I'm beginning to wonder if anything's changed?

[veronese]

For the first time in absolutely ages I asked my H some direct questions last night regarding his cell phone calls mainly because I felt we were slipping back into the old pattern of me being careful not to ask too many questions (for fear of him feeling interrogated) and him sharing scarcely any more details about his working day than he did in the past.

 

It started fairly amicably, well, politely should I say, and I took great care not to antagonise or attack him - I chose my words carefully, I paid attention to the tone of my voice, but nevertheless eventually bumped into some rocky ground.

 

He was agreeable when we talked about some male associates, but when we moved on to one female colleague in particular his mood rapidly deteriorated. I was asking about her because for the last 8 months or so and for legitimate reasons he has had almost daily contact with her by either phone or in person.

 

What's the problem I hear you ask? Well he only mentions her occassionally and never in a way that would suggest they are friendly to a certain degree. If I had such regular contact with a work mate I think I would be more informative about it. In fact, if I spoke to ANYONE almost every day (or saw them for good reasons), whether it was a friend (female), a neighbour or even my mother, not only would it come up in conversation quite often of my own volition but he would take it for granted that I would keep him updated.

 

For example, an old friend called me a while back (a female!) and I didn't tell him for a couple of weeks. His response? You didn't tell me XXXX phoned.So what's going on in her life then? He was visibly affronted about not knowing sooner.

 

Anyway, back to last nigh, he got completely arsey, defensive, agitated and annoyed, culminating in him asking me "what do you want me to say V?" then he went off in a huff to work two hours early!. I was so astonished I wasn't even riled by his outburst, just disappointed really.

 

Our problems stemmed from precisely this kind of pointless secrecy. I can't fathom how something so innocuous can create such emotion from him. He gets more emotional about these 'touchy' subjects than just about anything else I can think of. His manner and behaviour change so radically it's impossible not to be concerned by it.

 

Yeah yeah, I know red flags are waving everywhere!

 

But I don't think he's having an affair, just that he's still hiding stuff from me, whether it be necessary or not. And this is exactly the kind of bollocks that was at the root of our problems.

 

So there it is. What to do? I wonder what the bloody point is sometimes!

[Ladyjane14]

I'm beginning to wonder if anything's changed?

 

Yeah, I recognize that too. Since reconciling the marriage, I've noticed that whenever my husband and I are in disagreement.....I automatically go right to that thought, "has anything really changed?"

 

Currently, we are in a state of disagreement on one particular subject. So....I feel ya.

 

What I've noticed though, is that once the communications issue is solved regarding whatever disagreement we're having....we recover rather quickly.

 

Unfortunately, when it's MY turn to capitulate....we can't BOTH have it our way every time....I've noticed that this "thought" interferes with my recovery.

 

But perhaps that is the flaw in my thinking?.... Maybe we SHOULD both have it our own way every time? According to the Policy of Joint Agreement over at MB, which I'm very much in agreement with, btw., we should never do anything that our spouse can't enthusiatically agree with.

 

Hmmmmm..... Just thinking outloud, but I think you've solved my problem for me with your question.

 

Thanks!

 

(Wish I could have had more helpful input for your sitch though. )

[michelangelo]

That in his flawed way he is merely trying to avoid a third degree type of round of questioning about this co-worker.

 

So even though he has to stay in daily contact with her, he is trying hard to not have you worried about female contact by doing the one thing that will make you worry about infidelity--not mentioning her.

 

On the other hand, he very well could be having an affair with her.

 

Very hard to tell from just not mentioning her.

[sylviaguardian]

Veron,

 

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this again. I don't really know what to say. I would agree that sometimes not mentioning someone is a big red flag (was in my case, anyway). On the other hand your husband could have made the effort to maintain a distance from this person because of what happened in the past, so doesn't know her well.

 

i guess either way, the problem is the way that handles talking about it. It seems he has not quite grasped the idea that being open and up-front is essential for you to feel secure and as you say, it's the secrecy that's caused all the problems in the first place.

