's transitory and superficial - little emotional connection) on a regular basis. I think she is aware of this and perhaps it does bother her, but not enough to make her tell me off or similar. On my part, only once has it escalated to anything (the EA) so I'm not overly worried about doing it.

[mark clemson]

Ah, also AP had what I would call a "perma-fiancee" where they are together and she has an engagement ring but no wedding ring.

 

My wife and I did this for 11 years, so I "get" shacking up.

[elaine567]

I would actually love to post my story, but considering where I believe the comments will eventually go, I will pass. Perhaps another day.

Moderation will cull the nasty/mean stuff, but may not cull what may be considered fair "criticism".

[Naivewomen]

@beentheretooften and Mark,

I am your biggest cheerleader!! I know for sure the BS will not be a major fan!! However, please keep posting because you have no idea how a mans perspective that walked in the same shoes as there AP can help so many that are in distress!!!! I know not many BS's can understand because WE did make a rather stupid decision to betray our spouses but when you are in the thick of things you honestly feel very trapped!! For me the pain outweighed the pleasure but hopefully OW/OM can get out before tearing there heart apart or anyone else's. I never wanted to hurt anyone and YES my selfishness overpowered everyone but deep in my gut I always knew better!!

 

I still believe people cross your paths for a reason. I learned my lessons the hard way coukd it have been harder absolutely but I am grateful for the second chance. I am grateful families are not destroyed. My xMM is equally as grateful. More than one lesson learned. The power of phsyical and emotional connection is tempting and alluring once boundaries crossed it felt near impossible to sever.

[Turning point]

I had a very vivid dream early this morning .... I said nothing. Not even hello. Then, xMM said in his usual tone, "Hello [my name]." At that moment my eyes were wide open.

 

I believe dreams of this jarring sort are a wake-up call. (Pun intended) They pose the obvious questions we refuse to deal with while in waking denial.

 

Here's the thing, in your dream you hold the illusion of control - all kinds of drama and effort to capture this guy clandestinely. Yet, he knows you're there in the shadows and you're paralyzed (awakend) by the mere utterance of your name. The illusion evaporates just as quickly as you awake to reality.

 

You are not in control - you are the one being controlled. This dream is the answer to a question you have been long refusing to acknowledge.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

This was nice. My first few posts I thought I had received some comments that were not very nice. I can handle not nice, but I felt like they were borderline mean/hurtful on purpose. I almost stepped away, but then I got some very thought out responses from people who I thought actually cared how I felt. And those meant much more to me, than a few bad ones. I would actually love to post my story, but considering where I believe the comments will eventually go, I will pass. Perhaps another day. Those of you that are compassionate, which is what I have tried to be to others, my deepest thanks. TBH, I never thought I’d ever register and post, but here I am, it helps.

 

It's in giving that we receive. You're welcome to post on my thread. Glad that you had the courage to join in the discussion.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I believe dreams of this jarring sort are a wake-up call. (Pun intended) They pose the obvious questions we refuse to deal with while in waking denial.

 

Here's the thing, in your dream you hold the illusion of control - all kinds of drama and effort to capture this guy clandestinely. Yet, he knows you're there in the shadows and you're paralyzed (awakend) by the mere utterance of your name. The illusion evaporates just as quickly as you awake to reality.

 

You are not in control - you are the one being controlled. This dream is the answer to a question you have been long refusing to acknowledge.

 

Well, I must give you credit foryour thought-provoking post.. So many avenues to respond. I've decided on the academic debate avenue.

 

I will agree that dreams delve into the realm of the unconscious often forthe purpose of resolving unfinished business. But, how does my dream make any statement about or prove out what 'he' knows? Only he knows afterall. I don't pretend to know, but I have some good guesses based on my experiences with him over a 3.5-4 years span.

 

I'm well aware, and have been for years before ever meeting MM, that each of us has no control over anything or anyone beyond ourself. We can only hope to influence others through our own actions. I'll skip diving further into individuals' motives for now. Suffice it to say, IMO, the more one seeks to control others and their environment betrays the lack he/she feels within oneself. This is where a paradigm shift is useful regarding one's locus of control--is it external or internal?

 

In my case, xMM was ALWAYS seeking control over everything. That includes me, himself, his wife, EVERYTHING!

 

I would argue I'm not being controlled, nor have I allowed him to control me, for about 1.5 years. That is the time I changed the way I saw him, and became open to other men's advances. When we began speaking again, I had lost any expectations of a future with him. With that, he lost his control over me.

