Should I have a distant hope, and leave the door open a bit?

[Sunlight72]

~ 1 year relationship. It was long distance, and as I work in her city I always saw her there, she only came to my town once. We were engaged for about 3 months, then she got busy for a couple weeks, phone calls got a bit awkward for a week, she broke it off. Then came to see me for a weekend and bring my stuff back from her house. That was February this year.

 

I told her during the relationship when she floated the idea of splitting that I don't want to be friends if we split as I love her too much and it would only be harder for me. She was a bit struck by that, but said OK, and it was another 2 months before the end.

 

After the split, she calls and messages intermittently. We've met up in person in late February when we worked at an event together for 10 days. She invited me to lunch early in that event, and we went and made out. She asked me to lunch 2 or 3 other times then, lighter kissing due to public locations.

 

After that, not as often calls and messages (from her. I rarely initiate contact). I've had a pretty rough time giving up on hope. I've been seeing a couple relationship counselors (one in my town, one when I'm in her city for work), and an over-the-phone relationship coach. I'm doing better, and dating all over the place (1 to 4 dates a week usually), but kind of don't care, and everyone else feels flat. Still, I'm trying.

 

The coach suggested I just stop calling for 3 weeks, and work on forgetting hope, so I did. 2.5 weeks along, she called again. It was a really nice 30/40 minute conversation in the evening before bed. We flirted a bit, she said some sexually charged stuff which was fun, and a good bit of just personal chit chat. Asked what I've been up to, when I said I've talked to a real estate person about selling my house to move to my ex-fiancée's city, she perked up, and asked was I really thinking of moving there? I didn't read much into it just then. Later it struck me more clearly - one of the reasons she was unsure of our relationship earlier was that she didn't want me to move only 'for her', but she wanted me (in the past) to move there 'for myself'.

 

The other maybe significant thing is that I asked her a couple times what she'd been doing before she slightly shyly said she'd been on a big motorcycle ride (she and I both own bikes) down the Pacific Coast Highway with the guy she's been seeing for a couple of months, and had just gotten home late the night before she called me. I was bummed, as of course that would have been a great trip to take together, but OK, what ever. We both said it was nice to hear each other's voice & she asked if we could talk again soon.

 

I felt nice about her call, but heard that she's still with this other guy, so not really hopeful, but it was nice to talk to her and feel remembered.

 

Then, - the next day I get emails from both her and her (female) roommate who I'd become good friends with during the relationship. It was an invitation to a back yard party they're hosting the last weekend of July. I didn't reply, as I thought, why the hell do I want to come as a 'friend', 'ex', what ever, and watch her with her new guy? It set my head spinning a bit, and I was pretty bummed out then.

 

Talked with my coach, I said I didn't get it, why was my ex calling me the day after this epic, romantic road trip? Shouldn't she be feeling lovey-dovey about this guy?

 

My coach said it sounded to her like maybe something happened and they were coming unravelled or had split up. She suggested being in loose but friendly contact for a few weeks and see if I get any clearer impression.

 

In the two weeks since then, I've called once, messaged once, and she has called me a couple times and messaged a couple times. She has given several other signs of interest (such as cheerfully asking if I were in her city at the moment, and so on) and possibly that she is single, though I haven't asked directly again. But - she knew when I was in town, and did not ask to meet up. She does know that if we do meet up, I will be kissing her.

 

My questions for y'all are

- any reason for a bit of hope here?

- what do you make of the invitation to the party at the end of July?

 

I continue to date other women and keep busy with my life, which now includes an investor for a new business I am starting in the city where she lives, which I am doing for my own future.

 

- I figure she needs to ask to see me in person if she wants to and then I'll decide how it feels whether to meet or not (though of course as of now, I'd want to meet). Good plan?

 

- Any suggestions other than say hi once a week if she doesn't call first? I'm not in a hurry to get back together with her, but ultimately I still feel she is the one I could enjoy the good and the challenges of life with. If I thought some stronger signal from me were helpful, I would do it, but I think the idea of meeting up has to come from her. Right?

 

Just to mention - we had a passionate relationship. A friend told me that if she broke up once, she'll do it again. At this point I can't picture proposing to her again, but the year we had was possibly the best of my life, and I would gladly have another 6 months or more with her even if that was all the further it went. It would enrich my life more than 30 peaceful years.