 

You need to talk again and tell how his reluctance to be open makes you feel. No wonder you feel nothing has changed! If you can't get through to him..I don't know..maybe marriage guidance is the way. You've done so well and come so far...he has to realise how much effort you've put in and start to put in some effort himself on that front.

 

Feel for ya hun!

 

Sylvia

[jonesgirly]

V,

 

Sometimes you just want to strangle men. It would be so EASY for them to just talk naturally about their daily lives with their wives, in an open and freely given manner. There would be no need for suspicion because talking about the "females" they encounter would be the same as talking about the "males."

 

Its like they are indignant at being questioned, even though THEY themselves have created this untrusting world due to their OWN actions in the past. They would just love to forget that whole thing now wouldn't they?

 

I do the same thing around my husband - carefully worded questions to avoid the big blowup, as if I have NO RIGHT to question his honesty

 

I wonder if they ever think what it is THEY should be doing to repair the biggest mess they could possibly make. Seems like our spouses have very short-term memories.

 

You know its bad enough that we are reduced to groveling, investigating, endless humiliating questions, etc., in order to make sense of their betrayal, but then they need to get DEFENSIVE! Makes no sense.

 

Half of my mind says............hmmm..........wonder why?

The other half says......................hmmm...........what an idiot.

 

Maybe you should point out to him that your problems in the past have indeed stemmed from this pointless secrecy. That it takes time to rebuild trust, and that for every two steps forward you take..........an outburst like his the other night causes you to stumble backwards five! Its not as though you're not trying - you spend the time and the thought on wording your questions so as not to get into a big blowup. Too bad he doesn't spend as much time thinking about his own behavior. Thats always my issue - why does the WS seem so quick to "get back to normal" when the BS spends HOURS each day for MONTHS afterward, trying to figure out what just happened?

 

I hope you can express your concerns to your husband in a way he will understand. That seems to be the "key" when dealing with people who are capable of such personal destruction. I hope you continue to monitor cellphone calls - seems like thats the new millenium way of "hooking up"!

[RecordProducer]

Veronese, if I recall, your husband has cheated on you in the past more than once. He also didn't invest much in the marriage while you did all the effort. You naturally don't trust him and feel frustrated because of his previous actions and lies. I think how you feel is normal. I wouldn't even be with a cheater and liar. It's like taking the sh*t out of your soup then continue to eat the soup. It's still sh*tty!

 

You either trust someone or you don't. If you don't then don't even think about whether he is unfaithful or not. Every time he meets a new woman you wonder if he is attracted to her. You need peace of mind. Either trust him or don't care what he does with other women. Everybody gets the treatment they deserve. Has he deserved to be trusted? Do you deserve to live in fear of another affair?

 

Perhaps you should have a serious discussion with him about trust and let him know that more lies or another affair will end the marriage once forever. You must be firm in your attitude and he must believe that you mean it. Then relax and trust him. But if you discover infidelity again, be prepared to either leave him or just accept the fact that he will always be a cheater and liar.

[sylviaguardian]

V,

 

Thats always my issue - why does the WS seem so quick to "get back to normal" when the BS spends HOURS each day for MONTHS afterward, trying to figure out what just happened?

"!

 

That's because the WS KNOWS what happened. They know whether it was a case of:

 

- they were so down that this person wrongly gave their life a little meaning when they should have been seeking it from their wife/husband

- they knew it was wrong but thought they were one of the 'players to whom the rules don't apply'

- they knew it was wrong but thought they'd never get caught

- they really can't stand the BS but don't want to admit it and leave their cosy set-up

 

etc etc

 

The BS will never know. Usually the reason is a mixture of all of the above and there is no way on earth that they are going to admit to anything except the first one. Would you? When the BS 'searches for a reason' it really means a reason that is acceptable to them. Usually there isn't one. That why it goes on an on...

 

Infidelity...don't you just love it!

[sylviaguardian]

Everybody gets the treatment they deserve. QUOTE]

 

RP,

 

It's a hard lesson of life that this is simply not the case. Often good people have bad things happen to them and bad people have good things happen to them. There is no divine justice. Until you accept that, you can never really be happy in life.