 

In fact., during this platonic phase I told him he should have slept with me while he had the chance. His response was "Duly noted." Indeed the dynamic had changed because I changed.

 

Now, your turn...what's your story and why are you here?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Mark, in light of all you have written here, it seems clear to me that your dreams were mirroring your experiences in real life.

 

It seems you are clearly committed to your wife. Your attraction to fOW was based on a gap in your marriage where you perceived some of your needs were not being met. Had circumstances been different, it's unlikely you would have developed an emotional attachment to fOW.

 

Where you stumbled was allowing attention from another woman fill that gap rather than to have an open, direct conversation with your wife perhaps? Or be more insistent that she be more available? Or somehow lighten her load in trade for getting more availability? What did you do or say when she stopped counseling? Why did she stop? You should ask her point blank if you don't already know.

 

In your first dream, you knew the inevitable time would come when this would end. In your second dream you were weighing the risks and decided it's not worth it. In your third dream, the A is over minus the residual emotion you are working through. See how these almost perfectly mirror your real life experiences at the respective times?

 

These are my opinions, for whatever they are worth to you. Hope they help.

Edited June 29, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel

[mark clemson]

Thanks, HadMeOverABarrel - it's interesting how your comments dovetail with what Abetterme was saying. Appreciate the input!

[Turning point]

But, how does my dream make any statement about or prove out what 'he' knows?

 

What he actually knows is not relevant. The dream is about the repressed knowledge you have (of him) and refuse to bring into consciousness. The truth will always find a way out of your subconscious and make itself known. Dreams are very typical manifestations of that. This type of jarring dream is usually a warning about red flags you have missed. It's past experience interpreting a present condition.

 

I'm well aware, and have been for years before ever meeting MM, that each of us has no control over anything or anyone beyond ourself....

 

In my case, xMM was ALWAYS seeking control over everything. That includes me, himself, his wife, EVERYTHING!

 

This is exactly what transpires in your dream - you venture out with a team of helpers to exercise some kind of control over OM, but it ends abruptly with a demonstration of his power over you.

 

I would argue I'm not being controlled, nor have I allowed him to control me, for about 1.5 years.

 

Yet, here we are. Maybe the dream is a rerun, a previous episode called up and evoked by a parallel interaction you've recently had with someone new. I can only read the dynamic as it occurs in your telling of the dream - where in your present circumstance it applies is something only you can decipher.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Turning point

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@Turning Point, in my dream the way he said Hello [my name] was similar to "Hello Clarice" in Silence of the Lambs. In my dream I was talked into the "recon mission," as in both my dream and in real life I don't intend to ever speak to him again. More on your response later...

[finna]

I mentioned a little bit about dreams on my main thread but would like to delve deeper here. When MM and I were “just friends” I began having dreams where we would be somewhere enjoying a siteseeing view or something and he would come up behind me and put his arms around me. Imagine my shock when this actually happened as part of our first physical encounter!

 

Once we were “together” I had a lot of erotic as well as comforting dreams where we were spending time cuddled up together- watching a game or movie, listening to music, or just talking. Many of these dreams were reflections of life or happened in subsequent meetings.

 

Now that we are in an undefined space - he broke it off but we continue to talk and see each other- at least so far- my dreams have been wonderful to have but painful to wake up to. Nearly every night I dream of him next to me with us peacefully wrapped up with my head on his shoulder in the way we usually sleep when we are together. That moment between sleeping and waking when it’s hard to tell what’s real is the worst- because as I gain consciousness I realize he is not there with me.

 

I don’t know what any of these dreams mean in terms of my subconscious. Much of what I have dreamed about MM has “come true” over the course of our relationship, but I know it’s unrealistic to think they predict the current future- as much as I would like them to.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Asaysno, reading your posts breaks my heart because I know your pain, and I know it's going to get worse and worse the longer you stay this course.

 

The only way to alleviate the pain is to cut ties and face that agony head on. It will feel more intense initially, but eventually you will get relief--much more relief than you get from the brief interludes you now share with MM.

 

Please get professional counseling. I don't think you realize the enormous damage you are doing to your psyche.

[finna]

Yes - the pain is definitely something I’m trying to go through rather than avoid - even in the LC state of things I’m trying to make it as real for myself as I can. I’ve been out of my country for five weeks and heading home soon, so I will have more opportunities to investigate my options for assistance.