 

Cold water sucks, but if you need to throw cold water on me, go ahead with that too.

 

Thanks,

Sunlight

Edited June 24, 2019 by Sunlight72

[FMW]

It certainly sounds like she doesn't want to let you go. And yes, the call the night after the big bike ride was telling - she's clearly not feeling bonded to this other guy.

 

I'm being lazy and not reading your other threads again - so depending on the reason(s) for your breakup, maybe take it slow and let her do most of the reaching out, see where it goes.

 

But your friend is right about the chances she'd break up with you again. You still love her so she has a great capacity to hurt you. Keep your eyes open.

[Sunlight72]

This post was plenty long, I didn't mean to send you to other threads, that's fine. Mmmm - hmmm, OK, thank you for the thought.

[Foxhall]

Yes still hope anyway!

 

you have the main fundamentals - sexual chemistry- get on well together, spark and so on,

 

not always easy to find this- so I would be thinking try and make the most of it when this compatibility is there,

 

not ideal she is putting you in competition really with the other guy and putting up the challenge in a sense can you prove a better option than the other chap,

 

this would perhaps annoy me to an extent if it was me, yet as the other poster says she is not especially bonded to him either,

 

ah yes hang in there another while, it might work out for you.

[ExpatInItaly]

Female perspective here, for what it's worth:

 

You are her Plan B. If things don't work out with her new guy, or if she's feeling bored or lonely and wants some attention, she comes to you. That's not a great position, as it means you are not her priority but simply an option.

 

The invitation to the party is so she can have a guy by her side for the night, should the new guy not be there.

 

She is not invested in reconciliation the way you are, in my opinion. My strong inkling is that once she meets a guy she is really into, the phone calls and messages from her will dry up.

 

I hope you're not paying this relationship coach too much. You are basically paying her to keep your hope alive; she will tell you what you want to hear so you keep lining her pockets.

[Sunlight72]

The relationship coach is mainly helping me keep my sanity on bad days as I move on, and giving some advice as I date around and so on. She's given me pretty straight forward advice on focusing on the rest of my life and dating and not putting much stock in hopes with my ex. I was thrown off by this recent series of phone calls from my ex, and we talked about what it might mean.

 

I'm not greatly optimistic that she will want to reconcile, but I also don't want to write her off completely if she does. I'm trying to determine a low-level balance of hope vs. "eff-it, leave me alone".

 

Thanks for the reality check ExpatInItaly. I've thought about the points you mention, and will keep them in my perspective.

[schlumpy]

Female perspective here, for what it's worth:

 

You are her Plan B. If things don't work out with her new guy, or if she's feeling bored or lonely and wants some attention, she comes to you. That's not a great position, as it means you are not her priority but simply an option.

 

The invitation to the party is so she can have a guy by her side for the night, should the new guy not be there.

 

She is not invested in reconciliation the way you are, in my opinion. My strong inkling is that once she meets a guy she is really into, the phone calls and messages from her will dry up.

 

I hope you're not paying this relationship coach too much. You are basically paying her to keep your hope alive; she will tell you what you want to hear so you keep lining her pockets.

 

Expat covered all the points I gathered from the OPs post and expressed them very well. I can only offer one other scenario but it doesn't offer much hope.

 

It could be that you are a person she feels very close too and would like to have you in her life but only as a friend. Your invitation to the party may have been to get your opinion of the new boyfriend.

 

Put a 100% of your focus on your dating and find someone who will excise your memory of your ex.

[Sunlight72]

An update.

I spoke with my ex for a good while today on the phone.

 

She sees the new guy as not as strong a candidate as I was, but she is moving him into her house when his lease runs out in 6 or 8 weeks, and he's started moving in some things now.

 

I'm glad we had the conversation, it was nice, over about an hour and a half.

 

She said the new guy has already expressed he's a bit nervous since she's gone through other men before him, and I said it's good he sees what's coming (she said, "ouch!"). I said that really her perfect mate is herself - she would like to marry herself, and that's why it won't last with any guy. She said, well of course, if it were possible, wouldn't I like to marry myself? I said, no, I want to be half of a connection and partnership. The other half is what makes the connection possible and interesting.