 

I am not sure about your analogy of the shi**y soup. Does that extend to every aspect of your life? If a friend lets you down do you dump them? Some of my friends have let me down and I've forgiven them. Why? Because they are human and usually when people let you down it's because they are thinking of themselves rather than thinking of you. It's not malicious. It's the same with affairs. If one of your children did something terrible would you disown them? Or would you be able to see past it to all the nice things about them?

[lilmoma1973]

Hey Veronese,

What is it with men when you ask them about their cell phones? Why should they get so defensive when asked about calls made if it is so innocent? I feel when people get defensive when question about something they got something to hide .. IF i notice this type of behavior i would be on my p's and q's of the wear abouts of your s/o...GOOD LUCK

[RecordProducer]

Sylvia, our feelings for our friends, children, and partners are different. No matter what my children do, my soup (my love for them) will never be sh*tty. I love them unconditionally.

 

As for friends, I have been hurt by them and continued to associate with them, but the sh*tty smell was always in my mouth. Not because I haven't forgiven them (I am actually very forgiving as I see other people's faults as their problems, not mine), but because they have continued to hurt me. And the reason was because I simply forgave them so they thought they could hurt me more.

 

Our love for our partners is not unconditional (you will not love your partner if he rapes your daughter or beats you, right?). How can you remember the good things if there is so much pain to remember and so little good? You can't just start the romance all over again when you know what you know about them. You can forgive some things, some you can't. But you should be honest to yourself as to how far you can go with the forgiveness.

 

Don't fool yourself that everything is great if your heart doesn't feel that way. How you will act should depend on how you feel. If the reasons for your feelings are legitimate, the sooner you face and deal with them the sooner they (the feelings) will be cured. It's better to tell yourself and your partner "I haven't forgiven you and I never will, you hurt me and it still hurts, but let's try to move on from here" than pretend that you have no negative feelings and the past doesn't influence your present. That's why pain from the past is relevant - because it interferes with every moment of our lives.

 

When you admit that you feel pain, you will find a way to remove it. It's an emotional "disease" that you need to take care of. Just like ignoring a medical diagnosis will not get you anywhere, you need to locate the reason for your feelings. You can't act as if nothing has happened. You can't order your mind to forget or forgive.

Often good people have bad things happen to them and bad people have good things happen to them.

I certainly didn't mean that Veronese has deserved to be cheated on. Quite the contrary, her husband doesn't deserve her trust anymore and she doesn't deserve to live in fear of another affair. She deserves peace of mind.

[sylviaguardian]

Don't fool yourself that everything is great if your heart doesn't feel that way. How you will act should depend on how you feel. If the reasons for your feelings are legitimate, the sooner you face and deal with them the sooner they (the feelings) will be cured. It's better to tell yourself and your partner "I haven't forgiven you and I never will, you hurt me and it still hurts, but let's try to move on from here" than pretend that you have no negative feelings and the past doesn't influence your present. That's why pain from the past is relevant - because it interferes with every moment of our lives.

 

I get what you are saying here and I think that this is true. There are some things that can't be forgiven and shouldn't be forgotten. But if we let the past interfere too much, it takes away the future, don't you think?

 

Syl

[RecordProducer]

There are some things that can't be forgiven and shouldn't be forgotten. But if we let the past interfere too much, it takes away the future, don't you think?

 

Syl

 

Oh, yes, Syl, it takes away the future. I could forgive my partner a lot of things, but not infidelity. I also couldn't forgive if he humiliated me, abused me emotionally, was not suportive when I needed him, lied to me or did something that caused objective damage to our future.

[veronese]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

LadyJane14

 

I've been mulling over this question on and off ever since it happened. Even with all the talking we've done and the ground we have covered in many ways, I have periodically spent an hour or two listing the problems we had before DD but which I didn't identify until after DD, then compare these issues with the way things are today. It never reads particularly well I confess! But like you, thesedays the blow ups between us are very swiftly calmed although are not necessarily resolved. Our warmth and affection returns naturally without needing an exhausting post mortem on the event.