 

So, my heart is sad and we talked about some of the good things during our year together. Logically, I can see she is comfortable committing about 40% to a relationship, and I got her to about 80% for quite a while, so I know I showed up as a good man and did many things openly and with good energy. When I got her to about 85% into the relationship toward the end, that was her 'hard stop' and she freaked out (which she agreed with today) and found a way out.

 

Logically, I see not only I didn't blow it, but I actually did great and presented her a great option. It really is her. She really is not (at least at this time in her life) going to open up to a real, connected relationship, and she has the accountability for us splitting.

 

It sucks. It's a poor consolation that I did what I could, did it well, and few people (if any) would have gone so far or done so well. But, at least I know logically it wasn't me.

 

We both want to meet once or twice more, but I can't see how we would get back together, even after she ditches the new guy. And currently, I don't see myself being 'just friends' with her. Maybe in a few years, maybe never. It's a shame.

[ExpatInItaly]

We both want to meet once or twice more, but I can't see how we would get back together, even after she ditches the new guy. And currently, I don't see myself being 'just friends' with her. Maybe in a few years, maybe never. It's a shame.

 

What would be the point of this, really?

[elaine567]

Here, I always thought this girl was the luke-warm one.

She IMO was going to bail sooner or later.

You dragged her along until she decided it wasn't for her.

 

I guess she is a lot more serious about the new guy that she is telling you. SHE is moving him in to HER place...

 

Many women are capable of having flirty, friendly relations with an ex, especially an ex who wants her back and still loves her.

They can be friends all day and all night with such a guy but the thought of a reconciliation never seriously crosses her mind...

 

Time for you to move on for your own good.

[Marc878]

The message you are sending is I'm weak and am here to do whatever you want.

 

Heads up!!!! Unnattractive.

 

I think if you ever had a chance you blew it with your demeanor.

 

She's now moving the other guy in but playing you a little breadcrumb lip service which you lap up every single time.

 

You are your big problem. Attractiveness counts. Strength is a mindset. You should get some

[FMW]

Well now you know Sunlight, whatever she still feels for you she is moving forward with the other guy. I agree with the other poster that you shouldn't meet up any more, it's going to prolong your being stuck and trying to get over her.

 

You seem like a great guy, keep meeting other women and at some point you will meet someone you'll get excited about who can and will happily commit 100%.

[preraph]

I'm wondering if the new guy she's moving in with is not as serious and also not putting any pressure on her to commit and get serious and forge a committed relationship. I've seen lots of guys who loved it when women were "no strings, no pressure" but rarely the reverse. It always puzzled me why a guy would leave someone because they wanted no pressure/commitment only to spend a whole lot of time with someone who told them they didn't (but were really getting what they wanted by telling them that).

 

Maybe he reflects her comfort with commitment or domesticity. You know, it's hard to know.

 

I am very sorry you are going through this. You seem like a great guy. I just think she's maybe not the settling down type. Maybe in order to settle down, she has to fool herself into thinking that's not what's going on!

 

I think I'd pass on this party or event. Why put yourself through that? I'm glad you're dating. I hope you meet someone who captures your interest soon to end the suffering.

[Sunlight72]

...I guess she is a lot more serious about the new guy that she is telling you. SHE is moving him in to HER place...

Could be more serious or not, who knows. She said he is 'kind of' moving in. I 'kind of' moved in & out 3 times before the final split.

Many women are capable of having flirty, friendly relations with an ex, especially an ex who wants her back and still loves her.

They can be friends all day and all night with such a guy but the thought of a reconciliation never seriously crosses her mind...

Yep, that was clarified for me today.

[Sunlight72]

Refering to seeing each other one or two more times.

What would be the point of this, really?

Not everything is a strategy, and not every move is part of a game for me. I like seeing her. At this point I realize we are not getting back together, and yet, I like her and like seeing her.

 

I feel valued and remembered, and would like her to feel valued and remembered. She isn't my enemy. I could live without it, but it would be nice.

[Sunlight72]

Could be he's not as serious as I was preraph, yes. She pushed hard for committment with me, which I was comfortable with a few weeks after her timeline and so I committed when I was ready. But you know, now that she's seen what that's like, it's entirely possible she is going the opposite way with a guy who is not very serious. She said her aunt asked her about the guy, "why would you move in a guy that you're going to have to take care of?", and made a couple other comments to me about him that gave me a picture he's not very high speed. But, that's what she's choosing, at least this week.