 

Michaelangelo

 

I totally agree with you

 

 

jonesgirly

 

In the past I rarely asked direct, inquisitive questions about his movements or itenary away from me either at work or socially. Over the years he made it clear in a subtle yet firm manner, that my natural curiosity and interest in hearing his news was not appreciated - I subconsciously learned not to ask for specifics but to be satisfied with what he chose to tell me.

 

But because he has never been an animated, verbose character he actually told me very little about anything much - no matter what the subject matter. I asked questions in the way I always ask questions in a conversation, not with the intention of interrogating someone, only to convey my interest in what they might have to say.

 

Sadly my husband and I don't seem to have the same perception of what constitutes 'conversation'

 

With alarming regularity these conversations ended up with me resembling a possessive, suspicious wife and him taking the role of fed up husband once again being subjected to tedious questioning.

 

So I stopped......until DD that is. That was the day when I decided that if a wife can't ask her f***ing husband a single fckuing thing with fear of fkcing offending him, well tough fkcing titty mate!

 

I was becoming increasingly anxious and insecure. He was the only person able to allay my fears so I turned to him for support. I figured it was the logical thing to do under the circumstances, him loving me so much and all that

 

It was only when the questions started that I realized I had a problem...

 

Funny thing is he never had to ask me a damn thing about the things I had encountered in my day....I told him bloody everything even vaguely interesting without any prompting. I'd happily natter on for ages regailing him with anecdotal stories.

 

RP

 

I hear what you're saying but things aren't always so cut and dried. Yes he did have more than one 'friend' and they were long term. But I spent a long term trying to understand what his relationship was with them and my view about this totally changed.

 

He said that they although at times flirty and enjoyable, these friendships were platonic and non-sexual which was a hard for me to believe. It took a while but I eventually devised a cunning plan to get confirmation of this.

 

Personally I found it highly unlikely that sex hadn't occurred at sometime (if not all the time) but he was adamant it hadn't. Such a major doubt was not one I could continue living with.

 

Forgive me for bragging but I masterfully obtained the information I required with minimal disturbance but maximum results. A stroke of genius if I say so myself

 

RP. once I digested all the facts, researched the subject some more, read stories here on LS explaining all sides of the situation, I could see it for what is was. I absorbed the information and could see things more objectively, more rationally, in perspective.

 

Until I had done that it would obscure the issues I needed to address more urgently. Yes he had lied, yes he had cheated, yes he was a damn fool and a supreme wanker of a tosspot, BUT, put in context realistically, what he had done although disgraceful and shameful (etc. etc.) did not need to become and insurmountable, all consuming crime.

 

You said I should trust him or not care about what he does with other women? Well RP I don't entirely trust him, it's still early days, a 'work in progress'. If our marriage is going to last we can afford a bit of time to be patient.

 

But according to you I should trust him (naturally difficult), dump him (as you would), or be cool with the thought of him being with other women? I they my only three choices?

 

how do you suggest I do the third RP? Are you honestly suggesting I function like a zombie, void of emotion or feeling, indifferent to sharing my husband with other women? Indeed, does this scenario include him having to do the same?

 

It's not something I could ever consider let alone endure but as it's one of your three options I'd love to know how it's accomplished.

 

Have I got peace of mind? Not yet but it's much improved. I am prepared to leave him if it happens again but I have no way of knowing what the future will bring to me. I do know that whatever happens will be dependent on the situation at that time.

 

It's getting late - I must go.

 

Sylv

 

Hi babe, things are cool. How are things with you? I know I must seem like a pathetic wretch of a fool at times, but I can't do much about that when it's basically the truth. Wish I could claim to be more perfect but there aint a hope in hell of that ever happening!

 

Lilmoma1973

 

I'm keeping my eyes open, I know defensive behaviour usually happens for good reason. I also know now that my arse of a husband can act defensive even when he hasn't got anything to hide - he just can't help it.

 

Example: when he had a physio session once his behaviour when he came out and we drove home was guilty as hell (and incidentally resulted in us bickering and arguing about it). Why? Because he had to strip down to his briefs for the session. So bloody what? Why should I care? I didn't have a problem at all, until, that is, he behaved like he was hiding something by being irritable and edgey about it. Aaaagh!!!

 

 

Later guys... thanks for everything.

 

 

Veronese xxx

[sylviaguardian]

Over the years he made it clear in a subtle yet firm manner, that my natural curiosity and interest in hearing his news was not appreciated - I subconsciously learned not to ask for specifics but to be satisfied with what he chose to tell me.

 

I was becoming increasingly anxious and insecure. He was the only person able to allay my fears so I turned to him for support. I figured it was the logical thing to do under the circumstances, him loving me so much and all that

 

It was only when the questions started that I realized I had a problem...

 

Veron,

 

This all sounds so familiar. I hear this over and over again "I didn't tell you because I know what you're like..I knew how you'd react", "It's only a big thing because you're making it into a big thing", I wasn't going red until you started making it a bit deal.

The more I read about infidelity, the more I think it's all about control. The person who does it somehow has more power in the relationship than the betrayed one. Because it's under their control, they invest less and are able to invest elsewhere also but at the same time, can control that too.

 

When we are down, who do we run to? Yes, that's right the person who undermined you in the first place.

 

What your h seems to be doing at the moment is continuing to play mind games. Either he's in it and he's open and upfront or he's not. He seems to still want his cake and eat it. Do you think he is truly remorseful for what he's done. I've always admired you for being such a trooper, not wallowing in it and seeing the positive side of things. But part of me wonders whether that has made things a bit too easy for him?

 

Forgive me for bragging but I masterfully obtained the information I required with minimal disturbance but maximum results. A stroke of genius if I say so myself

Please tell us how you did this? I am burning with curiosity.

[Ladyjane14]

Sadly my husband and I don't seem to have the same perception of what constitutes 'conversation'

 

With alarming regularity these conversations ended up with me resembling a possessive, suspicious wife and him taking the role of fed up husband once again being subjected to tedious questioning.

 

I hear this over and over again "I didn't tell you because I know what you're like..I knew how you'd react", "It's only a big thing because you're making it into a big thing", I wasn't going red until you started making it a bit deal.

 

It sounds to me like neither of you is living in "every room of your husband's house".

 

Maybe if you printed off the Why Women Leave Men article at MB, and just handed it to him next time this subject came up. (????)

 

I've read alot of posts by men here at LS, and they often seem to want the same thing....to be in a state of true partnership, at the nucleus of the relationship rather than orbiting helplessly around their mate.....to be welcome in "every room" of their partner's "house".

 

I think this is possibly a very basic EN that is sometimes ignored to begin with, then escalates to something much worse when distrust and insecurity due to infidelity becomes present. Couple that with the wayward spouse's hypersensitivity to questioning, and it starts to absolutely snowball into repellant behavior. It becomes a recipe for disaster.

 

The 'need for conversation' is more important to some people than it is to others, and when it's REALLY important to you, but your partner ignores it..... Well, that's a pretty lonely feeling.

 

This could be a case of an already present unmet EN increasing in urgency due to circumstances. If so, there can be no true reconciliation until this EN is successfully met and resolved.

[sylviaguardian]

It sounds to me like neither of you is living in "every room of your husband's house".

 

 

Just to clarify: this is not my present circumstance. When I said I hear this all the time, I meant generally on LS. Just seems to me that there is a common pattern in the way the one having the EA (or PA) orchestrates the situation to keep parts of their life secret and makes the BS unsure and reluctant to ask questions.

[michelangelo]

Wife asks husband:

 

"How was your day?"

 

Man answers:

 

"Fine."

 

Husband asks wife:

 

"How was your day?"

 

wife answers:

 

"xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..."

[sylviaguardian]

Ha, ha, ha Generally, that is the case, it's true. However, conversations on loveshack seem to be more along the lines of the following:

 

BS: Why have you been calling this man\woman 237 times per day?