 

Actually, I think "Maybe in order to settle down, she has to fool herself into thinking that's not what's going on!" is accurate.

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, and Finding My Way and Foxhall.

[ExpatInItaly]

Refering to seeing each other one or two more times.Not everything is a strategy, and not every move is part of a game for me. I like seeing her. At this point I realize we are not getting back together, and yet, I like her and like seeing her.

 

I feel valued and remembered, and would like her to feel valued and remembered. She isn't my enemy. I could live without it, but it would be nice.

 

OP, you are really looking to the wrong source for validation.

 

You are in denial if you are telling yourself this is just about feeling valued or remembered; you want the woman back. Meeting up with her keeps that faint hope alive. She knows it, too. That's why she uses you for attention when it serves her.

 

But eventually, when she either gets more serious about this guy or another one, those meet-ups will dry up and she will drift away from you. The phone calls and messages will stop. What are you going to do then? I think you are kidding yourself that you will understand and leave her alone for good. It's going to hurt like hell.

[elaine567]

It is human nature to put down the new love interest, to think they are "less than" us, to think our ex is crazy for dating such a person.

Our ego needs placated.

It kind of makes us feel better, to think they have moved on to something that is "worse".

But relationships are complicated. Some fresh out of a relationship are looking for something hotter and heavier, some are just looking for a bit of light relief, with all grades in between.

The new love interest is actually totally irrelevant, they do not matter. The new love interest may be objectively better or worse, but that is our ex's choice.

The main point IS that they HAVE a new love interest, the "quality" of that love interest is thus moot.

The bigger deal is that our ex for whatever reason did not want to continue dating/seeing/sleeping with us.

 

That is why you have to take that fully on board, and then move on.

No point in hankering after people who have rejected you, waste of your time.

[preraph]

Sunlight, you mentioned she'd have to take care of the guy? In what way?

 

Was she the caretaker in her own family in some way growing up? Like did she have alcoholic parents or unstable ones and this is something that is familiar to her? I've known guys who couldn't fall for a woman unless she "needed" him.

 

I just want to add, Sunlight, that I understand wanting to have some relationship rather than none. Mature people can often manage that, people who accept the situation and are able to move forward. I kept in touch with mine for a long time. I remember people would tell me back when I was in my late 20s that what I had wasn't really love because it was unconventional, but after decades, I look back and I see that I am a very niche person and that those people were so much like me and in that same niche in so many ways. Really, I think it would be nearly impossible to find anyone now that I had as much in common with as many people in that old crowd. We were a tribe of sorts. Even despite some very rocky traumatic roads with one of them, we were both relieved to reunite in the way of being friends. Lots went on after our brief dating, working together and all that, for a decade. We were on the same path careerwise but not family-wise. He and I both love having someone to talk about music with and just the old times because we shared so many of those when we worked together.

 

Just know that there will be periods of time you'll drift apart for one reason or another, and that's fine.

Edited June 27, 2019 by preraph

[Sunlight72]

Thanks Preraph. I am certainly not content to be just friends with my ex now, and not happy for her to have found a new guy. Maybe some year, I can't guess right now. I also think she and I understand each other naturally like few people do, and it sucks to walk away from a link like that in life.

 

In terms of her being a caretaker, she has had power of attorney over her Mother, Grandmother, Aunt, 2 uncles and a cousin since she turned 18. They are Russian, speak very little English, and she has navigated for them with government, landlords, cell phone company, etc, etc since she was about 12.

 

I had thought I could help her with this burden over time, as it weighs heavily on her, but she has a hard time trusting anyone with that.

 

Anyway, the new guy doesn't own a house and apparently doesn't earn enough to contribute to the mortgage at my ex's house & so on to the level the Aunt & Mom would like. It sounds like there's some other financial details they're unimpressed with as well, who knows.

 

But, you know, I think the real issue is that she is a serial monogamish woman. She only acknowledges it herself for a moment here or there, but really, she feels self-reliant for decision making, earning power and so on, and therefore doesn't see any need to compromise or ask help with decisions or responsibilities from someone else, and emotionally she gets itchy with real partnership or commitment.

 

She told me a couple times that she is very leery of people doing nice things for her or helping her out, as she is sure that they will then expect that she owes them something in return. This really bothers her. And I did a lot of helpful things for her.

 

Due to the words she told me, I thought that she had been finding the men she met to be lacking in sincerity, trustworthiness, or commitment. Now I think she really prefers to lead a life with one star (herself), and other side characters that come and go. I think that feels safe to her.

 

It is the pattern of her mother's life, so it would make sense in a way.

 

I didn't understand all of that until more recently. I was somewhat arrogant in that I thought she just hadn't had a man stick by her and appreciate her for the intelligent, capable, sometimes fragile person she is, and that by sticking through confusing or tough moments I could demonstrate to her that she could trust someone to be safe and loved.

 

She didn't have a father or siblings, never saw her mother have a relationship with a man, and watched her mother become attached to no one outside the immediate family - largely due to violence and extreme economic hardships in the Soviet Union before they immigrated, and then being socially and economically isolated once they got to the US.

 

Though she loves her mother, her mother has never made her feel safe or loved, as she's been pretty emotionally neglected and beat down alternatively by her Mom and her Aunt. She is well aware that she was born as a 'mistake'. Her Mom told her she wanted an abortion, but for some technical reason couldn't get one.

 

Now I'm thinking it's not that the men she meets eventually disappoint as much as she just is not the type of person to be tied down (despite telling me repeatedly that she wants marriage and a child or two, and so on).

 

I'm not a psychologist, and I don't know all the info, these are my impressions from what I observed and what she told me during our year together. It still sucks, but I don't see where I have a further part to play in that scene.

 

I had hoped love and patience would be a tonic, but that was probably self-aggrandizing on my part. Maybe she doesn't need a tonic in any event. She's doing great in life in a lot of ways. It's what I had to offer her more than anything else, but that doesn't mean it is what is most important to her. I think her freedom is more critical.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Sunlight72

[schlumpy]

In terms of her being a caretaker, she has had power of attorney over her Mother, Grandmother, Aunt, 2 uncles and a cousin since she turned 18.

 

I'm not a psychologist, and I don't know all the info, these are my impressions from what I observed and what she told me during our year together.

 

Good insight PreRaph.

 

Sunlight: Despite the excellent analysis of your relationship which was an interesting read, I don't see how it helps you and that's what you should be considering. She's already made her choice. Her intentions are clear. Any future contact will her will keep you from moving on emotionally. She may not want to accept favors but she does seem to want to keep you in storage.

Make a memory out of her.

 

Best Wishes

[Sunlight72]

Yea, I am seeing that too Schlumpy. #%#$@.

 

If anything, it helps me see that there wasn't something more I could have done - it's set in who she is, from way before I met her. Maybe recognizing it will help me watch actions and be more analytical about committing myself if I meet someone else in the future.

 

 

And - maybe someone can help me clarify - to be more respectful of other people's challenges. To let them have their challenges without feeling it's my place to help lighten them until after I see that they are invested in me to a similar degree. It seems cold and calculating to think like that... it has always seemed to me it's generous to offer support, and someone has to be the first to show the trust that giving is safe. Ugh.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Sunlight72

[preraph]

People who had to be caretakers when they were young kind of get hard wired that way. Those are the skills they developed and was their way of life they're familiar with, and to be honest she is very likely probably always going to choose someone who needs caretaking. He would think it would be a relief to have someone more equal or take care of her, but because of her past this is what is normal to her. This is what makes her feel familial and I guess secure in a way.

 

As far as her autonomy, she has learned to only rely on herself. What you said about her saying she sees no need to compromise, you could be talking about me. But she and I do not have the same upbringing. I didn't have to be caretaker until a little bit after I was grown. But I had a lot of autonomy as a child and I am of the same mindset as far as not seeing the point I'm trying to make something work when I'm fine on my own.

 

You may also be finding some cultural differences in her.

There are just people you can love but not be with. I just hope you meet someone else because you don't seem to have much time meeting and dating long-term, and that the next one is more on your same life path so that you can stay with them.

[Sunlight72]

People who had to be caretakers when they were young kind of get hard wired that way. Those are the skills they developed and was their way of life they're familiar with, and to be honest she is very likely probably always going to choose someone who needs caretaking. He would think it would be a relief to have someone more equal or take care of her, but because of her past this is what is normal to her. This is what makes her feel familial and I guess secure in a way.

Holy sh*t. Are you serious? Well, good lord, that.... ugh.