WS: What do you mean? He/she is just a friend.

BS: If he/she is just a friend, how come you didn't tell me about him/her?

WS: I KNEW how you'd react!!

 

Later...

 

BS: If he/she is just a friend what were you calling each other about?

WS: You know..just stuff..

BS: No, I don't know. What stuff?

WS: Well, just stuff and you know..oh I can't remember! (gets angry)

BS: So you call him/her 237 times per day and you can't remember what you talked about?

WS: You make it so difficult! All these accusations and questions!! I'll think about it and let you know when I have time to think!!

 

And so on and so forth. Yawn!!

[michelangelo]

Yeah, they need time to "clear their head" or is it to think up plausible (to them) reasons for all the calls that don't include cheating.

[jonesgirly]

hahahaha michaelangelo, I'm pretty sure I've seen that somewhere....

 

Sylviaguardian, I swear we are in the exact same boat, only you have been captaining yours a little longer. Your transcript of the typical conversation was almost EXACTLY like mine (with my husband regarding his EA):

 

ME: Did you know you called her 2,3,4,5 times a day?

HE: I had NO idea I called her that much!

ME: Did your finger maybe accidentally hit redial?

 

:laugh: :laugh:

 

ME: And what in the HEII did you talk about EVERY SINGLE DAY?

HE: Nothing, she just had work questions for me?

ME: Oh, and you would need to check often, just in case she needed

you?

HE: No, it wasn't like that. I don't know. We didn't talk about anything.

She asked me for my opinions and I liked that.

ME: So you called her many times each day to thank her?

 

and on and on and on.......making absolutely no sense....................

 

 

And Veronese - your comment about YOUR ability to talk freely and openly about "your day", never requiring any questioning by your husband - I'M EXACTLY THE SAME WAY! In fact, I've pointed this fact out to him when "dissecting" the current situation. It became blatantly obvious to both of us that his "friendship" (hahahahaha) with this girl was very much UNLIKE any working relationship either of us has had. I work with a lot of guys, and I reminded him of all the times I've told him exactly what we talk about, stupid things they do, etc., while he would only selectively talk about his day. AND HE NEVER MENTIONED THIS GIRL! Because he was not overly talkative, it didn't ring any bells for him to NOT talk about people, until after the discovery!

 

I STILL have to carefully express my "questions." And I absolutely resent this restriction after HIS violation on MY LIFE. It pi$$es me off to no end that he should continue to retain total control of "our" world by withholding whatever he damn well chooses. How unfair.

 

You are probably getting a little tired of not being able to do/ask/question what YOU need to do in order to heal. You are probably getting tired of not being able to expect full support from your husband. I can totally understand that feeling, although I'm not quite sure what comes next.......

[sugar-rae]

I have been cheated on, in a pretty shi**y way. I know what it feels like.

 

I have noticed several posters that have posted on this site who give advice and they've admitted, that they've never been cheated on nor have they cheated on their spouse/BF/GF. Well, whoopty do, Basil!

 

What gets on my nerves is WHY do these individuals come onto these forums and give advice when they have no idea of the pain, anger, anguish, humiliation that an affair can wreck on a person?!

 

We who have been cheated on come on here to talk with others about our situations and some Know-it-all posts replies like "if you don't trust him, dump him" or "trust him 100% or kick him out" or some thoughtless, dumba$$, tactless remarks like that.

 

I don't come on here to hear all nice fuzzy remarks of how wonderful it'll be in the future, but neither do I think that someone should come on here and just spout off with no previous experience, knowledge, SYMPATHY...get my point?

 

I won't name names because that's "tactless", but IMHO, those individuals who show no tact know 2 things, Jack and sh*t...

 

... and Jack just left!

[sugar-rae]

 

ME: Did you know you called her 2,3,4,5 times a day?

HE: I had NO idea I called her that much!

ME: Did your finger maybe accidentally hit redial?

 

:laugh: :laugh:

 

ME: And what in the HEII did you talk about EVERY SINGLE DAY?