 

Yes, of course, and I had been listening to and reacting to her words - some of the guys she's been with before are guys she's had to take care of, and she's "never doing that again", and she "wants a man who is at least her equal because she doesn't want someone else to take care of" (in addition to her family).

 

I wondered why she sometimes mentioned worrying "what if (Sunlight) moves here, and then ends up without work and without your own social life, and I'll have to take care of you while you sit at home and play video games all day". But it didn't compute for me, because I don't ever play video games, and I have my own money and things to do.

 

So I heard her say this, and told her, and worked a bit to show her, that I don't need her to take care of me, and that I contribute to my own care and well being in daily things.... but I can really see the pattern in what you say PreRaph, and like with other things, I think she was saying one thing, but feeling the opposite.

 

She was logically saying what she "wanted" and "doesn't want", because logically it makes her life harder to have someone else to take care of. But, the more I gave her space toward the end (when she asked for space), and the more I demonstrated I was capable of being an independent adult, the more she felt I didn't fit into her life, and her work with me was complete, and I could fend for myself.

 

It did annoy me how toward the end she started mentioning things like, "maybe the reason we met is so I could help you get your business bigger", or "maybe the reason we met is so I could show you what a great and valuable guy you are", and clearly implying now we were nearing the end, since her work was done. I was like, "maybe the reason we met is so we can build a family together, what the hell are you talking about?". But, with your point of the caregiver dynamic, it makes sense that she was not really seeing how she fit in my life if I'm professing my ability to stand on my own and help her.

 

But if that is how she relates to the people she is closest to, then on top of other factors, I wasn't letting her play her favored role and parenting me or big-sistering me. Which, by the way, probably also doesn't work for her long-term anyway.

 

You know, I thought it was cool, but odd, that she is educated, sophisticated and ambitious, but her closest friends are people who are high-school dropouts, or some other misfit history, a bit of a mess financially, have kids they can't take care, and have drama regularly.

 

And during our time together, I did notice that two of her friends got into healthy relationships, and then she (and they) stopped chatting very often, stopped visiting each other very often. I figured it was because they were occupied with their new spouses, and I'm sure that's part of it, but she also slowed down communication. It kind of makes sense with what you say that when she didn't need to bail them out, she wasn't as comfortable relating to them any longer.

 

Huh.

 

Oh man. And one of her gigs is working for AARP, showing seniors how to work their smart phones, and running seminars on how to choose doctors, navigate insurance, how adult children can learn to care for their aging parents. Oh man. Sure. The dynamic of caregiver feels known and safe to her (even if it is sometimes a chore). That is one of her longest ongoing gigs. She keeps choosing to get signed on to that gig.

 

And her Mom really is dependent on her for every little thing. She visits her Mom usually 3 or 5 days a week, and is her Mom's liaison to the wider world. She gripes about it sometimes, but at 30 years old she still prefers her life to include this dynamic with her Mom, so she must be choosing it because it feels 'right' to her heart. I thought it was because she's seeking her mother's approval, and just because she loves her Mom, but it seems likely that it's also because she naturally feels comfortable being her Mom's companion/caretaker, and that's a pattern they've been building for 20 years now...

 

Oh my gosh. She commented several times how at the store, her Mom would put her brain on auto-pilot and prefer Na* to lead her around the store and pick things out, even though her Mom is a capable woman when she's on her own. It makes sense that that is a dynamic where Na* feels she fits in. ...and why she didn't want me to take on those responsibilities - on the one hand, it is her family and we were only together a year, but also, that is her place. Me offering to step in there was actually me butting in to her place in the family. Although she couldn't articulate it.

 

Oh geez. uuuf.

 

You know, that leads me to also wonder - I thought it was good for me to be predictable (another concern she said she had from other men, and family situations is the unpredictability, and their inability to stabilize their own lives).

 

But her life has never, ever been predictable. Before she met me, she had not lived in one residence longer than 6 or 8 months, often moving more than once a month. She bought her first house about 3 months before we met, and though it's a fantastic house at a surprisingly good value in a great neighborhood, she mentioned several times that she was thinking of selling it to get something different.

 

She did seem somewhat uncomfortable that I've had my career business for 20 years, own the house I've lived in for 12 years, etc., etc. Huh. Even though she said that she's looking for stability in a partner, it likely feels foreign to her.

 

Ohhhhhh.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Sunlight72

[Sunlight72]

Oh boy. And.... oh boy.