HE: Nothing, she just had work questions for me?

ME: Oh, and you would need to check often, just in case she needed

you?

HE: No, it wasn't like that. I don't know. We didn't talk about anything.

She asked me for my opinions and I liked that.

ME: So you called her many times each day to thank her?

 

and on and on and on.......making absolutely no sense....................

 

 

I know the feeling! LMAO

My H's OW worked in the same placehe did. I asked him what they talked about when they were at her house (their rendevous spot). He said, "nothing much, work"

I said, "what about work?"

He said, "just stuff that happened during the work week" and added, "we didn't have much to talk about. I went there for a piece. if there was any talking, it was her talking about her family and how much they didn't get along."

I said, "oh, pretty much, you left me to go to her house and talk about pretty much what you talk with me about here at our home. Nice. real change of scenery."

[Barby]

I can't say I blame you for questioning rather or not things have changed.

 

What would w/out a doubt make me think something is up w/ this female co-worker is the fact that he is so open when discussing his male co-workers but the minute she's brought up......he gets angry. To me that seems like it could be an excuse in order to end the conversation...so not to have to endure questions about his relationship w/her. Maybe he's afraid he'll slip up or his face will reveal the truth?!?!

 

I don't know......but if it were me...and as in your case...my H had cheated previously...I'd seriously consider why he is acting the way he is. If he respected/loved you (not saying that he doesn't of course) but he should be willing to discuss things rationally in order to ease your dis-comfort/fears.

[sylviaguardian]

 

I have noticed several posters that have posted on this site who give advice and they've admitted, that they've never been cheated on nor have they cheated on their spouse/BF/GF. Well, whoopty do, Basil!

 

What gets on my nerves is WHY do these individuals come onto these forums and give advice when they have no idea of the pain, anger, anguish, humiliation that an affair can wreck on a person?!

 

We who have been cheated on come on here to talk with others about our situations and some Know-it-all posts replies like "if you don't trust him, dump him" or "trust him 100% or kick him out" or some thoughtless, dumba$$, tactless remarks like that.

QUOTE]

 

I totally agree with this. While parties unaffected by infidelity can, and often do give great advice, those people who mention in every single post that 'they wouldn't put up with any kind of affair' are slightly annoying to me too!

 

HELLO, you haven't been in that situation, therefore you don't know what you would do.

 

Amazing though it sounds.....I said that if anyone I ever went out with cheated on me, it would kill the relationship stone dead. Well, that was before I found out my h of many years and father of my children had been cheating on me.

 

The newsflash is that often the opinion we have of hypothetical situation can change once we're in that situation. Coming on a infidelity site and stating how you would NEVER put up with infidelity is like going on an abortion counselling site and trying to help whilst stating that you yourself would NEVER have an abortion. It's just pretty self-congratulatory and insensitive.

 

Rant over...I feel so much better now;)

Sorry Veron, for hijacking your thread.

[sugar-rae]

HELLO, you haven't been in that situation, therefore you don't know what you would do.

 

Amazing though it sounds.....I said that if anyone I ever went out with cheated on me, it would kill the relationship stone dead. Well, that was before I found out my h of many years and father of my children had been cheating on me.

 

The newsflash is that often the opinion we have of hypothetical situation can change once we're in that situation. Coming on a infidelity site and stating how you would NEVER put up with infidelity is like going on an abortion counselling site and trying to help whilst stating that you yourself would NEVER have an abortion. It's just pretty self-congratulatory and insensitive.

 

Rant over...I feel so much better now;)

Sorry Veron, for hijacking your thread.

 

I know what you mean. You get to know this person for so many years and it's hard to just up and quit. Yes, I know, the cheater did that so why can't I?

Sorry, I can't come up with a wonderfully reasonable answer other than, I love him and want to work it out, IF he's willing to dump the OW and come home and SERIOUSLY try and work out our problems. Oh, and never cheating again will help, of course.

 

Yes, I'm sorry for venting on Veronese's thread too. If I have anything more to say on this subject, I'll start one. Thank you for listening, SG.